more fire fun!

Since my first fire, I've experimented a little more and I've learned how crucial it is to take smaller steps. Before after I got a small fire, I'd throw in the big pieces of wood right away. I was more patient today thanks to some snacks.



I tried out the cotton ball and vaseline last night and it was great, however tonight I wanted to try without it.


This time I used my favorite knife. The res-c handle was really comfortable and the choil helped with the smaller tasks. Ban helped me reprofile the edge by taking down the shoulder and thinning the angle, it cuts a lot better!


I found an old piece of wood in the backyard to make shavings and curls.


After that, I gathered some bigger pieces.




The striker that comes with the firesteel is pretty much useless so I used my Gossman PSK (also reprofiled).


2-3 strikes later!




Cool pictures.


[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/MRpilot/fire/IMG_0252.jpg[/img]

And it only took me one bottle of heineken! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/MRpilot/fire/IMG_0254.jpg[/img]

Seems like you made out okay. Is your camera's color balance off? It looks like the base of the flames in the second to last picture are purple. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Something you might want to practice is laying a more structured fire, which can really speed things along. Some people advocate a "teepee" style, others are into log cabins or other pseudo-architectural forms. As long as the fuel is stacked in such a way that it surrounds the initial flame as much as possible without obstructing air intake at the base, you're good. The point here is that if you have your fuel all arranged and ready to go, you can work on getting your flame using a scrap of bark or something as a work surfface and then put it into the ready made "hut". The fire should grow much more quickly this way than building it "openly" , which is losing a ton of heat to the air.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Burning stuff is great fun. There is always a thrill at awakening a lively fire using nothing more than a bit of applied metallurgy or friction. It is vastly more interactive than using chemical fuels, more satisfying, more "I made this happen". I suspect that some people I know think I'm a pyromanic.

Nice Firemaking MRpink! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I bet those Cheetos would work pretty good for getting a fire going too! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />



The color of the fire may be due to the chemicals in the wood. It looks like pressure treated wood, which means it has toxic chemicals like Arsenic in it... Be careful burning that stuff... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I could be wrong though on the type of wood, I'm always hesitant to burn any building material type wood, I prefer to stick to natural wood whenever possible. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Great Post.

My wife and I once went to a friends bar-b-que. Just happened to see the flames cooking the meat...and wouldn't you know it they were green and the smoke was blue. Looked in the pit and he was cooking with a 35 year old table that had been painted about 100 times. We didnt eat...that much <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the tips, next time I'll arrange the tepee/hut first.

Yeah, I know about the wood. I wasn't sure myself if it was chemically treated or not so I was extra cautious. Still had a lot of fun.

I don't have to much natural wood around. I did harvest a bunch of fresh wood when the city came around cut down some trees, but they're still green.

nice job!
I've been making some fires in my fireplace to practice gathering materials and preparation.
(though I use a lighter)

I really want a ferro rod.

I've been trying to get a friction fire for about two weeks now!
it's only a matter of time.
I think it's just that I don't have enough endurance.
I'm using white cedar for the spindle and baseboard and it works well.

My friend had a "festival" in his town were a guy representing a native American Indian was and he taught me a lot and showed me how he made fire with his set up.
my teacher also said that anyone who makes fire using primitive techniques gets extra credit, and we can bring in our stuff and do it for the class one day! pretty cool huh?
It's been a good motivation for me.
also, it's just a cool learning experience.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

sorry for kind of getting off topic a little and highjacking your thread pink.

Oh My goodness! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> I think I would have lost my appetite real fast. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" /> No telling what kinda fumes were getting into that meat. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" />


MRpink, I figured you probably knew and after all you weren't actually cooking anything, just practicing fire making. I can't imagine living where there's not much natural wood around. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Don't worry about it, I don't mind. I jack threads all the time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Friction fire is next. When I visited mtnfolkmike, she showed me his setup and it was cool. I don't know wood to use around here.




