HANDGUN THREAD!!!

Anyone else like GLOCK's. I bought a G37 at the gun show a couple months ago and I love it, it is my first handgun. Some people don't like .45GAP because they are short, but in fact they are about 10fps faster than a .45ACP in 230 grain rounds. I guess it just depends on what kind of ammo you get. I'll try to post some pics later if I can.

I've got one Glock. It's a Model 23 .40 S&W.

It's been in my CCW rotation since 1995. It's compact and very reliable. That said, I like Sig, Beretta, HK, CZ, and the various 1911 style pistols more than Glock.

Glock is utterly reliable, but they aren't "Sexy". I can't get excited by a Glock. Not by how they look, or how they feel, or how accurate they are. The only thing I LOVE about Glock is the absolute reliability they give.

For that reason alone, I may, at some point pick up a G19 as a companion to my 23.

You're right, they aren't very good looking but they are kinda cool. But you can always count on one to save your life. I love the Kimber 1911's, if I get another handgun, it will probably be a Kimber with the digital camo grips.(I forget what the model is called with those grips)

Quote:
Glock is utterly reliable, but they aren't "Sexy". I can't get excited by a Glock. Not by how they look, or how they feel, or how accurate they are. The only thing I LOVE about Glock is the absolute reliability they give.


I think that my Glocks are "Sexy"! They're simple, reliable, accurate, inexpensive (compared to Sig, HK, or a 1911), lightweight, easy to maintain, find parts for and modify. Besides that, I don't think any bad guy is going to comment on whether your gun is "Sexy" or not, when it's in their face. Now if I could just find a good woman with some of those same traits.

I have a G36 in .45ACP and a G19 in 9mm. Both pistols are close to the same size and feel, and they use the same holster. Glock might not have the curves of other pistols but they are reliable, relative inexpensive, accurate, light, etc. For a carry gun I love them. I did hold a M&P 9c the other day and was pretty impressed. I just don't think I am ready to go from a Glock to a Smith just yet--mags are too expensive.

I posted this on the other side, so I'll post it again here:


A pair of .40 Browning HiPowers in good company.

What can I say? I'm just not a Glock guy.

My experience is a bit different. I had a 19 that was exceptionally easy to shoot accurately. I stupidly traded it for a 19c. I was newer to handgun shooting at the time and kept having feeding problems, yeah I know, limp wristing. It was pretty much the only pistol I have ever had problems with, ok, well I my customized CZ SP-01 did go through a doubling phase when the trigger was a touch too light.

How do the GAP frames compare to the newer SF frames for .45 acp and 10mm?

I picked up a G17 for carry awhile back. The deciding factor for me was the good price to performance ratio. Hard to beat...

They're only THE BEST combat sidearms in the world. Not to mention the most widely used by American LE. In short, I have been a DIE-HARD Glocker for YEARS. Its the only brand of semi automatic sidearms I have owned. I have 11 different models, and two of the 19 and 26's. (G26 is my current EDC, along with my DMCG)

Glocks are unmatched IMO in terms of quality and reliability. IMO, they are the Scrap Yard knives of the gun market. FOr $500 bucks you can get the BEST. Any model, doesnt matter. If its a GLOCK, its a ROCK!

GLOCK <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

They are about the same as a G17, I think para-ordnance makes a 1911 in .45GAP.

the above post being said, GLOCKS are ONLY for people who love em. You will either LOVE a GLOCK or HATE em. Or so I have heard from most. Since the only thing that matters to me is reliability and durability, just look at my knives <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> , I carry GLOCK and GLOCK alone <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

to each his own though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Just dont worry if I run into you down range, and you life depends on MY gear, YOU WILL MAKE IT OUT ALIVE. In terms of reliability, my gear is hard to beat <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey RECON SEED, Im from Rogersville, well the upper part towards Kingsport. Did you go to the Meadowview gun show last week?

my brother called me over the weekend to brag about his new birthday present. He bought himself a Sprindfield XDM in .40. Can't wait to visit him so i can shoot it.

Hey bro! No I didnt go this last time, the year before I did though. Those gun shows have become sad bc you cant get deals, the dealers wanna rip you off. or so it appears.

you need to go to clifton's birthday camping bash on may 22-24. we have the PERFECT spot!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

i carry a glock 19 almost everyday

it's like a hammer---ugly but it works!

The next gun I buy will most likely be a G-19, or G-23. Then the S&W 500, and after that a nice Kimber 1911. mmmmmm I need more money.

I have a G-17 and love it. I want to get the compact .45 glock.

I have a freind in law enforcement who let me fire his Glock .40 at the range. I shot well with it. I have another friend who has just about every Glock made, but as fine as they are, I prefer my SIG P220, Kimber 1911, and Beretta 92FS. For carry, I usually pack a revolver.

YES!

I have shot a lot of different handguns, the Beretta is my second favorite 9mm. A 1911 is a piece of artwork in my opinion.

C'mon Mag, when i saw this thread i was sure that you would have at least a few posts in here...

Mag did have a nice photo though.

seemed to me people were posting their own guns, which isn't what i've been doin in the death chat.

That new Beretta 92 looks awesome!!!!! (the one that's in the JYD death chat thread)

I agree....


SIG pistols are a favorite of mine.

Lately I have gone a bit more "old school"-

I've got several things I would like to try, such as the CZ 75B SA. Also, there are some different triggers for the Glock that are supposed to be nice.

Glock triggers can be made to feel better. Not that hard either.

Nice 2 1/2" 19 BTW. A classic by any standard.

How about a little Country and a little bit Rock and Roll!!

it's all death metal.

Vic, SIG makes a very fine piece, you are right. However, I just cant justify paying nearly double the price of a GLOCK to get a SIG or HK. THey are great pieces but they sure as hell are NOT DOUBLE the reliability and quality. ALl 3 are top of the line though.

Glocks are a great value, that's why so many police departments have switched to them. They are very reliable and accurate pistols. I have had these other models a while, so I'm not going to sell them just to get Glocks.

already in the pic thread but i got this one about 6 months ago. next hand gun i'm hoping to snag is a fnp45.

ANd I dont blame you in the least.... Someday, you will get around to buying one, Im sure <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> But selling firearms to buy others is a bad idea... You always end up regretting it.

Lazi - i LOVE this FN pistol, i seriously thought about buying one a while back but [censored], they are NOT cheap!

This is one of my favorite combinations

Like HD, I like my sig 2 tone p220. But the trigger reach is a tad to long for me without holding it in a sort of twisted grip. Now my Customized 1911a1 and my springfield V10 ultra compact is NICE. but my favorite carry piece is my Sig P225 single stack 9mm that I had customized SEVERAL years ago by John Quintrall out in Kali. Later on when I get a chance I'll post some Pics of my handguns.

If they work why change it's when they stop working that you change.

The CZ 75b SA is an outstanding pistol. I owned one for a long while but ended up having to sell it, and all the rest of my guns }:-( The Kadet kit is a wonderful investment. The SA has a better frame style with a longer beavertail, it also has nice extended ambi safeties. It was my favorite 9mm before I got the angus hobdell customized SP-01.

My next pistol purchase is probably between a g34, a S&W M&P 9Pro, or a Taurus OSS. I wish I could find a local place to rent them all or a local person who can let me try them all at the same time. I would also love to try out a P220 SAO.

Does anyone have the AA conversion for their Glock?

NICE!

i do somewhere.

i was under-whelmed by the reliabilty & put it up. now i gotta find it after the move
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

tried multiple loads, tried running it oily,dry,moderate,w/ high velocity,hyper velocity,standard velocity..

no dice was supposed to be the best out there from what i read..but performed no better than the ceiner

Are you talking about a glock?

Accurate....quiet...and just as effective if you can do your bit...I like this Ruger .22 which shoots very well with Eley sub-sonic ammo....

The subsonics make that suppressed barrel work even quieter. There is a guy here in town who does the supressed Rugers and they are great. I just never got around to getting the required license to buy one.

shooting a sidearm that has a suppressor on it is truly a trip!

Not always, just sometimes <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Actually very rarely for me.

