Scrap Yard Discussion Forums

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Looking at making my first knife #291249 05/23/09 03:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,293
tyger75 Offline OP
Junk Yard Dog
OP Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,293
So, I just bought myself a midrange drill press, and assembled it all last night. I've also ordered a very large supply of BZ belts from Lee Valley, as well as some cheap, very coarse belts from another company.

I plan to try and make my first knife; waiting back on a response from a nearby metal supplier. Hopefully either D2, BG-42, or 154CM. The supplier might be able to get S30V, but has to check on it. Since I'm thinking of using this as a kitchen all-purpose blade, a nice stainless seems the way to go.

My first attempt isn't going to be huge or anything; just a small blade, similar to the Muela Rebeco blade I own, just slightly more curved. Still haven't figured what I'd like to slap onto it for handle material though.

What type of drill bits should I be looking at for drilling through the steel, for creating the holes for holding the scales on? What speed should I be attempting to drill through the steel? The press can drill at speeds of 570, 900, 1390, 2050, and 3050 RPMs.

Once I've gotten the basic form, should I temper the steel? If so, how would I do it, since I've no knowledge of what this process involves.

Any help here would be appreciated.


JYD#70 Warning! There are more than just dogs in this yard!
Re: Looking at making my first knife [Re: tyger75] #291250 05/23/09 05:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,374
snotpig Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,374
Here's the process I follow (right or wrong) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
1. select the steel - type, thickness, width, & length (3/16" A2 for me) and order (order fully annealed steel. Annealing makes the steel very soft and easy to work. If it's not annealed, then cutting and drilling it will be very difficult if not impossible.

2. draw a pattern on a sheet of paper and cut it out (keep the cut-out knife sillohette, you'll need it later

3. see how the pattern feels in hand, repeat step 2 if if feels weird or doesn't fit

4. once the pattern fits and you are happy with it, lay it over the steel and trace using a sharpie (fine point works best for me)

5. remove pattern and admire and get a coke <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

6. go back to steel and attach cutoff disc to dremel tool

7. lightly trace the sharpie outline to make a scratched outline in the steel (this is to make the line permanent so the line won't wipe, wash, or burn away)
[Linked Image from sites.google.com]

8. cut out the blade shape. some people use a vertical bandsaw, or drill holes around the perimeter, or continue using the dremel cutoff wheel (suggest fiber-reinforced if you want to use the dremel), I use a combo of the dremel cutoff wheel and a 7" metal cutoff blade attached to my bench ginder in place of a wheel. This allows for access to small inside curves.

[Linked Image from i247.photobucket.com]
[Linked Image from sites.google.com]

9. sit back and admire your work. You're about halfway home. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

10. start grinding what's called the "primary grind". some people like to start this process by using a about a 1/8"-3/16" round file near the choil to make the "plunge cuts" even on both sides before starting with the belt sander. I don't do this (not sure why, though). grind first with the coarsest grit. Once you feel the blade grind is about 90% complete, start moving to finer grits. Once all the grind marks are gone from teh previous grit, move to a smaller grit belt. I like to end on about 240 - 320 grit before heat treating.
[Linked Image from s247.photobucket.com]
[Linked Image from i247.photobucket.com]
[Linked Image from sites.google.com]

11. This is the point where I drill my holes. If the steel is fully annealed (purchased that way), this is not very hard (no pun intended <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) Use the SLOWEST (I use 160 rpm) drill speed you have (just about any drill bit will work (DO NOT use brad point drill bits) and alot of cutting oil (3 in 1, or any heavy lubricating oil). This will save your bits and make them last much longer. This is where I tap my handles because I use screws to fasten my scales to the tang.

12. heat treat - if you are using stainless, you'll want to send it out. stainless steels require a very high, precise heat 1900 degF for an extended period (35-45 min). I can do this, but I can only air quench. Texas Knife Supply can do this - I've heard their prices are reasonable.

