Taurus Judge: What is it for?

The idea of a .410 shotgun revolver really appealed to me. It seemed like an ideal home defense gun. Having owned a number of 410s, I knew they had a tight pattern that would make a terminal wound at close range without the dangers of over penetration that a big bore revolver might do. A friend who bought two Taurus Judges last year, was searching for a high capacity .223 carbine to use in the upcoming collapse of civilization. Since I had a "surplus" Kel-Tech SU-16, and he was willing to pay the cash value difference, we traded. So the deal was done and now I have this most intimidating horse pistol.

The long cylinder holds five .410 2.5" shotshells or 45 long Colt rounds. This one has the 6" barrel, but a 3" version is also available. The hogleg weighs about 2.8 lbs loaded.

I just had to know, or as the man said in Dirty Harry, "I gots to know". So I stepped out back and blasted the ash catcher or whatever it was to my old Weber fireplace. This was at a range of only about 7 feet or less, "Oh, a snake" range.


Wow, talk about a scatter gun. This pattern is much wider than I anticipated.
An armed assailant at 25 or 30 feet might be peppered all over with #4 shot,
but the damage might not be enough for a stop. On the other hand, at car jacking range, it would be quite effective.
So what am I going to use this for? It is too big to use as a trail gun. I could use it on rattlesnakes, if I loaded it with smaller shot, but the high raccoon population here keeps them in check. I could load it with alternating rounds of #4 or #6 shot and 45 Long Colt ammo for home defense, I guess. After all, I have some nice little trail guns that can take snake shot.

The little S&W model 317-1 with 8 .22LR capacity is a favorite, as is the S&W Air Lite Ti in .38 Spl +P five shooter. And my Charter Arms Bulldog Pug in .44 spl isn't much bigger and packs a whallop.



I'm going to have to think on this for a while. Right now, I would not recommend the Judge for personal defense unless loaded with .45 Long Colt ammo.

ah...the .410

Its well known here as a "snake" round too. The spray pattern looks very good at that distance. Try it on one and let us know how it turns out <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I only kill venomous snakes in my yard. A machete seems to work well enough for me. I think the Taurus is made to stop carjackings or something. Too much spread for anything beyond about ten or fifteen feet. Of course, it will shoot 45 long Colts, too.

It would be cool to chop the barrel back a bit and then thread the end to accept a choked barrel extension. Then you could opt for either a .45 colt snubby or a midsize .410 with a tighter pattern....

Yes, then it would work well, as my old Thompson Contender .410/45 LC did.

If memory serves, mossberg made a home defender 410 shotgun aimed at the female market. One of the things they were pushing is that a 410 slug had more muzzle energy then a 44 mag pistol.

Can you shoot a slug out of that pistol comforatably?

There is no way a 410 slug has the energy of a 44 magnum. It is probably close to a 357 magnum. I would rather just shoot a 45LC. Maybe not big in the energy department, but a proven man stopper.

They were comparing the shotgun ballistics against a pistol.
If I can find the magazine that it was in I'll double check the numbers. Never owned a 410 so I don't know it's ballistics at all. My 44 rem mag is a marlin 1894 so it shows higher velocity/energy then a pistol

A quick wander through some tables suggests that common .410 slug loads versus common .357 magnum loads are surprisingly similar in muzzle energy when fired through the same length of barrel. However. The .410 is fatter, which means a bigger wound and faster energy transfer. The .357 magnum is known to send bullets in one side and out the other of medium sized game, so it has more velocity than it can really use: all else being very approximately equal, you want the biggest possible hole provided you can get at least halfway through the target.

The .357 mag very quickly dominates as the range opens up, but in your typical self defense situation 5 yards is long range. So retained energy is a moot point here.

My opinion is that .410 slugs would do a pretty good job on a human at short ranges. Not any better than other alternatives, though. When you consider how expensive .410 slugs are to practice with, and how limited the selection is next to the wealth of good quality hollow points in handgun calibers... Probably not worth the effort. If you're going to use the .410 for self defense, you probably want it full of number 4 or 5 pellets on the theory that a hundred hits is better than one. That's a hundred chances to get lucky with an eye or an artery, plus it's going to cause absolutely horrific flesh damage. The sheer pain would disable any non-drugged attacker. The only limitation here is abysmal range, but again, in self defense range is hardly ever a problem.

