Scrap Yard Knife Company

How to get my knife back?

Posted By: shoonmine

How to get my knife back? - 03/27/12 08:17 PM

Im not sure if this is the right place but here it goes. So I was in the National Forrest and we came across a ranger. He asked if we had any illegal weapons, I told him I had a knife in my pocket. So he searched me and pulled my scrapivor out of my pocket. He said I was concealing a weapon and he confiscated it, only giving me a warning. Is there a way I can petition to get my knife back or is it lost to the cracks of our government?
Posted By: MikeTheKnife

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/27/12 08:29 PM

Wow ! I can't help you out , as I'm from Ontario Canada and have no idea about the regulations in Calafornia . But man , I find that pretty [censored] harsh for such a small knife . Especially hiking in a Park where one would expect people to maybe be carrying a knife on them . I hope he cut himself on it for being such a pr1ck !
Posted By: shoonmine

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/27/12 08:47 PM

Mike thats what i was thinking. Im new to California myself, I grew up in Virginia and that would of never happened. I may just write it off and buy a few more when my wallet permits. And I wont have a knife concealed in this state again.
Posted By: Endeavour Morse

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/27/12 08:48 PM

Another reason to hate The People's Republic of Kalifornia.
Posted By: MikeTheKnife

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/27/12 09:08 PM

Well I know there are laws against concealed wepons up here too when it comes to fixed blade knives . But I mean it's not like you had a Dogfather tucked inside your coat . It's just a small knife and easily carried in your pocket and really smaller than many folders when they are open . So I mean I just don't get the big deal . He might have said " small as it is that knife is a fixed blade , so you best carry it in the open in future" and left it at that . After all you WHERE out in a Park where you may need a knife , not like you got caught sneaking into the White House with it or something lol .

Anyway , I'd take a shot at getting it back , if for no other reason just to make the point .
Posted By: SkunkHunter

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/27/12 09:42 PM

I agree with MikeTheKnife. When I was stationed at Offutt AFB (Omaha) I had a large fixed blade "Negreto bolo"), handmade crude knife behind the seat of my truck, UNDER a web belt and canteen, UNDER a quilt, UNDER a tarp which was all over a jack (The knife was at the bottom of the stack). I got stopped in a random vehicle check and one of the skycops took it and said it was concealed and turned me into my commander. Well the Exec got wind of it and got me out of trouble (he was a knife guy), but they were not going to give me the knife back. Now it only cost me $2.50 cents in the Philippines way back in about 75 or 76, but It was my favorite (and only) big knife. I wound up writting a letter to the Security Police commander (with recommendation from my Exec) that it be returned. THREE months later I was told I could pick it up but if I was found with It or any other knife concealed again, I would be court martialed.

SOME folks are just TO annal retentive.
Posted By: SkunkHunter

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/27/12 09:44 PM

OR, if you really want to be put on the poopie list, write to your congressman and complain to him/her (but being Kalifornia it may not do any good), but at least you will have the satisfaction of NOT going down without a fight, something more of us need to do, ME included.
Posted By: jdigi101

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/27/12 10:55 PM

In California you can only carry a fixed blade on your belt. The crazy thing is that you can conceal any size folder.

You are actually luck you were not charged for concealing a dirk/dagger style knife (fixed blade with not hand guard). That is a fellony. You can consider your lost knife a knowledge tax.

If you are new to California you should give this a read:

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/f...e3774/1/hilite/

It will save you a lot of greif.
Posted By: jdigi101

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/27/12 10:58 PM

The California law that really blows my mind is that I can carry this knife on my belt and this gun concealed and loaded if I am fishing with a valid fishing licence:

[Linked Image from i1002.photobucket.com]
Posted By: shoonmine

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/27/12 11:34 PM

Thanks for the info idigi101. Ill take the loss of a knife over a felony charge any day.
Posted By: gun dog

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/27/12 11:41 PM

Nice g22
Posted By: shoonmine

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/27/12 11:44 PM

ANd oh he mad it real clear I was in the wrong and I was lucky because he didnt charge me. I wonder though, he said I would have to go to federal court not state, is there a federal law against carrying a concealed fixed blade knife? Im going to try and find out.
Posted By: MikeTheKnife

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/27/12 11:55 PM

jdigi , that's just too funny that you have to have the knife in full view but you can hide your Glock on you . I wonder what brilliant mind thought that up . As if a little knife like a Scrapivor or Izula is anything as dangerous as a semi automatic hand gun . Our tax dollars at work .
Posted By: gun dog

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 12:01 AM

The whole situation suck!! But you know that ranger is enjoying his new toy! You have to be careful with their questions. You kinda gave him probable cause to search you. In Ohio you wouldn't really have to say and then he would have no probable cause to search you. I don't know what federal park laws are though.
Posted By: gun dog

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 12:01 AM

You got targeted for being honost
Posted By: Massive Metal

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 04:02 AM



I live in Commiefornia...and I want out!!

