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Re: Backpacking Water Purifiers ??? [Re: SkunkHunter] #431523 09/29/11 12:29 AM
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Art Offline
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Hard to say, I know the Sawyer stuff get's used a lot in Africa. That being said, my Katadyn has worked fine for me. One thing to consider is reading up on how to work the filters and the actual instructions. Too often people are quick to ditch the paper and assume because it has a handle all you do is pump. The problem is there can be issues if the pump hasn't been primed, or an air-lock issue has occurred, or you apply too much pressure and force a break/leak. I would recommend a quick search on the pump that you own and go over the troubleshooting as well as forum feedback. I have found great solutions to problems I may encounter because I like to read reviews. I especially scour through the Amazon reviews. As for which last longer, I think in this case one can say that you get what you pay for. The Katadyn Pocket filter is expensive but most agree that it is one of the toughest and longest lasting. I haven't gone through 1 million gallons with my Sawyer, so I'll let you know <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Also, check out MSR's website for water filtration and purification:
http://cascadedesigns.com/MSR/FAQ/Water-Treatment-and-Hydration


JYD #66 Endure to the End Long live the Brotherhood of the Yard
Re: Backpacking Water Purifiers ??? [Re: Art] #431524 09/29/11 12:45 AM
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gun dog Offline
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I have my katadyn set up to fill my hydration bladders.


Any day I'm above the grass and I'm not a zombie is a good day! JYD#138

Re: Backpacking Water Purifiers ??? [Re: gun dog] #431525 09/29/11 05:12 AM
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Thanks for the info Art. I have considered a First need because of the filtering size. It as well goes down pretty far on the size of stuff it filters out. It will filter out even more than the katadyns do.


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Re: Backpacking Water Purifiers ??? [Re: SkunkHunter] #431526 09/29/11 05:14 AM
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I know that here in the U.S. we don't have to worry about some of the stuff they do in other parts of the world. But this past spring (when we got 24 inches of rain in a few days) I am worried about fecal matter and dead animals in the water that we COULD be at some time forced to drink if things went South.


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Re: Backpacking Water Purifiers ??? [Re: SkunkHunter] #431527 09/29/11 05:47 AM
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Art Offline
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Quote
I know that here in the U.S. we don't have to worry about some of the stuff they do in other parts of the world. But this past spring (when we got 24 inches of rain in a few days) I am worried about fecal matter and dead animals in the water that we COULD be at some time forced to drink if things went South.


This brings another thing to mind. Boiling. I hope all those who consider the treatment of water also factor in the use of a stove along with the cookware to boil water. In the event of a catastrophe you will need to consider everything. I even thought about buying the same calcium hypochlorite tablets we use at work. Don't confuse the stuff with sodium hypochlorite:

http://www.klormansystems.com/DIFERENCES_BETWEEN_CAL_HYPO_AND_BLEACH.pdf


JYD #66 Endure to the End Long live the Brotherhood of the Yard
Re: Backpacking Water Purifiers ??? [Re: Art] #431528 09/29/11 06:37 AM
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So, am I wrong here or are you saying that the "Pool Shock" can be degraded to the point it is useless in just a few months or less?


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Re: Backpacking Water Purifiers ??? [Re: SkunkHunter] #431529 09/29/11 11:16 PM
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Depends on the concentration of calcium hypochlorite in your shock. The powder should be able to last years if stored properly and is a high concentration. You'd have to check the composition of the stuff you are using. Found this interesting article that might help:



WATER

Life Sustaining Water – How thirsty do you want to be?

The U.S. Govt. and LDS Church suggest 1-gallon minimum – the Israeli’s suggest 2-gallon minimum per person per day, for drinking water only. If you want to wash your hands and face you will need to store additional water. Also consider 90-days food – 90-days water – 90-days cash reserve - At least One 55-gallon drum per family member.

Obtaining good-tasting, contamination-free water is ordinarily not a problem. But in times of emergency, on out-door trips, or when traveling in under-developed areas, having access to a source of drinkable water is a matter of first priority. The bacteria, viruses, and parasites in contaminated water can create many kinds of health problems.

1. Filter just for starting. When the purity of water is questionable, use the following steps to make it safe to drink. Pickup some 5-gallon elastic (paint) strainer bags (5-mil filters) - from the local home center to help filter out chunks that may be in the water and / or a 1- mil Water Sox filter from Utah Civil Defense 800.425.5397.

Remove Solids – Destroy Disease Organisms – Bacteria & Viruses – Heat, Filter or Chemicals.

§2. Boiling: -Bring water to a rolling boil and maintain for a minimum of 10 minutes. For every 1,000 feet above sea level, add one minute of boiling to the initial 10 minutes. If the water pot is covered, it will shorten the time to reach a boil. This method is recognized as the safest treatment.

Boiling is the most certain way of killing all microorganisms, according to the Wilderness Medical Society, to improve the taste of boiled water, add charcoal from a wood fire during boiling and filter out the charcoal before drinking. You may also add a pinch of salt and aerate to the water to make it taste better.

