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#1021275 - 04/07/15 09:21 AM Ammo selection
SkunkHunter Online   happy
Junk Yard Dog

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Boy, am I behind the times. First time I've heard of this one.
Thought it might be nice to have a thread dedicated to ammo (handgun, rifle, shotgun) types and selections.
So here is an article I just read.

http://p2t2solutions.com/fbi-finally-decides-on-standard-service-rounds-for-its-use/
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#1021284 - 04/07/15 01:45 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
MonkeyBomb Offline
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No luck with the link.
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#1021285 - 04/07/15 02:05 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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#1021286 - 04/07/15 02:25 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
MonkeyBomb Offline
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I have no problem with modern ammo in any of the big 3 defensive rounds. 9mm, 40 or 45.

In all honesty the FBI doesn't know very much about Street level Law Enforcement.

Of all the agencies they are one of the least likely to be involved in a shooting.

That wasn't always the case. We learned a whole lot from the FBI shooting on 4/11/86 in Miami. A tragic and painful lesson though.
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#1021305 - 04/07/15 05:49 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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YUP, I agree MB. What they should have done is figure that departments have the most officer shootings and then question them about what went right and wrong and then make the determination. The Feds rely on intimidation and reputation mostly and don't really have to "Pull the trigger" as much as their "Studies" would tend to indicate. Just my 2c and I could VERY easily be wrong.
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#1021306 - 04/07/15 05:50 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: Ray Settanta]
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Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
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Originally Posted By: Ray Settanta


Pretty much what I linked to. I clicked on the link and it said that the server was under maintenance.
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#1021307 - 04/07/15 05:55 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
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And here is the accompanying article they mentioned.

Duty/Defense Carry Ammunition Selection
http://looserounds.com/2014/02/02/dutydefense-carry-ammunition-selection/
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#1021310 - 04/07/15 06:13 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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In a nut shell, here is the recommended ammo for Defensive carry.

The Rounds listed bellow in 9mm, .40 Cal and 45 ACP, have been tested extensively and/or meet your carry standard.

9mm

Barnes XPB 115gr HP (35515) such as loaded by Cor-Bon (DPX09115)
Winchester Partition Gold 124gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester PDX1 124 gr +P JHP (S9MMPDB)
Winchester PDX1 147 gr JHP (S9MMPDB1)
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Ranger Bonded 124 gr +P JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127gr JHP +P+ (RA9TA)
Winchester Ranger-T 147gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester Bonded 147gr JHP (RA9B/Q4364)
Speer Gold Dor 124gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 124gr JHP +P (53617)
Speer Gold Dot 147gr JHP (53619)
Remington Golden Saber 124 gr +P JHP bonded (GSB9MMD)
Remington Golden Saber 147gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Federal Tactical 124gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal Tactical 135gr JHP +P (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147gr JHP (P9HST2)
Federal HST 124gr JHP +P (P9HST3)

.40 S&W

Barnes all-copper bullets (140 & 155gr) loaded by: Cor-Bon (DPX40140)
Winchester Partition Gold 165gr JHP (RA401P)
Winchester PDX1 165 gr JHP (S40SWPDB)
Winchester PDX1 160 gr JHP (S40SWPDB1)
Winchester Ranger 165gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Ranger 180gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester Bonded 180gr JHP (Q4355)
Speer Gold Dot 155gr JHP (53961)
Speer Gold Dot 180gr JHP (53962)
Federal Tactical 165gr JHP (LE40T3)
Federal Tactical 180gr JHP (LE40T1)
Federal HST 180gr JHP (P40HST1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)

.45ACP

Barnes XPB/TAC-XP 185gr HP loaded by:
Cor-Bon (DPX45185)
Taurus (TCB45ACP185HP)

Winchester PDX1 230 gr JHP (S45SWPDb)
Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP +P (RA45TP)
Federal Tactical 230gr JHP (LE45T1)
Federal HST 230gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal HST 230gr JHP (P45HST2)
Speer Gold Dot 230gr JHP (23966)
Speer Gold Dot 230gr +P JHP (53969)
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#1021339 - 04/07/15 11:02 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Edited by SkunkHunter (04/07/15 11:26 PM)
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#1021340 - 04/07/15 11:34 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Federal 9mm hst ammo.

