Looking at making my first knife

So, I just bought myself a midrange drill press, and assembled it all last night. I've also ordered a very large supply of BZ belts from Lee Valley, as well as some cheap, very coarse belts from another company.

I plan to try and make my first knife; waiting back on a response from a nearby metal supplier. Hopefully either D2, BG-42, or 154CM. The supplier might be able to get S30V, but has to check on it. Since I'm thinking of using this as a kitchen all-purpose blade, a nice stainless seems the way to go.

My first attempt isn't going to be huge or anything; just a small blade, similar to the Muela Rebeco blade I own, just slightly more curved. Still haven't figured what I'd like to slap onto it for handle material though.

What type of drill bits should I be looking at for drilling through the steel, for creating the holes for holding the scales on? What speed should I be attempting to drill through the steel? The press can drill at speeds of 570, 900, 1390, 2050, and 3050 RPMs.

Once I've gotten the basic form, should I temper the steel? If so, how would I do it, since I've no knowledge of what this process involves.

Any help here would be appreciated.

Here's the process I follow (right or wrong) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
1. select the steel - type, thickness, width, & length (3/16" A2 for me) and order (order fully annealed steel. Annealing makes the steel very soft and easy to work. If it's not annealed, then cutting and drilling it will be very difficult if not impossible.

2. draw a pattern on a sheet of paper and cut it out (keep the cut-out knife sillohette, you'll need it later

3. see how the pattern feels in hand, repeat step 2 if if feels weird or doesn't fit

4. once the pattern fits and you are happy with it, lay it over the steel and trace using a sharpie (fine point works best for me)

5. remove pattern and admire and get a coke <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

6. go back to steel and attach cutoff disc to dremel tool

7. lightly trace the sharpie outline to make a scratched outline in the steel (this is to make the line permanent so the line won't wipe, wash, or burn away)


8. cut out the blade shape. some people use a vertical bandsaw, or drill holes around the perimeter, or continue using the dremel cutoff wheel (suggest fiber-reinforced if you want to use the dremel), I use a combo of the dremel cutoff wheel and a 7" metal cutoff blade attached to my bench ginder in place of a wheel. This allows for access to small inside curves.




9. sit back and admire your work. You're about halfway home. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

10. start grinding what's called the "primary grind". some people like to start this process by using a about a 1/8"-3/16" round file near the choil to make the "plunge cuts" even on both sides before starting with the belt sander. I don't do this (not sure why, though). grind first with the coarsest grit. Once you feel the blade grind is about 90% complete, start moving to finer grits. Once all the grind marks are gone from teh previous grit, move to a smaller grit belt. I like to end on about 240 - 320 grit before heat treating.




11. This is the point where I drill my holes. If the steel is fully annealed (purchased that way), this is not very hard (no pun intended <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) Use the SLOWEST (I use 160 rpm) drill speed you have (just about any drill bit will work (DO NOT use brad point drill bits) and alot of cutting oil (3 in 1, or any heavy lubricating oil). This will save your bits and make them last much longer. This is where I tap my handles because I use screws to fasten my scales to the tang.

12. heat treat - if you are using stainless, you'll want to send it out. stainless steels require a very high, precise heat 1900 degF for an extended period (35-45 min). I can do this, but I can only air quench. Texas Knife Supply can do this - I've heard their prices are reasonable.

13. Once the blade has been heat treated, you can hand sand the finish on it. Using 240-500 grit sandpaper.

14. Cover the newly finished blade with masking tape to protect the finish.

15. cut out handle material. I use 1/4" thick material for just about everything. 5/16" is just about as thick as I have ever used.

16. Match drill both scales to match the holes in the tang

17. Attach the scales and shape scales to match the shape of the tang. Finish scales accordingly.

18. Viola! Knife!



My first knife:

Nice!

Great post snotpig!


Tyger, you said you bought some cheap coarse belts, I would highly suggest premium belts (i.e. Norton Blaze), they cut faster and last longer. Like snotpig said, about 90% of time you'll be working with the coarse stuff. Ban said he goes through 15-20 coarse belts for every 1 fine grit belt. I didn't believe him at first, but I'm through my 4th coarsest belt and still on my 1st 120 grit.

Great Pics. i really like the blade with the Black Micarta? Is that what it is?
My first knife is about 19 pics down. Its the little one with no handles.
Tanto style blade made from S-7. Ill post some pics. If i can find them.
Again, Great pics!!!

Well, when I say that they're cheaper, I merely meant the price, not the quality. I ordered 30 x-weight belts, ranging from 60 to 200 grit. Combined with the 12 Blue Zirconia belts I ordered from Lee Valley, I figure I should be covered for coarse belts.

I just got back from buying a Dremel, with the metal cutting discs, as well as a couple Tungsten Carbide cutter bits, for cutting the knife design free of the stock. As well, I'll be borrowing my buddies 4" x 36" bench sander to help in removing some of the stock from the blade.

