Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021284
04/07/15 01:45 PM
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MonkeyBomb
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JYD #113
I'm getting to old for this Stuff................
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021285
04/07/15 02:05 PM
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Ray Settanta
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JYD #182
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021286
04/07/15 02:25 PM
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MonkeyBomb
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I have no problem with modern ammo in any of the big 3 defensive rounds. 9mm, 40 or 45.
In all honesty the FBI doesn't know very much about Street level Law Enforcement.
Of all the agencies they are one of the least likely to be involved in a shooting.
That wasn't always the case. We learned a whole lot from the FBI shooting on 4/11/86 in Miami. A tragic and painful lesson though.
JYD #113
I'm getting to old for this Stuff................
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021305
04/07/15 05:49 PM
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YUP, I agree MB. What they should have done is figure that departments have the most officer shootings and then question them about what went right and wrong and then make the determination. The Feds rely on intimidation and reputation mostly and don't really have to "Pull the trigger" as much as their "Studies" would tend to indicate. Just my 2c and I could VERY easily be wrong.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: Ray Settanta]
#1021306
04/07/15 05:50 PM
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Pretty much what I linked to. I clicked on the link and it said that the server was under maintenance.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021310
04/07/15 06:13 PM
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SkunkHunter
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In a nut shell, here is the recommended ammo for Defensive carry.
The Rounds listed bellow in 9mm, .40 Cal and 45 ACP, have been tested extensively and/or meet your carry standard.
9mm
Barnes XPB 115gr HP (35515) such as loaded by Cor-Bon (DPX09115) Winchester Partition Gold 124gr JHP (RA91P) Winchester PDX1 124 gr +P JHP (S9MMPDB) Winchester PDX1 147 gr JHP (S9MMPDB1) Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP) Winchester Ranger Bonded 124 gr +P JHP (RA9BA) Winchester Ranger-T 127gr JHP +P+ (RA9TA) Winchester Ranger-T 147gr JHP (RA9T) Winchester Bonded 147gr JHP (RA9B/Q4364) Speer Gold Dor 124gr JHP Speer Gold Dot 124gr JHP +P (53617) Speer Gold Dot 147gr JHP (53619) Remington Golden Saber 124 gr +P JHP bonded (GSB9MMD) Remington Golden Saber 147gr JHP (GS9MMC) Federal Tactical 124gr JHP (LE9T1) Federal Tactical 135gr JHP +P (LE9T5) Federal HST 147gr JHP (P9HST2) Federal HST 124gr JHP +P (P9HST3)
.40 S&W
Barnes all-copper bullets (140 & 155gr) loaded by: Cor-Bon (DPX40140) Winchester Partition Gold 165gr JHP (RA401P) Winchester PDX1 165 gr JHP (S40SWPDB) Winchester PDX1 160 gr JHP (S40SWPDB1) Winchester Ranger 165gr JHP (RA40TA) Winchester Ranger 180gr JHP (RA40T) Winchester Bonded 180gr JHP (Q4355) Speer Gold Dot 155gr JHP (53961) Speer Gold Dot 180gr JHP (53962) Federal Tactical 165gr JHP (LE40T3) Federal Tactical 180gr JHP (LE40T1) Federal HST 180gr JHP (P40HST1) Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
.45ACP
Barnes XPB/TAC-XP 185gr HP loaded by: Cor-Bon (DPX45185) Taurus (TCB45ACP185HP)
Winchester PDX1 230 gr JHP (S45SWPDb) Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP (RA45T) Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP +P (RA45TP) Federal Tactical 230gr JHP (LE45T1) Federal HST 230gr +P JHP (P45HST1) Federal HST 230gr JHP (P45HST2) Speer Gold Dot 230gr JHP (23966) Speer Gold Dot 230gr +P JHP (53969)
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021339
04/07/15 11:02 PM
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Last edited by SkunkHunter; 04/07/15 11:26 PM.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021340
04/07/15 11:34 PM
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Federal 9mm hst ammo.
