carrying knives for self-defense

In this day and age when most states issue a conceled carry permit for a handgun, how feasable is it to carry a knife for self-defense in the urban jungle. Does anyone here, knowing that most states have a restriction of usually 4 inches, carry one every day.

I carry a knife everyday. Even if I am carrying a handgun (yes I have a permit) but it's a folder. The scrap yard fixed blades I purchase are just for outdoor use. If any of the Busse family ever release a folder again I'll probably get two. one to carry and one for a back-up.

I carried my DM pretty much everyday till i lost it

so you break the law everyday bld? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> haha.

i think we all carry knives with the knowledge of what we are actually carrying... we are carrying a sharp piece of steel that CAN be used as a weapon to kill someone, we all know this, but some of us more than others gloss this over and never think of their knife as a weapon.

i personally carry for Self defense and utility. i have one blade that i never use for anything except in the event of its use for SD should arise. this blade is my busse scotch dispenser. fantastic self defense knife for a few reasons.. right off the bat - ITS MADE OF THE TOUGHEST STEEL OUT THERE - INFI!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> secondly, its low profile style makes it easy to conceal and the ringed grip makes it [censored] near impossible to get it out of my hand. i also carry a spyderco cricket for EDC/utility. this blade is sheeple friendly and can cut more than i thought it could, intially.

so yes. i carry with self defense in mind. for this purpose, i carry the busse scotch dispenser. i also carry for utility purposes, the spyderco cricket. i also have a Tennessee handgun carry permit that entitles me to carry a firearm. for that purpose, i carry a Glock 26 (the best ccw 9mm i have ever seen or owned). but when i go to school, or go other places where i cant hide my gun, i ALWAYS have my busse scotch dispenser on me. my ideology is that you should always have something on you that you can use to defend your life with, and that thing should be able to match the threat of someone else's weapon to some degree. for instance, about the only thing someone is going to pull on me and one-up me is going to be a gun. with my busse, i can defend my life with it if i should ever have to. but i think that the most important facet of SD is not going in areas that are bad and being smart. using your head. good thread though.

I carry a fixed blade and a folder every day. Indiana has no length/carry restrictions, and in Texas it’s 5.5” blade length. Know your state law: Knife laws of the 50 states

I carry a knife as a backup tool most of the time and a primary tool for those times when carrying a firearm is not a viable option. I have been studying various knife related self defense systems for about 5 years now. Prior to getting formalized training, I was a member of the "don't bring a knife to a gun fight" crowd. I now realize the lack of understanding that old adage demonstrates.

I never carry a knife with self defense against people in mind, in towns I usually carry my little TOPS Wolf Pup but just in case I am required to cut something. In the forest however self defense against bears,cougars and dogs that owners can't control is always in my mind when deciding which knife to carry !!!

First off, let me say I do carry a folder.

Things would have to be B-A-D before I'd consider using it in self defense though.

My daily carry is a Glock 37 that's been trimmed to match the G17 longslide I've carried for the previous 8 or 9 years.

When I was doing such things - and much younger - we got a lesson on knife fighting. You know what I came away from that understanding? If you get into a knife fight, the one that is called the winner is the one bleeding slightly less. No thanks.

So if someone does something that makes me say "I've got to force him to stop that RIGHT NOW", I'm not going to put myself in a position to get cut up. That's what the Glock is for.

One of the courses I took was at Front Sight - and one of the best things they provided at Front Sight was the after-shooting education. For me, I'd MUCH rather have a grand jury look at pictures of a dead guy still holding a knife and then me with the slightly less weighty magazine in the Glock...... than have that grand jury look at pictures of a body that would be more appropriate to a slaughterhouse or a Tarrentino flick, and have to say "honestly Judge, I had to stab him 28 times to get him to stop!".

As always, this opinion is worth at least double what you paid for it.

hey brother, if i lived in Los Angeles, i would break the law everyday too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> keep in mind you can be jumped or mugged and the assailants can be on top of you without you even knowing it. if that happens its always nice to have a sharp piece of sr101 or INFI to stick in them, or so i would imagine. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I think Bravo762 summed it quite well.

With me, it's strictly for utility.

My blade will draw blood only AFTER I've exhausted avoidance, the ability to run, and two empty magazines of 40 S&W.

over the years, I have spent a lot of time and $$$ on training with a handgun and while skilled knife fighting it itself an art, it is not for me.

That said, I am lucky to live in Kentucky. Our CCW (Concealed Deadly Weapons License) covers it ALL. Fixed blades, automatics, Nunchaku, ASPs, saps, billys, brass knuckles, and even throwing stars!

ouch dude!!!


