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458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" #1039285 03/29/16 08:40 AM
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So....I have a brand new beautiful Radical Arms 458 SOCOM upper with a 16" melonite barrel and wicked muzzle break in my safe, all scoped out with a Burris e1 2-7x32mm.....and I haven't shot it. Ever. I love the IDEA of the gun--I absolutely love my 45-70 and think the SOCOM would also be a blast (so to speak). But I haven't shot it. I haven't even loaded rounds for it yet. I trimmed half my brass and gave up or got busy with other projects.

While I LOVE the IDEA of the SOCOM, I'm not sure I can justify it. It's kinda like most Busses I've owned--love them, but can't bring myself to use them. Part of the problem is ammo. Loaded rounds are still about $40-60/box, which I figured "No problem! I reload and already have ton of 45-70 bullets, so I can do this one on the cheap!" But I'm finding life and time gets in the way.

Awesome tree stand gun, right? That and a great anti-personnel round if needed. BUT....I have a Blackout that shoots great and has the same effective range as the 458 (about 200 ydrds, give or take)! I've got a 6.5 Grendel that I can't wait to finish sighting in so I can snipe deer off out to 500 yards. And of course I have my trusty 223--stainless match grade 16" barrel with a 1:7 twist. Right bullet and it becomes a great deer round as well! That's my problem, I think. Too many calibers, not enough time. I'm also getting shoulder problems and worry the recoil on the SOCOM might be more than I want at this point. I already have a Guide Gun to slam my shoulder wink

So I am thinking I should sell the upper, keep the lower (or maybe sell the whole thing and buy a new lower...), and add an 18-20" 223 to the mix, be down one less caliber to load for, and put a few hundred dollars back in the bank AND make my wife happy (which really is the FIRST consideration).

I LOVE big bore guns and WANT an ultimate big bore AR, but does it really fill a niche I need filling? Does it give me more manliness; manliness I will lose if I sell it?

I think the answer is "sell--pass this on to someone with more time to reload (or money for ammo) and who will use it more often." I have the entire set up ready to go--just add a press, powder, and primers.

Or maybe wait until November and sell in the panic buying likely to accompany this election cycle wink I'm not in this for arbitrage, but selling for 3x the original price ...

Would love to hear pros and cons I'm not considering wink

Last edited by DogTired; 03/29/16 08:43 AM.

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Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039286 03/29/16 08:52 AM
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I helped a coworker buy a RA 458 upper. Sounds identical to the one you have. He had zero reliability with gun show purchased ammo ("newly manufactured"), but 100% reliability with known name ammo. He was impressed with the cartridge's performance against wood (dead trees at 10 yards). His testing showed a lot of bullet drop over 100 yards. I think he ended up zero'g at 75 yards.

He bought it for hog hunting.

I'd view a 458 SOCOM upper as I would any other specialized HUNTING gun. Personally I don't hunt so I don't have any dedicated hunting guns. I don't see any other reason to own a 458 SOCOM.

Your 300BO negates the need for the 458.

EDITED: I'm not a wildcat person since I don't reload. I want to have common ammo availability. As such, I think there are better defensive options than the 458. 12 gauge, 5.56 and 7.62x51.

Last edited by Architect; 03/29/16 08:57 AM.

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I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039287 03/29/16 09:08 AM
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It's a cool round but I'd think the .300BLK has you covered for what that socom can do. At the price per round I'd probably pass it on.


Any day I'm above the grass and I'm not a zombie is a good day! JYD#138

Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039288 03/29/16 09:12 AM
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Thats about where i come down on it now too.... and I think the 300 can probably drop hogs just fine. Now if I were in Alaska and wanted bear protection.....


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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

"A free people ought to be armed."

- George Washington
Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039289 03/29/16 09:42 AM
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I agree with both comments by GD and DT.