SPECIFICATIONS (124 GR/124 GR +P):
Velocity in Feet Per Second Muzzle: 1150/1200 25: 1095/1136 50: 1049/1083 75: 1010/1039 100: 977/1002
Energy in Foot Pounds Muzzle: 364/396 25: 330/355 50: 303/323 75: 281/297 100: 263/277
************************************************************ SPECIFICATIONS (147 GR/147 GR +P):
Velocity in Feet Per Second Muzzle: 1000/1050 25: 976/1020 50: 953/994 75: 933/970 100: 914/949
Energy in Foot Pounds Muzzle: 326/360 25: 311/340 50: 297/323 75: 284/307 100: 273/294
REMINGTON GOLDEN SABRE 9mm +P BJHP 124 384 1180
WINCHESTER RANGER T 9mm+P T-Series 127 441 1250
Last edited by SkunkHunter; 04/09/15 06:33 AM.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021343
04/08/15 03:00 AM
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MonkeyBomb
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Nothing wrong with Golden Sabres or Gold Dots. Both of those have served us very well in real life usage.
JYD #113
I'm getting to old for this Stuff................
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021386
04/08/15 03:48 PM
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Well I found out where I can get the Federal HST3 +P ammo for about 40 dollars more for 500. Now THAT is supposed to be a good round.
Last edited by SkunkHunter; 04/08/15 03:57 PM.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021467
04/09/15 06:18 AM
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OK, I like 147gr 9mm +P ammo. BUT my concern is, will it have enough energy at possibly 100 yards (out of a 16 inch barrel) to actually work as designed. I feel that after reading the ballistics on the 124gr, they would preform, but I would rather have the 147 grainers. What say you dogs. (MOST of my shooting IF NEEDED, I feel very confidant would be no more than 50 yards, but who knows.
Now if we are talking strictly handguns, 25 yards would NORMALLY be the max with the Carbine taking over from there out or even being the PRIMARY.
This is, I believe a valid question no matter if you are talking 9mm, 40 or 45 with the lighter or heavier bullets.
Last edited by SkunkHunter; 04/09/15 06:20 AM.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021473
04/09/15 07:16 AM
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BUT the question still remains, what VELOCITY and FPE are required for reliable expansion and penetration at 50 and again 100 yards?
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021503
04/09/15 10:57 AM
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Ray Settanta
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JYD #182
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021504
04/09/15 11:29 AM
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MonkeyBomb
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A Pistol caliber carbine isn't a 100 yard gun. It will do in a pinch but that's not what it was made for. Expansion or not, I'm not going to stand in front of anyone and dare them to shoot me with it
JYD #113
I'm getting to old for this Stuff................
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021530
04/10/15 12:10 AM
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Ray Settanta
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BUT the question still remains, what VELOCITY and FPE are required for reliable expansion and penetration at 50 and again 100 yards? I have spent several hours on this today. All I can come up with is that hollow points do not all expand uniformly. Different velocities are needed for different brands. But the consensus seems to be that about 1,080 fps is the minimum velocity needed to expand most bullets reliably. Ballistic tables or a ballistic calculator would be needed to see if a particular brand and bullet weight satisfies that requirement at the required distance.
Last edited by Ray Settanta; 04/10/15 12:11 AM.
JYD #182
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021534
04/10/15 01:50 AM
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MB and Ray, I agree, 100 yards is in my NON scientific opinion Is to far. BUT in a pinch... To me personally it will,even with the 16 inch barrel, be a 50 yard weapon at the most. That sounds about right for MOST encounters.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021737
04/13/15 10:36 AM
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Last edited by SkunkHunter; 04/13/15 09:22 PM.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021785
04/14/15 09:50 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
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Ray Settanta
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Thanks for the links. Some good info there. I will bookmark them.
JYD #182
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021790
04/14/15 11:16 AM
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SkunkHunter
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When I find some good stuff I like to pass the information along. You can never have enough information. Well sometimes you can, but that isn't for this site.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1021927
04/18/15 01:44 AM
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A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022055
04/19/15 02:42 PM
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Nothing like this has been posted here before that I know of, so folks were talking about it on another forum I read and thought someone here might find it useful.
This chart breaks down how many shells equal a pound for each caliber.
Interesting tidbits: AK-47 ammo weighs about 1 pound for every 27 rounds where as .22 ammo is 133 rounds per lb. So basically you could carry 100 rounds of AK ammo which is around 3.6lbs or 500 rounds of .22 at 3.7 lbs. lol maybe the .22 survival gun enthusiasts are on to something.
