Heat treatment ??

If Scrap Yard knives are going to be made with different steels like INFI and SR101 will the knives have the same heat treatment as Busse and SwampRats?
If so will the SR101 have a differential or thu-heat treatment?

Sounds like a great time for Dan or Patti to weigh-in!

I think they are afraid of the scale <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I doubt Jerry will sabotage the HT for the newest addition to the Busse Company family

I did't think they would sabotage it, just wondering if they were cutting ANY corners ? or will this be a "Busse" knife in disguise.

well, it wouldn't even be INFI without the special heat treat.

I'm sure whatever the heat treat...it WORKS! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I can't wait for an oppertunity to test their HT'd S-7!

Well said, RF ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> The HT is what helps make Infi so indestructable ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

All Scrap Yard knives will be powered by Busse Combat's legendary heat-treating protocals which include, but are not limited to, their propietary use of martempering, interrupted quenches, and extensive use of deep cryogenic cycling.

In other words, you will get more bang for your buck with Scrap Yard than any other knife on the market!

Dan "The Dumpster Man" Busse

suh-weeeeeeeeeet....

SWEET..... Now lets bring on a 12" long X 5/16" thick X 2" wide HUNK of Busse heat treated SR77 high impact tool steel <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />, so I can beat the #@*& out of.
I have a dead oak tree in my back yard I need to take down.

I hear ya. Did you get your vote in?

Dan

I voted...it is up to you to do the right thing and give us the Bowie!

Votes are running tight with the Infi

Yes sir I did..... and it was a BIG vote <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I really like this! Thanks Dan <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

You Da Man !

You bet. I was just sorry that I could not get back to you dogs sooner. Too much time in the dumspter looking for a way to bring you great knives at great prices

Dan

Well you are starting out great Dan, I really like the Scrapper 6 LE. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Keep it up! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I do too, now I gotta get the CG version...with a Penetrator tip......if possible...

OH... can we get it in tan, green, or day glow orange any thing to help me find it when I sit it down in the woods <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />. I have too many black knives.

You have something against Italians?! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the kind words. I am on a mission

I hope that mission is the BOWIE!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> The Scrapper is a great knife by the way! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

INFI! INFI! INFI! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Andy - how about an Infi bowie at Yard prices ?!? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Gotta love compromises...INFI chopper? I'm in! WOOF! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Scrap Yard Chopper.....SR-77

SR77 & Infi BOWIES - the best of BOTH worlds!

I still just want the Sr77 Chopper...Got the InFi chopper on its way.

I hear ya. the trouble is that INFI is in such high demand it is like hens teeth to find in the Busse Combat Compound, but I have not stopped looking.

I do think if we come out with a Sr77 Chopper (dependant on the voting) we might give those hogs a run for their money.
In fact, in Texas they use Dogs to hunt Hogs, I have even heard they use Rats for bait.

Dan "The Dumpster Man" Busse

Dan - I'll bet that those SR77 BOWIES will sell like hotcakes !

Did I mention that I think the BOWIE should be the next model released ?!? Well, it SHOULD !

What KLINK said!!!

What they said! Bowie/Chopper...Dan, you have a mission...now go forth and bring the Chopper back with you!

We need both knives out Dan... To misquote from Wayne's World 2 "make them and they will sell"!!

I think I'm going to have to go see a Texas 'Hog' hunt some day, poor little down-troden Rats.. WOOOF!

Dan - it's international - the BOWIE should be the next model released !

See! Though the EDCers may have the electorial vote.....The BOWIE rules the popular vote!!!!

Now THAT'S Democracy !

BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE

American style? Next stop the Supreme Court? (only joking!)

Whoa GF I get the feeling you'd like the bowie next!

Stop beating around the bush and tell us what you really want

Dan

See how if you look at it upside down, it sort of resembles a Dogs head! How about a Bowie!

GF - that is really creative. Just for that, I think it should be the BOWIE next ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I sure hope Dan gets the idea that we think the BOWIE should be next!

I believe he is onto us! And deep inside he wants it too, he is just teasing all the Hogs and Piglets!

An SR-77 Bowie will most likely be tougher than anything but an S5 bowie; especially if stabilized with an interupted quench and martemper. After we get the mudder-gripped INFI skinners, I can't wait!

Oh you savage! Lets get the Bowie and test it!

Hello and Welcome Thom ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Good to see you here, though the BOWIE should be first! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Your knowledge of metallurgy will be greatly appreciated here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Where do you find information like that?