When the round was first introduced I heard a lot of interest in gun stores, and read a lot of positive comments on forums. However, like most fads it died quickly. The round has a definitive hunting purpose, but outside of hog hunting I just don't see a need. If you deer hunt in a handgun cartridge only state the 458 might comply with OAL requirements, but again ... its a highly specialized hunting round.

Personally, I like more versatility in my gun selections. I could have easily chosen a S&W 629 44Mag for my hiking animal projection needs, but I went with a Glock 20 10MM because it is easier to conceal, can be carried for 2 legged defense during the 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of my life not spent on the trail, etc. Versatility. The 458 lacks it.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039296 03/29/16 10:29 AM
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What ever happened to .450 bushmaster?


Any day I'm above the grass and I'm not a zombie is a good day! JYD#138

Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: gun dog] #1039300 03/29/16 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gun dog
What ever happened to .450 bushmaster?


Exactly.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039301 03/29/16 01:53 PM
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458 SOCOM lasted longer because people (for whatever reason) want what our Special Forces use. I've read the use of the 458 was a very limited / specialized experiment.

I wonder if SOCOM will replace the insanely overused term "tactical".

They sell tactical bacon for Pete's sake.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039309 03/29/16 03:44 PM
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Hahahaha yep


Any day I'm above the grass and I'm not a zombie is a good day! JYD#138

Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039310 03/29/16 04:10 PM
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I don't have a a monkey in this circus, but sounds to me (from just reading y'alls posts that the 300BlK Out will work for you just fine DT. It's NICE to have all this hardware available, but WILL we ever use it? And being working stiffs, can we REALLY afford them? I want a lot of stuff, but can't afford it. That's why I am sorta picky (unless we're talking about stuff for Patty) smile


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Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039311 03/29/16 04:57 PM
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Randy makes a good point...

"Pick your hill to die on". I'm blessed with a large fun budget, but still like common (re: cheap) "calibers" (yet another incorrectly used term as "cartridge" would be more accurate).


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039314 03/29/16 05:55 PM
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Yeah well price per round ain't the issue since I COULD load it cheap. It's more the time and thinking what else the cash can be used for.


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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

"A free people ought to be armed."

- George Washington
Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039322 03/29/16 11:14 PM
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I was just thinking I reload and have really wanted to try the 458 socom.


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"dein Gott schickte mich zu zerstören"
"Sic semper evello mortem Tyrannis"
"Sometimes the chance of a zombie outbreak is the only reason I need to make many of my life's Decisions." General Delivery
Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039324 03/30/16 01:22 AM
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Well again from what I've read, since you don't have a Grizzly or Elephant problem there (I'm just guessing here), would you not perhaps be better served with a caliber you WOULD use for hunting or ???. Oh and Ammo to go with said caliber.


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Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039325 03/30/16 01:26 AM
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Ultimately though, the decision is yours. Do you want it enough to justify the outlay of money and time (not to mention the time it will take) to enjoy it?

We all make decisions on our needs, or perceived needs. That's why I have gone to the 20ga shotgun and 9mm as my primary "Beat 'em back" firearms. For ME I think I will be best served by those said firearms, based upon where I live and the ability to secure (Scrounge) ammo for them and the ability for Patty to be able to use them as well.

Last edited by SkunkHunter; 03/30/16 02:50 AM.

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Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039327 03/30/16 07:11 AM
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Haha! Some good words of advice all around. I actually WOULD use it deer hunting though...it would be a killer round...so to speak grin Great woods gun, like that 45-70 with the ability to carry more rounds (10/mag). Wtth a 250-325gr bullet, it would kill anything dead within 200 yards or so.

Costs are already sunk and any additional ones are marginal--powder and primers. I've got a lot of 45-70 bullets...That was my deciding factor in choosing the 458 over the 450 or the 500--one less component. Corbon submitted the designs for SAMII approval but dropped it--it's a long, arduous process and they stopped halfway through (which is why we have Lee case trimming guides shorter than Starline's published recommended lengths (I spoke with Starline and Lee about it to figure out why the Lee was trimming the brass so short). If someone else finished what Corbon started, ammo would drop to 20+30/box. But that's neither here nor there.