I won't be able to do anything until I get the call back from the supplier on what metal they can provide, and of course, the coarse belts come in.

BTW, Snotpig, thanks for the info; I like that small axe and Chefs' knife you made. Very cool! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Tyger, good for you. I would love to try my hand at some from a blank someday. SP, nice work!

Tyger, I too, am working on / starting my first knife. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I haven't bought a drill press yet - I'm using a friends but I might head to Harbor Freight this weekend and pick one up. I also want to get a Dremel.

I can't add much to Snotpig's post - He is a pro and i'm a newb...but I'll contribute a few things i have learned. Buy your steel annealed - it makes things way easier. I plan to send mine out for HT but you don't have to if you feel comfortable HT;ing it yourself. If you are going to send it out - make sure you know what steels they will HT. BOS won't HT carbon steels anymore.

Some things I do that I can add to SP's post - I draw a center line around the perimeter of the blade so when I am grinding I can use it as a guide to get the grind even on each side. A trick I learned is to use a drill bit the same diameter as the steel thickness your using...for 1/8" steel - trace around the edge with a 1/8" drill bit while the bit and blade are on a perfectly flat surface - that should trace a line at 1/16". Turn the blade over and repeat in case the steel thickness isn't exact. I also trace my drawing on Masonite so I can keep the templates for later use.

Now, I have a question <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My fist knife is at the point where I need to put the blade grind on it and i want to do a full flat grind...It is 1/8" thick - How do I determine the grind angle to get it even on both sides?

Thanks and good luck to you Tyger - Lets both keep in touch and follow each other's progress. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I will help you with anything I can. I am using 1080 steel and as i mentioned, I have my blade profiled and am about to start the blade grind. Fun stuff! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Good luck back at you, KS.

I was considering doing an angled grind myself, but decided to try a full convexed edge instead. We'll see what we see, eh? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

To do a full convex grind, don't you have to first start with a high or full flat grind and then round it off to convex? Not sure that's the only way of doing it, but that's one way I have read about... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, I've got some reading and brain picking ahead of me, no doubts about it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Grind first, heat treat later, certainly makes sense. But that approach has it’s plusses and minuses.

Years ago I knew a Sword Smith who worked with stock removal rather than forging. This was in the early days of the SCA. Back in the late ‘sixties, swords, daggers, halberds, and other period weapons were not thick on the ground and ripe in the pod.

My buddy the Smith would cut swords to shape, and then grind the shaped stock. At that point the blades were sent to a heat treat specialist. One of his blade blanks—intended to be a double edged straight sword—returned from the heat treat as a double edged scimitar. As scimitars go, it was a wonderful sword. But it was a far cry from what he had intended. The best we could figure out was that the double edge grind had not been consistent. There was enough difference between the way that one edge was ground, compared to the other edge, that the heat treat—um—treated the two edges as different entities. One edge contracted. The opposite edge expanded. The result was something more likely to be carried by Saladin than by Cour-de-lion.

My buddy had made a deliciously curved sword which was a happy accident. Nevertheless, it was a failure in terms of the quality control that a smith needs to maintain when shaping a blade. When you cut and grind a blade blank, and send it in for heat treat, you should not to be shooting dice. It is a Very Good Thing to learn sufficient grinding skill that whatever blade you make will end up the way you intend it to finish. If you cut and grind one knife and the heat treat specialists return you a different knife, you need to work on your grinding skills.

Hey SP, you ever think about adding a 3/4 to 1 inch wide piece to the back (poll ?) of the little ax? That would make it a good light hammer device and also add some weight not to mention add a little larger area to choke up on the back to use it as a skinner. I think It's a GREAT design, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> and when they go on sale for $19.95, but wait if you order in the next 10 minutes... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />let me know!! HEY DAN have you taken a GOOD look at Snot Pigs little ax..hint hint hint come on folks join in. Ya never know.

I few points I forgot to add:

Always wear a respirator, NOT a dust mask, when grinding or cutting the steel. Black boogers and flem are not fun nor is the stuff that makes it into your lungs.


Always wear saftey goggles or glasses. An errant spark, steel shard, or knife blade and wreak havoc on the eyes. (BTW I use hearing plugs/muffs as well)

Keep a bucket/cup of cold water and an old towel handy while grinding the blade. This is for cooling the blade between passes on the sander and drying it off before sticking it back on the sander.

Don't grind in flip-flops, crocs, sandals, or high heels <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Sparks and shards of steel can easily get in these and bury themselves deeply into your skin.

Don't grind in polyester or any other "plastic" garmets. Sparks can melt thousands of tiny holes in it and ruin it. I've got a North Face TKA100 pullover that's been ruined this way. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I now wear a welding apron during this operation.