Actually being harrassed is one of the reasons my gear is very "normal" looking and my BOB is no where near military in style.

The knife laws seem to be vague and really up to the officers or the judge. A folder of ANY size? All the LEO's I know said nothing over 3" and all the Cali forum people I know say nothing over 3.5"!
I have a BM mini barage that I took the assist out of (I love it!). The auto assisted knife is "legal" in Cali, but I know of two people that had theirs taken away from them because they were assisted.

I also think it depends on the County, I think Los Angeles (where I live...jealous?) and San Francisco are much different than say Bakersfield.

MM
Posted By: Massive Metal

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 04:04 AM



I know of at least three people that want out, but they are underwater in their homes and just can't afford to leave. When I was growing up relatives could not afford to move here, now people can't afford to leave.

MM
Posted By: lazi

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 04:35 AM

illegal weapon? if I had been asked that specific question then the answer would be "absolutely not".

imho a knife is not a weapon unless it is used or at least intended to be used that way. I have not used a knife as a weapon to date so it doesn't fit my definition when I carry one.. maybe a situation that will redefine a knifes role will come along but no bs, my knives are just tools and not "illegal weapons" to me. if he asked if I had any awesome tools on me then maybe would get a different answer. but yuh, good luck explaining all that to a judge right...

if it was me I would make a couple phone calls. first just to locate the knife and make sure it wasn't "confiscated" into somebodies personal collection. i wouldnt say all that though. just that you wanted to locate the knife that was confiscated by officer_ on _. second I would request that the knife be returned and the misunderstanding be considered a lesson learned. the last thing you can try is to have a officer buddy call for you and request the knife be returned.

if $60 bucks is worth a few phone calls to you then i'd say put $60 worth of effort into getting the knife back.
Posted By: tedwca

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 04:43 AM

In the parks the state rule usually applies. CA law states that any size fixed blade not openly work on your belt is a FELONY. Oddly, a concealed firearm without a CCW is a misdemeanor in most areas(Some locales are much stricter)

The other odd thing is there is no size restriction on fixed blades as long as they are openly carried on the belt. There is a guy here in town who is known for carrying a sword on his daily walk. The cops all know him because people call him in all the time, but unless he brandishes it there isn't anything they can do to him.

I would consider myself lucky and buy a new knife.
Posted By: tedwca

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 04:48 AM

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The knife laws seem to be vague and really up to the officers or the judge. A folder of ANY size? All the LEO's I know said nothing over 3" and all the Cali forum people I know say nothing over 3.5"!
I have a BM mini barage that I took the assist out of (I love it!). The auto assisted knife is "legal" in Cali, but I know of two people that had theirs taken away from them because they were assisted.

I also think it depends on the County, I think Los Angeles (where I live...jealous?) and San Francisco are much different than say Bakersfield.

MM

Statewide law does not have size limits on either fixed or folders, but does state that fixed blades must be openly carried on the belt. County ordinances are quite different thought and LA has the worst. Here in Northern California you'd have to be very obvious to attract attention of the law.
Posted By: DogTired

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 07:10 AM

Glad I'm in VA. I see guys walking into Walmart with Sigs on their hips, I carry a 9mm in my waistband or a 45 under my jacket and a swamp warden or scrapivore in my pocket. It's all good and legal. Want a CCW license? A hunter safety course at $20 gets it for you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Ireash

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 08:58 AM

Quote
Im not sure if this is the right place but here it goes. So I was in the National Forrest and we came across a ranger. He asked if we had any illegal weapons, I told him I had a knife in my pocket. So he searched me and pulled my scrapivor out of my pocket. He said I was concealing a weapon and he confiscated it, only giving me a warning. Is there a way I can petition to get my knife back or is it lost to the cracks of our government?

That blows. Where were you at? I think mike is right though. The problem is you had it concealed and it is a fixed blade. I have come across many rangers with a 45 and a SOD strapped to my side and have never even been hassled.
Posted By: SkunkHunter

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 09:40 AM

Gun and knife laws are ALMOST ALWAYS written by those who never use either one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: shoonmine

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 10:00 AM

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Here in Northern California you'd have to be very obvious to attract attention of the law.

