I think I killed my SOD

So I decided to re-profile my knife =] What do you guys think its my first trying anything like this I am happy with it but what does the yard think.











Also its SUPER sharp.

I'd let Snotpig see these pics and let him opinionate on them. I personally would keep on belt sanding with finer and finer grits to clean it up and make it even and smooth.

did you use a file?

You didnt kill it,you just personalized it.

I used this spinning wheel grinder my uncle has. It does not look that neat but it chops very well now, cuts through trees like its a hot knife through butter.

Ummmmm........Dude what did you do? Send it to Vic as fast as possible. That fine blade deserves better.

That spining disc is an angle grinder. I'm sure it can be cleaned up with a little work.

nah, it's fine. just need to rough up the rest of the coating as much to even it out.

get to usin, bud. GET!

The edge looks better in person but I am not too sure how to clean it up any ideas?

That is a very special grind. Hey I don't care about the looks as long as it cuts <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.

Use a stone, strop, sandpaper and a mousepad. It should clean up nice, a belt sander and a proficient user would be faster.

600 grit sandpaper on a thin mousepad or thick tablecloth. something that will only give slightly. nothing too soft.

How would you use a mousepad?

As long as you kept the temps down while removing the steel, you should be fine. If it works better for your purposes, then cool. You could probably make the knife cut even better by cleaning the edge up a bit using finer grits as Bushman said. You should pick up some bar stock and try to make a blade.

seriously the only thing that doesn't look good is the edge of the crinkle, not the knife. that's gonna wear with use anyway so don't sweat it.

That is a pretty rough looking edge, but if it performs the way you want it to, I say more power to ya!

I would use something a little more precise than a bench grinder next time, though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I can't comment on the technicalities of sharpening as my experience is limited to small pocket knives on a whet stone and a metal file freehand to cane knives. From what I've gather from your posts, it cuts through stuff BETTER than before. In my book, that's good to go. If you want to clean up the edge so it looks smoother and polished, I'd get some sandpaper and a mouse pad if I wanted to conquer it, or send it off to someone in the know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Its weird its a lot sharper but looks weird. I gave my self a gash from misjudging its sharpness at first.

That SOD isn't dead. Nothing there that can be smoothed out easily.

MMmmmmmm - Most Benchtop grinding "Wheels" and Angle grinders spin at Extreme high speeds often around 10,000 RPM and sometimes faster.

These speeds heat up blades VERY hot and VERY fast which can and will do damage to the temper pretty fast.

..... unless you have some sort of "Specialty" slow-grind wheel or similar.

But, most common Hardware store Bench Wheel Grinders or Angle Grinders are "High Speed" and VERY BAD for quality hardened steel blades

I am sorry to say, but there is a high probability you have done damage to the temper.

It is possible to grind on those tools without damaging temper, but it is hard to do and the results tend to be "Butchered" blades.

There is a reason why knife-makers use belt sander/grinders rather than Benchtop "Wheel" grinders. Belt sander/grinders use MUCH slower speeds and while they can create extreme heat, it is much easier to control.

I can't be for certain you damaged the temper. If you only lightly and for VERY short contact periods ground the blade and quickly dunked in water, "Maybe" you are O.K.

If you did damage the blade, "Maybe" you only damaged the edge and further "proper" grinding could remove the damaged areas.... But, I don't know how to advise on how to know if damaged and/or how badly damaged and/or what the best solution might be. You might need to contact the HIGHER end experts like "DAN" to see if he can advise.

I used to use a Benchtop grinder to sharpen my yard tools and machetes. The steel could/would glow red within 2-6 seconds!!!!!

I have to believe glowing bright red is reaching temperatures that could damage most heat treatments - at least near the edge.

I hope you did not damage your SOD.

You might have to check with Dan, but if that knife fails after using on that type of grinder, you may have voided the warranty (??????) - Again.... you might want to contact Dan for his advise.


Seriously, I am posting this with hope others WON'T try grinding on your knives with a high speed Benchtop wheel grinder or angle grinder.

???????????????

.

boots...


step away from the grinder/belt sander..anything that involves power....know your limitations.


that looks like something i would do

lol

Well, at least the steel is not discolored, so maybe it will be ok.

well, umm, i dont know what i should say.

ok...putting the whole messing with the tempering aside, I think we really need a clearer shot of the edge. If possible, take it outside, no flash, macro setting on, and zoom in. That is a very rough grind and shouldn't be hard to smooth out. If you want, you can smooth it out with sand paper and mousepad like mentioned. Just lay the sandpaper on top and strop away, the softness of the mousepad will conform to the edge and smooth it out. And if you want, I'd be happy to help out a fellow dog if you send it my way (don't worry I already have a SOD <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ).