To do a flat grind, I start with about a 45 deg angle and walk the grind up to the top of the blade. I usually will make a few passes on each side then flip. This is to ensure that both sides match throughout the whole process. (If I screw up on one side, then the other looks the same way and then it doesn't look so much like a screw-up. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) You'l find that grinding on one side will seem easier than the other (right hand vs. left hand guidance). This is normal and will (hopefully) get easier with time.

Convexing is not too difficult. Yes, you'll probably want to start out by flat grinding a little. It's faster/easier to remove stock when you're pressing hard against the platen. Then remove it and slack belt the rest of the way. Be careful to watch the edge when convexing. It is easy to grid more on the edge (bottom) of the blade than the spine since it's out of view and many of the grinder belts run top to bottom. This can ruin a profile in seconds.

Usually when I grind, I set my platen back about 1/4" or so away from the back of the belt. This gives an ever-so-slight convex to the grind, but still allows me to press against the platen.

I hope this helps. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I wish Dan would produce a small hatchet - I'd certainly be in. The timing's never been right for me to score a Ratchet on the sec market. He's certainly welcome to use this design - one that was inspired by the Busse/Swamp Rat design.

Keep it up guys, you are going to end up talking me into some serious toys to hurt myself with!

I got a question, has anyone ever used steel blanks or heat treating from Jantz Knife Supply? I see they are here in OK, and with school getting to be out I could make a little road trip down there.

[censored] and I was really hoping to wear those new pumps! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seriously though, all good advice, some common knowledge, some not so common. Sadly, as I start to think about it, common knowledge isn't so common with todays' society. Good points, and definitely will be stuck in my head as I begin my endeavour.

Thanks SP. Good info. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I kinda gave up on the full flat grind and just wound up doing a full convex. The Kalamazoo grinder I have doesn't make it easy to do full flats and hollow grinds are impossible because there is no exposed wheel. I think I see a KMG in my future <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />. For now, I'm going to stick with sabre and convex grinds and may try full flat or high flat again.

I got my knife to the point that it can be sent in for heat treat - so, that should take a week or two and i expect Tyger to catch up to me now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Someone asked about Jantz Supply - They are one of the top knife making supply shops. Go for it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

SP- I am wearing a carpenters respirator - single filter....Is that sufficient or should i invest in one like in the picture you posted? Here is the link to what I have: http://www.amazon.com/AO-Safety-95190-Wo...7435&sr=8-4


Thanks.

It looks pretty good. I would get a supply of cartridges and change them regularly, if you plan on using it a lot. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Here's some info on respirator filters:

Filter Class ...Filtering of Airborne Particles .....Oil Resistance
N95 ...............Filters at least 95%.....................No oil resistance
N99 ...............Filters at least 99%.....................No oil resistance
N100 .............Filters at least 99.97%.................No oil resistance
R95 ...............Filters at least 95%.....................Some oil resistance
P95 ................Filters at least 95%....................Strong oil resistance
P100 ..............Filters at least 99.97%................Strong oil resistance

I use the P100 in my shop to paint, strip paint, sand blast, grind, cut wood, etc. With it on, I can't smell anything - which is good. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Getting a good seal is key - this is where most dust masks fail.

With the exception of the high heels, I've done every one of those things. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Usually I did it because I was in a hurry (read impatient).

great safety advice...

I need to have Jeff just go ahead and make me some sheaths.
Were practically neighbors and he makes some awesome looking stuff.
Ive got a couple of more Busse Kin thanks to Vox Hog!!
A #3 Bird Dog and a #10 Scrap muk. Thank you sir!!
#7 would just finish me off. HA HA!!
Jeff!! Iam sending a order your way here directly.
Been spending too much time just buyin a few pieces.
Like its said in the yard," You need some PANTS"!
Again, Thanks for welcoming me in the yard.!
I can see right now, the dog bucket is about half full
of Kool-Aid.!! HA HA!!!!!!!!!!

Yea, don't ruin those pumps LOL

We all wear heavy leather aprons, respirators like in the above picture and full face shields and leather gloves...there’s just something about a steel splinter to wake you up

Best of luck

Dan

Hmmm, you know, maybe I don`t need to buy a respirator. After all, I already have this one, with plenty of spare filters!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/loopy.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Go on; I know somebody wants to say it!

Hey, look at it this way - you'll be safe from steel dust, Micarta fumes and Anthrax. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Anthrax...lol. Definitly won't have to worry about any tear gas.

Aaarrrgghh! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

So I called up Russell Metals today, and they had forgotten all about getting my quote for the steel!

So I asked them when can they supply a quote, and they said it wouldn't be until next week! For Pete's sake, it's driving me nuts, wanting to try making a knife, but getting stonewalled over a quote from the only local supplier, who doesn't seem to give a [censored] about me.

I wouldn't be so upset over this, if they at least seemed apologetic over forgetting about me, but they weren't.

Anyone know some good steel retailers that'll ship to Canada?