I also made sure the wind was blowing away from me and my stuff just in case. Yeah, I definitely wished I lived closer to the woods, but many places like the Santa Cruz area isn't to far of a drive. I'm just to busy with school and work to be driving around to start fires. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

How far are you getting with your friction fire? Are you doing the hand drill, bow drill, or plow method? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'd like to try the bow drill method first as it seems like the easiest, and once I get that down I'll try the hand drill and plow. I don't even know what kind of wood to use as the board, drill, and bow. I have a friend who lives not to far from me that has a bow drill setup, I should ask him where he gets the wood. Would a piece of 2x4 work as the board?

I’m sure some of you have read of Ishi of the Yahi tribe, the “last wild Indian” in California. He spend his life hiding in the hills until the last of his family died. Ishi finally gave up and walked into the lowlands, expecting to be killed. Instead he was shipped to San Francisco and given to the care of an anthropologist named Alfred Kroeber. (Alfred and Theodora Kroeber had a child that science fiction readers may recognize—Ursula Le Guin. Traces of her anthropological home life are all over her stories.)

One thing Kroeber learned from Ishi was how to start a fire. IIRC Ishi taught him the fire drill method, spinning the drill by hand, not with a fire bow. Under Ishi’s careful tutelage, Kroeber learned to start a fire by rubbing sticks together. He took his new knowledge to school with him. He told a class of anthropology students that he expected them to learn to start a fire old school. In fact, any of them who failed at the task could not expect a passing grade. Then Alfred demonstrated. And demonstrated. And demonstrated. Without Ishi there to help him, he couldn’t get a fire started for the life of him.

The moral is, practice. Practice before your life—or your dignity—is on the line.

I don't think your average Home Depot variety 2*4 (1.75*3.75....) would work. I have gotten fire from using white pine, but it was carefully selected and air dried. I would be very interested in being proven wrong but it wouldn't be my first choice.

Head over to the doweling department instead and see if they have any poplar. Poplar works pretty good for bow drilling because it is soft and, for lack of a better word, fuzzy. A piece of 1 inch should serve as the hearth, and a piece of 1/4 inch should work as the spindle. Use your favorite knife to flatten off the bigger piece so it lays flat.

The bow itself isn't too materials-demanding, it can be any sort of stick. Some people have more luck with an actual "bow", that is, the stick is springy and pulls tension. I prefer my technique, which uses a fairly stiff stick, and I apply the tension with my thumb as I'm drilling. You'll prefer one way or another, a lot of it probably just depends on what you first gain proficiency with. The string can be just about anything if you use the "egyptian" winding: that is, to tie the string to the spindle, and wrap it in both directions several turns. This makes it impossible for the string to slip on the spindle.

I had a thread somewhere in this forum about bow drilling for fire, it talked a lot about notch geometry and technique.

And yeah, fire-from-friction is not easy. Quite a lot of it is based on discovering what you can get in your area that will work. Don't be discouraged! Your first step is to get fire using very good materials (kiln-dried poplar dowels, cotton lint tinder) to learn the technique and to build confidence. Once you have confidence in your ability to make it work with those materials, then is the time to ramp up the difficulty by using "found" things.

I'm using the bow drill method.
I'd really like to try a different spindle.
it seems my spindle burns more than my baseboard.

I'm using cedar bark and cattails for tinder.
I just can't get a burning ember.
I try to conserve my energy as much as possible, but even when I do I never have enough in the end and I loose my concentration and the the spindle either ends up flinging out or I just can't stand the pain anymore.

I'm on medication daily and I don't eat or drink all day so I think it's also contributing to the muscle cramps I've been getting from it.
normally my back cramps and sometimes my fingers start twitching and cramping.

I wonder if I just went REALLY slow for a lonnnng time if I could get an ember?
a hand drill works like that right?

the bow was the hardest part for me BTW.
I had to figure out a way to make it so that I could tighten the string when it loosens.

it's def. been fun.
I think I'm going to get an ember soon if I keep trying.

maybe I should take some pics?

Good going EMF! Like you, I tried FOREVER before i got my first friction fire. A lot of it is making sure your set-up is good. You're right to be using cedar, but I only use it for my base-board. It seems to be pretty soft stuff and won't grind down your spindle too much. In my experience, the key is to make sure that you spindle is harder than your base-board.