Nice combo. Are you all seeing any wild pigs up in your neck of the woods? I would feel plenty ready with that combo <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Looks like it is suppressed, is it?
Good looking pistol btw.

On the AA Conversion. I had one several years back and it was pretty accurate and pretty reliable. I ended up using it on a trade for something because I figured the money tied up in it and to get extra mags would be better spent on a dedicated .22lr pistol. Now I just got to figure out which one.

negative 2LT

i meant to use this quote


my post was regarding my expierence w/ advantage arms .22lr conversion kits
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

I have one of the Advantage Arms conversion kits for my Glock 19, and it is very accurate and reliable. I shoot Remington Golden Bullets through it, as is recommended for plinking, and CCI Mini Mags for better accuracy. I even shoot the 60 grain Sniper Sub Sonics through it reliably. I've poured thousands of rounds through it and probably only had a dozen malfunctions. Not bad for a .22. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

If I could find a kit with some extra mags I might be tempted to try it again. I need it for plinking and possible rabbit/squeril hunting.

Have you looked into a short trigger for your 220? I put one in my 228 and love it, makes it just a bit of a shorter reach and they aren't that expensive.

I really like my Rugers, but the smoothest action is still my Python! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Pythons--so beautiful, so smooth, unlike us they hold their lines so true.

I like Rugers too! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

This has had slide and trigger mods from our local smithy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Pretty,flashy,and deadly just like my knife collection! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Peace.

pics, klink. pics.

Plus one for the Rugers! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Yeah! let's see em klink!

No hogs yet, but I'm ready even for hogzilla LOL

That is truely a giant pair.

NICE!! I'll take both!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" />

Right now I just can't decide if I should sell my Glock 19 and add some cash to "upgrade" to a 1911 9mm. I can carry the 19 concealed on my 155 pound 6 foot frame and fear I wouldn't be able to pull that off with the 1911. That is why I traded off my 17c for the 19 in the first place.

The 17c was great though, I shot more rounds through it than anything else I have ever owned. 10,000 plus and that is not an exaggeration. Before, I traded it off I added a Lone Wolf tungsten guide rod and new factory spring. I never shot it with the add-ons though.

In all honestly though none of them get as much actual carry time as my Airweight. However, I HATE to shoot the Airweight.

Decisions, decisions. Any thought guys?

keep and carry the gun you're comfortable carrying and shooting.

Don't.

If you want a 1911...keep saving. It isnt like they are going to be affected by any upcoming bans.

You might miss that GLOCK.

Ya, the thing is I'd like to have the 1911 "now" lol. Glocks are pretty easy to find too and there might be a deal on a 1911 for me. Heck, you can walk into 9 out of 10 guns stores around here and pick the model Glock you want for 500-530 bucks. With a CHL you can walk out with it in 5 minutes flat too.

but the airweight has to stay?

9mm 1911 is a pleasure to shoot but you have cut your magazine load by half for a single-stack pistol. I know S&W is coming out with a 9mm in a 1911 this year, so that might warrent a look.

oooh I like handguns I just got one at this point but ti is a spectacular weapon.
It is a Springfield XD-45 acp Tactical. And I LOVE IT.

They cut the capacity down by 40 percent for the 15 round model 19 magazine to 9 round 1911 magazines. I was doing some long range shooting(50 yards) with a 1911 45acp and the 19 and it just couldn't hold a candle to it.

Well, it sure is nice to drop in a cargo/jacket pocket. I wouldn't be able to that with the 19, 17 or 1911.

love the xd45. don't know why, i just do.

Is it another one of those DAO actions? I hate those.

Yes, it is, but they are alot like a Glock. SIGs DAO is very nice.

why the hate vic? why the hate?

i believe the xd's semi cocked action was dubbed single action rather than double action by some arbitrary measure...i have no idea where i read that or the details.

I like a short pull cocked action, not a long pull double action. I have not fired the XD, but I have fired other DAOs and I hate them.

Ok I guess the pull reason will do.

I don't know Mag, I got mine in hand right now and I don't think thare is any further cocking with the trigger pull, just the dropping of all the internal saftey blocks and such, prior to the sear dropping out of the firing pin's way. Now please understand I don't want try to call you out or anything but I am pretty darn sure it is a true SAO.

We all have our ways. I don't even like to fire my revolvers double action. I shoot so much better shooting single action. Every handgun I own has a hammer and can fire single action except my Kel-tec, which I can't hit anything at all with unless it is big and close. I sometimes pratice double action at close range with it and my revolvers. Beyond 10 yds, forget it.

no, no, i wanted it to be perfectly clear that i was extremely unsure of what i was saying and now i stand corrected.

also, i like SAO, so i have one mroe reason to say i like the XD. thanks mr. bond.

If it's like a single action trigger pull, that would be fine. I like the reduced weight and and high capacity of the XD. I need to go try one and see how the trigger feels.

The XD trigger feels great a clean crisp break, in all honesty my Dad and I came to the conclusion that it was just a hair under as far as smoothness to his SIG P220 (a darn fine trigger)that had 2 or 3 thousand rounds and at the time my XD was only at about 600 rounds.

I have a SIG P220, so if the XD trigger is comparable to that, it would be just fine with me. Thinking these were all DAO is all that has kept me away from the XDs. I like firepower. Maybe after my finances recover from Blade, I'll get one.
Gun sales are still strong here.

Here's my Springfield...

Just the basics!

I love 1911s.

Me too! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

vic would this (If you liked the XD enough to get it) be your first polymer frame handgun?! (fullsize handgun at least)
I say you go for it!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I still don't know what my first handgun should be.

I'm thinking the ruger sp 101 in .327 federal mag.
With the .327 I can shoot .32 H&R magnum, .32 S&W long and .32 S&W for cheaper plinking and the .327 for more defensive purposes.
Recently some people were talking about common ammunitions drying up (.38, 9mm .45 etc) so hopefully with this I would always have some availability (in whatever round it may be) if that does happen.
It's also an affordable, accurate, reliable gun, thats relativley light and easy to shoot. (low recoil, but I may get a trigger job on it)

Also I like the sti 9mm.

It has everything I want in a 9mm at the right price.

jbombelli
are all those 100's in the back ground for real

A finely tuned revolver with a reputable trigger job can be more accurate in double action--at least for me. I rarely shoot my revolvers in SA unless it is my SAA. I don't know why but I do prefer a revolver for shooting.

Yes, except for my little Kel-Tec .380. I think I'd feel safer carrying a knife than that little thing. It shoots, but where the bullets go is fairly random. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

eatingmuchface, good luck finding those rounds in a pinch. I like stuff I can buy at Wal-Mart. 357 and 38 special are interchangeable and both can be found at Wally World.

If you want something cheap to shoot 9mm is a good bet. STI makes great guns, which one are you looking at?

I won't trust that gun, I have better chance throwing a fastball. Atleast my arm is reliable

So you are the guy that the gun salesman of the year got to print more money for the government. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

I can hit with my tuned S&W 686+ in double action. But it has a super light trigger and a 6" bbl. I still prefer to shoot SA.....that's the way the USAF taught me to shoot with the combat masterpiece.

Well... my entire business is government contracting, so I guess in a way, yeah. Sorry about that. But people need clean water to drink.

Cool! Just messing with you on stimulating the economy!

where is peasy with the desert eagle pics?

well, I'll see about the availability of .32's at my local shops, because in NJ, you are NOT going to find ammo in wal mart. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

vic, it's really a last ditch kinda gun anyway isn't it?
I'd feel fine placing the barrel onto someone and pulling the trigger a couple of times.

It IS better than nothing after all... I would think.

If I must get that close, why not use the HG55LE instead?

yeah, if i need a gun, i don't wanna have to get that close. i'd run before pullin the trigger.

Imagine, I was looking at the Gp6 I believe.
It really just calls out to me.

I'm wondering where I can get one reasonably priced. reatil is 655$ or so and I only found on for 740$...

could this gun be too good to be true???

Clint! You are making me want to go for that Kimber 1911 I have been lusting after.

You should get yourself some Busse grips for that 1911!

vic, mag... touche' <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'm no combat expert... thats just how I imagined it being used.