I carry 3 knives

2 for work and the other for play

simple as that

laws are meaningless to me when it comes to my families and my own saftey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7UZFBNYYVA&feature=related


I carry a griptilian for its useability and cutting power and a sak camping.
Some days I got with a leek of one of my multitools, small fixed blades a neckers are open to.
No blade length carry limit here.

u can carry brass knucks??? im moving to KY. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

leatherface - i agree with your disdain for laws in repsect to your safety.

"useability"
lol

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/footinmouth.gif" alt="" />

(jk man)

I carried for a long time (my griptilian) but being still a high school student, its not advisable. I go to a private school, so things a lot more lax, but I still would get a little slap on the wrist if I used it irresponsibly. A good friend of mine somehow got ratted out to the establishment about his UZI folder (not a sheeple friendly knife). On the other hand, he was always very responsible about it, so its kinda a mystery. Anyway, I didn't carry for a long time after he got in trouble, but now I have my Leatherman surge in my backpack all the time, and a SAK on my person. Being of athletic build but not a big guy, I figure that running is probably my best option; my Krav Maga teacher calls it the "Nike Defense". Anyway, I since my Grip broke, I don't have a small folder for EDC, so I need to remedy that soon. I always carry when I go on school camping trips, or when I know I'll being doing community service with the school around town. I also take technical theater (lighting, sound, fabrication) as a class, and our teacher strongly encourages us to have multi-tools. I find that my leatherman can do any task better than a tool created solely for that purpose. Then again, a pair of needle nosed pliers is $5, and my leatherman is $80, but I digress

I wish I went to a private school, you get to carry knives. If you get caught with a knife here you get expelled.
I'm not rich though so my parents cant afford it.

I suprised your krav maga instructor told you that; I was once told by a krav maga teacher that you should fight to protect anything, even the soil you walk on.
I was kind of suprised since it is such a down to earth martial art.

krav maga is reality-based and in reality you are a lot more likely to survive if you can avoid direct confrontation. Some things will always be worth fighting for but most things are not. Not losing the fight you avoided is a lot better than winning the fight you could have avoided. Like one of the guys said earlier, "winning" just means you are slightly less damaged than the other guy.

how old are you cloak and how old are you macgreggor?

we are about the same age

18? 17? am i supposed to know this? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I think cloak is 17 and I'm a year younger then him.

i carry a gun for self defense & a knife for utility

i look as scary and poor as possible for self defense.

I cary a knife or two or three or sometimes....anyways, every day every where. but I have have them just for utility. but they would make wounderful tools for SD if the unfortunate need aver arised.

well stated <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In Wisconsin I carry my Dog Father Limited Edition in my Rainwalker bandoleer,with my SS-4 cross draw on my left first belt loop. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

We in the great state of Wisconsin have NO LENGTH LIMIT as long as you carry
the knife in question IN THE OPEN. UNCONCEALED!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" />

It MUST be recognized as a knife by citizens and LEO's all.

So I gladly wear my finest Scrap Yard Knives and Rainwalker Leather Creations EVERY DAY in the open in Delavan Wisconsin. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Neat Huh?

NO CONCEALED CARRY AT ALL!!! A handgun is a Felony! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbdn.gif" alt="" />

And even though they lobby hard in the state Senate every year, they liberals beat down a concealed carry option of any kind. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

Till then I am forced to wear my knives on me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Peace.

i can carry folders concealed, but never consider my knife a self defense weapon unless, like pitman, i'm in the woods and it is animals i'm concerned about. at any rate, around town, i have mostly been carrying my bradley alias 1, but also carry my protech runt, an older benchmade, or my spyderco walker. when hiking or camping, i always take a fixed blade, or two, along with a folder and a multitool. but again, self defense isn't my goal, but i do realize that i have something on me that can cause great bodily harm, and i respect it as such, and hope that i never find myself in a situation where i am faced with the decision to cut or not to cut a person.

mac was correct Reconseed, in respect to our ages.

Mac: I'm not sure if Krav disciplines vary from group to group, but we had two instructors. The first was a world-renown Karate (i believe, may have been Kung-Fu) master that gave up a lifetime of work in the discipline when he realized that it didn't actually prepare students for real fights. He took up Krav Maga shortly after. Our other instructor, an awesome guy (250 pounds, very little body fat), was a SWAT team leader. It was the latter individual that I was quoting. The 'dojo' Sharp and I used to attend (school and soccer season stopped my attendance, sadly) also taught a lot of people basic survival fighting. For a, say, 40 year old women who wants to learn how to buy enough time to escape from a man trying to assault her, running away is almost the best option. Also, as a police officer, he would know that some people rush into fights because they've had training and think they can take anyone, so he wanted to instill the idea that fighting should always be a last resort no matter how good you are. I'm reasonably fit, and i'd probably have a knife, but i know that beating up the other guy is far less important that coming home to my family alive.

that said, if someone came to my school looking for trouble, I'd like to think I'd do something rather than let it happen. On a philosophical note, i suppose everyone THINKS that they'd be the one to do something, but... lets hope I never have to find out if its in me.