SPECIFICATIONS (124 GR/124 GR +P):

Velocity in Feet Per Second
Muzzle: 1150/1200
25: 1095/1136
50: 1049/1083
75: 1010/1039
100: 977/1002

Energy in Foot Pounds
Muzzle: 364/396
25: 330/355
50: 303/323
75: 281/297
100: 263/277


************************************************************
SPECIFICATIONS (147 GR/147 GR +P):

Velocity in Feet Per Second
Muzzle: 1000/1050
25: 976/1020
50: 953/994
75: 933/970
100: 914/949

Energy in Foot Pounds
Muzzle: 326/360
25: 311/340
50: 297/323
75: 284/307
100: 273/294

REMINGTON GOLDEN SABRE
9mm +P BJHP 124 384 1180

WINCHESTER RANGER T
9mm+P T-Series 127 441 1250


Edited by SkunkHunter (04/09/15 06:33 AM)
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#1021343 - 04/08/15 03:00 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
MonkeyBomb Offline
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Nothing wrong with Golden Sabres or Gold Dots. Both of those have served us very well in real life usage.
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#1021386 - 04/08/15 03:48 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Well I found out where I can get the Federal HST3 +P ammo for about 40 dollars more for 500. Now THAT is supposed to be a good round.


Edited by SkunkHunter (04/08/15 03:57 PM)
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#1021467 - 04/09/15 06:18 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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OK, I like 147gr 9mm +P ammo. BUT my concern is, will it have enough energy at possibly 100 yards (out of a 16 inch barrel) to actually work as designed. I feel that after reading the ballistics on the 124gr, they would preform, but I would rather have the 147 grainers. What say you dogs. (MOST of my shooting IF NEEDED, I feel very confidant would be no more than 50 yards, but who knows.

Now if we are talking strictly handguns, 25 yards would NORMALLY be the max with the Carbine taking over from there out or even being the PRIMARY.

This is, I believe a valid question no matter if you are talking 9mm, 40 or 45 with the lighter or heavier bullets.


Edited by SkunkHunter (04/09/15 06:20 AM)
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#1021471 - 04/09/15 07:04 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Found this for handgun ballistics all the way out to 100 yards!

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.handgun-ballistics.html
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#1021473 - 04/09/15 07:16 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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BUT the question still remains, what VELOCITY and FPE are required for reliable expansion and penetration at 50 and again 100 yards?
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#1021503 - 04/09/15 10:57 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Ray Settanta Online   content
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Registered: 04/03/13
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Here is a good ballistics calculater.

http://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics_calculator/
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#1021504 - 04/09/15 11:29 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
MonkeyBomb Offline
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A Pistol caliber carbine isn't a 100 yard gun. It will do in a pinch but that's not what it was made for.

Expansion or not, I'm not going to stand in front of anyone and dare them to shoot me with it wink
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#1021530 - 04/10/15 12:10 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Ray Settanta Online   content
Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 04/03/13
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Originally Posted By: SkunkHunter
BUT the question still remains, what VELOCITY and FPE are required for reliable expansion and penetration at 50 and again 100 yards?


I have spent several hours on this today. All I can come up with is that hollow points do not all expand uniformly. Different velocities are needed for different brands. But the consensus seems to be that about 1,080 fps is the minimum velocity needed to expand most bullets reliably. Ballistic tables or a ballistic calculator would be needed to see if a particular brand and bullet weight satisfies that requirement at the required distance.