Speaking of being close, I remember reading that most defensive shootings happen with in 7 yards... that is pretty close if you ask me.

My apologies, Mr. Bond... I missed your post earlier when I came back. Yes. They are for real. There's $5k there.

That's actually my new desktop picture. Those are my vices. My addictions.

I have been carrying the G36 lately. Nice big bullet hole!

I really like the looks of those grips.

My S&W Model 27 5" brl. It goes out in the woods with me. In OK, I feel completely safe with this revolver.

I posted these over on the Death chat, but here are my two Hand Guns.

First the Sig Sauer SP2340.

Here is my Magnum Research Desert Eagle, chambered in .50AE.

love that sig. loving sumo's pics, too.

that huge muzzle is just awesome.

Ha, yeah mag whenever you get your [censored] to PA, we will shoot em' both.

almost finished with the bike and the weather finally looks like it's turning around so it shouldn't be long.

Lol sounds good dude, I'm just messin' with ya. But yeah, should be fun.

it'll be a nice little appetizer for ridin' to tolly's.

mag, you could head down south some more and stop at my house!

how many knives can you're bike carry??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Wow, P-easy! That Desert Eagle looks amazing!

Well, I picked up my first gun/handgun purchase yesterday. I'm pretty sure most of you will laugh at me, but it's a Hi-Point .380 acp.

Before anyone starts mocking me beyond belief, I have shot guns enough and read enough reviews to fully understand that this gun I just purchased is a very cheap gun. That being said, the reviews I have read said a lot of the same things; those being that these guns are cheap, heavy, ugly, and they keep shooting. Not a lot of complaints about function, just about looks and weight.

That being said, I picked it up and put 100 rounds through it. I had 3 or 4 fail to feeds, but I think it was because of my technique and/or "limp wristing." I've read that these guns require the user to keep their wrists stiff for them to function properly. Anyway, it was fun to shoot, and I now own a gun! I plan on upgrading to something much better in the future, but I'm a college student without much money and I just wanted a "plinking" handgun. Maybe I'll post a picture later, but with all of the nice handguns on here so far, it might not be worth it.:)

Nothing wrong with that DL, no one will mock or laugh here. Your in good company!

.380 is the hardest round to get a hold of where I live, followed by 9mm.

Congrats on the 1st purchase.

no men on the back of the bike. that's the wrong kind of 'stabbed in the back'. not that there's a right kind...

i'd prolly just fly to tolly's. i got my american airlines advantage email today, i could fly there this weekend for $150.

woah mag!

I just meant bring some knives down so we can destroy some trees on the riverbank.

.. besides if I were to come with you on your bike... those little carts that attach to the side are much cooler!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LOL, what a misunderstanding.

That's odd. I've been reading about shortages like this all over the internet, but where I got the gun (in California of all places) they seemed to have just what I needed at a reasonable price. I got two boxes of 50 count Blazer ammo for $15 each, but if I wanted to go cheaper, they had boxes of 50 reloads for $13 each. Maybe they have it in stock here because there are fewer gun owners in this socialist state (I assume I can say that since I live here). I'm just glad I have a gun that I can go out and have some fun with.

oh, hah.

yeah, i was just on midway and basically everything i looked at is either out of stock or real expensive.

what's the story?

Dunno man. I think everyone is stocking up like crazy. That and the military sucks a lot of ammo prolly.

they may take a lotta 9mm and 5.56, but not .45lc.

I think it has to do with Horn Dog's "gun salesman of the year" poster. While ammo seems okay where I live, both gun stores (yes, two in a California college town of all places) said they have had a hard time keeping center fire handguns in stock because of the panic buying. I hope this panic buying is all for nothing. After all, I'm pretty sure we still go by the Constitution, which the US Supreme Court ruled ensures private handgun ownership.

Yeah, and I don't imagine a .380 acp, which people can't seem to find, being a popular military round either.

With the way gun and ammo sales have been booming, I think we can safely assume those who work for these companies are enjoying economic conditions right now!

I don't think there is much they can do about guns anymore. It is ammo they are after now, my dealer said re-loading will no longer be an option soon, and I've heard all sorts of rumors from 5-year primers, to serial numbered rounds.

GAH! What is this country coming to! I've heard that here in Cali they might start background checks every time you buy ammo! Absurd! We, as citizens of this country have been granted the right to own guns and ammo in order to defend ourselves from a corrupt government (as well as anything that threatens our lives)! When is enough, enough? Do people not understand that making it harder for law abiding citizens to purchase guns and ammo does not make criminals care any more about the laws? After all, what kind of criminal thinks, "I want to commit a crime, but I'm going to avoid a 'black market' gun purchase because that's unethical!" What is wrong with people?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I should probably stop typing for a minute so I can cool down on this subject.

Reloading components have sky rocketed lately too. I have given up on looking for small rifle and small pistol primers. Bullets are outrageous too.

I know the Constitution says that we have the right to keep and bare arms; but, ammo is a different thing. I fear the goons in Washington have figured that out. Between BATFE not signing import lic. for cheaper European ammo, the lack of domestically loaded ammo, and the gun salesman of the year we are in for a tough and rough time.

Oh yeah, the US Dollar devaluated abroad can't help either.

Well, this is my 500th post fellas. What to post, what to post.

Here is something for this thread; my Sig and my Desert Eagle in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGsGjgyHJE4

my mayor's after the guns. my local precinct, one block away, takes 45 minutes to get officers to my house in response to a drunk with a bat.

NJ is a toilet.

best 500th post ever.

Hmmm... I guess it's off to the gun store tomorrow to buy some .380 acp's tomorrow!

After hearing what all of you have said, I understand more now why my dad sent off 350 .44 Mag shells and purchased 150 more shells to get a total of 500 .44 mag shells reloaded. The funny thing is that he's only shot about 60 of these rounds through his .44 mag!

Also, how does ammunition not fall into the category of keep and bare arms? Isn't ammo a necessary part of "arms?" Through using common sense, (something that's hard to come by these days) I'd have to say that it only makes sense that ammunition is part of the "arms."

As to domestically manufactured ammo I have a theory on that too. When metal prices were so high, ammo manufacturers only bought enough to get by on. Now there is a lack of ammo from the lack of purchased materials. It will take time to build up inventory of supplies.

I know a lot of people blame the military on the shortage too--nah, ain't buying that. Those contracts are set and agreed on way ahead of time. The ammo manufacturers know what they need for that.

New shooters, ok, maybe some of the problem. I know people who have bought a gun, or guns. since BHO was elected. Hence the salesman of the year.

lastly, I believe the ammo manufacturers did not want to get caught with a lot of inventory in case something does get flushed down the Washington pipe.

Just my opinion.

what's your major, dl?

But is for the children <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" />

i didn't mention my governor cuts state educational funding every year.

Amen to that!

P-easy, how does that Desert Eagle shoot? Does it kick like crazy? I ask because that is a grail gun to me! Heck, if things start to look bad for gun ownership, I may have to save up for one of those for a future purchase. You know what they say, go big or go home!

I'm a mechanical engineering student.

Common sense says that but like you said--not much of it left anymore.

For those the believe in a strict view of the Constitution this is where the liberal view of the Constitution can use it against us. If we are viewing the Constitution as what is written--where is the ammo mentioned. I have listened to a couple lawyers discuss this and what I realized is that we are all screwed no matter what.

What, to not teach them the responsibility and safe handling of guns? Yes, let's make guns a mystical wonder that ignites the flames of curiosity in children instead of teaching them how to safely handle them!

Grab all the .380 you can afford. At the Wannamacher Gun Show, touted as the largest in the country, I saw very few boxs and what was available was priced at 50 bucks a box. I know, but when leaving I noticed that there were several boxs short on the table.

ugh...

just gonna have to come up with somethin else, then. WWATD?

Yeah dude, it's great. lol... It shoots very nice; not as much kick as I was expecting, but it still kicks like crazy. It's pretty [censored] heavy, so that probably helps out the recoil. I just got mine about a month ago, and it ran me $1,700; worth it to me.