13. Once the blade has been heat treated, you can hand sand the finish on it. Using 240-500 grit sandpaper.

14. Cover the newly finished blade with masking tape to protect the finish.

15. cut out handle material. I use 1/4" thick material for just about everything. 5/16" is just about as thick as I have ever used.

16. Match drill both scales to match the holes in the tang

17. Attach the scales and shape scales to match the shape of the tang. Finish scales accordingly.

18. Viola! Knife!
[Linked Image from i247.photobucket.com]
[Linked Image from i247.photobucket.com]

My first knife:
[Linked Image from s247.photobucket.com]


Re: Looking at making my first knife [Re: snotpig] #291251 05/23/09 06:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,120
Jon C Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,120
Nice!


JYD #94
Re: Looking at making my first knife [Re: snotpig] #291252 05/23/09 07:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,688
MRpink Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,688
Great post snotpig!

Quote
grind first with the coarsest grit. Once you feel the blade grind is about 90% complete, start moving to finer grits.

Tyger, you said you bought some cheap coarse belts, I would highly suggest premium belts (i.e. Norton Blaze), they cut faster and last longer. Like snotpig said, about 90% of time you'll be working with the coarse stuff. Ban said he goes through 15-20 coarse belts for every 1 fine grit belt. I didn't believe him at first, but I'm through my 4th coarsest belt and still on my 1st 120 grit.


JYD #56 Scrap Yard Sword Club #00
Re: Looking at making my first knife [Re: MRpink] #291253 05/23/09 09:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 208
TewlMakr Offline
Mutt
Offline
Mutt
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 208
Great Pics. i really like the blade with the Black Micarta? Is that what it is?
My first knife is about 19 pics down. Its the little one with no handles.
Tanto style blade made from S-7. Ill post some pics. If i can find them.
Again, Great pics!!!


"If it's got to be pointy past 12" then you carried a knife to a gunfight!!"
Re: Looking at making my first knife [Re: MRpink] #291254 05/23/09 11:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,293
tyger75 Offline OP
Junk Yard Dog
OP Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,293
Quote
Great post snotpig!

Quote
grind first with the coarsest grit. Once you feel the blade grind is about 90% complete, start moving to finer grits.

Tyger, you said you bought some cheap coarse belts, I would highly suggest premium belts (i.e. Norton Blaze), they cut faster and last longer. Like snotpig said, about 90% of time you'll be working with the coarse stuff. Ban said he goes through 15-20 coarse belts for every 1 fine grit belt. I didn't believe him at first, but I'm through my 4th coarsest belt and still on my 1st 120 grit.

Well, when I say that they're cheaper, I merely meant the price, not the quality. I ordered 30 x-weight belts, ranging from 60 to 200 grit. Combined with the 12 Blue Zirconia belts I ordered from Lee Valley, I figure I should be covered for coarse belts.

I just got back from buying a Dremel, with the metal cutting discs, as well as a couple Tungsten Carbide cutter bits, for cutting the knife design free of the stock. As well, I'll be borrowing my buddies 4" x 36" bench sander to help in removing some of the stock from the blade.

I won't be able to do anything until I get the call back from the supplier on what metal they can provide, and of course, the coarse belts come in.

BTW, Snotpig, thanks for the info; I like that small axe and Chefs' knife you made. Very cool! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by tyger75; 05/23/09 11:53 PM.

JYD#70 Warning! There are more than just dogs in this yard!
Re: Looking at making my first knife [Re: tyger75] #291255 05/24/09 12:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,668
sumoj275 Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,668
Tyger, good for you. I would love to try my hand at some from a blank someday. SP, nice work!


Men you can't trust, women you can't trust, beasts you can't trust, but Bussekin steel you can trust
Re: Looking at making my first knife [Re: sumoj275] #291256 05/24/09 12:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
Tyger, I too, am working on / starting my first knife. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I haven't bought a drill press yet - I'm using a friends but I might head to Harbor Freight this weekend and pick one up. I also want to get a Dremel.