I was in Northern California actually and we were at a camp ground and a ranger came to check on us. pretty much to give us hard time in my opinion. But Ive learned a valuable lesson on what not to do.
Posted By: shoonmine

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 10:18 AM

Quote
Glad I'm in VA. I see guys walking into Walmart with Sigs on their hips, I carry a 9mm in my waistband or a 45 under my jacket and a swamp warden or scrapivore in my pocket. It's all good and legal. Want a CCW license? A hunter safety course at $20 gets it for you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Im originally from Va, and your right about that. Shoot if you dont want to conceal it you can carry it in the open on the hip without a permit and wont be bothered. Big Difference in 3000 miles.
Posted By: Mastiff

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 09:44 PM

Quote
Gun and knife laws are ALMOST ALWAYS written by those who never use either one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

And because they don't use one, neither should you. Thing you have to remember is they know better and you're just a stupid war mongering redneck that's to ignorant to know right from left.
Posted By: tonester

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 10:57 PM

Quote
In California you can only carry a fixed blade on your belt. The crazy thing is that you can conceal any size folder.

You are actually luck you were not charged for concealing a dirk/dagger style knife (fixed blade with not hand guard). That is a fellony. You can consider your lost knife a knowledge tax.

If you are new to California you should give this a read:

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/f...e3774/1/hilite/

It will save you a lot of greif.

this is true. conceal carrying any sized fixed blade is a felony in California. even if you are wearing a neck knife and it is under your shirt. you either want to be carrying it around your neck outside of your shirt or in a sheath on your belt without your shirt covering it.

the funny thing is, if you have a loaded handgun that is legally registered to you however you do not have a CCW to conceal carry, it is only a misdemeanor if you are caught carrying it concealed. but if you get caught carrying a 3" fixed blade neck knife, thats a felony no matter what.
Posted By: gun dog

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/28/12 11:07 PM

Maybe if you threaten to take a chainsaw to the parks trees<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: jdigi101

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/29/12 12:54 AM

Quote
Quote


Here in Northern California you'd have to be very obvious to attract attention of the law.

I was in Northern California actually and we were at a camp ground and a ranger came to check on us. pretty much to give us hard time in my opinion. But Ive learned a valuable lesson on what not to do.

Now you have a case my friend. Your campsite is considered a temporary residence. In California you can carry any type of legal knife (not double edged or knuckled) and any registered and loaded firearm openly or concealed while occupying your perminant or temporary residence.

You need to contact the ranger station and request your knife back. Did you get the ranger’s name?
Posted By: tedwca

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/29/12 09:41 AM

Quote

Now you have a case my friend. Your campsite is considered a temporary residence. In California you can carry any type of legal knife (not double edged or knuckled) and any registered and loaded firearm openly or concealed while occupying your perminant or temporary residence.

You need to contact the ranger station and request your knife back. Did you get the ranger’s name?

California doesn't discriminate against double edged knives, but they do with knuckled blades. A lot of people believe double edged knives are illegal but when the knife laws were rewritten in the late 90's they changed the definition of dirk/dagger to not be specific to double edged blades. Neck knives are a gray area as the penal code specifically says open carry at the waist. There have been cases where people were arrested for carrying a knife openly in other locations.

Quote
Penal code Part 6/Title 3/Division 5 - Defines what is a legal pocket knife and what is illegal, by types, e.g. a switchblade and gravity or ballisong knife(PC 17235). Pocket knives, most likely those would be the folding knives are legal, while switchblades, gravity and ballisong knives are illegal.
PC 16470 - Deals with the street carry laws. Basically, you can not carry a dirk or a dagger, definitions below, and more importantly, can't carry folding knife in open/locked position - ...only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position. Therefore folders, carried closed and concealed are legal. No length limitation.
PC 21510 - deals strictly with switchblades, making it a misdemeanor to carry upon a person, or possess in a car, or in a public place, sell, loan, transfer, give, expose for sale, a switchblade knife.
There are other penal codes dealing with knife carry in specific places. Those are: penal code 626.10 which deals with the knife school carry rules. There is also penal code 171.b which deals with the knives in public buildings.

State California allows for concealed carry of the folding knives and there is no limit to the blade length. As long as the knife is not banned by PC 16100-17360 or in Part 6/Title 3/Division 5, it is legal. Division 6 of the same title bans knuckles, division 7 bans nunchakus and so on. 17235 does not make Assisted Openers(AO) illegal. However, depending on the particular AO mechanism and other details some AOs may fall under switchblade category. Kershaw Speed Safe is not one of them, it is perfectly legal, details further down. As far as the state law goes, fixed blades must be carried openly, in the sheath, on the waist. I can't find where does the law ban either double edged blades or dirks and daggers. As the wording is, those are ok for open carry. No knives longer than 2.5"in the school, but folders are ok in the Universities and Colleges. Unless, they were banned by local authorities. No knives longer than 4" in public buildings or buildings open to public meetings, e.g. courts, city halls, police stations, city council meetings, etc.