The .50AE ammo is hard to find(ish) and pricey. After shooting the Desert Eagle, the Sig (.40 cal) seriously feels like a Co2 pellet gun.

If you are ever in eastern PA, you are more than welcome to put some rounds through it.

Once again, common sense.

But then again it takes a village to raise a child. Now, where was this village when I was getting my backside tanned for making the wrong decision <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" />

I came out ok without being raised by a village.

P
Email sent

5 more!

get thee to the death chat, sumo.

Well, I guess to steer away from problems in the country, here's a picture of my Hi-Point .380 acp with my CGDM for good measure:

Like they say, there is so much weight from the slide, it feels like there's a brick on the top! What matters to be is that it shoots and that I could afford to buy it!

the larger caliber models still use the direct blowback, right? that's what the huge slides are for?

If by "larger caliber" you mean all of the Hi-Point pistols, then yes, to my knowledge they use the direct blowback design, hence the huge slides.

Could explain to me what the difference is between direct blowback and most other handgun designs?

I know a guy that has abused his Hi Point to no end and it still is running. he also has one of the carbines. I enjoyed shooting the carbine, but the limited amount of rds turned me off. I would love to have a carbine if they took a larger rd mag--then it would be a true truck gun. Lifetime warranty and they tell you not to take it apart.

Well, limited number of rounds is the standard here in California, so I have no choice there. As far as the carbine, it's illegal here due to the detachable mag and pistol grip making it an "assault rifle." (ABSURD!)

I read over the warranty and it doesn't say anywhere that I can't take it apart. In the "manual," it actually has instructions for disassembly. One of the reasons I decided to go ahead and get the Hi-Point was that the warranty is a lifetime warranty. I don't think they'd cover intentional abuse, but the warranty services I've read about online seem to be close to a no questions asked warranty.

The non-dissassembly is for the carbine.

yeah, that sucks that you guys are restricted the way you are. Do you plan on staying in CA after you graduate? OK has its ups and downs, but we can have Full Auto, Class III, and are CCW state. Plus we can not get washed away with a rogue or tidal wave!

well back in the day, when ammo was less powerful, auto pistols like the PPK had the recoil spring around the barrel which was fixed to the frame.

larger, higher pressure calibers required a delayed blowback system to function properly. JMB's hi power and 1911, using 9mm and 45acp respectively, had a linkage that would bring the barrel back with the slide, increasing he mass and absorbing more energy, to a certain point at which the barrel would unlink at the and drop while the slide would continue rearward. eventually sig came up with the locked breech mechanism but it served the same purpose.

if any experts care to correct anything i've stated incorrectly, be my guest.

we have a 15rd limit here in NJ.

15 rd limit? To a Californian that's great!

So for the blowback, does the slide need to be so massive so it doesn't move as fast as a lighter slide?

Sumo: I'm not sure if I'll stay in California when I graduate. I love the coast and have recently taken up surfing, which I also love to do. California, right now at least, has a fair number of engineering job opportunities. As long as the state government doesn't screw things up too much, there still should be jobs here when I'm done with school. What bothers me the most here is the amount that politicians want to control our lives. If it gets much worse in the future, I may have to leave CA to maintain my sanity (and rights)! I guess I'll just decide when I get there (hopefully by the end of the next school year).

well the recoil energy has to go somewhere and the greater the mass of the slide or slide+barrel, the more force it eats up to get it to move.

That makes sense. I just wasn't sure how it worked and wanted to make sure we're on the same page.

Here's a few...










[img]http://images103.fotki.com/v423/photos/2/28682/888648/1232321_IMG-vi.jpg[/img]

More?










[img]http://images110.fotki.com/v569/photos/2/28682/2583438/IMG_3829-vi.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images24.fotki.com/v798/photos/2/28682/3007033/IMG_4224-vi.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images110.fotki.com/v565/photos/2/28682/2583306/IMG_3836-vi.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images110.fotki.com/v561/photos/2/28682/2492392/IMG_3713-vi.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images116.fotki.com/v713/photos/2/28682/2492392/IMG_3742-vi.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images114.fotki.com/v655/photos/2/28682/4025542/IMG_1602-vi.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images27.fotki.com/v982/photos/2/28682/3924679/008-vi.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images115.fotki.com/v665/photos/2/28682/231798/1000099_IMG-vi.jpg[/img]

Whew...I'm tired...let's stop for now :P

i'm sorry you're tired, but you're gonna have to give some quick impressions of those. namely the vintage walthers, mausers, mac 11, luger, and comanche.

Pretty spot on.

The makarov, 9X18mm Russian, is about the largest useful blowback pistol.

Now the HK P7 series, it has a fixed brl but it uses a roller-lock system.

Hang in there. I know with the stimulas plan one of the things touted is the re-building of the infra-structure. I am sure there will be jobs available when you get out. Has the California state coffers increased lately, I know they were talking about laying teachers off, etc. not too long ago.

PBL, I am in awe. I love the Inglis HP's (do you know what countries they were serviced in), the Luger is a classic, but the Smiths are above and beyond! Do they need a break from you--if so, send them my way and I will treat them right!

Walther P-38
Heavy DA pull. Good SA pull. Accurate & reliable. My dad has a P1, which is a P38 with an aluminum frame. I prefer the steel framed P38's.

Walther/Manurhin PP.
Probably the best .32 out there. Accurate to beat the band. Very nice and smooth.

Mauser HSC
Almost as nice as the PP. Not quite as reliable, but a neat pistol.

Mauser 1934
A neat gun. Put together like a puzzle. It's reliable and compact.

Mauser C96 bolo
Nice. Again, assembles like a puzzle box. fun to shoot. Not 100% reliable, but it is 80+ years old. Extra nice with the stock on it.

Cobray Mac 11/9
I paid $175 for it last year at a show. It's heavy, has a bunch of trigger slap, but is accurate and reliable. It makes liberals cower in fear...mission accomplished.

Luger byf41
Bought the rig a couple of years ago at a show. All matching and nice. Lugers are natural pointers and great shooters. I like it a lot.

Comanche
It's a cheap revolver. But it is big, ugly, and reliable. It's weight tames recoil, and it's reasonably accurate. I got it as a Christmas present one year, and it makes a good knockaround pistol, for the price.

Okay.....nap time :P

One Inglis is in Suncorite (black paint), so it was definitely British issue. The other pistol is in it's phosphate finish, FTR-63, so it really could have been either Canadian or British (though typically British pistols wore the black Suncorite finish).

Nice!!

I need to get something in Full-auto.

Dang, TPOL, nice military pistol collection. I thought I had too many handguns!

Someone posted this over on USN..

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090309020311823

the hsc is pretty.

Might I recommend...

serious toys.

Who doesn't like rednecks right?

Lol, pitbull-o-love, I was thinking more like a Glock 18, or something Hand held.

Some of my best friend are rednecks... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I mean, this is ART!




Note-shooting finished and firearms cleared before the PBR came out of the styrofoam cooler.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I've got a friend who's a Class 2 Manufacturer. Somewhere around here, I have a picture of us shooting his Glock 18. But I sure can't find it right now.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

oh i'd love an 18c. love.

MG 42, oh yeah baby.

Pitbull,

Where in NC are you? I'm in the western part. Love that pickup mounted belt fed. You gonna make the Charlotte Gun Show this weekend?

GregB

my USP compact with stainless slide. I don't think they make them for northern America market anymore...but nonetheless its a great gun.

I'm in the Charlotte area.

Yeah, I'll probably be at the show. I haven't decided which day yet. Probably going to take a Springfield Armory SAR8 (HK 91 clone) to sell.

good stuff me too.

I am about 99% sure that is the pistol I want to get fot CC.
I assume you are happy with it?

can someone tell me the difference between the glock 36 and the glock 30???
(slimline vs subcompact)

I'm guessing the 36 would be more slim???

well I actually do know the slimline is .14" thinner...
is that the only difference???

the 36 (6 rounds?) is single stack mags the only "slimline" glock has ever made, the 30 (10 rounds?) is doubble-stack same frame size as the 21.

yeah...
I did just read that.

thanks.
I guess it just carries easier?
.14" difference is pretty big on a gun actually.