Send it to Vic. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />After you get it back- get an Apex Pro sharpener and a good strop.Did the heat affect the temper ? Comments ? Best of luck with it-let us know.

Good point Vic.... I can't really tell from the pics, but coloration change is a good indicator of "Possible" damage. Not all color change is severe. But, NO color change is usually very good.

Did you see any glowing red when grinding? (***Not always easy to see in bright lit areas!)

Was/Is there any color change to the blade: yellow, blue, black?

It MAY very well BE O.K..... I don't want to cause unjustified alarm. It really comes down to HOW you did the grinding.


I am assuming you used a benchtop grinder with high speeds... If you kept the blade moving across the wheel at a good pace and kept the blade cool by dunking or by patience between passes, it might be fine, if just a bit chewed up.

I tried to be clear, but if you know what you are doing (or maybe by pure luck <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ), you can grind with a high speed grinder and likely not cause any damage.

My point is that that type of grinder is MUCH more likely to cause temper damage if used wrong.

When I refer to Benchtop grinder, this is what is commonly considered a Benchtop grinder (and is HIGH speed) - It is "generally" a VERY poor tool for working with fine grade quality steel such as knives and it CAN create heat VERY fast.:




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This is an angle grinder (also VERY High speed and also cabable of VERY fast creation of heat. - But, a "Hand" held tool. Great tool for demo and construction grade steel projects... in many cases. It is often used to "Cut" through steel, rebar, bolts or many similar applications - or grind them down. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> - But, NOT for knives or quality steel!):





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This is actually a slow speed stone wheel grinder specifically designed for sharpening (But, this Delta tool is NOT very good (NOT worth a FLIP actually! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbdn.gif" alt="" /> and I wouldn't recommend - I have one! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbdn.gif" alt="" />) - It is about a $40 tool. For the same money, you can buy a Harbor Freight or similar 30"x1" belt sander that will do WAY more for Way more projects and WAY better for sharpening with the right belts (or even with cheap belts for that matter!) - My point being: "Don't waste your money on this!":





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Anyway, again, it is possible that if there is damage that it might just be very Minor damage which can be ground off (????) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />


It is likely very hard for any of us to determine damage if any from the pictures. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />



.

I'll fix it if ya like

I learned a long time ago to stay away from the grinders.

If it were my SOD I would send to Vic and let him work it over.

Boots here to have balls, good for you. Just let Uncle Vic or one of the other dogs walk you through the rest of the way.

Good Lordy...Hope you aren't planning to sell that one. I've only done that to a machette once....remember...you can always take off more later , but you CAN't put more metal back. Every time you sharpen(to a degree)you REMOVE metal.I know its not a collectors piece , but OUCH!!

Yeah my camera is not very good.

also don't get so close to the object your taking a picture of.
Step back and use the zoom to get a clearer shot, use a tripod or something to help keep your camera/arm still, you should have better/clearer results.

Well, for using a stone grinding wheel it doesn't look too bad! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

That SoD took a real beating Boots! Maybe if you started on a smaller blade and worked up to the Son Of Dog Father. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The grind line is well different to say the least. If it was mine I would send a P.M. to Horn Dog and see if he wouldn't mind giving it a more beveled edge and smoothing out the grind line. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Boots I'll be honest with you,I am glad it is not mine. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" />

Peace.

Thank god there are those less paranoid than myself so that I may learn my wife would kick my [censored] if she knew how much I spent on a knife and then improved it. My wife is extremely patient with guns/knives. Grant us the serenity and courage to change the things we can. Especially if it is ourselves. Send that baby to someone who'll treat her right then go use that puppy in the field.

Does that now have the highly sought after super "penetrator" tip?




Nice

Oh man I blame Vic for making it look easy enough for anyone to do !!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

I once gave my MOD 4 Survival knife to a buddy to sharpen and he tried using a bench grinder and messed it up similar to yours, as luck would have it the temper didn't appear affected and it still keeps a great edge but it took me many hours of work with the wet and dry to fix it and make it look nice !!!!!

I future I'd stick to using sharpening stones and wet and dry paper, it may take a lot longer but ya can't mess up in seconds like you can with a grinder ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Vic uses the right tool for the job - which is most certainly NOT a bench grinder!

Hope Dan doesn't mind me using pics of a none Scrapyard knife but here is one of my customs that I converted to convex by hand last week using wet and dry.....







It still needs a little work and will never be as good as what Vic does but it proves that it can be done by hand.

after some smoothing out and polishing it should be just fine!
(though there def. is the possibility of HT damage)

I personally don't like my SY's to have thin of an edge (especially ones that big) because they see some abuse and are more prone to edge deformation than some other steels.