Pistol Calibers
.380 Rounds per pound: 47.06 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.13
9mm Luger Hornady 115gr JHP/XTP Rounds per pound: 38.10 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.63
.38 Special Rounds per pound: 34.78 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.88
.357Mag. Remington UMC 125gr SJHP Rounds per pound: 30.77 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 3.25
.357Mag. Handload 158gr JHP Rounds per pound: 28.07 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 3.56
40S&W Rounds per pound: 28.07 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 3.56
.44magnum 200gr Hornady XTP HP Rounds per pound: 22 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.57
.44magnum 240gr LSWC Bullet Rounds per pound: 19.7 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.07
.45ACP 230gr Winchester Ball Rounds per pound: 21.33 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.69
RifleCalibers
.22 LR Remington Golden 36gr PHP Rounds per pound: 133.33 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 0.75
.223/5.56X45 (milsurp) British Radway Green SS109 63gr Rounds per pound: 37.21 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.69
30-30 Winchester (a.k.a. .30WCF) Winchester Silvertip 170gr flat nose Rounds per pound: 20.28 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.92
.243Whinchester 75gr Hornady V-max Handloads Rounds per pound: 22.22 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.5
.308 Winchester Remington UMC 150gr FMJ Rounds per pound: 19.05 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.25
.308 Winchester 168gr BTHP Match Bullet Rounds per pound: 18.67 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.35
7mm Remington Magnum Winchester 175gr Power Point Rounds per pound:14.68 Weight per 100 rounds(lbs):6.81
7.62X39 Wolf Steel Case 122gr FMJ Rounds per pound:27.59 Weight per 100 rounds(lbs):3.63
Shotgun Calibers
12GA 2 3/4" Slug Federal HI-Shok Slug Rounds per pound: 10.53 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 9.50
12GA 2 3/4" #4 Shot Remington Express 4BK Rounds per pound: 9.30 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 10.75
12GA 2 3/4" #7 1/2 Shot Federal #7 1/2 Shot Rounds per pound: 10.53 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 9.75
12GA 2 3/4"00 Buckshot Federal Express 9 Pellet Rounds per pound: 9.76 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 10.25
12GA 3" Slug Federal 3" Rifled Slug Rounds per pound: 8.89 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 11.25
Last edited by SkunkHunter; 04/19/15 02:43 PM.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022073
04/19/15 08:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
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greaser
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It would appear that the steel case "myth" is upheld in the lucky gunner test. The real issue with most steel cased is the Bi-metal bullets and some of the brands have low enough powder charges as to become unreliable.(Tula refuses to cycle my Adams arms mid length piston upper.) Yes if you are comfortable with changing your own barrels and you use inexpensive ones then steel ammo is just fine but when you add in the cost and inconvenience of bringing your rifle to a gun smith that argument kind of goes out the window as well. As always this is my not so humble opinion and your mileage may very.
JYD#176 "dein Gott schickte mich zu zerstören" "Sic semper evello mortem Tyrannis" "Sometimes the chance of a zombie outbreak is the only reason I need to make many of my life's Decisions." General Delivery
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022138
04/20/15 11:34 PM
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Well I got an answer from Federal about velocity increase of their 124 and 147 grain +P ammo from the 16.5 inch barrel of my CX4. They said probably 25-30 fps. I was expecting more considering the barrel length was about 11-12 inches longer than what they test from (4-5 inch barrels).
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022139
04/20/15 11:40 PM
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greaser
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Yeah that seems unimpressive I guess that the powder they are using is a fast burner and is pretty much done after 5 inches. I wonder how fast you could push it with reloading.
JYD#176 "dein Gott schickte mich zu zerstören" "Sic semper evello mortem Tyrannis" "Sometimes the chance of a zombie outbreak is the only reason I need to make many of my life's Decisions." General Delivery
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022153
04/21/15 03:31 AM
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AZMTHotDog
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Just a few thoughts on the topic: I don't worry too much about the steel case stuff if it is shot in a gun designed for it or that is shot in normal usage. That LG test really only showed that if you take a torch to any metal pipe/barrel to rapidly heat it up to make it soft and then run any kind of reamer through it, the harder objects will obviously be more abrasive. The barrel wear is directly related to the overheated barrel from firing so many rounds so fast more than just the type of projectile going through it, but the powder/bullet type would play into it slightly. The old M60 machine guns had interchangeable barrels and special mitts to change them out with for that same reason, as shooting enough non tracer rounds to cherry a barrel could destroy it in a matter of minutes even though it was just lead bullets being used. If you didn't change it out and pushed the same barrel too hard for too long it could just meltdown and go limp so that it became a safety hazard to pull the trigger again. They don't make viagra for rifles, just guns. In areas with lots of trees like where I live, I prefer 5.45x39mm for rifles as it is a long narrow fairly lightweight bullet that still penetrates wood and soft metals very well yet is still fairly cheap to stack deep. A 1080 round surplus tin is around 33 lbs, is fairly watertight prior to opening and can be opened with a Bussekin no problem. That caliber outperforms .223, .308, 7.62x39 and every pistol caliber I have tested for pine and fir penetration. 7.62x54r does the best out of everything I have tested, but it is a lot heavier ammo and rifle is required to shoot it. I suspect there may have been a lot of trees in Russia where/when these rounds were invented. 9mm ball penetrates the same wood the best out of 9,40,& 45. 357mag works very well as a pistol & carbine one caliber option out to about 125yds yet weighs a lot less than the 44mag option. I have a suspicion that if 357 had been around in the cowboy days where pistols and rifles shared ammo it would have been the most popular round. 22lr and 22mag are nice & lightweight, but for a survival round they are very susceptible to moisture turning them into duds which renders them very ineffective at the worst time. I enjoy them in good times and would use them as barter material when things go bad.
