Careful if you guys don't have Antivirus to detect it! Don't go to the site.

Here is a thread on the subject.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=647824

Thanks for the heads-up!

Glad I use Firefox - It seems to be targeted mainly at IE. I also run SpySweeper, Spybot and Symantec AV. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Nothing like being over-protected.

No knotslip, nothing like running on a Mac!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Little problem with Macs though; hard to, Ahem, tweek them to do certain things.

The`re very handy (If you can afford them) to do all sorts of audio and video operations. But if you`re someone like myself, a Mac is useless for what you`re using a computer for. The things I do don`t require a GUI (Graphics User Interface... sorry for the geek talk! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Try running a solely Linux based system; no problems with viruses, but unfriendly for non-programmers. I once had to operate several Sun system computers; very powerful system, capable of outdoing anything on the current retail market, but they`re very pricey, and almost entirely command line interface. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Bank onto subject, I hope the problem with the Busse site is resolved soon.

LOL, you're showing your lack of Mac experience. If you are a command line guy, the built in application, Terminal, is for you. It gives you complete access to the UNIX underpinning of Mac OS X. Best of both worlds. GUI for day to day and command line for tweeking.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well, that's cool that it can do that then. But can you tweek the hardware? For example, overclocking your CPU, diverting system RAM as additional video RAM, or creating RAM drives? Again, these are just some examples that come off the top of my head.

What about the ability to upgrade individual cards/components, versus buying an entire new computer? I haven't seen any suppliers carrying MAC component cards, etc.?

Really, IMO, for the cost of a MAC as opposed to a PC, I'll stick with the PC, as I can more easily afford it. When you come right down to it, a PC with Linux or Unix can be just as useful as a MAC for what I'm using it for.

I agree, PC's are way less proprietary and way more customizable. And, I can't play my games on a Mac. They are great if you like them but PC's are my choice. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the heads up. This happens every now and then, I wonder what's up? If hackers can get into their site, how safe is our info when we order? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I can do all of those except overclocking. I haven't checked recently, so am unsure whether it's possible or not, but I would imagine it would be. I've never had a need to do so.

For what it's worth, I switched to macs while I was working as a computational programmer on linux based systems - using primarily beowulf clusters to run massively parallel simulations. I was doing a ton of coding in C++, as well as some side projects in java, python, FORTRAN (<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />) and some scripting in perl.

I did all of this on a linux desktop running a LFS (that's linux-from-scratch) home-rolled distribution that I compiled from source from the ground up.

Then my boss bought us all G4 ibooks. Within a day, I had a full Gnome UI installed, plus all the GNU programming tools you could possibly desire. I had every single linux program I could ever need, and a whole new catalog of extra software that was WAY slicker and more polished than anything available on an open source platform. Within a month, I was using Apple Xcode to do all my programming - it blows every other IDE I've ever used out of the water, and it is essentially a slick graphical frontend to all the GNU tools, with the ability to drive down into the command line versions as needed.


In addition to that, I didn't have to recompile my kernel to get my sound card working, and upgrading X didn't break my entire GUI, leaving me to hunt through configuration files for three days trying to get it fixed. Everything simply worked, giving me the opportunity to actually get work done, instead of screwing with my computer. On top of that, I found that all that tweaking and tinkering that I had prided myself on for the last near decade of linux-only computing was actually a royal PITA, and I liked having my computer be a means, and not the end, as it often was in the past.



Basically, my opinion exactly echo-ed your argument, nearly word for word, until I actually USED a mac for a significant amount of time.


All the power of a full-blown UNIX system with almost none of the headaches, and a GUI that is slicker, more efficient, and more straightforward than anything else on the market.



Yeah, the hardware is somewhat more expensive, but to me it's worth every single penny.

Games used to be the single biggest argument against buying a mac. However, now that you can install windows on them using Boot Camp, games are easily playable. The only downside is the fact that the video cards in their consumer-level desktops can't be swapped out, so you're stuck with whatever they decide to offer. My desktop is the crazy over-priced pro model, so I can change my video card, but it came with such a beast of a card that it hasn't been an issue yet.

I would never want to use windows full time, but I'm willing to reboot into it once in a while to play a game.

All good for you, MM, but again you gotta have the money to invest into a MAC. You got it, I don't. So, I'm satisfied with working with my Linux PC; it's what I can afford, so it's what I use.

so MAC is the busse of the computer industry..

ill stick w/ my scrapper PC

No, the PC is more like a United Cutlery fantasy knife - only good for playing games and acting like a goofball, and it will probably break if you ever try to actually use it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Linux is more like the scrapper of the industry... cheap, sometimes sort of ugly, but incredibly functional. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Overclocking info

All the other stuff is also available, I use RAM disks for Photoshop frequently. As far as hardware upgrades, it depends on the Mac you bought and how handy you are. The Mac Pro is designed to upgrade as it is marketed to professionals. The low end Mac mini is also a favorite to hack and it's cheap.