Edited by Ray Settanta (04/10/15 12:11 AM)
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#1021534 - 04/10/15 01:50 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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MB and Ray, I agree, 100 yards is in my NON scientific opinion Is to far. BUT in a pinch... To me personally it will,even with the 16 inch barrel, be a 50 yard weapon at the most. That sounds about right for MOST encounters.
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#1021737 - 04/13/15 10:36 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Found this site and here are 4 HST ammo comparisons:

This is the home page.
http://www.le.vistaoutdoor.com/

Federal ammo page
http://www.le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammunition/federal/handgun/default.aspx

Here is the Speer LE ammo page
http://le.atk.com/ammunition/speer/handgun/default.aspx


Edited by SkunkHunter (04/13/15 09:22 PM)
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#1021785 - 04/14/15 09:50 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Ray Settanta Online   content
Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 17807
Loc: New England, USA
Thanks for the links. Some good info there. I will bookmark them.
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#1021790 - 04/14/15 11:16 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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When I find some good stuff I like to pass the information along. You can never have enough information. Well sometimes you can, but that isn't for this site. wink
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#1021826 - 04/15/15 08:39 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Interesting "Calculator" from Hornady.

http://www.hornady.com/hits/calculator
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#1021927 - 04/18/15 01:44 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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#1021928 - 04/18/15 01:54 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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And here is a 10,000 round test using steel case and brass cased ammo with test results and charts.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
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#1022055 - 04/19/15 02:42 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
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Nothing like this has been posted here before that I know of, so folks were talking about it on another forum I read and thought someone here might find it useful.

This chart breaks down how many shells equal a pound for each caliber.

Interesting tidbits: AK-47 ammo weighs about 1 pound for every 27 rounds where as .22 ammo is 133 rounds per lb.
So basically you could carry 100 rounds of AK ammo which is around 3.6lbs or 500 rounds of .22 at 3.7 lbs. lol maybe the .22 survival gun enthusiasts are on to something.

Pistol Calibers

.380
Rounds per pound: 47.06
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.13

9mm Luger
Hornady 115gr JHP/XTP
Rounds per pound: 38.10
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.63

.38 Special
Rounds per pound: 34.78
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.88

.357Mag.
Remington UMC 125gr SJHP
Rounds per pound: 30.77
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 3.25

.357Mag.
Handload 158gr JHP
Rounds per pound: 28.07
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 3.56

40S&W
Rounds per pound: 28.07
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 3.56

.44magnum
200gr Hornady XTP HP
Rounds per pound: 22
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.57

.44magnum
240gr LSWC Bullet
Rounds per pound: 19.7
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.07

.45ACP
230gr Winchester Ball
Rounds per pound: 21.33
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.69

RifleCalibers

.22 LR
Remington Golden 36gr PHP
Rounds per pound: 133.33
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 0.75

.223/5.56X45
(milsurp) British Radway Green SS109 63gr
Rounds per pound: 37.21
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.69

30-30 Winchester (a.k.a. .30WCF)
Winchester Silvertip 170gr flat nose
Rounds per pound: 20.28
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.92

.243Whinchester
75gr Hornady V-max Handloads
Rounds per pound: 22.22
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.5

.308 Winchester
Remington UMC 150gr FMJ
Rounds per pound: 19.05
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.25

.308 Winchester
168gr BTHP Match Bullet
Rounds per pound: 18.67
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.35

7mm Remington Magnum
Winchester 175gr Power Point
Rounds per pound:14.68
Weight per 100 rounds(lbs):6.81

7.62X39
Wolf Steel Case 122gr FMJ
Rounds per pound:27.59
Weight per 100 rounds(lbs):3.63

Shotgun Calibers

12GA 2 3/4" Slug
Federal HI-Shok Slug
Rounds per pound: 10.53
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 9.50

12GA 2 3/4" #4 Shot
Remington Express 4BK
Rounds per pound: 9.30
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 10.75

12GA 2 3/4" #7 1/2 Shot
Federal #7 1/2 Shot
Rounds per pound: 10.53
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 9.75