And I WOULD NOT worry about the warranty if i was you, that's for sure.
I would think (and hope) Dan would take care of you if anything were to happen.

other than that, I say use some hand methods and work on it some more.

OMG Man! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> It looks pretty hideous, but if you're happy with it, that's what counts.

A small suggestion for the future; hit up Youtube, and do a search for videos on knife sharpening. You'll get some good ideas on how to make a sharp AND beautiful edge, kewl?

I'm on the night shift at my regiment right now, so I don't have access to my pics. I'll post some pics of the Busse knives I've just finished sharpening this past weekend, if you want to see them.

Remember, I've only been belt sanding my blades for under a week, but I had the previous experience of how to properly hand sharpen them on stone and strops. My advice is that you start with the hand method, then graduate to the power method. But, as with any advice, it's yours to take or ignore. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey, if if works for you, I'm all for it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I don't see any discoloration and the coating doesn't look affected, so the HT may still be good. S7 is a cold and warm work steel. S7's hardness doesn't drop off significantly until you get past about 600 degF (a blue-purple color). I don't even see a straw-blue color on it, unless it was ground away after it discolored. I haven't tested it, but I'd assume that the coating would start to brown or melt at that temperature.

The safest way to smooth out the profile is to use a mousepad and sandpaper. I'd probably start with 100 grit and work my way up (100, 150, 220, 320, to about 400).
There are a bunch of guys who can probably describe this process much better than I, but here goes:
Just lay the sandpaper on the mousepad, lay the knife at the same angle as the grind you made and draw the knife back toward the spine of the knife. Try to keep the edge in contact with the sandpaper and try to keep the edge perpendicular to the backward motion of the knife especially when you round the belly of the blade lose to the tip.

It looks pretty bad but I'd say it can be easily fixed provided you didn't over-heat it. Good luck! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well thanks for the advice, its not actually as bad as it looks just my camera is really bad >.< on the side of Good news a very generous dog offered to fix it so its going to be sent to him. We learn through our mistakes and I have learned something very important from this Mr. SOD does not like MS. Bench grinder. I also learned even though it takes a lot longer to do it by hand its worth it.

I learned last year to never grind when (1) in a hurry, (2) tired, (3) hungry, or (4) agitated? Ask me how I know? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You can do a lot of damage with a belt sander, even more with a bench grinder. The other thing about bench grinders is that they cause more injuries than pretty much anything else. They can grab your knife and flip it right up on you if you are not careful.

I bet you could make your SoD look fantastic with a belt sander, just go slow and steady. I don't use a water bucket, I just feel the blade after each pass and never let it get past warm.

Good luck and I'm proud of you for having the guts to mod your SoD.

Thx VoxHog much appreciated.

I would strip it & try to recover it but go sloooooooooooooooow <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> good luck buddy.

That made me whince... ah... man...

At least you had the OO to try it... I know I wouldn't even contemplate it!

For what its worth when I was a kid, 10 to be exact, I thought it would be cool to sharpen a hunting knife on a bench grinder. I still have the marks of the knife getting away from me and the stone taking the skin off of two knuckles, the blade went down between the shield and the stone...now that was a lot of sparks. I remember it like a fourth of July celebration. By the time I got the grinder unplugged my blade had marks all over it like a city street map of downtown Chicago and on the top edge was this long groove the size of lake Michigan...yep good memories. There is never a dumb question and your new found friends in the Yard are always available for feedback.

Long Live the Brotherhood of the Yard

Dan

Yeah well even though I kinda messed up my knife, I was very fortunate that the Dog that will remain un-named for as long as he wish's will take a look at it so not all is a loss. The sad part is one I try something and it kinda fails I keep trying it because I would like to get good at this sort of thing just I'll start with some cheap bargen box knife and not a work of art like an SOD.

Thx,
Dan

Man, I am glad that I am not the only one that learned that way. I carry more than a few scars from "mishaps".

Boots, I am waiting to see what it looks like when you, or the generous dog, gets the blade profiled a little better/in line. I bet it will look great!

I will be sure to post plenty of pics, though my camera will still suck.

As long as the heat treat isn't bad and the cutting edge isn't to miss-aligned, it should be pretty easy clean up.

Boots, the edge really wasn't that bad, just a bit uneven and rough. It took a good edge, shaving sharp, so I don't think you hurt the heat treat.








It ain't perfect. Sorry about messing up the coating a bit at the primary grind line. It cuts like crazy and shaves my arm. It is good to go.

Nice work Vic!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Wow, what a transformation there HD. I think Boots will like it, and it sure looks like it will chop the hair of a fly's rear!