BTW, it's Mac not MAC. Two totally different things.

Oh, I should mention that because of my job, I'm a bit biased towards Macs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

oy vei


this is too complicated.

Oh, and if you look hard you can get good deals on Macs. I have a 2.66 quad core Intel(Woodcrest) Mac Pro with 9GB's RAM and 3 TB's of storage for under $1375

Where did you find that?? I want five! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hmm, for my entire PC setup, taxes in, I spent $428 Canadian. I'll still stick with the PC; like I said, it's what I can afford, what with my mortgage, truck payments, and ever expanding knife addiction. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hi Tyger,

I run (along with the other 7 members of my team) about 220 linux hosts and 20-30 solaris hosts.
We support free, proprietary and bespoke applications software/services on our unix hosts.

I don't require a GUI to do most of this (though running the LDAP clusters and LDAP proxies is sometimes easier with the confg gui).

FYI Macs have a command line.
/Applications/Utilities/Terminal
It is in fact nicer than most xterms (e.g. nice drag and drop).

The default shell on OSX, like most linuxes, is bash.

Other shells are available by default:
L1A1% ls /bin/*sh*
/bin/bash /bin/ksh /bin/tcsh /bin/zsh-4.3.4
/bin/csh /bin/sh /bin/zsh
L1A1%

The standard sorts of tools that most sys admins use are installed by default out of the box, e.g. vim,ssh, scp, dig, nslookup, traceroute, X11 server (just in case you do need to run some GUI stuff other then OSX) and the other usual suspects are all included. An RDP client can be downloaded for free from MS if you are unfortunate enough (as I am) to need to tweak the occasional windows box.

Lots of IDEs are available to if your a programmer.
There are not many bits of posix/unix software that can't be compiled on a mac, Macs being posix compliant.

I can't think of many other roles which require command line tools as the preferred/most often used tools.

As for tweaking, OSX is not as tweakable as most linux GUIs, however it is at least as tweakable as a windows, and the non GUI parts are just as tweakable as any other unix. Many of the GUI tweaks people from other platforms want are often because they are not aware of the OSX paradigm or the OSX equivalent features.
I.e. they don't know the Mac features, or they really want Windows.

The thing is that many Unix sys admins have not taken the time to learn the OSX specific command line tools for configing OSX and config locations/methods so they think OSX is not tweakable.

The hardware is somewhat less tweakable, but for normal people doing normal stuff including sys adminning and programming.

The shortcomings uyou point out about hardware tweaking are in fact true for all platforms except the PC.

Overclocking Sun boxes, getting new video cards to RS6000s is not easy - though it is easier on Macs than for any other platform , except the PC.
So if your thing is hardware tweaking (as opposed to OS tweaking), then yeah the PC is definately superior there are lots of bits of hardware available and it is cheap to replace if you break it. Same in economy/absolute hardware cost. PCs are cheaper to buy (but not necesarily run or maintain), at least in the low end.

Same with gaming. The PC is better gaming platform than a Mac, Sunbox, HPUX box, RS6000 etc etc.

However for normal people doing normal stuff, e.g. reading mail, surfing the web, word proccesing, spreadhseets, chat, pohtom editing, making videos, mixing audio the PC is not really superior and in some areas is noticably inferior under either linux or windows.
Same for people who are non-windows sys admins or programmers (again as you alluded to in your first post).


The good thing about a Macs for unix people I which is what I think you alluded to in your first post) in a windows world (which is where most of us live) is that most of the world uses windows and MS Office and witha Mac you can read the Office docs that people probably sends you, joins the OCS chats and still do all of your command line work.
Exchange compatability is also supported, via both Apple mail and MS Entourage, though I've not tried it, thank god we (the unix team) still run mail at my work!

In addition to that you have a GUI that for the most part is orders of magnitudes better than any of the the Unix or windows GUI environments in most respects, especially if you just want to do some work.
You wont have driver problems, multi monitor is just a matter of plugging in the next monitor and spotlight rocks for local search.

A *LOT* of unix professionals who have a choice are using Macs as their personal workstations/laptops now for precisely the reasons above.
i.e a unix wth a decent GUI and MS Office/OCS/Exchange and all the tools you need to administer unix hosts.

Also the cost of Macs is not that expensive when compared with similar wintel boxes, e.g. Lenovo or HP business class (as opposed to consumer class which are not well supported for more than 12-18 months) boxen. I.e. if you want a PC that is commercially supportable (e.g. you don't have to create a new OS image every few months for due to new hardware) then you need to pay similar prices to a mac.

Apologies for geeking out extra hard core, but there were a number of areas you touched on where I suspect a little info might help you out.