Like you, i inadvertently turned my spindle into a projectile countless times before I got the technique down. The solution, I've found, is to make sure your block-piece that holds it down has a nice, deep hole bored in it. If there is a deep pit in your block, your spindle ain't go'en nowheres. I tried all different varieties of wood, but that never really worked out for me. My current block is a big hunk of Douglas Fir bark. Initially, the spindle tore through the block and it looked as through it would drill all the way through. Once the top end of the spindle and the block became smoothed, however, the drilling stopped and the bark seems to be holding up pretty well. I'm not sure if you can get thick, coniferous tree bark in your area, but its worth mentioning. I've also heard that soap-stone and limpet shells work.

In terms of endurance, i wouldn't worry. Basically, this is the conventional wisdom: if it takes you such a long time that you tire out, you're probably doing something wrong (as I was). You can potentially get a coal in no time at all, and skilled users can get a coal in under 20 seconds (I'm probably not to that point yet). So if you go for say, a minute, and you've got no coal, then something isn't quite right. Lets say to go for a minute: you spindle is still in place, you've been working hard, but still no coal? Its probably a question of selection the right woods, and also making sure your kit is made correctly.

Once you think you've got a good kit, and you really want to master it, make yourself a little schedule. Every day, or every other day, or once a week (depending on how much time you have), go out and give it a shot say, 5-10 times. I know from personal experience that slaving away at it for an hour can leave simply angry and annoyed, which generally means that it'll be a long time before you try again. That why, even through I've known how to do it for two years now, I got my first coal only last summer. Rather than practicing in fits and starts, I'd recommend you put in a little time, consistently. Good luck!

here is a video from a site i like, though I think his spindle is too thick.

http://blip.tv/file/367153


P.S. Implume: cool story! thats hilarious

Cloak: exactly what I was thinking!
My cedar spindle grind down too easy.

idk what to use for a spindle though and I know it CAN be done with a cedar spindle and base.

my spindle doesn't really go flying anymore...
it's more like... I lose concentrations and I don't apply pressure and the bottom slips out and the spindle unwraps from the string.

I have a good handhold now.

my bow is VERY sloppy looking.
but it feels good in my hand so I'm fine with it.

actually... surprisingly, I ENJOY going out and practicing.
I don't find myself getting frustrated because I get closer every time I go out.
I actually feel pretty accomplished.

I might try a different spindle if this one doesn't work out.

thanks for the advice.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Man, thats impressive. Good for you, I would always get super annoyed when I slave away at bow drilling and it doesn't work out. Part of it had to do with the spindle getting launched. Somehow, it always seemed to go like this:

1: spindle slips
2: Super-hot end flies into my arm, burning me
3: Spindle ricochets off my arm and soars out of reach

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

Once I got past those issues through, its a lot more fun. Another tip, which you may already be doing, is to start with cotton balls as tinder. Sure, its kinda cheating, but I find it helpful to break these things down into smaller evolutions. First, get it with cotton, then bump up to other stuff. I tuck my tinder underneath the fireboard itself, to eliminate the potential for loosing the coal as you transfer it to the tinder bundle. This way, the tinder builds up on the cotton and is already in place when its ready. Its takes some getting used to, but it helped me when I was getting started. Keep at it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

See if this helps you out at all. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
http://momaw.kikaimegami.com/bowdrill-tips/

thats a cool idea momaw.

I just tried with a different (seemingly harder) spindle.
but had no luck.

it's pretty rough because I was in a hurry, but it made a lot of smoke already and burnt a deep hole in my board.
I'll keep trying with it for a little.

I think it MIGHT be some kind of locusts.
idk though.

another thing I noticed by looking at other vids is that my bow is actually pretty big.
it has a weird balance and shape too.

I feel comfortable with it though so I'll keep it for now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You want soft woods not hard. In order to get fire you need an ember to form in the shredded fluff you make, and when you spin hard woods, they polish and glaze rather than disintegrate.

hmmm. interesting momaw.

I thought if the spindle was harder it would make more dust from the baseboard to form an ember.
I thought the spindle should be harder.
I thought my cedar spindle may be too soft.
idk.

I'll try some more and see.