My uncle lives there. Maybe I should find an excuse to come down lol.

Real happiness is a belt-fed weapon!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Amen, Tom. When I was a KAYdet at Summer Camp at Ft. Bragg, I got stuck humping the M-60 on most patrols because I was a big guy. Even with blanks, the 60 spoke louder than the M16s did. I liked it. I had a chance to get good with it at Ft knox. But THE belt fed MG is the mighty .50 cal. M-2 HB. Now that's a hoss! The little coax we had in the tanks was was nice, too, like a miniature M2. I forget what is was, M240? It would scream out bullets. Unlike you, I did not carry a weapon much in the war, being in the AF. I loaded bombs mostly, and humped a lot of ammo. It's more fun to shoot it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Vic - I think the M240 is a "new and improved" version of the M60, though not positive. And you're right - the .50 cal. is a BEAUTY to shoot!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

And you're right again - it's DEFINITELY more fun to shoot the ammo than to "hump" it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Of course, the gunner is always one of the first targets in a fire-fight, along with the radio-man and Leader! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

My hats off to you, Marine grunt. Glad my Air Commando unit was able to help out at Khe Sanh. We were the guys flying in the 7.62, 5.56, and 45 acp in the C-123s. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Worst airport I ever saw.

We all fought for the same flag! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I was not at Khe Sanh, but I certainly salute the folks who were!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> And every resupply ship of ANY kind was always a beautiful and welcome sight. Man, did I love the gunships!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh yes, those were Air Commando units, later called Special Ops. In gunships, all the crew does is hump 7.62! The pilot shoots the mini-guns in the old AC-47 "Puff". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I can only imagine the morale boost and grin factor after a fire fight gets turned around favourably after calling in those AC47 "Puff"s.....

Northern had a great Avatar of one letting loose....

Hearing the The Stones "Satisfaction" always reminds me of a film sequence where some M60 in a DC 10 comes in with suppressive fire....now if the budget could have afforded a "Puff"....that would have been a hell of a scene...

Nearest comparable for me was our Sea Harriers during the Falklands....not quite the same....but a welcome sight at the time....

I loved to watch "Puff" work out! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> Out in the "bush" at night we would occasionally see some fool VC take a shot at "Puff" with their green tracers. "Puff" would reply with a STEADY stream of red - no more VC! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes...that would have been an awesome sight!!

It was! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Funny thing, captured VC documents said not to fire upon the dragon or it would become angry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I love it!

G36 is single stack, where as the 30 is double stack. I found the 36 to be a great carry piece and it is so close to the G19 in size that they share the same holster.

M249 made by FN, pure fun!

Thank you PK and HD for your service. I know that Puff saved a many mans rear. I have heard the first hand accounts of Puff and what a resupply heli would do for the Marine in the field.

Falklands, do tell.

Sumo - you're welcome! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> As far as the Falklands, I found it interesting that Mrs. Thatcher showed more courage than many of her male counterparts. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Yes, Mrs Thatcher was a tough old gal.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Here is a link to one of my first posts when I mentioned this topic...

http://www.scrapyardknives.com/ubbthread...true#Post200376

I remember growing up and watching Mrs. Thatcher on the t.v. She was a great leader just like Reagan was a great leader for us. We need world leaders like them again.

SF, thanks for the link. I am will have to read the whole thread.

You know what, I think i have a Martindale Golok at my dads place. I will have to check next time I am there.

Holy handgun ammo! So for those who didn't read an earlier post, I recently got a Hi-point .380 acp. (I know, cheap, but it shoots) So in reading more about how people are having one heck of time finding any .380 acp ammo, let alone at an affordable price, I decided I should pick some more up from the local indoor range/gun store. I got some Blazer ammo on Monday from them, and shot all of those at the range. Those were two boxes of 50 at $15 a piece. Well, I decided to call up another local gun shop to find out what they have in stock. They had some left, but they're asking $30 for a box of 50! Well, I quickly got in my car and bought two boxes of the cheaper stuff from the indoor range. They have some better stuff at $19 per box of 50, so I'll get some of those later. This ammo shortage is ridiculous!

Yes, ammo is in short supply everywhere, it seems. I read somewhere that manufacurers are making it as fast as they can, but since the election of Obama, demand has been higher than anyone has ever seen it. Do all these ammo horders know something we don't know?

i'm hopin it's just speculation.

I'm hoping it's just speculation, too, but what some of the anti gun nuts want to do worries me.

I bought such a cheap gun because it's my first gun and I'm still in school. I don't want it to be my last because of the rising cost of ammo.

Anyone hear that the federal government isn't selling spent shells to ammo companies any more? I read somewhere that they're scrapping it all instead in order to make less ammunition available for the public. One would think they would continue to sell the shells because I'd imagine they'd get more money for that than they would by just recycling the brass. Given the financial situation of the federal government, they need all the extra money they can get. If what I read is true, they're just making the public mad and "shooting themselves in the foot." Ironic phrase!

Not all ammo is in short supply....only the "defensive" stuff, 9mm, .45acp, .380acp, 5.56mm, 7.62x39...12ga... .22 rimfire, etc... at least around here....

.380 is nuts because all of the new concealed permit holders seem to gravitate toward the micro "mouseguns"..

Here in Florida, they are backlogged 90,000 CCW permits...

DocSavage

Oh! I see! That makes sense as to why the indoor range had a fair share of .380 acp ammunition here. In California it's pretty tough to get a concealed carry license. I think that part of the application process requires presenting a "need" for the license to the Sheriff's department (I think you get them by what county you're in) and having them approve your "need." Where I live, unless I regularly put my life on the line where a concealed gun would help reduce the risk, I'll never be able to get a concealed carry license.

On the "mouseguns" note, I guess this means people don't prefer to conceal carry a .50AE Desert Eagle like P-easy has then! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Don't get me wrong.... I have a Ruger LCP .380... a "mousegun". I can carry it in my shirt pocket....(I keep it in my front pants pocket) and up close and personal with a zombie... lead poisoning is a reality for them.... It is a great chioce for personal "up close" defense....and I am a devout .45 acp guy...
but the ammo is pricey around here....I like the hydroshok and the black Talon ammo...and I want to try some of the newer stuff that is out there...

"Mousegun" is a term used by Massad Ayoob in his writings... and even he is respectful of the advantages of the .380 in the newer concealable "mousegun" offerings....

DocSavage

Doc - Howdy and Welcome to the ScrapYard! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> On the ammo front, I checked the WalMarts we encountered between home and western Illinois, and they are all short on supply. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Fortunately, I have one or two boxes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Oh, I didn't take "mousegun" as any serious criticism. I just thought it was funny and I thought of the pictures of P-easy's Desert Eagle. That's most definitely not a "mousegun!"

The reason I chose the .380 was because I could easily afford the gun and a .380 acp is much more powerful than a .22, which was my only other option.

Oh, welcome, Doc! The Yard is a great place!

welcome aboard. i'm gonna have to youtube that doc savage.

never knew mr. ayoob coined the term mousegun.

Thanks for the welcome....

I never said Massad Ayoob "coined" the term...However... see:

June 2009 Guns Magazine, page 20, Handguns column by Massad Ayoob...

"Friends don't let friends carry mouseguns."

I can't believe I even quoted the guy....I have been reading his stuff since he started writing...He has come a long way...He knew zip when he started...I used to laugh at his ramblings...but he has endured and gained respect in the knives and guns fraternity ...Good for him...I like perseverance...

DocSavage

Welcome to the Yard, Doc.

I took a Browning 380 to a last chance shoot...bowling pins, and the guys could not stop laughing and making fun...at least until I cleared the table and took second place. I was there with that gun to prove that its bullet placement and its not always about massive power.

Welcome Doc

Dumpster dan

nice, dumpster dan.

My Bersa .380 is very accurate. The only pistol I have ever had in that size that was even close was my East German Makarov. My Kel-Tec .380 is the worst pistol I have for accuracy, but it seems reliable enough. My old Colt Gov't Model (mini-1911) is fairly accurate. Had a Walther PPK for while....well one range trip. What a POS that was. It was one of the Alabama made ones. I'd rather have a nickel plated Raven .32!

wow! the carbine is sooo cheap!

