Primitive Fire Making

This weekend Cloak and I went on our usual hike into into the forest.

It was a beautiful Saturday Morning. Good to see Portland having some decent weather know.



It was very hot but, fortunately we were in a forest and under the shade. This made everything much cooler and we had a little breeze once in awhile





With the allotted time that we had we really couldn't do anything too extravagant as making a large shelter. During Midday, I had to go to a 2 hour long college conference meeting. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

So we ultimately decided to try a little bit of primitive fire making.

We traveled fairly light. Cloak brought is small backpack and I just brought my best.

Here's the two of us prepping. I'm putting on my vest and Cloak is checking his gear.



As you can see, the structure of our shelter is still there. However, all the leaves and branches have dried and been blown off.



On to the fire making.

At first I decided to grab a piece of cedar and started a bit of hand drilling. This didn't really do much except hurt my hand. I was able to get the wood fairly hot, but not hot enough to make ashes.

Cloak tried this, too. He then though that he would have a better change with a bow drill.

After that both of us started to make our own bow-drill assembly.

When I made my bow, I used a really short piece of iron wood. It really didn't work very well so I didn't go any further.

Cloak, on the other hand had made a perfect bow and drill for the task.

It worked splendidly and Cloak was able to get very hot ashes.





You can see here, how well Cloak was able to drill in the wood.



Here he goes at another attempt. Notice that you can see the smoke coming from the wood burning.

"This is only kind of smoke that teens should be smoking"-- Cloak <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />



After he had his go with the drill, I, too tried it out.



[img]http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee292/The_Aaij_1/DSC_0117-1.jpg[/img]

Here's the result of the drill tip and how burnt it is.

[img]http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee292/The_Aaij_1/DSC_0115-1.jpg[/img]

I really got the thing smoking.

Because of the short time that we had, we really weren't able to get a fire going. We, were however, able to get smoke and really burnt ashes of wood. If we kept going longer we probably would have been able to get a coal and start a small fire.

This and also it was our (well at least mine) first time trying the technique and getting some results. Both of us kept messing up when using the drill.

At the end of everything we went through a bag of Sour Patch fruit candy to keep us motivated. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[img]http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee292/The_Aaij_1/DSC_0104-4.jpg[/img]

Though next, weekend we'll have more time as I won't be needing to go to a darn college meeting. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the pictures.
Looks like you carried much less knives than usual.

What college you guys trying to get in.

Nice post, Sharp! Good to see you had decent wheater there, as here in north east of Italy we had 2 days of raining, without any pause!
I guess you could add any dry and soft material, next to the drill tip, to obtain fire. Ciao, Michelangelo

Mac,

I'm still looking.

The Colleges that went to the conference were Whitman, Occidental, Oberlin, and Colorado.

I'm just looking for a good liberal arts college.

I'll let Cloak answer for himself.

Actually, we still carried most of our knives. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

We had our thigh rigs. I' still had my FBM. Cloak had both his Ranger and RTAK. We still had our RMDs. In addition to the various folders and leathermans that we carry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Michelango,

Thanks for the comment.

Before this weather it was also really rainy. If you've seen our previous threads the forest doesn't look like the pictures above. It looked like a rain forest. All wet and muddy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

And thanks for the tip. That's what the notch in the drill hole was for. The wood was already dried cedar from our last chopping extravaganza and was very good wood for burning.

The notch was their so that we could place some dry flammable material to get it going. However, we weren't able to the wood hot enough to get a coal and start a fire. We didn't drill long enough. Though next time, we'll should be able to get a smaller fire going.

Learn from mistakes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Nice vest <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And nice pics. Lucky me I can´t work this week muahaha hurt my righthand but I´m lefthanded yeeehaw I´m gonna spend all week in the bush <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I have a very similar vest set-up. Mine is based on the last generation South African combat vest, which is in a nice sheeple friendly African savanna brown color. I got the vest idea stuck in my head since reading "tunnel in the sky' by Robert Heinlein.

My wife rocks at making a fire with a bow-drill. I can make smoke, and curses.
One of the guys that works for Tom Brown showed us how, at Wild West City a few years back.