§3. Liquid Chlorine Bleach: Any brand - 5.25% or 6% sodium hypochlorite (chlorine) (like Ultra Clorox) that contains NO soap, fragrance or phosphates. Do not use scented bleach.

Amount of water Clear water Cloudy water – 1st strain / filter
2 quarts 4 drops 1/8 teaspoon
1 gallon 1/8 teaspoon – 8-drops 1/4 teaspoon
5 gallons 1/2 teaspoon 1 teaspoon
Let the water stand for 30 minutes. Test for Free Chlorine a Residual odor - The water should have a slight chlorine odor. If it does not, add the same amount of bleach again and let the water stand for 15 more minutes.

§4. Hydrogen Peroxide: Peroxide is a perfectly acceptable disinfectant for water, as it oxidizes, as does chlorine. There are a couple of things with peroxide that make it differ from chlorine as a disinfectant. Peroxide degrades even more rapidly than chlorine and potency may be an issue if it is to be stored. The other thing that makes peroxide more difficult to use is that testing for peroxide residual levels is difficult compared to testing for chlorine residuals. Residuals need to be measured to ensure disinfection is complete.

§5. Iodine Methods: Iodine has been used to disinfect water since the early 1900’s. In order to destroy Giardia cysts, the drinking water must be at least 68° F, the water can be warmed in the sun before treating or hot water can be added. Iodine should be limited to a short-term disinfectant. Iodine Crystals can be purchased through Nitro-Pac Heber City, Ut. www.Nitro-pac.com – 800.866.4876 - Allergy to iodine? Do not use it! The amount of iodine or chlorine necessary to kill giardia depends on water temperature, pH, turbidity, and contact time between the chemical and the parasite. Treats up to 500-gallons – Treat & Wait 30 minutes – Stains / Alcohol - Corrosive – Sublimes – evaporates apply Plumber’s Teflon Tape on the threads of the bottle.

a) Tincture of Iodine: Common household iodine from the medicine chest or first aid kit may be used to disinfect water. Add five drops of 2 percent United States Pharmacopoeia (U.S.P.) tincture of iodine to each quart of clear water. For cloudy water add ten drops and let the solution stand for at least 30 minutes.

b) Iodine Tablets: Commercially prepared iodine tablets containing the necessary dosage and can be purchased at drug and sporting goods stores. Many people object to the iodine taste, which is stronger than that left by an active-iodine pump purifier. Some brands of iodine tablets come with an iodine neutralizer tablet, which you use after the iodine has had time to work. This treatment removes the iodine taste completely. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is the active ingredient, which means that you can use powdered fruit drink mixes like Kool-Aid or Tang to help disguise any off-tastes in water. This old desert hiker's trick not only eliminates the iodine taste, but also masks the alkaline taste common to desert water.

Keep solid iodine away from children. Do not touch the crystals! Solid iodine is very irritating to the skin and will stain most things it touches, although alcohol will dissolve it readily. The violet vapors are very corrosive! The iodine crystal method of water purification is inexpensive, and actually more effective than chlorination. As solid iodine has an indefinite shelf life, one bottle should last a lifetime for emergency use.


The only thing tougher than planning for emergencies - is explaining why you did not!!

Sources:
# Black Berkey Water Filters - The ALERT Store - One Academy Blvd. -Big Sandy, TX 75755 - Phone: (903) 636-9384
# BuyActivatedCharcoal.com - 308-665-1566 / 888-264-5568 - PO Box 261, Crawford, NE 69339
# Clear Springs (801) 226-3950 - 235 S State Orem, UT Spa Essentials Sanitizer - Chlorinating Concentrate Active Ingredient: Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate 99% Inert Ingredients: 1%
# Advanced Filtration - David Ostler
801.830.8488 / 801.465.0655 393 S. Sunnyhill Cir. Payson, UT. 84651

Water Storage Barrels
If at all possible - purchase new heavy-duty blue barrels, if the price is a concern - consider buying used barrels.
Cleaning Vanilla and Pepsi barrels - DO NOT use Pickle, Peppers or Olive barrels
During the hot summer is the prefect time of year to make this process work.

We treated our Vanilla and Pepsi barrels in the following method:
§ Set the barrel in a sunny location.
§ As you fill the barrel with water, add 4 cups of baking soda and 1/4 cup of bleach.
§ Stir the mixture and completely fill the barrels to capacity and seal.
§ Allow the barrels to “cook” in the sun 4 to 7 days.
§ Remove the water and smell the barrel.
§ The odor of the “old” product should be gone and a slight chorine smell should remain.
§ If the “old” odor remains fill the barrel with fresh water again and duplicate the process.
§ Completely drain the barrel.
§ Then rinse the inside/outside of the barrels 2 or 3 times, removing all of the baking soda and drain.
§ Place the barrel in its final resting spot on top of a piece of OSB or plywood.
§ Fill the barrel with tap water and allow 3.25 inches of headspace for possible freezing.
§ Add a capful of bleach and seal.
§ We then cover our barrels with 6 mil black plastic on all sides and top to help shield our water barrels from any light and possible algae growth, tie the plastic down with cord.
§ Store them in areas where leakage will not cause damage to the home.
Store your water containers on wooden palates or boards above your cement floors, and away from gasoline or other volatile substances, to avoid those interesting flavors in your drinking water. It is best to change your water at least once a year.