I have enough to buy one right now!
sounds like a good deal and all... but I've had my eyes on that ruger sp101. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The Hi-Point carbine? I had one in 9mm. No complaints. It shot well and was stone reliable.

i thought you had your eye on and obscure STI.

Which STI?

Thanks, my best gun for this type of shoot is an old Ruger 44 mag...loaded down of course. I have run more than 5,000 rounds through that gun so the action is very smooth and fast...for a single action. I do ok with autos by I dont usually miss with a revolver. The 454 Casual Raging Bull was a very accurate gun but that S&W 500 is amazing and it does not kick to talk about...that 454 wears you out after 20 rounds

My favorite autos are a Baby Eagle 9mm (the best feeling handgun of all time), An older Wilson Combat 45...a one hole wonder. I carry my Keltch 32 cal everywhere...quite a little shooter and it fits in the palm of your hand and pocket.

Dan

Ammo is non-existant here in OK because people are buying it and gouging a the gunshows and local shooting boards. Glad I have a box or too!

At the indoor range where I purchased my .380, the guy there told me to break it in with new ammo. How long should I buy new before buying reloads? I put 100 rounds of new Blazer ammo through it.

Funny, I had the same issue with the Keltc .380. I got rid of it and kept the 32

Dan

I overheard the guys at the gunshop talking about the Baby Eagles. Apparently they're really popular. Unfortunately, I also overheard the employee say that the Baby Eagles are not legal for California right now. I guess they've been updated and have to be reviewed by the state before they can be sold here again. Sucks!

[/quote]that 454 wears you out after 20 rounds[/quote]


I'd say so, I have watched videos on youtube and those things look like they kick like a mule.

I never tried the 32. The 380 is the only Kel-Tec pistol I have ever shot. I mentioned its inaccuracy to my gun dealer and he said it was typical. Their .223 SU-16 carbine shot just fine.

speakin my language!!!

i've gotta get a blackhawk and the alaskan. gotta.

My dad has a Ruger Blackhawk. Its a 44 mag. The last time he shot it, I was 14 and now I'm 26. Back then I was too scared to shoot it. Hopefully I can persuade my dad to go the the range with me since I finally own a gun. Then, maybe I can give his 44 mag a try!

I love the .44 Bisley. That handle shape really tames recoil nicely.

Mag, i want both really... but the sp101 first probably because it's cheaper.

Imagine I was looking at the gp6.

su 16 would be the carbine I got if I got one too.
they make an NJ legal version and it's cheap and light.

those are the three main guns on my list right now.

where do you get that m4 stock for the kel tec? this is the su22 with one. doesn't really belong in the handgun thread, but eh.

mag, whats the point? Now I just get depressed whenever I see a cool setup...
like I'll see a really nice ar15 that I just fall in love with...
then I realize that it has a bayonet lug, flash suppressor, adjustable stock and wouldn't be that fun to shoot with a 10 rd maazine.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I second that! My Sig P232 in .380 is very accurate. It's all about placement. I don't care what anyone says about the ballistics compared to a luger 9mm, I sure wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a .380. For me, it's a very good option in a small pistol.

Horta, welcome (I haven't noticed you on here yet). So I see you're from the Bay Area. What part? My home is in the East Bay. Currently I'm down at school in San Luis Obispo, though.

EMF, it sounds like NJ has some pretty messed up gun laws like California. Do you guys currently have an assault weapons ban? The one here in CA is like the federal one that expired. It's just like it never expired here!

The Baby Eagle 9mm is also known as the Jericho abroad and back in Isreal...I got to shoot this a fair bit on some joint exercises and loved it as well.



Similar in grip design to the CZ 75 and successive models it is very comfortable but does not use the browning cam design and as a result can be fitted with a moderator and is very reliable. I also like the way the slide tracks inside the frame like the Sig design for greater accuracy.

The only problem with moderators on 9mm rounds is the size needed and how this impacts on balance and feel....for reasons such as this and also the quieter "crack" of a 9mm short or .32acp round...these are more commonly encountered in military "moderated" pistols...but again these are often way too muzzle heavy for good natural pointing...

Here are our old Wellrod designs which still get issued...



The top one is the Mk1 in .32acp and the bottom is the Mk2 in 9mm...single shot and big and cumbersome...they are none the less totally silenced. Re-cocking the pistol manually though is a slow process and re-affirms the point Dan made that accuracy is a final decider on effective use. But if used accurately a .32acp or a .380acp is just as effective as any other round....although for me I like the Ruger I posted earlier...compact and perfectly balanced...and even a .22 works very well if it hits what you aim at.

SF, your experiences with the Jericho is about the same as mine.

Wellrods, a nice addition to any kit!

H&K P2000 V3 .40 and Sabre AR



H&K P7 9mm



H&K P2000SK V3 .40



S&W 442

I have plenty more but I dont have pics of them online...

those are some nice pics. grab your camera and upload some more, my friend.

that first pic should be scaled down to be your avatar.

rmc85, welcome to the Yard. Love the pics, especially the P7 Porn!

My Bersa is the same shoots nice.

That would have been great to see LOL

Not only is ammo hard to find but powder is as well. Nothing but back orders every where you look <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" />

Nice toys rmc

Thanks guys!

I'll try to get some better ones of my 442, p7, glock 23, and springfield 1911.

My brother just got a Evo .45 for his sig p220 combat so maybe I can get some pics of that one too. That thing looks sweet!

+1 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I carry a G34 and a DM daily. For EDC Glock is hard to beat. In my younger days , my 1911 or BHP and my Gerber were the base of my equipment. My Steyr M9 is a close second with my TOPS Rhino.

Try finding any .380 auto now. What the heck is up with this ammo shortage? I got 250 rds of 17 HMR, 50 rds of .45 ACP ball, 100 rds of CCI CB longs, and 20 rds of .223 FMJ today when I picked up my Marlin 17 HMR. They were all out of 380 and I got the last box of Win .223. Oh, and I scored a brick of Remington 22LRHP subsonics. That's 500 rds of 22 for cleansing the area of varmints.

Tell me about it, it might be awhile before we see ammo supply catching up with demands...

interesting video on the bersa's disconnect safety.

broken spring

I hate to day it, but the ammo shortage is making shooting no fun because I can not replace the ammo I am shooting. Oh well, other things in life good steel!

never jams, infinite ammo, and the busse variety is nuclear!

yeah I'm a bit piss off at the ammo storage deal. It's been on for months...I used to be able to pick up ammo easily at Wal-mart. Now it is not how much they have at a given time...it is when will you get the next shipment?

....

Now, whenever I see ammo for guns I have, I buy all I can afford. That makes me one of the millions of horders, I guess. I still have a couple boxes of 380, but my target pratice with it has ceased for now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" />

Supposedly , WalMart is going to stop selling ammo by summer. Here in FLA. You can not find .380 anywhere??? All WM are shipping ammo to one store per county , and then OUT OF THE AMMO BUSINESS. WTF.......Our Shop and gunshows are double priced what they were 6mths ago. "Our gov't is stockpilling for the tough times ahead. Even online dealers are OUT of most popular calibres. We can only surmise where this is going. Reloading is being legislated against.All non registered ammo must be used by Jan 2010. This is the word going around here.

that post is a nightmare.

That is the word here too, but it is from the g-show people and stores buying their ammo from Wally-World. The deal about tagging ammo, ammo having a shelf life of 6 months, all stored ammo has to be used by 2010 is not going to happen. I do believe some HOR wrote it but it was shot down a few years ago. Just look what happened when the DOD got word to quite selling brass--pressure fro "We the People" made them say it was a mistake and they changed their stance on that directive. Not saying that the anti's won't continue, just don't think it will happen.

and that post was a relief.

look at this cool little guy.

Mag, a friend has a couple MACs that are full-auto. I do nt care for them but they do lay some lead down range--FAST!

I think it is time to statr reloading if you havnt already.
Out here in california it has been a little tuff, but not to bad and at times it seems to come in huge lots.

Same with the guns.