Hahaha! I'm still trying to convince myself not to sell it grin I have several guns in multiple calibers. Some more exotic than others (when was the last time you saw 300H&H on the shelves?). Variety is the spice of life as it were.

Serioualy though, from a preppers standpoint, multiple calibers isn't ncessarily bad. I bought two nines andn a 1911 long before the crisis hit after Sandyhook thinking 9 andn45 are everywhere. After the crazy happened, it was the ubiquitous ammo that went fastest. From that perspective I shoulda bought a 40mm and a 22-250. Walmart ALWAYS had those in stock!

Now a real prepper wouldn't have been buying ammo when it couldn't bf found I suppose....but if you always want something in stock, those less popular cartridges are probably better. 20 is good. Fewer people shoot it than 12, it's easy on the shoulder, and a good all purpose gun. If I buy another gun for myself, it will be a pump 20.

In the end, I think it's more a gesture I need to make to my wife, and something I need to do for myself. I like to tell myself I could get rid of all my toys if needed--that my identity isn't in my guns or knives or gear. It's good to periodically purge--even if only symbolically.


JYD #126
Super JYD #13

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

"A free people ought to be armed."

- George Washington
Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039328 03/30/16 07:59 AM
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Good Post DT. In the past I have sold and traded some of my "Stash" to fund another purchase or purchases. I have also sold some to buy something for Patty. THAT I have never regretted. I would rather see the gleam in her eyes and the happiness on her face than a new Glock, AR15 etc.

And YES, many times the non main line calibers are the way to go when you are going to count on "Found" ammo.


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Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039330 03/30/16 08:27 AM
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All that said and done, IF all you got left to buy is powder and primers (something you will have to buy anyway), I'd say go ahead and shoot it. As you said, elsewhere, IF popular calibers become as scarce as hens teeth, you might well find yourself with a plethora (nice word huh) of ammo when others have none.

EVERYBODY needs toys. We just gotta pick which ones we really want more than others.

Like I said before, ultimately the decision is yours. We are just bystanders, armchair quarterbacks as it were.


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Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039331 03/30/16 09:26 AM
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After the Sandy Hook craze the only ammo available 100% of the time at our three local WalMarts were: 40SW, 7mm-08, and 30-06.

I do not own any of these.

I prefer to buy BEFORE a scare.

Buy it cheap. Stack it deep.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039332 03/30/16 09:33 AM
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The reason I sold my reloading equipment was the incredibly low price of factory practice ammo at the time. Since then brass case ammo prices have increased, but Eastern European steel case has offset this.

Personally, I only viewed reloaded ammo as practice as I didn't trust the quality of my reloaded ammo for defense and feared the court room repercussions of making "killer rounds" (sheeple jury fodder). I always felt it was much more defensible to state I carried and used (in self defense) the same gun and ammo as the local PD. It would be unAmurakan to question LE (sorry Randy).





JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1039333 03/30/16 09:35 AM
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I also believe the time to prepare is before a disaster, and therefore you should have your ammo reserve already established.

I don't want to be scrounging the ground after an engagement looking for brass. It's hard enough to find at the static range.



JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039337 03/30/16 10:28 AM
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Haha! Yeah, NEVER shoot someone with your reloads. Never. Uess the social order collapses...then zombies can die by whatever means necessary. No courts=no liberal juries scared of guns. wink no offense to our liberal friends here grin

And yes, high and deep when it's cheap is a GREAT motto.

What I REALLY want now is an AK grin Shot a friends and now I know why they have such a following. Nice and easy to shoot and accuracy ain't all bad for iron sights. If I could get one with a rail...


JYD #126
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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

"A free people ought to be armed."

- George Washington
Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039338 03/30/16 11:11 AM
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no apology necessary Gary. A lot of folks think that way. Most delta I have talked to (smaller departments) gO with the cheapest ammo, not necessarily the best. And YES, right from our own prosecutor, hand loads are carrion calling to them.