In the US it seems that you get in a lot less legal trouble if you use a handgun for SD than a knife. In Canada you simpply cannot legally carry a handgun unless you are a cop or on the way to or from the range with a liscence that specifically allows handguns. I have a liscence where I am not even allowed to buy any more guns I can only keep the ones I do have and by ammo. We do have a lot looser laws about knives but self defence is pretty much illegal. If a cop asks you why you have a knife and you say SD you will be arrested and most likely get a lifetime firearms ban as well.

It is not all bad though. You can carry any size knife you want concealed or not so long as you don't intend to use it as a weapon. If you happen to be attacked it is legal to use it to defend yourself. Now just because it is illegal to carry a handgun it is just as easy to get an illegal one as in the US so you are quite likely to face a handgun when you just have a knife.

This also is not as bad as it seems. This will come as a shock to some of you but at the kind of ranges most crime related gunfights happen(within 20 feet) a knife is just as useful and deadly as a handgun often more so. Also the guy with the gun is probably not an expert marksman he may even be holding it sideways.
Most amateurs expect the gun to do all the work. There are some very good tactics for bringing a knife to a gunfight and winning.

There was a famous study done in the US where they took 40 experienced cops and had them face an attacker they knew in advance was going to attack them with a knife. 39 of them failed the only cop who passed happened to be a black belt.
The reason was they all went for their gun. A healthy man can cover 14 feet in 1 second from a standing start. Even backpedalling and knowing what would happen
they all failed. The black belt however got off the attackers line and then had plenty of time to get his gun out.

The point was that if you focus only on your gun you are dead. It is just a tool it is up to you to win the fight.

I have a lot of knives but my current favourite SD knife is nearly perfect. It is the Spyderco Mule team knife with a simple paracord wrap. It is very light and flat so it can be very easily concealed. It is the sharpest knife I own and is less than half as thick as the thinnest Scrapper. It's wide leaf blade would make huge hacking cuts.

Here is a photo of my Mule team knife that I have in pristine condition as a collectible. I can't wait for the Mule2 which will be made of CPM M4 steel but these ones are 52100.
http://picasaweb.google.com/Lance.G.Davis/SmallFixedBlades/photo#5185451129763944770

Here is a photo of a few nice small fixed blades including my Wrapped Mule under the satin SS4.
http://picasaweb.google.com/Lance.G.Davis/SmallFixedBlades/photo#5185449166963890338

One reason I prefer a knife to a handgun is it takes more inner strength and will to actually cut a man's throat than it does just to shoot him. I think that if people carried knives rather than guns there would be less people killed over petty squabbles. However that is also the knife's biggest weakness for SD.
It is quite hard to get over what you actually have to do even if your life is in danger.

A piece of advice that I've heard is that you should only describe a knife as a tool -- NEVER state that you are carrying a knife for self defense because that makes it a weapon. Even if it's otherwise legal, if your description can be construed as admitting to carrying a weapon, the implied intent to harm others opens up a whole range of probable cause options you'd probably rather not deal with.

That makes sense here in Canada Jim but why is it legal to carry a gun for SD and not a knife in the US?

The laws vary from State to State. Bowies are illegal to carry in Texas, where Jim Bowie died with his knife at the Alamo. Go figure.

I have given the Texas Bowie law some thought. Bowies are very lethal knives. A stab or slash from something like the DFLE would kill you a lot faster than most of the pistols of the time. For all the Colt .45 SAA's there were probably dozens of little derringers and pocket pistols and unreliable cap and ball revolvers.
From what i know the law about bowies in Texas has been around for a LONG time.
Even nowadays with Hicap 9mm's a stab wound is twice as likely to kill as a gun shot and most stabings are with much smaller knives than the bowies.

Maybe you are not supposed to take a knife to a gun fight because it would be cheating?

Wow that realy sucks. Ive come close a few times to losing my DM. I once tore apart my whole room for like 5 hours looking for it. Turned out it was in my car the whole time.

I hate that sick "I lost my favourite knife" feeling. I went nuts when I found the Strider sheath for my neck knife EMPTY!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> ,it turned up in the driveway but I have not worn it since. I am sending it away for a better sheath along with my other miniStrider.

In general, carrying a gun requires a permit, but as Vic noted, knife laws vary by State, and sometimes even by county or city. They're generally passed as a knee-jerk reaction to a perceived problem rather than an actual one -- the mafia and teen gangs carry switchblades in the movies, so we'll ban them; Asian gangs carry butterfly knives, so we'll ban them too; Mexican gangs carry Bowie knives, so we'll ban them.

Carrying a knife doesn't usually require a permit, but many of the laws are quite general like, "A knife may not be carried as a weapon." Then, they'll classify certain characteristics that automatically classify a knife as a weapon, such as being a fixed-blade, or the way a folder opens, or blade length. However, even if your knife is otherwise legal, making a statement indicating your intent is to carry a knife as a weapon (the "defensive" distinction doesn't matter) then you've crossed the line. As with most things, enforcement is likely to be very selective, but the safest thing to do is always assert that your knife is a cutting tool.

Right on Brother! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

they all sound like pretty good reasons. I have a carry permit also, though carrying a gun everyday is not an easy or convient thing for me to do. I almost always carry a folder of sometype. Either a spyderco endura, or a cold steel 4 in folder. Thanks for the imput guys.

i always carry a folder except at school and i hope and pray i never have to use it on another person but you never know the circumstances

I always carry my C.S. X-2 Voyager, small Case, and small Schrade in my pockets. I would use my knives - or CCW pistol - as an absolute LAST RESORT - the legal nightmares would be terrible.
The only time I even came close to needing my knife for self-defense was when I stopped for gas in Kansas City. While I was filling my tank, a BIG guy started heading directly for me and didn't look very friendly. I gave him a hard look and pulled my X-2 about an inch out of my pocket. He saw me do it, and immediately changed his direction of travel. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I want to get one of those with a plain edge. I'm waiting till I'm back in IN since it's too big to legally carry here in TX.

Ahh those two... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Cloak, M was a fifth dan in Jujitsu and L, shortly after we were there, became SWAT Commander.

Two very cool guys and great instructors.

L was hilarious. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'm sad that they moved so far away and got a really nice big place to practice at. Showers, weightroom, etc, etc. Full gym basically.

Anyways back to the topic of self-d.

I've usually looked at a knife as a tool and still do. Our primitive ancestors rarely, if ever used the knife as a weapon. Many indigenous people all over the world use the knife as a tool rather than weapon. They have blow guns, bows, traps, swords, etc, that work far better as weapons. The knife has been for the longest time a tool.

While it is easily concealable weapon, one must remember that in times of emergency one will forget all that they are carrying and only remember the importance of their own will.

If that makes any sense, I'm trying to say that if anyone of us do get in a sticky situation, we will most likely forget that our knife is IWB, and immediately use whatever is in range that we can see as a means of defense. Which would be our own body and mind.

Unless we're highly trained individuals in knife fighting who have the muscle memory down so that when SD is necessary, the first thing stance that we get into we would have a knife in one hand.

I admit that sometimes when I'm walking in downtown I do get paranoid and just think "Spyderco in right pocket will come out if some one tries to jump me..."

I have to disagree with you on primitive people not using a knife as a weapon. Actually it was and in many places still is the primary weapon and also the badge of a man. Even though the natives here all have access to guns they stab each other far more often than they shoot. Probably 10 to 1. My towns Penitentary
had a huge prison riot yesterday between 3 native gangs which are split down tribal lines.

Philippines people have a very long tradition of knife fighting that is still practised and quite popular among hard core MBC guys. The traditional syle is considered to brutal even for some army type units because they spend a lot of time teaching how to kill people who are unarmed or not expecting it and even how to best kill a sleeping person. This is perfectly acceptable because any man without a knife is considered an idiot and it is their own fault.

I studied some of the Philopino MBC but I don't like the reverse grip or the low line so a lot of it was not to useful.

Probably the best style of knife fighting to learn is the combatives developed for the WW2 commandos. Col Applegates book "Kill or get Killed" has some excellent advice and is free and legal to download because it is a US military manual. You can find it at "steve's pages".

They use the FS Dagger which is an excellent weapon but I think there are some better choices now. One of the best inexpensive fighting knives is the Buck 119.
Most fighting knives are either good stabbers or good slashers it is very very rare to find a kife that can do both. The 119 is one of those rare knives although I would wrap a bit of hockey tape on the handle.

My current fave concealed fighter is my Mule. A WW2 commando who had confirmed kills of several different men said that you did not hack like a baseball bat or stab but cut preferably the carotid artery beside the wind pipe.

A good knowledge of anatomy is crucial. In a current big trial in our town their was a prison murder(our prison is pretty hairy)committed on behalf of the Hells Angels the victim a former flaming gay contract killer(you can't make this stuff up) was stabbed 184 times by 2 men one of whom is claiming self defence.
If you aim for specific organs it should take a bit less work. To be fair they had very small prison shanks.

A good knowledge of anatomy can also save your life. If you are on the ground and you are being kicked there is an artery on the inside of each leg to aim for and it is like cutting the bottom out of a styrofoam coffee cup.

You don't need or even want a thick knife for a fighter. Most Scrappers are not very good fighting knives. The DFLE and the SS4 are the closest. One knife I just saw that would make a wicked fighter is the Microtech filet knife. It is a huge thin razor blade of a knife. I may pick one up.