12GA 2 3/4"00 Buckshot
Federal Express 9 Pellet
Rounds per pound: 9.76
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 10.25

12GA 3" Slug
Federal 3" Rifled Slug
Rounds per pound: 8.89
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 11.25


Edited by SkunkHunter (04/19/15 02:43 PM)
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#1022073 - 04/19/15 08:16 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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It would appear that the steel case "myth" is upheld in the lucky gunner test. The real issue with most steel cased is the Bi-metal bullets and some of the brands have low enough powder charges as to become unreliable.(Tula refuses to cycle my Adams arms mid length piston upper.) Yes if you are comfortable with changing your own barrels and you use inexpensive ones then steel ammo is just fine but when you add in the cost and inconvenience of bringing your rifle to a gun smith that argument kind of goes out the window as well. As always this is my not so humble opinion and your mileage may very.
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#1022138 - 04/20/15 11:34 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Well I got an answer from Federal about velocity increase of their 124 and 147 grain +P ammo from the 16.5 inch barrel of my CX4. They said probably 25-30 fps. I was expecting more considering the barrel length was about 11-12 inches longer than what they test from (4-5 inch barrels).
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#1022139 - 04/20/15 11:40 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Yeah that seems unimpressive I guess that the powder they are using is a fast burner and is pretty much done after 5 inches. I wonder how fast you could push it with reloading.
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#1022153 - 04/21/15 03:31 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
AZMTHotDog Offline
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Just a few thoughts on the topic:
I don't worry too much about the steel case stuff if it is shot in a gun designed for it or that is shot in normal usage. That LG test really only showed that if you take a torch to any metal pipe/barrel to rapidly heat it up to make it soft and then run any kind of reamer through it, the harder objects will obviously be more abrasive. The barrel wear is directly related to the overheated barrel from firing so many rounds so fast more than just the type of projectile going through it, but the powder/bullet type would play into it slightly. The old M60 machine guns had interchangeable barrels and special mitts to change them out with for that same reason, as shooting enough non tracer rounds to cherry a barrel could destroy it in a matter of minutes even though it was just lead bullets being used. If you didn't change it out and pushed the same barrel too hard for too long it could just meltdown and go limp so that it became a safety hazard to pull the trigger again. They don't make viagra for rifles, just guns. smile

In areas with lots of trees like where I live, I prefer 5.45x39mm for rifles as it is a long narrow fairly lightweight bullet that still penetrates wood and soft metals very well yet is still fairly cheap to stack deep. A 1080 round surplus tin is around 33 lbs, is fairly watertight prior to opening and can be opened with a Bussekin no problem. That caliber outperforms .223, .308, 7.62x39 and every pistol caliber I have tested for pine and fir penetration. 7.62x54r does the best out of everything I have tested, but it is a lot heavier ammo and rifle is required to shoot it. I suspect there may have been a lot of trees in Russia where/when these rounds were invented. 9mm ball penetrates the same wood the best out of 9,40,& 45.

357mag works very well as a pistol & carbine one caliber option out to about 125yds yet weighs a lot less than the 44mag option. I have a suspicion that if 357 had been around in the cowboy days where pistols and rifles shared ammo it would have been the most popular round.

22lr and 22mag are nice & lightweight, but for a survival round they are very susceptible to moisture turning them into duds which renders them very ineffective at the worst time. I enjoy them in good times and would use them as barter material when things go bad.
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#1022197 - 04/22/15 12:02 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Nice Post AZMT.
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#1022234 - 04/23/15 04:19 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
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I am wanting to run Federal HST or Speer Gold dot ammo, 124gr +P. NOBODY has any for a Price I am willing to pay. I've been checking out the Golden Sabre again and the ballistics on it are about par with the others.
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#1022235 - 04/23/15 04:25 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
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Golden Saber GS9MMDD (Bonded) 124gr ammo