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Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039339 03/30/16 11:22 AM
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When I was stationed in Fayetnam NC I could have got one for 70.oo


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Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039347 03/30/16 09:14 PM
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The good old days... How much was a mule? What was penny candy like? wink

Last edited by gun dog; 03/30/16 09:15 PM.

Any day I'm above the grass and I'm not a zombie is a good day! JYD#138

Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039349 03/30/16 10:10 PM
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LOL Not nice GD, funny but not nice.


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"dein Gott schickte mich zu zerstören"
"Sic semper evello mortem Tyrannis"
"Sometimes the chance of a zombie outbreak is the only reason I need to make many of my life's Decisions." General Delivery
Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039351 03/30/16 10:47 PM
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Hahaha!!!! Actually, I'd spend some summers as a kid in my dad's office at college. I figured out if I bought the 1 cent Tootsie rolls 4 at a time, I could avoid sales tax. I had a lot of pennies and a lot of time....man....that cashier really had to work for her student aid paycheck. grin


JYD #126
Super JYD #13

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

"A free people ought to be armed."

- George Washington
Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039352 03/30/16 10:48 PM
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I'm not as old as Randy....but I remeber when candy cost a penny...not penny candy, per se, but candy FOR a penny wink


JYD #126
Super JYD #13

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

"A free people ought to be armed."

- George Washington
Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: gun dog] #1039358 03/30/16 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by gun dog
The good old days... How much was a mule? What was penny candy like? wink


The good ole days....

I remember buying:

1,440rd cases of AP 7.62x39mm for .... $59
New in cosmoline SKSs for .... $69
NIB Hk91 rifles for .... $699

That was the pre89 days.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039359 03/30/16 11:36 PM
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Oh, my first COLT AR-15 cost $359 in 1984. I was underage so my uncle had to buy it for me.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039360 03/30/16 11:38 PM
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BTW $359 had much greater buying power in '84 than the same basic Colt selling for around $850 now.

If you look at an inflation calculator I'd guess the AR market has gone DOWN over the past 32 years.

Wow, 32 years of continuous AR15 ownership.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039362 03/30/16 11:46 PM
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Wow and so many lesions learned


Any day I'm above the grass and I'm not a zombie is a good day! JYD#138

Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: gun dog] #1039367 03/31/16 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by gun dog
The good old days... How much was a mule? What was penny candy like? wink


Mike, don't forget I CAN find out where you live! mad wink

Last edited by SkunkHunter; 03/31/16 01:33 AM.

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Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: gun dog] #1039391 04/01/16 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by gun dog
Wow and so many lesions learned


Let's hope those lesions heal before they turn septic.....


JYD #126
Super JYD #13

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

"A free people ought to be armed."

- George Washington
Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039399 04/01/16 11:17 AM
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Yup DT THEY COULD cause him a lot of trouble! wink


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Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039400 04/01/16 02:13 PM
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If you're talking about me...I'm not bitter...


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039401 04/01/16 02:22 PM
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gun dog Offline
Junk Yard Dog
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Hahahaha


Any day I'm above the grass and I'm not a zombie is a good day! JYD#138

Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039573 04/05/16 11:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 25,595
DogTired Offline OP
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Just imagine a 458 on full auto grin grin grin


JYD #126
Super JYD #13

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

"A free people ought to be armed."

- George Washington
Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039604 04/06/16 01:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,736
gun dog Offline
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,736
So much money burning lol


Any day I'm above the grass and I'm not a zombie is a good day! JYD#138

Re: 458 SOCOM--Is there a "NEED?" [Re: DogTired] #1039706 04/08/16 02:48 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 25,595
DogTired Offline OP
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Junk Yard Dog
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Posts: 25,595
So many bodies dropping! grin


JYD #126
Super JYD #13

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

"A free people ought to be armed."

- George Washington
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