Water PURIFIERS?

I am thinking about getting a First Need XL water purifier. IF we have an incident (I live just a few miles from the New Madrid fault line) I want to be able to have a safe supply of water wherever we wind up. I am worried about dead animals in the water and other assorted nasties floating around and possible toxic chemicals.

Does anyone have experience with this system/know if it will take care of the above concerns. If not, what would you recommend?

Thanks

Great question. I have given thought to one of these too but all I have ever used is the tablets, bleach, or boling and straining.

Sorry I don't have any experience with the purifier you mention. I do have experience with these and they all work as advertised:

http://www.katadyn.com/usen/katadyn-prod...adyn-hiker-usa/

http://www.katadyn.com/usen/katadyn-prod...er-bottle-blue/

http://www.aquamira.com/consumer/aquamira-water-treatment-drops/

I actually prefer the Aquamira Drops to the others for small size, light weight.

Have you checked out the new SteriPen purifiers at MEC, they look kinda neat !

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detai...D=1251487078517

Looks like they have limits, and are expensive. That was 1st impression.

I know that I probably am just being paranoid and I know that water FILTERS would probably work, at least 99.9 percent of the time. But with the health problems that my wife has and the ones I am starting to develop, I don't want to take any chances if I don't have to. I specifically mentioned dead animals and the runoff from livestock farms, and chemicals that would leak out from farm supply warehouses. I know this is a worse case concern, but the flood we had around here a couple years ago brought home the fact that there will be many animal remains in the water and as I said, I just want the security of having the means to have clean water in ANY situation.

Randy

Randy - I understand and appreciate your concerns, particularly given your location. Although we sit quite high where we live, I still have a few Katadyn models - the Pocket, Combi, and Gravidyn filters in case of a catastrophic event. My plan would include hauling some water from my pond, pre-filtering and boiling it, then running it through one of the Katadyns once it has cooled. You do NOT want to get sick during a crisis! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I also carry a Pocket model in my vehicles in case something happened while in transit. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am a firm believer in the axiom "better to have it and not need it, rather than to need it and not have it". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I never had any luck with the First Need filters (I've owned two of them). They always seemed to clog quickly, even with relatively clean backcountry water sources.

On the other hand, the Katydyn products (formerly PUR), have been amazingly reliable and have handled tremendous filtering loads and abuse without any problems for me.

I will put my trust in a Katydyn filter with chlorine and iodine as backups. For particularly turbid water sources, a large staging container should be used to allow for both settling of heavier contaminants and floating of hydrocarbons (like a septic system).

Cody Lundin's books do a good job of describing several other options (natural UV, distillation, etc.)

I like my Katadyn for backpacking, also the Aquamire are great for pretty clean/clear water, just to filter the crap out, any floaties and I will use my Hiker. MSR makes some really nice water filters as well, and are field fixable.

Put a coffee filter over the intake. It will act as a pre-filter and not clog as much.

Thanks Klink, I'm MOSTLY that way as well, depending upon what it is I MIGHT need sometime. My concern is mainly with contamination coming from dead amimals in the water source. I know what the FILTERS take (or can take out depending on which one you get) but what about waterborne HUMAN dieseases, Hepa and some of the other stuff? I plan on the coffee filter trick, scooping out a 5 gallon bucket of water to let it settle etc and boiling. Would that along with clorine take care of what I am afraid of If I am using a FILTER instead of one that supposedly is a PURIFIER?

Thanks everyone for all your thoughts on this. It really means a lot, and just continues to show that although we are all of varied backgrounds and countries of origins and races we are all the same, we are members of the humane race and we just let all that other stuff get in the way.

Randy - I believe the pre-filter, boiling, and chlorine would do the trick for you. Some might think this is being a little extra cautious - and it is. But as I said before, you do not want for you or a family member to get sick - especially during a crisis. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Tom

I have one of these Pitman. Tried it out a couple of times with tap water.
I'm told the main uses for it are for when a person is travelling and the water
where they are staying is suspect. I've just used it for treating water out of
the kitchen tap (not much of a test). The only problem that I can see, is that
your ability to process the water is limited to a liter at a time.