Caliber / WT(gr) / Bullet Style
9mm Luger / 124 gr. / Brass-Jacketed Hollow Point +P
Index IDI No. GSB9MMD

Velocity (ft/sec)
Muzzle 25 yds 50yds
1180 1131 1089

Energy (ft/lbs)
Muzzle 25 yds 50 yds
384 352 327

Mid-Range Trajectory
25 yds 50 yds
0.2 0.8


Edited by SkunkHunter (04/23/15 04:30 AM)
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#1022236 - 04/23/15 04:31 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
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Here is a comparison from Remington for the 124 grain standard and +P ammo.

Comparison
Model Golden Saber HPJ Golden Saber HPJ
Order No. 29420 29424
Avg Wt Case 14 14
Barrel Length 4" 4"
Caliber 9mm Luger 9mm Luger (+P)
Energy 100 255 287
Energy 50 293 327
Energy Muzz 349 384
Index GS9MMB GS9MMD
Mid 100 4.0" 3.8"
Mid 50 1.0" 0.8"
Model Golden Saber HPJ Golden Saber HPJ
Primer Number 1.5 1.5
Vel 100 963 1021
Vel 50 1031 1089
Vel Muzzle 1125 1180
Wt 124 124
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#1022249 - 04/23/15 06:25 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 113353
Loc: The Show me State
Just Popped a cap wink on 500 rounds of Federal's Zombie Preventative HST 124gr +P Medicine! Not bad for $230.00


Edited by SkunkHunter (04/23/15 06:41 AM)
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#1022255 - 04/23/15 08:05 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 113353
Loc: The Show me State
I found a place (thanks to TOM) that I had forgot about. It pays to have low friends in high places. No wait, that didn't come out right. Well you know what I mean. smile
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#1022369 - 04/25/15 01:42 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Well, my ammo of choice is still slated to be here on Tuesday. smile


I think this will work nicely in all my 9mms.

http://www.le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammunition/federal/handgun/details.aspx?id=675


Edited by SkunkHunter (04/25/15 01:44 AM)
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#1022558 - 04/29/15 10:05 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Got 10 of these 124 +P goodness yesterday!

whistle grin smile smirk


Edited by SkunkHunter (04/29/15 10:06 PM)
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#1022582 - 04/30/15 03:18 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
AZMTHotDog Offline
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Congratulations on a good score there! Those ought to punch some fancy holes in things not properly ventilated. smile
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#1022614 - 05/01/15 02:12 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Yeah they come highly recommended. AND they came in at a price that beat what I had found Golden Sabers for!
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#1022615 - 05/01/15 02:13 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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They will be supplying my Beretta CX4 and Keltec PF9 and My Sig P225 and my Glock 17 and... smile
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#1033158 - 10/05/15 02:02 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Just read a short blurb about this self defense ammo. Might prove valuable to do more research.

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/range-re...powerstrikeammo

Here's the manufacturers home page.
http://allegianceammunition.com/main_page.html




Edited by SkunkHunter (10/05/15 03:14 AM)
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#1033182 - 10/05/15 01:50 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Mastiff Offline
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WOW, that PowerStrike ammo looks.....interesting.
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#1042277 - 08/14/16 02:28 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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OK, here is the lo-down on the Skunks Stuff.

Well I use Federal 124gr HST3 9mm in my duty spoon and long handled spoon. I am thinking about the Ranger T 165gr for the 40 or maybe Hornady 165gr Critical Defense. By using different brands for different spoons there wouldn't be any confusion in picking the wrong one in the heat of the situation.

OK, WHICH ONE should I use in the 40 and why that ammo? I THINK I have made my choice but I am still open to good reasoning.
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#1042299 - 08/15/16 02:34 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Originally Posted By: SkunkHunter
I found a place (thanks to TOM) that I had forgot about. It pays to have low friends in high places. No wait, that didn't come out right. Well you know what I mean. smile



God will get you for that Randy! laugh laugh
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#1042448 - 08/20/16 02:51 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Something Y'all might find interesting.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

I have a whole list of ammo reviews if Y'all be interested. Just let me know and I can post them up here for Ya.
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#1042453 - 08/20/16 05:06 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Andy the Aussie Offline
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We are issued the Ranger 165 in .40 for both G22s and H&K UMPs.

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#1044414 - 10/02/16 06:53 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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I guess this might be the winner in the 45acp ballistics contest.

Caliber----Type----Weight----FPE----MV
45ACP......TFSP....90........828....2036

Man, that is one SMOKIN round! Oh, it's made by RBCD Ammunition Ballistics.

This is the handguns used that yielded the above results.
Wilson Combat Stealth 1911A1 - 45ACP
RIA Tactical VZ Grip 1911A1 - 45ACP
Springfield Loaded 1911A1 - 45ACP

** Here is the home page for all the information. http://www.ballistics101.com/



Edited by SkunkHunter (10/02/16 07:04 AM)
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#1044420 - 10/02/16 06:48 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Andy the Aussie Offline
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Speed only mate, 90gn out of a .45ACP Seems a waste for what you are going to carry it around in. The .45 tends to work because of the projectile weight and diameter, yes at those speeds there will be some shock value but I suspect it will lack penetration especially through padding.

In .45 it only makes sense (to me at least) to carry 185gn + projectile weight.

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#1044422 - 10/02/16 08:07 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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I agree with you Andy. That light of a bullet couldn't penetrate all that much. BUT I suspect it you have to have a round that wouldn't over penetrate this would be the one!

I've never shot 185gr in a 45. Lightest I've ever shot was some Cor-bon about 30 years ago. 200 grain "flying ashtrays! Had a hollow point so big you could put your cigarette out in it.
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#1044446 - 10/03/16 07:21 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Andy the Aussie Offline
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Those were the 200gn Speer projectile CorBon use to load. I still have both loose projectiles and some loaded CCI "Lawman" ammunition contain them.

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#1044450 - 10/03/16 07:48 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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I've still got a partial box of the CorBons.
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#1044780 - 10/15/16 04:37 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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IF You like Federal, here is a comparison of the top 5 "Duty" loads in 45acp. You can also go here and go back and pick another caliber. Sorry, you'll just have to copy and paste in the search bar, but it will take you there.

http://www.le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammunition/federal/handgun/compare.aspx?compare=553%2C574%2C573%2C571%2C572


Edited by SkunkHunter (10/15/16 04:39 AM)
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#1045381 - 11/06/16 01:52 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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OK what should it be.
Federal 230gr at 440fpe at 25 yards and 929fps or

Speer gold dot 200 at 474fpe at 25 yards and 1033fps

20 bucks difference in price. Would the added recoil be noticeable enough to be a hindrance in recovery.
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#1045386 - 11/06/16 04:03 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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FBI Penetration testing Interesting read on Federal and Speer ammo. You will need to know the Manufacturers load number for the particular load you want. It lists 9mm, 38/357, 40 and 45.

http://www.le.vistaoutdoor.com/wound_ballistics/load_comparison/load_comparison.aspx


Edited by SkunkHunter (11/06/16 04:07 AM)
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#1045387 - 11/06/16 04:15 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Looking over the above information for the two loads I was picking from, the Federal HST1 beat the Gold Dot 53969 in EVERY TEST except for penetration in a couple tests and of course Velocity. Based on the FBI tests, I did make the correct choice in the Federal P45HST1 ammo in 45acp. smile
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#1045388 - 11/06/16 04:18 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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So, in summation, the Federal Ammo brand made a clean sweep in my "GETTER DONE" choices. Federal all the way in 9mm, 40 and 45.
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#1045433 - 11/08/16 03:59 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Andy the Aussie Offline
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Federal has spent lots of $s on development of handgun ammunition over the years and it really has paid off.