Spray and pray! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbdn.gif" alt="" /> Talk about wasting ammo! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

that masterpiece arms ingram is semi auto and supposedly extremely accurate in the full size model. just hearsay, though.

still rather have a blackhawk.

If you like the Blackhawk, you'd love the Cimerron revolvers I was playing with at the gun shop yesterday. Reproductions of old Colt SAA and Navys. Very fine workmanship. Those Italians sure do nice work. The Peacemaker style in 45 Long Colt had a tuned action. So fine!

I am a big fan of reloading....it's the only way to shoot and afford it over here...factory ammo is very expensive...and in rifle ammo you get better results from reloading...the only things I don't reload is shotgun ammo and rimfire ammo...just buy in "bulk" and it is fairly cost effective here.

As bad as things are in the USA at present with the political changes....it is a [censored] sight better than it is here!

My friend gave me this one. It gotta be 70 years old and it doesn't work right. It shoots .22 shorts and the hammer only falls hard enough to fire the rounds half of the time. The grip screw broke so he zip tied it together <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />. When shooting you get a click, click, bang, click, bang, click, click, click, click, bang and so on.



H&k P7 again...



P2000/P2000SK both V3 and .40 again...



P2000



P2000SK



H&K dog pile!

Nice H&Ks, rmc85. You have some money tied up in those. What is that old revolver, a H&R? I had one many years ago that shot pretty well.

Springfield Armory 1911




S&W 442 w/ Spyderco Police3. As you can see the Spyderco is harder to conceal than the 442!:D



Glock 23 .40



EDC gear. Glock 23 (13+1 Gold Dots) in an M-t.a.c., spare 13 round mag in a Comp-Tac mag carrier, Surefire E2D, cash/cards, Spyderco Military, flash drive, Samsung Eternity, Costa Del Mar - Harpoons, and my keys.

Thanks. I have no idea what the revolver is...Its got some German writing on it but I've had no luck IDing it.

And yes, HK's get costly <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Some of the boys need some fixed blade company...

nice! i'm surprised how many p7's are showing up in this thread. i want one.

I shot on mag through a friends and after that I knew I needed it.

Seriously.

If I remember, this pic is missing two rounds...

I wish I could honestly say I still owned both but hard times call for large sacrifices.

DumpsterDan,
Is your baby eagle the poly frame? I am still keeping my eyes open for one of the old, all steel, full sized models with the frame mounted safety (I am not a fan of slide mounted safeties).

dl351,
Congratulations on your first gun purchase. Make sure you get a 22lr before investing in more center-fires, they are really just a great deal of fun and relatively extremely inexpensive.

RMC85,
That springer is awesome.

Neo,
I am loving that colt, very nice in a 'classic' custom look.

Not sure who posted earlier about the HK P7 having a roller lock, this is not accurate. The P7 has a gas delayed blowback action. The P9 is the one with the roller lock.

I had a P7M8, it was very nice to shoot and I think it has the best sights of any pistol I have yet shot. It turned out to not be my favorite though because it would heat up fairly quickly when shooting at the range or IDPA club shoots with too few people. The 'heat shield' on the M8 does not seem to really be too effective. If/when I am able to buy a guy like this again I would probably go with the classic version instead of the M8, they have such nice lines.

Has anyone tried the Kel-tec PF9? I have heard they are very reliable, once broken in, have a nice trigger (relatively speaking of course), are very light and slim. It seems an ideal pistol for CCW.

Hey toast, taht 226 you got looks like you shaved the hammer ?
Maybe it is the tac x model ?
Also that 70 sieres colt is nice hard to come by these days

Man, those are some nice pistols pictured there! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />


neomastiff - Howdy and Welcome to the ScrapYard! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mine is the full steel version. I have to agree on not being a fan of slide mounted safeties...not sure why, they work

Dan

Dan, I suspect that you have an interesting little arsenal! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Same here, I guess I do not bother really exploring the issue as there are many nice pistols of each variety. I mainly just use it as a way to reduce the numbers of good pistols on my 'list'. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

anyone shot the 10mm witness?

+1

Wasn't one of the Moderator benefits suppose to be a guided gun room tour and range trip?

If not, is it too late to renegotiate? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

That's a great question. The power of the 10mm for hunting and 'large charismatic magafauna' protection and possibly even hunting in a pistol very much like a CZ75. What is not to like about this combo.


As to the Sig's hammer, its the DAK trigger system. It comes with the bobbed hammer and almost never comes with a decocker. Nice guns.

dan, be forewarned that CO is a fiendish negotiator. you should hear about his discussion with yogi bear.

I prefer the term efficient negotiator.

Time is money after all!

ammo is money too!

And it's taking more and more money for the same amount of ammo - if you can find it!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, but reloading provides both therapy in the activity and savings in the process!

I am paying a hair over $1/round for .44 mag right now!! I will be able to reload for the .500 for the same price.

Which one will have the larger grin factor?

ah, so in grin/$, the reloaded 500 is the optimal point on the coordinate plane.

grin is the first derivative of the bang. bang/$ is still good data.

Finally! Math I understand. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Common denominators! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My normal equation is something like this:
Bang=good!

question is, whats the second derivative?

guess it depends what your shooting. splatter?

poof?

regardless of what you are shooting at, rate of fire combined with mag size would be up there!

Hmmm... A ma deuce with a couple of belts... Yeah... Back in my happy place. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

THUNK!

I think I have finally decided on a Glock 23 as my next pistol. I thought about a 19 for a long time, but want to power of the .40. I disagree that the Glocks are not sexy, though. I love the look of them.

I'm quite happy with my Model 22! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks guys...great guns and pics.

I didn't want to show just how imbalanced my handgun to knife ratio is...but here are few more that I plan to pair a new SY with in the coming weeks. They're have some show AND lot's of go--not just safe queens. The ivory is the only thing that's replaced for shooting. I can tell from the other great pics here that I need to stage my pics better. Perhaps a pistol pose with my new S5?

Those are some beauties.

Yes, a bud has one and it is pretty nice for the money. Another friend has a S&W 610 with 4" brl, no lock that was worked over by Dave Berryhill and that is a sweet shooter. I have had a 10mm in the Glock 20 and a Dan Wesson 1911. The Glock was OK, but never really shot any hot loads because it had the factory brl and I never got around to getting a hunting brl for it. Now the DW 1911, it was accurate and handled some hot loads, dropped a pig with it, but eventually got rid of it because factory ammo was so expensive for it. Kinda wish I had it still because OK changed it's deer hunting regs to where we can use that caliber. No reason to take a rifle into the thickets if you can use a 10mm.

For those that don't know, the 10mm is like having a .41 mag in a pistol.

A BIG +1!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> Last Fall as I was helping my brother take his boat out of the water the marina owner pulled up and noticed my pistol, an old S&W Model 411. As we were discussing pistols, he let me handle his compact Kimber .45. Man, those are SWEET!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Beautiful Baer's and Colt's. Can you tell me about the top most Colt? Has it been to a smith for some custom work? Ivory?

Beauties indeed! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Neo, beautiful pistols!

Ted Nugent is a big 10mm fan. He's shot several deer with it according to his book.

Not a large enough number to even call it a collection, but here is my 2 pistols. Ruger Super Blackhawk and an EAA Witness.



I love both of them.

I would call that a start to a collection. What caliber is the Witness?

Yes, Uncle Ted is a 10mm fan and has taken game with it too.

If you get a Glock 20, the 10mm, it is recommended that you get a different brl to shoot lead loads--KKF is probably the best for money/performance ratio. You need to beef up the springs too if they are going to be the 180 to 200 gr bullets too.

The Witness is 45ACP. I just better not get as hooked on new guns as I am on new knives, I can't afford to add that type of addiction.

T, know what you mean but I am the other way, I can't handle getting hooked by the Busse knives LOL.

Now rifles, pistols, and shotguns I love but they are getting to expensive to enjoy shooting much.

For the price of a case of 5.56mm I can get 5 CG S5 knives! See, that is what I was talking about above.

Good luck not getting hooked on Bussekin knives <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I was not able to resist. I just hope I never find a gun forum as friendly as this one or I might just get drawn in.