GF - If you are unfamiliar with Thom, he posts a lot at the Swamp. He knows a lot concerning metallurgy and is a sharp guy.

Well lets get some S-5 in here!

Dan - did you see that ? I don't know much about metallurgy, but maybe worth checking into for future runs ?

Dan, do you need help looking for scrap! I have a partial rail yard near my home.........just a thought!

Hey I am game for anything as long as we can meet the performance requirements. The RR usally uses junk steel but its always worth a look.

Thanks
Dan

Good move GF ! Get Dan over there checking out the RR steel, then really work on him and the BOWIE next. Brilliant!

If I could find some decent scrap steel...I would! O where O where can that Bowie be......but if they are now talking about what is next...do they already have them finished...or will they start making them after the vote? DAN....we need your input!

Maybe he fell in the dumpster and nobody found him yet !?!

I hope there is some good steel in that dumpster!

We will begin building after the vote.

Dan

When does the vote close though?

When the Bowie pulls ahead!

BOWIE BOWIE BOWIE!!! And the INFI shorty, but mainly the BOWIE!

Paul, I think you're right - the BOWIE should be next, followed by the Infi mudder. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> And since the DOGS are more honest than the HOGS concerning voting, it is only right that the BOWIE be the next release. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hehe, 'dogmocracy' in action, BOWIE next with maybe the shorty too...

Do a combo package....with a sheath with the Bowie and the mudder piggy backing on it!

Outstanding ideas!!!!!

I'm with GK and PK on that, nice!

I'm a mutt!!! YES! So much better than a pooch!

Now your opinion counts Paul! Dan, what kind of heat will Scrap Yard knives be able to withstand without lossing their temper. For cases like blueing them.....

Where do you stick the thermometer GF? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Stick a thermometer anywhere unfortunate on a 'dog it'll turn round and bite your arm off!

Paul - I was referring to a BLADE !!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Besides, a dog won't likely turn on its loving Master - like Dan ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

if you ever need someone to hold the flashlight for ya Dan,or spell you off for a back stretch,gimme a holler!I'll be yer bin buddy!

Go to site of companies that make and sell steel. Crucible Services is a good one (they make a few types of S7, some S5, and all of those weird wonder steels that won't take as thin of an edge or as tough of a beating as S7). Timken Latrobe and Diehl Steel have good info, too.

Thanks again Thom - your expertise is genuinely appreciated !

Thanks for the kind words, Tom. I'm having trouble with acclimating my etes to this forum's color setup. Guess if I were color-blind like the better dogs, it'd be no thaing.

So the Uber-Bowie is Dan and Patty's next creation? That's too cool. If I weren't so pigheaded, I'd feel shame for voting for the INFI mudder.

Now to make an IWB kydex sheath so I may EDC a Scrap Yard Knives bowie!

Hey Thom! I now have a Scrapper and I didn't even have to move to Canada! Good to see you in the pound..

Hi Thom,

In your display preferences, you can select a different skin for the forum. If that doesn't help, send me a PM and let me know.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

The USA is still open. We even have a few states where it's easy to acquire automatic weapons (machine guns). Come on over!

And congrats on your Scrapper!

Thanks, Trash Can! That'll make things mucho nicer!

So are Scrap Yard knives all differentially tempered, or are they thru-tempered?

Guessing through-hardened. Plain-Jane S7 is extremely tough; SR-77 should be even tougher (from the lil buzzwords Dumpster Dan drops, it should be comparable to Angelsword's heat-treatment results of S7).

Good question Stealther! I was getting round to asking that..

Hmm, Thom any thoughts on this equation, "thru hardening + prying = warranty claim" . Forgive the bad joke but.. can you safely (and possibly unsafely) pry with these?? I don't go out of my way to wreck knives but sometimes it (prying) is a task that needs doing...

You're not giving the steel enough credit. Weaker steels, such as 5160 and INFI, can pry all day and night. So can regular S7 and through-hardened SR-101. Most of what we've been told about differential tempers is b.s. Dan's Sister-in-law's company differentially tempers some of their SR-101 knives 'just in case' as SR-101 is extremely strong, but INFI is stronger and 5160 can be stronger.

Both S7 (weaker than SR-77) and SR-101 can chop into galvanized steel with barely any trouble (microchips on the edges which are fixed in under 5 minutes with a pocket-sized diamond paddle or in under a minute with a belt sander... ...guess how I know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ).

The reason Dan and Patti offer their warranty is because they know their knives can take strenuous and creative abuse. When your Scrapper 6 arrives, you'll realize (oh yeah, this is what knives are supposed to do.