Flies have hair on their rear? Seriously, a big <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> to the master sharpener. I have a knife I can never get sharp. I need to get off my butt send it to Vic to whip into shape.

NIce edge. I am sure Boots will love how sharp it is now....

Yeah, flies have hair on their butt. When your scanning a p-dog field, flies are around too, and when the scope is set at 24x you get to see a lot of up close!

That actually looks really cool IMO, the way the grind marks fade out above the top of the exposed steel.

very cool...nice save, Vic.

Nice work HD...

My appreciation for this community just increased. Nice work Vic.

Way to go Vic! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Just goes to show there are still good guys out there. And talented!

Good job HD. How do you like the kalamzoo compared to delta? I thought about making the same switch but I figure they can't be that different. Trying to save up for a 2x72".

You are right, they aren't that different in use. They have the same hp and belt size and work equally well. My Kalamazoo is a bit smoother than my Delta.

Horn Dog thats amazing, Thank you so much for fixing my blade. I can't describe in words how much I love this yard and all the dogs in it. But really Horn Dog did a fantastic job, was the Hero of my SOD.

I am sure that there are quite a few dogs here in the yard who offered to help you out. That's just the way it is here. Don't be discouraged if your first attempt wasn't perfect. It was sharp, and that's better than some can do. Next time, if you are going to use a power sharpener, I'd recommend an upright belt sander and some practice on cheap knives first. I'll ship your SOD out tomorrow.

Thanks, I was actually of thinking of investing in a best sander and working on some cheap knives. Because I would like to learn to do this well as knives are a passion of mine I just think I won't work on a SYCO until I actually know what I am doing with the right tools.

Nice work as usual Vic <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Very nice HD. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> I hope I can get that good at sharpening on my Kalamazoo. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I have to get some cheap blades to practice on - any suggestions? I don't know where to go to get any cheap decent sized blades.

I learned on Tramontina machetes. They cost about $6.00 each at SMKW, and for me, at least, they are most useful on the property when I'm done.

Cool- Thanks. Maybe I will head to Harbor Freight and look for some machetes.

I didn't know Harbor Freight carried machetes. I've been doing a little finishing out back today.


The Scotchbrite wheels soften the finish and help blend the grind lines.

Boy that SOD looks nice Vic. A Top Notch Job! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, Kraz. The tan finish was damaged in several places, and I hated sending Boot's knife back with anything less than the best I could do. Fortunately, I just got in some brand new Blue Zirconia belts, so I just convexed it. Sure a lot easier to do than the NMSFNO was. The SOD finish was not nearly as rough and it grinds easily. Even after all that pile of SR77 dust, the CG weighs 15 oz, two more than my LE. It should chop well.

looks great vic

props for helping out boots! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If I hadn't, Mr. Pink, Knifeguy, or one of the other dogs with a belt sander would have. We have to look after our own, even if we do kid and laugh at each other on occasion. It is the way of the Yard.

Now that is a cool thing to do Vic! Not just redeemed the knife....you've transformed it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Horn Dog words can not describe how awesome of a person you are not to mention the master quality of your work.

Trust me, you do not want to look at Harbor Freight for machetes.....they are absolute crap. The handles wobble around and are ready to fall off. I can only imagine how crummy the steel is. Do as Vic says...get the $6 Tramontina from Smokey Mountain Knife works....I prefer the Bolo as well. They are great! Very tough, take a great edge, and will out chop any knife.....maybe a Mistress in certain woods could keep up...but that is about it. You can not beat $6. They are like the Mora of Machete's.

Good luck.

Congrats on the "new" knife Boots and don't let your experience put you off developing those "skills".... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Yeah just have to practice on something other then a SYCO.

If you don't mind me asking you HD, where do you get your Blue Zirconia belts from? I'm trying to find if there is a supplier that sells them for a better price than Lee Valley.

I get mine from Lee Valley. Not cheap. If you find a cheaper source, let me know.

I will take the advice here and get the better machetes. Thanks guys.

Tyger- I also get the Blue Zirconia belts from Lee Valley but I have also found different grits for them elsewhere. I think I now have 40, 60, 80 and 120 grit in BZ belts.

[censored], now I want to grind on a SOD so Vic can make me up one that looks like that, that is pretty sweet.

That looks good! Boots, I think you officially have the first full satin tan SOD, congrats!

Very nice work on that SoD! Looks great.

You wouldn't mind PMing where you get the other grits from, would you? I'd appreciate being able to get a more variegated array of grits than what Lee Valley offers in the BZ.

Vic is one of the good ones

Vic......that was really cool of you! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" />

I get mine from McMaster.com and MSCdirect.com. Both have wide variety of grit types and sizes. Shipping is super fast too.

Wow, very cool Vic. You make the Yard great!