I'm with Horn Dog on the .44 magnum: The .410 slug and .357 mag are dealing with numbers in the 500-700ft# area for muzzle energy, while the .44 magnum can easily develop over 1000ft# from a handgun, 1200ft# if you shoot it in a carbine. Totally different animal.

http://www.hoeningbigboresouth.com/Big%20410%20Ballistics.html

HD
Just saw this, if you want to try it for sh!ts and giggles. I wonder what the muzzle flip would be for something like this

Between my replies you replied, remmington showed the 410 at a muzzle energy of around 650ftlbs, which is considerably less the the 44 mag.
My memory is probably off, maybe the add I saw compared the 357 to the 410. There whole point was that it was similiar ballistics in an easy to use shotgun for women

My pistol shooting expierence is very limited;
22 rimfire
9mm short
9mm
recently 10mm
years ago 38 special.

Far from an expert on the subject

I am not minimizing the power of the .410 slug. I have seen wild hogs taken with them. But for personal defense, the 45LC load should be more than adequate.
Believe it or not, I used a .410 double barrel for hogs years ago. I was deadly accurate with slugs fired from the right barrel. Of course, the range seldom exceeded 40 yards.

Always wanted to hunt hogs, but there just ain't any around here

That's one heck of a pistol Vic!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

I've always liked the .410. I've got an old single shot .410 that is my number one varmit rifle. It's very handy and quite effective when loaded with buck shot.

There's actually a Derringer made that will shoot .410, I always thought it was interesting, I can't remember the brand though... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I just wish it had a tighter pattern. Maybe my gunsmith can put a choke on it.

A wealth of interesting .410 data can be found at:
http://mcb-homis.com/index410.html

I'm now looking at the prices for a Saiga .410 after reading about more about this cartridge. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

There’s also the Thunder Five, which is a snub nose .410/.45 Colt.


If you mean the cheap black one, it’s Leinad. For a GOOD .410 derringer, check out Bond Arms.

If you want a really big ‘un, I’ve seen .45/70 derringers! American Derringer makes one that is .45/70 in one barrel, and .410/.45 in the other.

However, if you want the ultimate He-Man hand cannon, how about THIS one. That’s right, a .50 BMG HANDGUN! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

That's It!!! Bond Arms! That's the one I saw! Looked interesting, but pricey. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Looks like something out of Star Wars. It also begs the question "Why?" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Well if talking about over zealous handguns.
What about the S&W 500 mag snubby? (you know the one in the "bear attack kit")


Dose anyone make a 45/74 Gov. in snub?

To answer momaw, because we/you/they can.

Yeah, they’re nice but expensive. Have you checked their website? They have different barrels you can get for them to change the caliber. I just check their site, and it just so happens they have this .PDF article there:

http://www.bondarms.com/CRSP-Aug08.pdf
SNAKE SLAYER vs. TAURUS JUDGE
Gunhunter Mag. & Buckmasters, LTD.

Good Lord, that would be so much overkill for personal defense! Like the 44 magnum, I consider such loads to be for large dangerous game. A 45 ACP, 45LC, or 44 spl is plenty for self defense. Interesting thing: I was watching Magnum Force the other night when Dirty Harry explained to the other shooters at the cop range that he used a "Light Special" load. I have fired 44 Spl from a S&W 29 and with a gun that heavy, it hardly kicks at all. Makes one wonder about carrying all that extra steel in that big "N" frame when a lighter, more compact weapon in 44 Spl would do. In any case, the Dirty Harry movies sold a lot of Model 29s for S&W.

Hey, Horn Dog. If you didn't see the video about the Judge on Taurus's website, check it out.

http://www.taurususa.com/video/taurus-theJudge-video.cfm

They pretty much say that car jackings and home defense are what this gun is designed for. As far as the surprising spread of the shot, they say that the rifled barrel actually increases the spread because it sends the shot out spiraling. Gives a new meaning to the phrase "spiraling out of control!"

My friend has this one:

Here I am getting acquainted with the S&W .500. Loads were full house Hornaday's.



It's really not that bad to shoot. Very loud, and I wouldn't want to shoot it all day, but the snubby is actually much more pleasant to fire than the 8" barreled version.

Go figure...

Really? My friend surprised me with his accuracy, if the snubby is more manageable I know where my tax returns are going. Unless of course the Yard has a new offering (Hint Hint).