Great pics, Sharp. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Looks like you guys did pretty good. I don't consider myself an expert by any means, but I have started many many fires with hand drill and bow drill, and I do have one suggestion. The notch looks just a little shallow and off center, it may not seem like a big deal but the coal dust has to have a good place to collect and heat up. I usually make my notches 1/8 of a pie in shape and cut it almost to the center, that seems to work best for me. I need to get out and get some practice myself. It's been a little while since I've had time to work on my own skills. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Just keep at it, you'll get it and when you do, you'll be hooked! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Nice... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

great looking pics bro

I really need to learn bowdrill firemaking

Sharp you and cloak are very lucky to live in such a great state. California is nice but i hate all the laws. What realy sucks is i live in a apartment with no backyard. So its not like i can practice this stuff in a parking lot.

The woods are far from the city i live in and if i got cought doing some of the stuff you guys do i would prolly get life in prison. Stupid strict laws.

Simon,

SWEEEET!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

What are you gonna bring to destroy some trees and make some shelters with?

Roo,

Both techniques are really hard. The bow-drill was much easier, but the hand-drill would take at least 10-20 minutes worth of straight drilling. Hand-drilling is a really meditating experience that I haven't full appreciated yet.

After Cloak got home, after our trip, he was almost able to get a coal going.

RW,

Thanks for the suggestion. Both of us thought of you suggesting that we try it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Can you get a pic of a well-done notch. This was pretty much my first time trying and getting somewhere with both techniques. I really didn't have any idea what I was doing, including making my bow ( I made a bow awhile back that worked really well, but though a shorter one would be easier)

Nick,

Thanks, You should join our endeavors someday. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Leatherface,

Bowdrilling is really fun but takes a lot of practice and patience as many of you have stated. I gave up many times when I was pretty darn close.

L4D,

Awww don't say that. There are many really nice wooded areas in California. If you can, you should go to the woods, even if it is a little far away, and find a nice spot, far away from the trail. A nice secluded area to set up your HQ. Also bring a friend along and some ice cold beer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Technically, I think what we do is also a little out of our jurisdiction. However, the area that we are in, is set for a Private Road. I don't believe Forest Rangers patrol that area too much. Lots of bikers, hikers, etc go through the trails.

I was lucky enough to find our secret location. I doesn't seem like anyone has looked or ventured to it yet. I hope no does for a long time, too. With the grow that's been going this spring, we almost missed our entrance on the way in.

hmm Sharp, that reminds me. We should do some shots that show what are area is like. I mean, its kinda been shown in other stuff, but next time the weather is nice we should do some shots of the camp, the approach, and also what can be seen from the path below. The camp is up on a ridgeline between two main trails, both of which are steeply inclined. This means that bikers are either killing themselves to get up the hill, or zooming down it at around 100mph. In either case, they're unlikely to notice us in our camo/earth-tone cloths; they also don't have a direct line of sight. Walkers might hear us, but most of them are 40-something women out for a powerwalk with the girlfriends, so they're always talking loudly and completely unaware of their surrounding. I'm confident that even if someone found us, we could show them that we never litter (a rare virtue) and never cut anything larger than a 1" branch from a living tree. That shelter that we built was entirely out of dead wood. The knives we carry are also legal in Oregon because they're not dirks or daggers, and they're not concealed. Also, both our families have full knowledge of what we're doing, so it we're not worried about the "i'll have to inform your parents" ploy.

In general, I'm also confident we could get away with practicing fire-starting. So long as we don't get larger than the tinder stage, and take precautions to clear the area first, I don't think the smoke would be visible.

Sharp, Here's some pics of my primitive kit. A lot of the fire boards have been practically drilled through from use, but maybe the pics will help.

Enjoy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

RW,

Thanks,

See, those fire boards are were much more burned in than ours. And you have had a lot more practice than we do. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Well, my weekend are booked. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> (Cloak, ya with me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)

Guess we need to keep the drill going for a longer time.

I see cottonwood might work. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> (if we can find some, that it)

We've been using mostly cedar wood, which Cloak has suggest is really good stuff. I don't doubt that cause we were able to get it smoking.

Also, did you make some of the cord? If so what did you use? I think our next little task, after we get a little better a bow-drilling, is going to try to make some cord using various natural fibrous materials. If you have any suggestion, please do tell. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Cloak,

Sure, I do have some shots that I can post here or on a different thread.

You should be using your camera more and uploading the pictures. Lazy Cloak... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Sharp, Cottonwood and Cedar are the two best woods I've found, I've actually used more Cedar myself because we are surrounded with Cedar trees. We have a local state park called Cedars of Lebanon. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Ours are Red Cedar though. I've experimented with several other woods, some like Pine are too soft, and others like, Peach, Oak and Maple are too hard.