JYD 193, inducted AZMTHotDog aka AZTimT
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022197
04/22/15 12:02 AM
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SkunkHunter
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A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022234
04/23/15 04:19 AM
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I am wanting to run Federal HST or Speer Gold dot ammo, 124gr +P. NOBODY has any for a Price I am willing to pay. I've been checking out the Golden Sabre again and the ballistics on it are about par with the others.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022235
04/23/15 04:25 AM
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Golden Saber GS9MMDD (Bonded) 124gr ammo
Caliber / WT(gr) / Bullet Style 9mm Luger / 124 gr. / Brass-Jacketed Hollow Point +P Index IDI No. GSB9MMD
Velocity (ft/sec) Muzzle 25 yds 50yds 1180 1131 1089
Energy (ft/lbs) Muzzle 25 yds 50 yds 384 352 327
Mid-Range Trajectory 25 yds 50 yds 0.2 0.8
Last edited by SkunkHunter; 04/23/15 04:30 AM.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022236
04/23/15 04:31 AM
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Here is a comparison from Remington for the 124 grain standard and +P ammo.
Comparison Model Golden Saber HPJ Golden Saber HPJ Order No. 29420 29424 Avg Wt Case 14 14 Barrel Length 4" 4" Caliber 9mm Luger 9mm Luger (+P) Energy 100 255 287 Energy 50 293 327 Energy Muzz 349 384 Index GS9MMB GS9MMD Mid 100 4.0" 3.8" Mid 50 1.0" 0.8" Model Golden Saber HPJ Golden Saber HPJ Primer Number 1.5 1.5 Vel 100 963 1021 Vel 50 1031 1089 Vel Muzzle 1125 1180 Wt 124 124
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022249
04/23/15 06:25 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
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SkunkHunter
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Just Popped a cap on 500 rounds of Federal's Zombie Preventative HST 124gr +P Medicine! Not bad for $230.00
Last edited by SkunkHunter; 04/23/15 06:41 AM.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022255
04/23/15 08:05 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
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SkunkHunter
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I found a place (thanks to TOM) that I had forgot about. It pays to have low friends in high places. No wait, that didn't come out right. Well you know what I mean.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022558
04/29/15 10:05 PM
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Last edited by SkunkHunter; 04/29/15 10:06 PM.
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022582
04/30/15 03:18 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,066
AZMTHotDog
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Congratulations on a good score there! Those ought to punch some fancy holes in things not properly ventilated.
JYD 193, inducted AZMTHotDog aka AZTimT
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022614
05/01/15 02:12 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 116,122
SkunkHunter
OP
Junk Yard Dog
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OP
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 116,122 |
Yeah they come highly recommended. AND they came in at a price that beat what I had found Golden Sabers for!
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1022615
05/01/15 02:13 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 116,122
SkunkHunter
OP
Junk Yard Dog
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OP
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 116,122 |
They will be supplying my Beretta CX4 and Keltec PF9 and My Sig P225 and my Glock 17 and...
A Little Paranoia Will Keep You Safe (ALPWKYS) Be a Sheepdog JYD#105
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Re: Ammo selection
[Re: SkunkHunter]
#1033182
10/05/15 01:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,491
Mastiff
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,491 |
WOW, that PowerStrike ammo looks.....interesting.
Remember this: Everytime I blink, you disappear.
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