It's made for clear water, so pre-filtering is needed if the water has junk in
it. According to the literature, the UV is supposed to kill everything, and I
guess it does. Still would boil as well, just to make sure.


I think this would be the way to go, unless you have an allergy to chlorine or
something like that.

I don't have experience with this system but it looks really interesting for large volume (household) purification.

http://www.sawyerproducts.com/SP180.htm

http://www.sawyerproducts.com/SP190.htm

Great thread. I know that I am thinking about picking up a couple different styles and looking into the "how to" of making my own stationary filter system just in case the need ever arises.

Keep 'em coming.

Anyone tried the Sulis PPD yet?
It caught my eye since it seems works on a typical plastic bottle. I would think it would be good to use along with the usual drops or tabs after a pre-screening with a paper filter to prolong its life.

I have had good luck with this guy from Katadyn. I have mainly used it to pull water from lakes. We have to carry so much water when we go out in to the desert and at about 8 pounds a gallon, the weight adds up. I wish there were more oppotunities for me to purify water out here, but hey it's the desert.

http://www.katadyn.com/usen/katadyn-prod...adyn-vario-usa/

the best purifier is a cook pot over a fire. SOLID STATE, SIMPLE, and CHEAP (not filters to go bad or replace).

nuff said1

Except that doesn't help against heavy metal poisoning or pesticides...

Just to mention as I think many forget,
You have a 50 gallon or more supply of water
in the hot water tank.
If water service is disrupted and gets shut off,
you first need to turn the gas off to the hot water tank (or electric)
and then to access the water,use a hose on the bottom
drain valve. Its clean water,maybe a little rich with rust
if you have an antique heater.

I have never had any problems with any water from remote areas that I know of, but I've always used chemical treatment, filter, purifier/filter, SteriPen, or some combination. I boil treated water for food prep purposes instead of water treatment.

SteriPen FAQ
http://www.steripen.com/faq.html

Filters I own, use, and recommend:
MSR WaterWorks EX, MiniWorks EX, and HyperFlow
Katadyn Pocket and Expedition
Katadyn Base Camp and MSR AutoFlow
Katadyn Exstream Virustat bottles/kits

I own and have used others which have either been discontinued or I just don’t use any more.

If prepping water for use at night, I like to use a lightweight “bucket” to let the particulates settle before filtering. I add the chemicals while it is settling.

Before storing or when backflushing on extended trips, I like to treat the “clean” water with chlorine before the backflush.

Coffee filters are excellent prefilters.

You might think I spend excessive time, money, weight, and physical energy to make sure the water I drink is safe, but there are too many unknowns to risk it IMO. Anyway, the time to do this is relatively minor in comparison to some other backcountry activities.

FGW, good reminder.

I need to think about this a little more seriously.

I spent 7 days last year in the backcounty of Yellowstone and the only water I had was from the nearest river. I used two types of water purifiers...both by Katydyn and never had a moment's problem. The water does taste of iodine but it's a very simple system to use.

I think someone has already posted a link to the Katydyn Exstream but we used the Katydyn Base Camp model once we made camp each night as well. I like to carry some sort of flavored drink powder to add to cover the iodine taste but I understand that that may not always be possible.

Ok, I guess I'll go the filter route. the First need Purifier has an operating temp of 33 to about 100 and something. I'm worried that it's possible to have some moisture in it and it'll freeze and bust or that it may get more than 110 or even more in the vehicle. I guess I could keep it in the house, but that at least in my thinking would defeat the purpose of having it with us when we're out and about. Ok, now for the biggie. What would be a good way to store a couple three or four ounces of bleach without it leaking out over everything? I have a couple of small bottles but they have a paper type "seal", sort of like the original clorox bottles have. Would that work? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

depends on the system i have with them..... and the water i have to deal with .... i have seen bad water and ok water and frankly sparkling water but still treat...

in my mini kit , i have coffee filter prefilters, and tablets , and most water is boiled before used....

in my hiking pack
i have a gravity bladder system that can gets me a couple liters fairly easy and its tiny.. with 1 dirty bag and a bag to put it in , and one on my back to filter into... as well as tabs...

in my truck
right now i have a few gallons of water , and im working on getting a bigger set up with a pressure syphon

in the cabin... right now theres a still and a large in palce filter sets ready to be put in once i have the land ... with a 100 gallon holding tank.... and clorine.... and a supply of sealed carbon filters and membraine

the more i researched water treatment it has many variables.... as i can carry more weight i carry better gear taht can take contaminates down quickly.... and produce a larger volume of safe-ish water... its very hard to be 100% sure mind you. but i did have a couple really bad run ins with backpackers plauges while in the boy scouts and i hope never to repeat it.

