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#1021785 - 04/14/15 09:50 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Ray Settanta Online   content
Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 17807
Loc: New England, USA
Thanks for the links. Some good info there. I will bookmark them.
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#1021790 - 04/14/15 11:16 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
SkunkHunter Online   happy
Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 113353
Loc: The Show me State
When I find some good stuff I like to pass the information along. You can never have enough information. Well sometimes you can, but that isn't for this site. wink
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#1021826 - 04/15/15 08:39 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
SkunkHunter Online   happy
Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 113353
Loc: The Show me State
Interesting "Calculator" from Hornady.

http://www.hornady.com/hits/calculator
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#1021927 - 04/18/15 01:44 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
SkunkHunter Online   happy
Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 113353
Loc: The Show me State
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#1021928 - 04/18/15 01:54 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
SkunkHunter Online   happy
Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 113353
Loc: The Show me State
And here is a 10,000 round test using steel case and brass cased ammo with test results and charts.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
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#1022055 - 04/19/15 02:42 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
SkunkHunter Online   happy
Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 113353
Loc: The Show me State
Nothing like this has been posted here before that I know of, so folks were talking about it on another forum I read and thought someone here might find it useful.

This chart breaks down how many shells equal a pound for each caliber.

Interesting tidbits: AK-47 ammo weighs about 1 pound for every 27 rounds where as .22 ammo is 133 rounds per lb.
So basically you could carry 100 rounds of AK ammo which is around 3.6lbs or 500 rounds of .22 at 3.7 lbs. lol maybe the .22 survival gun enthusiasts are on to something.

Pistol Calibers

.380
Rounds per pound: 47.06
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.13

9mm Luger
Hornady 115gr JHP/XTP
Rounds per pound: 38.10
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.63

.38 Special
Rounds per pound: 34.78
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.88

.357Mag.
Remington UMC 125gr SJHP
Rounds per pound: 30.77
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 3.25

.357Mag.
Handload 158gr JHP
Rounds per pound: 28.07
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 3.56

40S&W
Rounds per pound: 28.07
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 3.56

.44magnum
200gr Hornady XTP HP
Rounds per pound: 22
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.57

.44magnum
240gr LSWC Bullet
Rounds per pound: 19.7
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.07

.45ACP
230gr Winchester Ball
Rounds per pound: 21.33
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.69

RifleCalibers

.22 LR
Remington Golden 36gr PHP
Rounds per pound: 133.33
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 0.75

.223/5.56X45
(milsurp) British Radway Green SS109 63gr
Rounds per pound: 37.21
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.69

30-30 Winchester (a.k.a. .30WCF)
Winchester Silvertip 170gr flat nose
Rounds per pound: 20.28
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.92

.243Whinchester
75gr Hornady V-max Handloads
Rounds per pound: 22.22
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.5

.308 Winchester
Remington UMC 150gr FMJ
Rounds per pound: 19.05
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.25

.308 Winchester
168gr BTHP Match Bullet
Rounds per pound: 18.67
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.35

7mm Remington Magnum
Winchester 175gr Power Point
Rounds per pound:14.68
Weight per 100 rounds(lbs):6.81

7.62X39
Wolf Steel Case 122gr FMJ
Rounds per pound:27.59
Weight per 100 rounds(lbs):3.63

Shotgun Calibers

12GA 2 3/4" Slug
Federal HI-Shok Slug
Rounds per pound: 10.53
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 9.50

12GA 2 3/4" #4 Shot
Remington Express 4BK
Rounds per pound: 9.30
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 10.75

12GA 2 3/4" #7 1/2 Shot
Federal #7 1/2 Shot
Rounds per pound: 10.53
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 9.75

12GA 2 3/4"00 Buckshot
Federal Express 9 Pellet
Rounds per pound: 9.76
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 10.25

12GA 3" Slug
Federal 3" Rifled Slug
Rounds per pound: 8.89
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 11.25


Edited by SkunkHunter (04/19/15 02:43 PM)
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#1022073 - 04/19/15 08:16 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 09/29/12
Posts: 7488
Loc: USSA
It would appear that the steel case "myth" is upheld in the lucky gunner test. The real issue with most steel cased is the Bi-metal bullets and some of the brands have low enough powder charges as to become unreliable.(Tula refuses to cycle my Adams arms mid length piston upper.) Yes if you are comfortable with changing your own barrels and you use inexpensive ones then steel ammo is just fine but when you add in the cost and inconvenience of bringing your rifle to a gun smith that argument kind of goes out the window as well. As always this is my not so humble opinion and your mileage may very.
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#1022138 - 04/20/15 11:34 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
SkunkHunter Online   happy
Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 113353
Loc: The Show me State
Well I got an answer from Federal about velocity increase of their 124 and 147 grain +P ammo from the 16.5 inch barrel of my CX4. They said probably 25-30 fps. I was expecting more considering the barrel length was about 11-12 inches longer than what they test from (4-5 inch barrels).
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#1022139 - 04/20/15 11:40 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
greaser Online   happy
Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 09/29/12
Posts: 7488
Loc: USSA
Yeah that seems unimpressive I guess that the powder they are using is a fast burner and is pretty much done after 5 inches. I wonder how fast you could push it with reloading.
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"dein Gott schickte mich zu zerstören"
"Sic semper evello mortem Tyrannis"
"Sometimes the chance of a zombie outbreak is the only reason I need to make many of my life's Decisions." General Delivery

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#1022153 - 04/21/15 03:31 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
AZMTHotDog Offline
Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 08/25/12
Posts: 1068
Loc: On the road to eMpTy.
Just a few thoughts on the topic:
I don't worry too much about the steel case stuff if it is shot in a gun designed for it or that is shot in normal usage. That LG test really only showed that if you take a torch to any metal pipe/barrel to rapidly heat it up to make it soft and then run any kind of reamer through it, the harder objects will obviously be more abrasive. The barrel wear is directly related to the overheated barrel from firing so many rounds so fast more than just the type of projectile going through it, but the powder/bullet type would play into it slightly. The old M60 machine guns had interchangeable barrels and special mitts to change them out with for that same reason, as shooting enough non tracer rounds to cherry a barrel could destroy it in a matter of minutes even though it was just lead bullets being used. If you didn't change it out and pushed the same barrel too hard for too long it could just meltdown and go limp so that it became a safety hazard to pull the trigger again. They don't make viagra for rifles, just guns. smile

In areas with lots of trees like where I live, I prefer 5.45x39mm for rifles as it is a long narrow fairly lightweight bullet that still penetrates wood and soft metals very well yet is still fairly cheap to stack deep. A 1080 round surplus tin is around 33 lbs, is fairly watertight prior to opening and can be opened with a Bussekin no problem. That caliber outperforms .223, .308, 7.62x39 and every pistol caliber I have tested for pine and fir penetration. 7.62x54r does the best out of everything I have tested, but it is a lot heavier ammo and rifle is required to shoot it. I suspect there may have been a lot of trees in Russia where/when these rounds were invented. 9mm ball penetrates the same wood the best out of 9,40,& 45.

357mag works very well as a pistol & carbine one caliber option out to about 125yds yet weighs a lot less than the 44mag option. I have a suspicion that if 357 had been around in the cowboy days where pistols and rifles shared ammo it would have been the most popular round.

22lr and 22mag are nice & lightweight, but for a survival round they are very susceptible to moisture turning them into duds which renders them very ineffective at the worst time. I enjoy them in good times and would use them as barter material when things go bad.
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