The main ballistic advantage stems from the shot shell use...or so it seems to me...it will hold more pellets than other pistol calibres using shot ammunition I expect...so the idea must be to use this when over penetration is an issue.

If I had a boat/yacht with a cabin below the water line and was sleeping etc...it would be a useful benefit/comfort if disturbed at night. If I had moving targets like car tyres or whatever but that is a bit pro-active than re-active...assuming some burglar or whatever is fleeing...certainly if I had young children and thin walls it would appeal....but perhaps not as much as other options. If you can get .410 flares it would definately be a good choice for a boat gun...especially for a life raft...also good for a camper or trailer....anything really with thin walls.

For a car jacking though...I don't see it having a specific advantage.

The Taurus Judge is for pow pow. Pause. Twitch. Pow pow pow. Problem solved.

ho......

ly..............

sh.......

who needs wrist bones anyways. they are so overrated...

I think the 3" judge loaded with buckshot would make a good home defense gun.

I saw the "Judge" this weekend for the first time in the 3 inch model. The price is right and it looks like it would be fun to shoot.

The only 410's I've ever used were single shot break open for grouse.
I learned to shoot a shotgun on a bolt action 20 gauge.

That thing is a beast Vic. I have never shot a .410 from a pistol/revolver. I have never had to whack a poisonous snake, they usually just go away. My dad has a bit of a problem with rattlers and javalina. He has whacked a few rattlers on his property. My kids play in his yard.

I really was looking into the Judge too when it first came out.....i waited and a friend bought one first. I was also disappointed in the pattern for self defense. I think that this gun has a nitch.....just not sure what it is.

If not how accurate is it when shooting 45's

You're not going to get much with such a short barrel....Did you try some buck shot? I was really thinking about getting one of those.... I like the concept. In the house, even that #4 shot would ruin an intruder's day.. the second shot can be more lethal if necessary....

A choke can be installed on it, but there has to be some rifling left in the bore to keep it legal. I never liked the thought of shooting a shot shell through a rifled barrel.. the rotation causes the shot to spread more. But I kind of like the Judge though for personal defense in the home, trail, or car (RV)

Doc

My buddy has one in 3" and loves it.

He shoots buckshot and slugs out of it. At close distances it has a pretty tight pattern. I think it would make a great home defense gun.

Not very. I easily sold the revolver. I now have a S&W 396 Nightguard in .44 spl. It shoots well. The tried and true Mossberg 20 ga pump remains my #1 home defense weapon. I have many other guns, but I like the little 20 gauge loaded with #4 buckshot.

I don't know about the US but here in Canada I think the 20 gauge is underrated

I talked earlier somewhere about my 20 ga. It is a Mossberg 500c or 590c, I forget at the moment. It stareted out life as a 28 inch modified choke and had ajust a smidgen cut off. I can remove the barrel, and the the magazine tube, put a pistol grip on it and it will fit in a briefcase.

I have shot a combat match with it once, and aside from having to shoot one steel pepper popper (is that the right one, about 3 ft tall made out of steel) twice it did well. I didn't HAVE to shoot it twice, it was falling...slowly.

I found another use for the Taurus Judge. I live in a hunt unit near town. In this hunt unit only shotguns and shot are leagle for hunting coyotes. I do not plan on hunting coyotes this close to town. However I walk my dogs frequently and the coyotes around here are getting scary close. These coyotes have little respect for people. Several of the kids around here have stated that packs have surounded them while walking our dogs. This little gun with 00 shot would be leagle and I would not have to justify self defence in the education of these crazy yotes. I currently cary my glock 26.

I've got the 500 and it has both the 28 inch and 18 1/2 inch barrel as well as the full wood stock and plastic pistol grip.
I've had the shotty for about 20 years I think and it has never let me down.

I want this for a "briefcase shotgun". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Super Shorty

That is bad [censored] !

I'd like a thigh holster for it! I held one at the 1500. Legally, short barreled shotguns are banned in IN, but that is legally a pistol with a $5 AOW tax. Loophole! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> There are videos of it on YouTube.

I could deal with one of those, talk about a CCW! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> But I think I would get rid of the fold down grip and try using a mini wood or plastic fore end on it.

Thats a awesome gun there!!!

Now that would make a great home defense gun!!!

Oh man, that's a sawed off shotgun. It would be great to have two. One for the Jeep and one for the house. I'd have to get a Federal license for those.