I carry my filter in an insulated bottle holder. I originally did this for padding in case of a significant fall. However, good insulation will prevent freezing.

I have kept a filter in the bottle holder attached to the outside of the pack for quick access during the summer, but when <40, I'll put it inside the pack. I'll put it deeper inside the pack surrounded by clothes and sleeping bag if much colder.

Think about the differences between a bottle of water left outside the tent all night, one kept inside the tent at night, and one kept in the sleeping bag during the night.

I would like to have some detailed temperature ranges, but all I have is varied experience. Maybe I haven't experienced serious cold weather conditions like some on here, but I have spent nights out with windchill of approximately -25 (I believe it may have actually been -17 F). That's as cold as I've been experienced, but I'm sure somebody here can tell you about -40 before windchill.

Anyway, warm the filter and then insulate it from the cold.

Another cold weather thing I like to do is make the hot chocolate, etc. at night, put it in LEAKPROOF containers, and put it in the sleeping bag with me at night. It helps me stay warm, and is warm when I wake up.

BillyJoe, thanks for the information.

in cold cold weather i have to make choices... you have to also think from closes to the body out.....

i try to keep my food/energy bars and stuff for the day close... its so much easier to eat em when there not frozen , normaly a small amount of water in my coat pockets to help stablize the temp and keep it from freezing , normaly a nalgen ... i also keep spare batteries and electronics i need including flash lights inside my inner layer.... any thing extra that can take the cold i push to the out side pockets , and then fabrics and stuff not really effected by the cold in my pack....

another trick i been working on is using the camel back safe electrolye solution , this should add enough salts to lower the freezing temp but also act as an anti freeze in the lines... i would try to dry the filter as much as possible... i dont see a problem with charcoal filter media but i dont know about ceramics while wet , they should be ok.... i normaly keep those in my pockets sence its normaly small and i try to dry out the system as much as i can... as long as you dont leave standing water in the lines the freezing should be fine and will go away when you run your filter... but the other issue is what plastics you use for your tubes... vynil gets really brittle when its cold and it breaks down fairly quickly ... tygon has worked well for me in the past....

at night below 40 i find a warm bottle of water is good in a sleeping bag ... so are warmed rocks ... most the time what i try to do is maintain loft in my bags and pad enough to keep the insulation high enough....

i havnt been to a winter camp in 4 years though , most the time i just spend the day and most a night out with out making camp and go home late.... i must be getting old

Speaking of Camelbacks
A tip to keep the water from freezing in the tube,
blow in it after you take your drink.

Thanks for that..

What about HDPE Nalgene botles ? You can get them in small sizes at REI that hold a few of ounces or, you can order them from Nalgene.

505: Thanks, I'll check into it! I don't REALLY think I'll ever need it or the fire starter (but the first aid kit I'm putting together has already been used for skinned knuckles) but I would rather have it and NOT need it than the reverse.

The second you don't have it, you'll need it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

There is only one maybe 2 mechanical units approved by the EPA as water purifiers. First Need being the most common. It has drawbacks as mentioned. The rest are filters of different degrees. If it were me in this situation I would use the katadyn hiker with a coffee filter over the prefilter.

then I would chemical treat it with MP1 tabs, then I would run the water threw a brita type filter twice to remove chemicals and metals.

The best you can do without a real expensive unit.

A word on ceramic filter elements. They work good but freeze and crack in
winter, got that t-shirt.

http://www.backpacking-guide.com/water-filter-purifier-reviews.html

Hound

SAR H: Thank you as well, I MIGHT still go with the First Need, but not 100% sure yet. I have been looking at the katadyne unit and from what I've read, Coffee filters are a no brainer. I'll check into the MP1 tabs but might just use bleach (unless the mp1's are clorox) Again, thanks for the info.