Yes I have made some cordage from a few different fibers, like Thistle, Oak bark, Rafia, Milkweed, Cedar bark, and I've tried a few various grasses, vines and other innerbarks. It takes as much or more time finding the right materials as it does learning to make the cordage, but you learn a lot along the way. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have to admit that I use leather or nylon strings on my bows most of the time. Most plant cordage just can't take the stress of the firemaking process.

It really does take a lot of time and dedication and stamina to get the coal going good, so don't give up to easily and make sure and take long level strokes on the bow.

Rainwalker,
That is quite the impressive gathering of gear!

Thanks, I've always enjoyed working on my skills, and I used to go to my kids school every so often and demonstrate firemaking and other skills. I just wish I had more time to spend on my primitive skills. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Time for that is really hard to come by these days... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

There was a time when I really considered moving off the grid, I don't think the wife and kids were really sure what to do with me back then. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I kinda miss those days though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Hand drilling can be done with a single person, with luck and endurance. But primal peoples commonly made it a team effort. One person would spin the drill till he got tired and started slowing down. Then another would take up the task. There are two of you. Try trading off on the hand drill and see if that helps.

That's a great idea! I've seen it done, but never done it myself.

Make it a team effort. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It's still quite a hard thing to do even with 2 people. Thought it would be pretty satisfying to get a fire from just your hands and a stick. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

RW,

You say Pine is too soft, and I don't disagree with that, it is, but have you tried using fat wood for the drill and/or board?

I think it would actually make everything nicer as the wood itself is a little sticky, even if the bow tension is too tight, the stickiness might help it.

I know the stuff burns really well... a little too well.

Sharp, The Fatwood is worth experimenting with, however I believe the dried sap in the Fatwood will cause the spindle to glaze over which will reduce friction and keep it from getting enough good hot dust. Glazing can be a major problem. The spindle needs to produce the friction that ultimately creates as much coal dust as possible.

Another thing about glazing that's worth mentioning, it can happen even with the right kinds of wood, sometimes from applying too much pressure. If you get glazing (a shiny polished look to the spindle or bowl/socket)take your knife and scrape off the glaze. I've even added a slight amount of dry dust or fine dry sand (just a pinch) to prevent glazing.

RW,

Thanks for pointing out glazing. This did happen to Cloak and I several times during our practice with the bow-drill. We got these really high pitched, not to mention really loud, noise coming from the fire board. We though it wasn't a big deal, but now we see what it actually is.

Thanks!!

Actually a high pitched squeaking is very common and lets you know your making some good friction. You can really stir up a good bit of noise when you get that spindle turning good and making some good smoke. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I usually start out with moderate pressure and good long strokes at a good even pace, and then when I start getting some good smoke, I lighten a little on the pressure and speed up a bit on the strokes. You want a lot of smoke before you stop.

Also, make sure and lock the hand with the handhold against your leg so that the spindle doesn't move around too much, that'll help you keep your strokes level and even too.

Just remember loooong even level strokes, it's very easy to go too fast at the start and make the strokes too short.

One of these days when I have time, I want to do a tutorial complete with step by step pics from making the parts all the way through to the fire itself. Maybe someday... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Interesting reading, nice tips <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

SHARP
Often bring my FBM, DFLE AND Linder machete when I get out. If the zombies comes, one big knife isn´t enough muahaha <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Gonna test my khukuri and some other knives today, just for fun

Did a try before making fire but no luck <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> got smoke but no fire. have to try later on when I don´t have bandage on my right hand. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

This one was new for me, in swedish but with pics and a video
Indonesisk eldpistong

in english
http://www.onagocag.com/piston.html

Those fire pistons are really cool, but quite a challenge to make correctly. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

They seem to work really well once made right, and you get used to the technique.

Thanks for find that Simon,

The fire piston is an interesting concept. It might be fairly impractical in a survival situation, though. It would take a really long time to make all the materials. It seems that design needs to made perfectly in order to work.

Maybe not easy to make one out in the woods but it´s a "must try" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Or you can buy a pre-made set. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I seriously doubt I could find the right kinda wood to make one of those, though. Let alone, coat it in black.

I ment try it at home <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I will see if I can make a working one.

I've got some fat wood that I can use as tinder. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Here are plans for a cheaply made one you guys might like. I’ve never tried one, but it looks interesting. My Dad has a metal lathe, so I’d like him to help me make an aluminum one sometime. With extra O rings and some PJ, you could make indefinite fires in the wild.

It's seriously gonna be hard to make one of those.

Nice Andy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sharp: yup <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />