Recommend a knife test... and a knife to compare

If scrap yard is as good as everyone says it is... I want to see it with my own eyes.

I have a 1311, 911 and I'm willing to buy a 711.

Tell me an "average" knife of similar size to buy

(e.g. 711 vs USMC Ka-bar ... SOG, Cold Steel, ESEE, becker... etc)

and then recommend a test. Chopping wood, chopping steel, cutting... whatever.

1311 vs any machete you can find.


I think anything the other machete will take.

Boy, that's a tough one. You might solicit Horn Dog as he is our resident Chopmeister!

True but thats sheet metal vs 1/4" metal. Obvious win. The kabar isn't that far behind the 711 in thickness. It's a better comparison

IF you can find one (don't know if they are still in production or not) you might try a CS Recon Scout.

AND for a longer one, the CS Trailmaster.

OK I'll give you that Wacki but it would have been fun to see.

The 1311 is 3/16th thick

Seems to me that easiest thing would be to buy a BK-9 and do a chop off with the 911 and see what you think. I can't imagine Vic didn't have a Becker in one of his chop offs, but stink with the search function here.

FWIW, I spend less time thinking about what's best vs. what I like more personally. I have a mix of knives that I'm very happy with- some from the Yard, some from makers you mentioned and some customs.

Try an ESEE Junglas vs the others.

Sounds like an interesting test. I would pit the Condor Golok against the 1311 along with an 18 inch Ontario machete. The 911 would be paired against the CS Trailmaster.

One thing to consider during these so called 'tests' is the skill of the operator. Some folk are very good at chopping while others offer up lackluster performance. Then there are just the average folks that probably could get away with using the simple Tramontina and not really know (or care) about the difference.

To my mind, the 1311 would be very tough to best at a chopping contest against a similar sized blade and weight.

Those knives are clearly winners for chopping/batoning/digging/general-camp-stuff. Maybe not so much for filleting small fishes <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Your system should probably have 2 knives, a small utility knife and a larger all-round knife.

Also consider the grinds and compare cutting ability after use. I think you will see a clear advantage in edge holding for SR-101 compared to AUS-8 or whatever those other brands use these days.

If the 711 is close to the SOD I think a Cold steel ReconScout is a blade of the same size but the trail master is a little to big. The Trail master is better to compare with Swamp rat M9.

My cold steel recon scout is a real workhorse, I can't say anything bad about it.
(used it to dig, work, chop, batonning,pry,throwing...)

But if I think to compare it with the SOD, the ReconScout will be out gunned by the SOD for sure !


just my 2 cents,

Try an Ontario Ranger series or Rat in a similar size. That was what sold me on Bussekin--my Dogfather chopped circles around my OKT Ranger 9.

Now, my 5160 Ranger 9 from Justin is a different story. I like that one just as much as my DF <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> There's a few brands/makers that I consider relatively on par with Bussekin, although Bussekin are generally my got to blades.

Ontario, I would never buy another.

1311 vs lightsaber.

Get a rig made up and do a mechanical chop off to failure. 711 vs ka-bar sounds like a fair comparison.

What I was thinking <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I'm actually game for this. Free weights + pulleys + steel arm for consistency.

Chop wood? Or steel? Concrete?

Go till it can't slice paper?

I'm more than happy to execute a "scientific" test. Noss's destruction tests were entertaining but I prefer accuracy over thrill value.


I'm spending a ton of money on Busse, Swamp and Scrap Yard and I would like to prove to myself that I'm getting something extra for my money.

Sounds like a good test. But I can tell you from experience the kabar knives I have had are good but not kin good.

The Ka-Bar was designed to be a fighting knife first. It really isnt a good comparison.

Maybe a Becker BK-7 vrs a 711

Given the fan fare on the forums, I'm willing to believe you. I think I've dropped >2K on Busse-kin blades kydex sheaths so far. So tell me how to prove to myself that it was not in vain.

Give me a quick ... do this in an hour test. Or a long scientific & controlled test. I don't care. Just give me a way to prove it to myself.

So what steel is the bad ranger 9 made from?

Looks like these are the most likely candidates:

711 vs Becker BK-7
711 vs CS Recon Scout.
911 vs CS Trailmaster.
911 vs BK-9
911 vs OKT Ranger 9

Now I need to come up with the test.

Recon scout is $118.30 via amazon
Becker BK7 is $79.55 via amazon

Scrap yard 711 is $139.95 + shipping

The price difference isn't that much. My gut tells me I should do Becker BK7 vs the Scrap Yard 711.

Becker vs scrapyard 711 sounds like a good start. Have you decided on the test?

No. I need ideas for the test.


I just purchased the 711 btw.

Wacki:

On almost ANY forum, the blades of the manufacturer (owner of that forum) will be highly touted. This is a given. But if you will sort of "read between the lines" you will see that the Dogs don't pull any punches. We use and abuse our blades and report the findings, good or bad. ONE reason is Dan's honesty and his warranty. If you tear up a blade, and send it to him for replacement it gives him something to look at and study and helps him to improve his product.

Yes, there may be less expensive blades out there that will do just as good a job, but one thing remains uppermost, Dan's Warranty and his honest desire to learn from blade failures.

SOME "Lemons" will fall through the cracks, but they are always turned into oranges by Dan IF you will only let them know.

I think that after you have competed your testing you will find that Scrap Yard knives ARE worth the money and hype we give.

Randy

If you want a REAL test, go out and pretend you don't have use of your legs. Jam your knife between some rocks, into a tree, anything and use the blade to pull yourself up off the ground. Abuse, possibly, but if the knife doesn't fail at this, you can be reasonably sure it will hold up in almost any situation you can put it into. Use it for a prybar, dig a hole with it. Chop, hack, slice your way through a wall with it and see how it holds up.

Are these things unrealistic, probably, but they ARE part of a possible End Of The World As We Know It scenario.

Just some thoughts.

I agree with SkunkHunter, the value of the knives overhere is mostly because most of them are "limited in numbers" , most of them proof to be exactly the tool for what it is made and even more, the warranty, community,...

I must be honest I own lots of knives not only busse/swamp rat/scrapyard knives, but afther learning more about knives, steel,hardening/heat treathment I prefer the kin knives!

Also let's be honest they are gorgeous !!!

The cold steel ReconScout is a great knife , if you got one of the old productions. It is a good camping knife, also for the bigger work.
If you ask me if I would trade my trusted ReconScout for another SOD, the answer would be: " yes in a second "

greets,

I don't feel the need to "destruction" test any of my Busse/Swampy/Yard blades to satisfy myself simply because so many other people have already done it for me. I do understand that you want to be sure you spent good money for the extra performance but the reality of the situation is that at some point you do need to trust all the information that is already out there or you can keep going in circles. I have lots of Busse at home, more than some less than others but certainly enough $$ wise to buy myself a new car if it were all sitting there as $s. The very simple fact is that the VAST majority of us will never ever require the blades we buy to perform at that fullest and no amount of unscientific testing will now show much more than is out there.

Simply testing a single blade (eg 1x 711)is subjective in that that blade may be a stellar example of the breed or it may be the rare lemon, the testing will only relate to that single blade. To make such testing worthwhile you would need to test 5 or 10 x 711s in the same manner and average the results. I have some background in weapon trials and procurement BTW.

I agree with AtA. If you really want to do a stellar test, you have to invest way more money that you probably want to.

Also, it depends on what you want to know? Destruction tests are overdone. Who cares when or if it breaks. The warranty will cover it. So don't worry about that, plus, like AtA already said, destruction tests have been done. If you want to know about edge holding, their will definitely be differences among CS and SYKCO, but remember even if you compare the SOD and 711, there will be differences because they're different steels. Chopping and slicing and point strength might be where you want to start though.

Here's the deal, start with sharpness and edge holding. Test how both blades cut the same delicate material. Then do a chop off with, say for example, 2x4s. Then see if they still cut the same delicate material as before. Then if you want, to you can test the tip strength, but both the recon scout and 711 are hefty, so it shouldn't be much of a test. You also might want to know which knife has better ergonomics. Keep in mind your comfort level as you chop.

The cold steel ReconScout chekered handle is a little rough first day of use but it gets softer afther a some workout with the knife.


grts,

Shoot them with a 22lr and work your way up to a Howitzer.

Take the small pieces, if you can find any, and load them into a 12 gauge shells. Fire them at armor plating. I highly recommend eye pro at minimum for this test. Then examine the marks left by the different blade fragments.

No point in doing the same old destruction test for the umteenth million time.

maybe you should just shave some paper with them instead of doing anything I ever tell you.

No, I think you should go with JJ's original test.

A lot of us end up here because they were let down by their "hard use" blades in the past and wanted something guaranteed to stand up to whatever they intend to dish out to their steel. I'd been let down by OKT and BRKT on performance and had heard too much about blade failure of other brands to want to sink anything else into something I might not be able to trust. I've had good luck with Justin Gingrich's blades and ESEE, but have never been personally let down by a Bussekin. I've personally seen a bussekin with some serious issues, but I've also seen Dan step in and ask to make it right. I've had issues with edge holding, but that went away after a good reprofiling.

Like Skunk noted, every company--no matter how good their quality control--will have an occasional issue. If it's a pattern, that's cause for concern. If it's the rare exception, that's ok in my book. Scrap Yard blades are comparable in price to a lot of other production blades but I feel much more confident with them than others. I haven't found a lot of negative stuff about bussekins, aside from the occasional comments on pricing (especially of Busses)--not a lot of "my knife failed while batoning" or "the heat treat sucks" or anything like that. To me, that says something. Not scientific, but a lack of negative comments compared to the numbers of negative comments on other producers seems like a meta-measurement of quality <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Now this I gotta see!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />