Why are uncoated blades more expensive?

I wonder why are uncoated blades (like limited editions) more expensive than coated blades. I saw on Busse Combat the price of a LE can reach even the double of a normal edition for the same model, while I see like the only major difference that the LE is not coated. For Scrap Yard, the price difference is lower, but however, the uncoated LEs are more expensive too.
And I don't understand why... I believe a coated blade requires more time, money and effort to add the coat on it, so normally I think the uncoated blades should be cheaper. Is there something I missed...?

basically because of more work... full height grind compare to the coated saber grind. Satin finish in the LE requires more time. In Busse's case you are paying for the tiger hide handle as well.

The LE's are hand polished to remove the dimples and tool marks in the steel. This takes a bit of work, just ask Horn Dog. The coated blades are not finished at all as the coating hides the imperfections in the steel.

edit: Oi, post-sniped!

The uncoated blades are also finished. That is, the surface of the steel is ground down quite a bit and then polished so it looks nice. The coated or "combat grade" blades are not finished... If you dissolve the coating, the steel is rough from the foundry. There's some pictures floating around on the forum here.

Thanks!

Can a blade be polished by hand (at home), or are powered tools required?

It would take a long time and a lot of work to put a good satin finish on by hand. There are people out there that will do it for you for a small enough fee to where I wouldn't even think about taking on that task myself.

I know from personal experience, nice shiny satin or polished finishes take a lot of time and work... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I really like it when we're given a choice, example the SOD, that makes it a little better if your really having to count the pennies, or if you'd just prefer to go ahead and pay the extra to have that nice shiny finish.

Or if you want both!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Or in the SOD's case All Three choices!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I agree Jeff, and the pricing on the SODs is very reasonable, what gets me is the Busse blades, there is no reason for a blade to cost 100+ dollars more for a satin finsh, $40-$50 is okay, that makes more sense to me.

So may I assume a mirror-like finish takes even longer? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

well, if you did it by hand yes, I think with a grinder it is just a matter of using a different grit

Doing your own satin finish would be a lot easier if you could remove and re-attach the handles easily...but you do need power tools like a belt sander. Without removing the handles it is virtually impossible to get a perfect finish...

I agree with the reasons others have given, but this phenomena seems almost limited to Bussekin knives -- does the pock-marked "natural" finish, which takes so much effort to polish out, result from the special heat treat process?

I am pretty sure most if not all knife makers scuff the blade up before putting coating on it, if you took most any knife coated and stripped it I am sure you will find a rough surface. At least that is what I hear

The competition finish blades, which weren't prepped for coating are quite rough, so I think it's probably part of the Busse manufacturing process.

I stand corrected, that was pure assumption on my part

The pockets in the steel ie... INFI dimples come from the steel foundry when the steel is rolled. Putting a nicer finish like the precision ground stuff would require surface grinding (blanchard) which cost more money.

Most all hot rolled steel will have those pockets and imperfections. They just seem to be deeper and more apparent in INFI.

Thanks for the explanation. Do most production knife manufacturers (like Buck for instance) use steel that's produced by a different process or is precision ground?

I guess what I'm trying to understand is why more expensive knives have a rougher finish. I always assumed that the cryo heat treatment was expensive (and that it caused the dimples), and that the proprietary steel was somewhat more expensive, and of course being manufactured in the US costs more. However, other than just branding, I'm having trouble believing that, especially in the case of INFI, a mirror finish that's standard on most commodity/production knives should add hundreds of dollars to the price of a blade.

Ban,

When somebody like you or Horn Dog do up a blade to make it nice and shiny
looking, do you have to grind much to get the dimples out then? Or do you
leave the dimples in and just polish it up?

DotD
(aka Nascar Dave to those with inside info <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> }

Hi Dave,

I didn't know Nascar Dave hangs out at the yard. It is my opinion that the dimples need to be removed in order to get a nice satin. Dimples under satin look ok but still rough and unrefined to my eyes. The dimples are typically about .015-.025 deep. So if I completely remove dimples from the flats of a .25 thick knife...it usually ends up around .23 or so. They require agressive grinding to get rid of them. Doing it by hand would literally take days.

Most large knife manufacture buy large quantities of steel which are typically surface ground.

hmmmm.... that is very interesting. But if it didn't come out of Jerry's mouth then I won't believe it. I am pretty sure that Jerry has a crew of grinding monkeys to finish and work on the custom shop stuff. Garth is one of them but he is generally too busy managing other things. Jerry is a very smart businessman and would want to control all aspects of his operation. He probably would not want to rely on someone else to chance the quality of his finished products. It just doesn't make sense for Jerry to outsource his finishing when he can have it all done in house. Especially with the amount of knives that are put out between Busse, Scrapyard, and Swamprat.

It's not what it costs him that matters, it's what people will pay that matters. Apparently there are lots of people willing to pay the extra premium for satin finished blades. If you don't like the price, buy a coated blade and finish it yourself(ala Horn Dog) or pay someone else to do it(Ban). I have no desire to do it myself so I either leave the coating on or I pay someone else to do it.

The whole thing in a nutshell, Jerry prices 'em till the hogs squeak! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

(Though in fairness the Busse Combat LE's are often thicker stock than CG's and INFI is very expensive stuff.. The tiger hide is so much b.s. though- Bark River charge a few extra dollars for cool G10's not $40 or so.)

What he said! It is alot easier to apply a nice finish before HT vs after HT.