Thom, who would you recommend that does make stong 5160?

Thanks Thom, good to get your input on that one! I love the idea that INFI is weaker than the sr77, that is a nice comforting concept! How's sr77's corrosion resistance compared to INFI and similar high end steel? I now have my Scrapper, have sharpened it up nicely and plan to start abusing it.. I mean 'using' it soon!

NO...I think you had it right the first time!...Or, when are you going to take that dog out for some exercise!?

Himalayan Import khuk's are pretty close to 5160(5150 maybe?) and are pretty tough.

GF my little Scrapper ate an old plank over the weekend, he finished it off today during sharpening... I'll take him for a walk this week (chores and wife permitting) and beat the brown stuff out of the countryside (at least little non environmentally damaging bits anyway!!).

One hint: You have two of his RD-9's. There are some swordmakers out there, too. One superfied my 5160 RD-9.

Ok, I was just checking about that...I didn't want to come out and say it....and what exactly does "superfied" entail?

None of the other high-end steels you'll see in big-priced knives are similar to INFI. The ones that have similar or higher corrosion resistance lack the impact resistance. The ones that have similar or higher impact resistance lack the corrosion resistance. They may have more or less wear-resistance or hardness.

Don't have my SR77 fix yet (heard a 10.5" bladed bowie may be out next, though), but I've put a wet S7 chopper back in its sheath for a weak with no visible rust. It also turned black where its edge touched staghorn sumac (a swamp tree in the USA), so it some things will corrode it.

Just remember to sharpen out any nicks in the edge should they occur, and lightly wipe your blade with mineral oil when not in use and it won't mind the constant beatings you'll give it.

A heat-treatment that transforms the steel into a mixture of lower-bainite (the tough and hard kind) and martensite (which it already was). Since through-hardened triple-tempered 5160 is insanely tough as it is, it was really just a waste of propane and electricity, but it's my waste of propane and electricity and now it's even tougher because its time spent in molten salts. To quote your neighbors:

Bump! Dan, wll you enlighten us? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have been meaning to have my RDs Austempered and maybe cryo-soaked... Thom, did your Bainitic RD9 give up any edge retention or abrasion resistance? Just curious. Or gain any, for that matter... Would there be any toughness gain in trying to get more bainite in S7 (i think it already forms some lower bainite when quenched "normally", ie mar-quenched, right?) Nice to see you here, by the way Thom...

Thom, thanks for the imput, great to have a guru around!

Thom, did you follow something you read or was this just an experiment you did, and is it noticably tougher, and did it compromise any other features of the knife?

It lost some hardness, but none I could tell. May have lost some abrasion resistance, but that's not something I look for a large knife intended for chopping, splitting, prying, and digging, so couldn't tell you. It could soft metals and hard plastics without losing a hair-popping edge (that Justin applied when he fixed the scales for me.. ..I couldn't put them back on correctly <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ). Don't know if regular cryo would do much for 5160 as it's a simple alloy. The controlled temperature drop in a pressure-sealed room type of cryogenic processing done by folks in Dan's family might do something.


It'll have some bainite in it no matter what you do. My oil-quenched and tempered S7 bowie (somewhere around RC57-58 hardness, I think) is my only knife which passes 'the scratching post' test. Our cats' old scratching posts are pile carpet glued to some pine. All soft stuff, but it can dent or chip 5160 (martensite and bainite), 52100, and every stainless under the sun.

Nice trying to guess whom you are. Initials C. E.?

BTW, Dan's the steel-knowing man and there's a lot of good steel info here, here, and here.

Some amazing work on the 3rd "here"

Both. Read about it, contacted a swordmaker who does such things to do it to my RD-9, and then used said knife to pierce, chop, and slice wood covered with carpet, plastics, and wires. Have also chopped into a galvanized steel fencepost with my former Ratweiler and S7 RD-9 (microchipping on both easily sharpened out).

Your question is a great one to ask. I don't know how many other people believed the 'toughness' hype about S30V, but I believed it and bought knives made with that steel. It's a great steel, but it's only tough if you're comparing it to untempered glass and pigeon egg shells.

But enough about this. Stealther still needs his question answered!

That could apply to about 60-75 people over there. And more every month as they share info and techniques like crazy.

cgeyer,

Your quote doesn't mention whether the knives will be through-tempered or differentially-tempered. Close, but no cgeyer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LOL.....that was good!

GF - I said it before, Thom is a sharp guy, always on the cutting edge and able to make a good point! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ouch!

Paul - Just a little slice of humor !