Various Water Storage Containers
Good water storage containers are airtight, resistant to breakage, and heavy enough to hold water. They should have a lining that will not rust or affect the flavor of the water. The following containers are commonly used:

# Plastic Juice or Soda Bottles - Use clear plastic containers made of PETE – PET plastic. Used containers should be thoroughly cleaned and rinsed.
# Heavy Plastic Buckets or Drums - These should be food grade.
# Water Heaters - Close the inlet valve immediately after the water supply is disrupted.
# Water Beds A double waterbed holds about 200 gallons of water. This water contains an algaecide. Do not drink it. Store this water for non-food uses only, such as washing clothes and general cleaning.
# Bleach Bottles -Also for non-food usage only.

What is the difference between water filters and purifiers?
If the ceramic filter is Dropped or Frozen it may be Damaged and Useless
Filters strain out particles as water is forced through the filter and Purifiers chemically kill the particulates. Only Filters can treat for protozoa not by purifiers. They are approximately 2 microns in size. The Giardia parasite can cause an intestinal diarrhea illness. Interestingly, protozoa are immune to chemical purification treatments because of their hard, protective shell. This is one reason that many purifier manufacturers choose to also have some sort of filter element on their purifiers.

Filters and Purifiers can treat for most Bacteria. Salmonella and E. Coli for examples. They are approximately 0.2 microns and larger in size, meaning that filters will be able to catch them as long as the filter pores are at least as small as 0.2 microns. Purifiers can also kill bacteria. Without catching bacteria a person will be in danger of getting Cholera and Typhoid Fever.

Only Purifiers can eliminate viruses. Viruses are so small (0.004 microns) that filters can't reliably catch them. Some examples of viruses are Hepatitis A, Polio, and the Norwalk Virus. They can be killed by purification, chemical disinfecting, and boiling. If you plan to do a lot of international traveling where you need to treat water before drinking you should get a water purifier. Viruses are more common outside the United States.

Other Considerations: Filters clog and need to be replaced. Another negative aspect of filters is that sometimes you can filter faster than the filtering element can clean. Filters work by pumping a handle manually. Impatient, forceful pumping can shove particles through the filter and into your drinking water. Purifiers have equally significant downfalls. Because the active ingredient for treating water in a purifier is iodine, some people should not drink water from a purifier. It is recommended that pregnant women or people with thyroid problems do not drink from iodine-treated water. Also, iodine can add a foul taste. After prolonged use of iodine, some people develop thyroid problems, so be aware of this potential side effect.

Water is relatively inexpensive to store and certainly not difficult to do, the time to store is now. Water that we take for granted when things are normal, in an emergency becomes absolutely critical. After earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. have struck; water typically is sold for $5 a gallon, if you can get any.

Joanne & Michael

P.S.

# Advanced Filtration - David Ostler
801.830.8488 / 801.465.0655 393 S. Sunnyhill Cir. Payson, UT. 84651
These Sports Filtered Water Bottles may be good for your D-Bag / 72- hour kit.

# 1- mil Water Sox filter from Utah Civil Defense 800.425.5397. A pre-water filter before running the water through the Black Berkey filter to extend the life of your expensive water filters.

# Black Berkey Water Filters - The ALERT Store - One Academy Blvd. -Big Sandy, TX 75755 - Phone: (903) 636-9384

# BuyActivatedCharcoal.com - 308-665-1566 / 888-264-5568 - PO Box 261, Crawford, NE 69339. Charcoal removes foul odors and tastes from your drinking water.

# Clear Springs (801) 226-3950 - 235 S State Orem, UT Spa Essentials Sanitizer - Chlorinating Concentrate Active Ingredient: Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate 99% Inert Ingredients: 1%. BE Careful - using too much chlorine in your water can be HARMFUL.

# Iodine Crystals can be purchased through Nitro-Pac Heber City, Ut. www.Nitro-pac.com – 800.866.4876. Should be used only for short time periods NOT over extended time periods.

By MICHAEL JOANNE


JYD #66 Endure to the End Long live the Brotherhood of the Yard
Re: Backpacking Water Purifiers ??? [Re: Art] #431530 11/30/11 12:32 PM
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OK, filter straws are ok for emergencies. Pump filters are better. PURIFIERS are best.

I'm thinking about getting a Sawyer (Squeezable) system for the bob/Get out of dodge QUICK or just if we go walking around somewhere. They filter down to 0.1 micron. I am ALSO considering their complete system (the one that filters down to 0.02 micron) as the main system. It has two "Bladders", one for dirty water that gravity feeds into the clean water bag after going through the filter. Sawyer guarantees them for 1 million gallons.

Do you think this would be a good system or should a regular pump system be considered?

Sawyer systems/specs can be found here.

http://www.sawyer.com/products.htm


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