http://zknives.com/knives/articles/law/caknifelaws.shtml
Posted By: tedwca

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/29/12 09:46 AM

I do have a question about something I've seen in this thread about REGISTERED guns. I've been in CA for almost 30 years now and bought many guns and I've never had to register a single one. Perhaps I'm interpreting REGISTER in a different way than is meant in these posts. To my way of thinking I've seen other states where you have to fill out separate paperwork to register a gun to you that is different from the federal forms when you originally buy the gun.
Posted By: SkunkHunter

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/29/12 10:18 AM

TED, I can't of course speak for California, but used to here in Missouri you had to apply for a PERMIT TO PURCHASE a (handgun). It WAS NOT a registration form (but of course could be used to trace serial numbers) as when the firearm was purchased and returned to the office of issuance it was recorded in a book with the name of the purchaser, make, model, serial number, caliber and when it was purchased. Here the book was kept in the File drawers and was USUALLY only looked at when someone had one stolen and didn't know the serial number.

FYI.
Posted By: Renee

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/29/12 02:38 PM

That really stinks, it is hard to believe some of the laws they have on knives!
Posted By: gun dog

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/29/12 11:24 PM

My dad was a park officer/ranger. He said any time you take personal property you must give a receipt and then write a report and register the item in the evidence room. He said to go ask for a receipt and the possibility of getting you property back. If the item is not in the evedence lock up you can take up the issue with the parks management. State the day, area, and time you were stopped and they should know which ranger it was that stopped you. If there is no paper work or the knife is not in evedence then the officer stole you knife and there should be disciplinary action against that ranger for stealing evedence and personal property. Good luck.
Posted By: tedwca

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/30/12 02:49 AM

Quote
TED, I can't of course speak for California, but used to here in Missouri you had to apply for a PERMIT TO PURCHASE a (handgun). It WAS NOT a registration form (but of course could be used to trace serial numbers) as when the firearm was purchased and returned to the office of issuance it was recorded in a book with the name of the purchaser, make, model, serial number, caliber and when it was purchased. Here the book was kept in the File drawers and was USUALLY only looked at when someone had one stolen and didn't know the serial number.

FYI.

Nope, there is nothing like that here. At least at a state level.

Yeah, the ranger probably kept the knife, but is it worth the possibility of a felony record to push the issue for a $50 knife? Either way you would not get the knife back and one of the options has a long term effect on you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> It is true he should have given you a receipt for it, but then he would have had to chrge you also. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/30/12 03:11 AM

From what I know of California's weapons laws, they stink. But, my actual experience there has been OK. I recently camped out in the Redwood Forest (not in a national park, but a national forest) and a National Forest Service officer visited my campsite. He asked a few questions, but they were mostly aimed at the fact I didn't have a campfire permit. He overlooked the fact I didn't have one since he deemed my firepit safe and I had all the right answers. He also didn't bat an eye when I pulled a Dogfather and 6.5 Reg out of my pack. He even told me about a little known water fall for the next night of camping.
Posted By: 2tonyb

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/30/12 05:46 AM

Confiscated without any charges or record? This is a good example of someone taking advantage of their position. The knife shouldn't have been "confiscated", it should (not that I agree) have been held as evidence. It should then be up to a court to disposition the evidence. Don't let the cops bully you. Many of them don't understand the laws any better than you.
Posted By: monsterdog

Re: How to get my knife back? - 03/30/12 06:56 AM

Did he take the sheath as well? If so that could be a good reason to call some people to get the sheath back. That would also require the park ranger to be honest and not keep the knife for himself.

If this was me I would consider it a lesson learned and paid for. Then I would buy another Scrapivore while they are available and donate an equal amount of money to Knife Rights to become a member.

Then I would email Doug Ritter of Knife Rights and ask him for their plans for supporting a knife preemption law in California. So far they have had good luck in a lot of states, making any knife legal and making it impossible for local ordinances to be able to overrule state law.
Posted By: shoonmine

Re: How to get my knife back? - 04/03/12 03:58 AM

Thanks for the feedback and all the info. It may be lost to the justice system but I have learned a lot from the experience.
Posted By: gun dog

Re: How to get my knife back? - 04/03/12 04:38 AM

Hope it never happens to anyother dogs or you ever again.
Posted By: shoonmine

Re: How to get my knife back? - 04/03/12 08:23 PM

A new Scapavor may have to wait though, the new Busse Magnum Bear Cub looks like my next purchase if Im lucky enough to get one. But then again if I dont I could buy at least 2 Scrapavors for what that shiny infi`s going cost.
Posted By: SkunkHunter

Re: How to get my knife back? - 04/03/12 08:28 PM

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Thanks for the feedback and all the info. It may be lost to the justice system but I have learned a lot from the experience.

Joshua, working in law enforcement I am hesitant to call what happened to you justice. Yes, the law may say NO FIXED BLADES... but he could have just Warned you without taking your knife.

Unfortunately in the justice system sometimes there isn't really any justice, just the law.
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