I can't add much to Snotpig's post - He is a pro and i'm a newb...but I'll contribute a few things i have learned. Buy your steel annealed - it makes things way easier. I plan to send mine out for HT but you don't have to if you feel comfortable HT;ing it yourself. If you are going to send it out - make sure you know what steels they will HT. BOS won't HT carbon steels anymore.

Some things I do that I can add to SP's post - I draw a center line around the perimeter of the blade so when I am grinding I can use it as a guide to get the grind even on each side. A trick I learned is to use a drill bit the same diameter as the steel thickness your using...for 1/8" steel - trace around the edge with a 1/8" drill bit while the bit and blade are on a perfectly flat surface - that should trace a line at 1/16". Turn the blade over and repeat in case the steel thickness isn't exact. I also trace my drawing on Masonite so I can keep the templates for later use.

Now, I have a question <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My fist knife is at the point where I need to put the blade grind on it and i want to do a full flat grind...It is 1/8" thick - How do I determine the grind angle to get it even on both sides?

Thanks and good luck to you Tyger - Lets both keep in touch and follow each other's progress. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I will help you with anything I can. I am using 1080 steel and as i mentioned, I have my blade profiled and am about to start the blade grind. Fun stuff! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


KS JYD #93 "Life's too short..."
Re: Looking at making my first knife [Re: KnotSlip] #291257 05/24/09 12:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,293
tyger75 Offline OP
Junk Yard Dog
OP Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,293
Good luck back at you, KS.

I was considering doing an angled grind myself, but decided to try a full convexed edge instead. We'll see what we see, eh? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


JYD#70 Warning! There are more than just dogs in this yard!
Re: Looking at making my first knife [Re: tyger75] #291258 05/24/09 01:00 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
To do a full convex grind, don't you have to first start with a high or full flat grind and then round it off to convex? Not sure that's the only way of doing it, but that's one way I have read about... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


KS JYD #93 "Life's too short..."
Re: Looking at making my first knife [Re: KnotSlip] #291259 05/24/09 01:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,293
tyger75 Offline OP
Junk Yard Dog
OP Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,293
Oh, I've got some reading and brain picking ahead of me, no doubts about it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


JYD#70 Warning! There are more than just dogs in this yard!
Re: Looking at making my first knife [Re: tyger75] #291260 05/24/09 08:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 684
I
Implume Offline
Scrapper
Offline
Scrapper
I
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 684
Grind first, heat treat later, certainly makes sense. But that approach has it’s plusses and minuses.

Years ago I knew a Sword Smith who worked with stock removal rather than forging. This was in the early days of the SCA. Back in the late ‘sixties, swords, daggers, halberds, and other period weapons were not thick on the ground and ripe in the pod.

My buddy the Smith would cut swords to shape, and then grind the shaped stock. At that point the blades were sent to a heat treat specialist. One of his blade blanks—intended to be a double edged straight sword—returned from the heat treat as a double edged scimitar. As scimitars go, it was a wonderful sword. But it was a far cry from what he had intended. The best we could figure out was that the double edge grind had not been consistent. There was enough difference between the way that one edge was ground, compared to the other edge, that the heat treat—um—treated the two edges as different entities. One edge contracted. The opposite edge expanded. The result was something more likely to be carried by Saladin than by Cour-de-lion.

My buddy had made a deliciously curved sword which was a happy accident. Nevertheless, it was a failure in terms of the quality control that a smith needs to maintain when shaping a blade. When you cut and grind a blade blank, and send it in for heat treat, you should not to be shooting dice. It is a Very Good Thing to learn sufficient grinding skill that whatever blade you make will end up the way you intend it to finish. If you cut and grind one knife and the heat treat specialists return you a different knife, you need to work on your grinding skills.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3