I am guessing that now the FBI is swapping back to 9mm that it will be Federal feeding it !

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#1045442 - 11/09/16 03:12 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Quite possibly Andy. I know the third largest city in our area of the state has swapped from the 40 back to the 9mm. All in all, I'm still glad I got a good quality 40 in the Sig P239.
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#1045471 - 11/10/16 01:57 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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All I can say is WOW! I ordered some ammo from SGAmmo.com on Sunday morning around 3am. IT WAS SHIPPED and I got it on Wednesday the 9th! No, I didn't pay anything "Extra" for faster shipping. I guess they were working overtime to get out all the orders.

I've always got good service from these folks. Glad I stumbled across them a while back.
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#1047306 - 02/05/17 05:19 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Hey Greaser, this sounds like it should be right up your ally!

http://awm.com/experts-are-saying-new-bu...t=20170205_1150
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#1047311 - 02/05/17 06:00 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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I have been watching the lehigh defense stuff for a while now there are some really impressive displays on youtube of the penetrator, maximum expansion, and the controled chaos rounds. I knew when the all copper/brass bullets came out there was some amazing new ground about to be explored.
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#1047312 - 02/05/17 06:43 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
MonkeyBomb Offline
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I think solid copper rounds for a 45/70 would be pretty useful for large, dangerous game.

9mm? Not for my purposes. 9mm as a barrier round wouldn't be my first choice.

5.56 or 308 might produce interesting results.
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#1047313 - 02/05/17 06:52 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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The 45/70 and 458 socom stuff puts a big hurting on soft targets.
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#1047332 - 02/06/17 04:48 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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I was surprised when I tested 9mm FMJ (115 standard velocity) on normal weight concrete masonry units (most people call them "cinder blocks"). 9mm will destroy one easily (even from a short barreled handgun).

My range placed a ban on shooting some items so I can't duplicate the tests for posting on this forum, but suffice to say: I've tested quite a few rounds against a variety of barriers and was surprised by the penetration capabilities of virtually of of them.
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#1047333 - 02/06/17 04:58 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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CAVEAT:

I was shooting loose CMU. Had the blocks been assembled in a wall (especially a reinforced / grouted solid wall) I can safely say the results would have been different.
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#1047334 - 02/06/17 05:02 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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It would also of course depend upon where you hit the "Cinder Block". On one of the ends where the open cavity is or in the middle where the reinforcement rib is. But as Gary Arch said, it would also depend upon if they were freestanding or made into a wall.
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#1047335 - 02/06/17 06:56 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
MonkeyBomb Offline
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Regular 9mm will chew through a cinderblock wall pretty easily. Faster lighter bullets have more difficulty.

5.56 and 223 don't do as well as people think. It's fast and low weight. With the right ammo they don't go through drywall very well at all. That's one of the reasons it's become popular with TAC teams.

It's also a reason there are special barrier rounds when you really need some velocity on the other end of a barrier.
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#1050556 - 08/31/17 02:02 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Just went to my favorite ammo site and they don't have ANY of the big four (Remington, Winchester, Hornaday, Federal) 20ga rounds in stock. Wonder if folks are starting to stockpile again?


Edited by SkunkHunter (08/31/17 02:04 AM)
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#1050574 - 08/31/17 01:54 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Lord Mortdecai Online   content
Junk Yard Dog

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Originally Posted By: SkunkHunter
Just went to my favorite ammo site and they don't have ANY of the big four (Remington, Winchester, Hornaday, Federal) 20ga rounds in stock. Wonder if folks are starting to stockpile again?


I've not been following ammo, but have been selling a few guns. My gun sales have been picking up.

I attribute this to the time of year. There is always a lag in guns/ammo during the summer when lasses are in shorts and its too hot to be at the range. When the weather starts to change guys start to think about hunting season, fall at the range, etc.
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#1050757 - 09/03/17 04:24 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Hunting season is starting in most of the country, dove season is usually the opening of hunting season.

I've looked for 20 gauge shells and they are getting rarer to find now days. Most stores carry vary limited 20 gauge that I've seen and the 20 gauge is more expensive than the 12, which blows my mind.
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#1050760 - 09/03/17 04:51 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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HOPEFULLY that will change BC, as more agencies are either changing to or ADDING the 20 to their arsenal.
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#1050783 - 09/04/17 09:05 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Lord Mortdecai Online   content
Junk Yard Dog

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I had a little Remington 870 Compact Junior 20ga for my wife to use on our mini-farm. That was the handiest little shotgun! It had an 18" Vent-Rib / Rem-Choke barrel and the 20ga sized receiver. She used it on coyotes!

I actually regret selling that one when we moved.

The Compact Junior was an "express grade" gun. If Remington would off the same set up in "police grade" I'd definitely add one.

I think I still have about 250rds of 20ga buckshot and slugs.

Nobody here wants to buy 20ga ammo!
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#1050784 - 09/04/17 09:26 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Originally Posted By: SkunkHunter
HOPEFULLY that will change BC, as more agencies are either changing to or ADDING the 20 to their arsenal.


Randy, check your messages.
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#1050793 - 09/04/17 12:06 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Si Senior.
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#1050795 - 09/04/17 12:24 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Lord Mortdecai Online   content
Junk Yard Dog

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Danke Fraulein Hunter
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#1050798 - 09/04/17 01:13 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: Lord Mortdecai]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Originally Posted By: Architect
Danke Fraulein Hunter


Just cause I wear fairy wings doesn't mean I is one! OK, so I ONCE wore a Tu-tu. But it was only for a joke. smile
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#1050800 - 09/04/17 03:23 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Fairy wings. Tu-Tu. This thread needs more manly things.


Anyone kill anything lately?
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#1050817 - 09/04/17 06:56 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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I killed 5 flies at work Saturday night. smile
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#1050823 - 09/04/17 08:05 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Lord Mortdecai Online   content
Junk Yard Dog

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Wow. Maybe the folks there need to bathe more often sick

laugh
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#1050896 - 09/06/17 04:39 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Ooooo. Got a box O'shells due to be delivered later on today. clap BUT won't be home until about 1930 to check. cry Oh well I'll find out when I find out. up

AND it's the good stuff. Federal, Remington and Winchester.


Edited by SkunkHunter (09/06/17 04:40 AM)
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#1050903 - 09/06/17 11:39 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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#1050928 - 09/07/17 02:07 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: Lord Mortdecai]
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Originally Posted By: Architect



Done that once already, at least I would have if I hadn't had on shatterproof glasses. Shooting yourself in the face with a 12ga isn't all it's cracked up to be.
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#1051015 - 09/09/17 08:09 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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243 rounds of 20ga slugs and buckshot! Antifa watch out! wink
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#1051016 - 09/09/17 08:10 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Oh and I have a "Few" other rounds as well for assorted firearms. smile
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#1051033 - 09/09/17 09:07 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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I just received the makings for a 1,000 rounds for my 10 gauge muzzleloader.
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#1051041 - 09/10/17 03:09 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

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Now THAT would be a Scatter Gun!
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#1051055 - 09/10/17 08:22 PM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
Andy the Aussie Offline
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Taking my SSG away at the end of the month now all the new bottom metal and optics are fitted. I need to see if it prefers Winchester 175gn Match or Federal 168gn GMM before I buy more than a box of each (at $55per 20 I can't waste too much ...LOL)

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#1051996 - Yesterday at 10:05 AM Re: Ammo selection [Re: SkunkHunter]
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Junk Yard Dog

Registered: 10/05/08
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Now for the great ammo search. I am partial to Federal. What do you Dogs recommend, for Buckshot and for slugs? BUT I have used Remington and Winchester with good results as well.
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