How about one for each hip..... Make my day...

Doc

The Box O' Truth #41 - The Taurus Judge Vs. The Box O' Truth

How about this guy? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Shotgun

Good for clearing rooms

Yeah, I love that one, but unfortunately, the Government doesn't trust us simple civilians with such autos made after 1986. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I wish they made a semi auto version.

I determined from my own testing that the Judge was not the best option for home defense. It would be useful as a snake gun or possibly at extremely close range such as during an attempted car jacking. I have a lot more confidence in stopping an intruder with a 20 ga pump and #4 buckshot.

Funny you should post this! I saw one of these last week here in town. In Texas, it's considered an "AOW", any other weapon, and can be "trasferred" and all you need is a completed and signed “Form 4” (5320.4), a “922 Compliance” form ( F 5330.20), 2 sets of fingerprints, 2 passport photos, and payment of the appropriate “Transfer Fee”.

For “Any Other Weapons” the Transfer Fee is $ 5.00 (yes, five dollars).
The Transfer of the ownership will take 90 days from the day the BATFE receives the completed paperwork and payment. The local “Class 3” Dealer will supply the paperwork after a Serial Number has being established and registered with the BATFE (case of special orders).

Sounds like too much work but they are sexy sweet!

I have 2 Tarus judges and they serve as a versitile backup firearm. Federal makes 2.5 inch hadgun ammo in #4 buck, 000 buck and 00. If you buy hunting bucksot in 2.5 inch, you get 3 .36 balls that travel out of the judge at over 1500 FPS. Corbon makes .45 colt ammo that is 300 grains and travels at 1300 FPS. Either of these two options will serve formidable against any opponent. I personally mix 000 buck and .45 corbon rounds. I also keep a glock .40 handy for quick reload capability. I think this is tops as a backpacking gun if you are in the eastern US, out west you may want something with a bit more punch.

It is for you to spend money on <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Novelty usually sells more than practicality.

Who wants vanilla anymore ?

Natural law if I missed it, sorry.
If you haven't introduced yourself yet, maybe take a momment to do that.

Welcome to the yard

Yeah,welcome. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

natural law - Howdy and Welcome to the Scrap Yard! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Interesting post as well. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Our pastor bought one a while back and I finally got to handle it a couple days ago (the judge). I was surprised at how light it was for a gun that has a cylinder and barrel that is each 3 inches long.

Welcome to the Yard NL! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am starting to think this revolver would be an ok home defense since Federal has the new 410 shells designed for it. The .45 Colt is close to the .45 ACP, so it would be a decent bug out revolver too. I know my thinking has started to change lately about the bug out pistol/revolver in the bag--it must be reliable, work in heat and cold, work in dirty environment, and be a caliber that is useful.

I think the judge would be a pretty decent home defence gun, especially the 3" version.

Sounds like a 10mm Glock...maybe 45acp.

I think revolvers are extremely reliable, great for people who don't shoot alot etc etc.

But, my bet is on the Glock for total rounds in a lifetime to say...an AirWeight S&W. It would shoot better very dirty too maybe.

Saw this today and had to share.

Judge Not, Lest Ye be Judged

Or, Don't Shoot Your Daughter's Boyfriend in the Nuts.

Sheriff's deputies in Navarre, Florida, were called to a noise complaint Monday, and when they arrived on the scene they found a man and a woman running toward them. The man said he had been shot and was bleeding from the groin. The woman with him alleged that her father had shot the victim because "he hates him, dude."

Police located the father, William Russell Kelly Jr, 48, and he allegedly admitted to shooting the boyfriend, Randall Carter. “I shot him in the nuts with bird-shot because he was beating my daughter,” Kelly said, according to his arrest report.

Officers said he was still armed with a Taurus revolver known as "The Judge", which can shoot .410 shotgun shells or .45 caliber slugs:



Mr. Kelly was charged with aggravated battery causing bodily harm or disability and held on $20,000 bond.



Sounds like a justified use of force to me!

theres the new one for 2010 as well

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/02/09/taurus-rossi-circuit-judge/

Wow. That is a use of force there. I wonder what the testimony of the daughter will be like.

The revolver carbine kinda reminds me of the Colt revolving carbine or the Remington revolving carbine of the Civil War period.

The revolver shotgun carbine is interesting. I'm not sure what I would use it for but it is interesting.

That revolver carbine is very interesting.