T, there are a few decent gun boards out there. Smith and Wesson forum is one and we have a local gun board for the state of OK that is friendly too. We actually have others that join the OK board just to bs on. Be careful!

Neo, wow, very nice!

I think if you melt down a brick of 22long rifle's you can get 3 x 500 bullets...LOL. The best sound for the buck.

A guy I know shot a deer this season with a 500 S&W...all I can say is WOW!

Dan

I know exactly what you talking about!! I shoot a lot less too because of the crazy ammo prices. I think the only ammo I shoot often is the .22LR. It is the only affordable round to shoot.

Not the Witness but I had glock in 10mm and it was shooter and it had some real power to it

I was speaking to Ammo Company guy a couple of years ago and he said that the 10mm is one the more popular rounds and a lot of it is sold in the south and south west for hogs

Dan

Great looking pistols neomastiff

::quietly raises hand::
I want a 10mm

Neve shot a 10mm when I get back to the states I will try that out.

A 10mm Dan Wesson bobtail would be too incredibly cool. CZ-USA is a great company to deal with, I am not displeased with the Dan Wesson acquisition but am instead curious as to when or if the revolvers will make it back into circulation.

They seem to be making a comeback. So what is your every day gun, and what is your favorite in terms of accuracy for you personally

i dig it!

uncle ted loves em!

I would love to be able to hunt with it, however that won't happen up here. i think it would be a perfect gopher gun!

Slowly getting closer to buying one.

Money burning a hole in your pocket Chris? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You better believe it!
(Just not enough of it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> )

many americans are shocked to learn that canadians often save before they spend.

Chris - I feel your pain! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Too bad I wasn't born rich instead of so good-looking! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You can't have it all Tom! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

reminds me of a joke about a school of philosophers and a deal with the devil.

if you try sometime, you might find you get what you need.

No, but I sure try hard!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

you'll just be taxed on everything if you have it all.

Sad but true! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

gotta keep it underground.

Or deny knowledge of it, like so many of B.O.'s people do! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

having it all would be too heavy a burden anyway. better to only have the best of your favorites and keep it simple.

case in point: CGFBM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

or more appropriate to the handgun thread, the 1911.

The 1911 would be the appropriate choice! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

When I get my CCW completed i will carry a Kel-tec PF-9. I have used one alot and I find them decently accurate if I concentrate on trigger control. If I am concentrating I can clear plates at 15yrds with a standing two-handed grip. Its very slim, decently small, and has decent magazine capacity.

My best shooter would be the SP-01, especially with a Kadet kit on it.

Home defense would be split between the PF-9 by the bed and something else nearby.

I remember when the Colt Delta Elites came out. One of my shooting buddies got one, and he still loves it. This may all be urban legend, but the story I heard was the 10mm was developed for the FBI as a more powerful cartridge following a shootout in Miami with bank robbers who out gunned the FBI with Mini-14s and such. But the ladies coming into law enforcement couldn't pull the slide back on the new pistol. The FBI went to the 45 acp. S&W tuned down the 10mm and it became the 40 S&W, which is now a most popular cartridge with law enforcement. Is that all about right? It could all be lies for all I know. I don't believe anything shooters say when they've been drinking. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Actually H/D, I stay away from shooters who have been drinking! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

i heard that story, HD. sounds plausible.

They were finished shooting for the day. I'm the only shooter I know who still drinks and shoots at the same time, but just a beer or two to settle the nerves and relax. Too much and I shoot poorly. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

+1

More or less that is what I had heard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10mm_Auto

beer's easier to get a hold of than pentazamine.

I don't need that to shoot poorly. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Actually, I don't do too bad, though the years have taken a toll. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

too much beer = double action only trigger

Good suggestion! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

i've never shot a double action only firearm. just speculation.

never shot drunk, either.

finally snapped a pic of my my S&W 629 with a few scrappers....

YES YES YES!

how's the crimson trace laser grip?

They're fun at the gravel pit, but I've contemplated removing them for a more comfortable oversized grip....like the ones found on the 500. I bought the gun shortly before a trip to Alaska and the only one I could find already had the CT's installed. I don't believe I can hunt anything with the laser...which is another reason I'm thinking about losing them.

About how far out before the laser starts washing out?

in sunlight..I can see it 10 maybe 15 yards away. At dusk...at least 100 yards. Not that I'm going to be able hit anything except maybe the side of a barn at 100 yards w/ a .44 Mag.

i heard about a green laser that you can see in daylight. not sure if they made them for revolvers.

here it is.

http://www.viridiangreenlaser.com/

HOLY CRAP, XD Man!!! Love the four or five shades of green in that AR pic!

thanks, I like to color coordinate <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

yuh man, those are nice pics. i like to coordinate my stuff as well. really just gives me a reason to buy more stuff.

Ugh now I gotta get me a tan xd to match my tan scrappers! Thanks pal...<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

lol ..and the fun never ends

no sir it does not <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> it really is an evil desease <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

How do you like the XDM for a polymer

I guess that is how guys color coordinate... Nice pics and nice tools.

Beautiful 1911. Give the details on it. Who did the work, what finish, what upgrades, etc!

Color cordinating is a good thing. Better not KG hear that though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />

You could make your 1911, or any other gun for that matter tan for pretty cheap, that is always an option.

duracoat?

?? yea? I would probably do that.. how well does it stay?

wouldnt know but if it's a cheap way to get a 1911 lookin like the kinber desert warrior SHOULD have looked, then do it!

throw on the busse slabs and you will have one sick pistol. my concern would be that you may no longer see the springfield mark.

Thats the way I understand it

Dan

ehh i could live with that.. I'll would never sell it. so resale value isn't a concern.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I never mix drinking and gun powder............taste real bad. And I bet you are wondering how I know? It started with drinking...make sense <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

Dan

story is gaining more and more credibility.

hah you got me with that one. i completely expected something about responsible shooting.

sumoj275,
The gun is a Series 80 integrated compensator customized by Terry Tussey out of California at the time (all of the Colts and hybrid Springer/Colt longslide were completely customized by Mr Tussey. It's has genuine elephant ivory grips with some amazing grain. On a trip to CA last November a me and buddy shot my Baer Concept VI and the Colts at 68 yards (Leupold rangefinder confirmed). Both guns were very accurate with 230 gr FMJ WWB ammo against various targets that we set up. Great shooters and great reliability.

which one? post the pic again!

It fell perfectly on page...11.

thank you sir! very nice!

Yeah, that thing is gorgeous.

Yes, even I can follow that one <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> I bet there is a good story that goes along with that too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for the details. I assume the matte on is hard chrome?

It was a basic Springfield 1911, parkarized finish. I sent it off to a local smith, obviously had it plated, trigger, sights, ambi safety, hammer and backstap. The checkering on the front strap was done by hand. The guy did an outstanding job, took a while but well worth it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

looks outstanding.

Duracoat is the DIY variety and works very well. There are some coatings out there that are super tough, alot tougher than bluing, even good bluing.

A Duracoated stainless gun would be ultra rust-resistant. That might be nice for when you are sweating on in when you starting packing it here in Texas.

IMJ, that was what I was thinking too.

thanks, I had it done a long time ago, before digital cameras were really big, wish I had some before and after shots.

silverbullets - very nice!

Ok, for you 10mm fans. All this talk of 10mm made me remember a certain magazine from my archives. I thought you guys might like to see it. It's from way back in 1991. I bought it new off the newsstand, and I was 11. Yup, I've been into survival/outdoors/guns/knives and such for a while. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />







Hope you liked it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

thanks for sharing andy. that's pretty cool.

anyone shot the sr9?

No, thought about picking one up but then the recall, bad feeling trigger and the idea of pricy mags kept me from doing it. They do feel nice in the hand though.

I have to say I am really excited that Sig classic series has a conversion kit. A 220SA with a 22lr conversion would be an awesome setup.

oldie but goodie!



and this one pretty 1911.

I remember Andy's magazine, used to subscribe it, and I was a little more than 11!

Holy resurection. On a side note, my dad got a ruger SR9C and it is a great shhoting pistol.

Man I miss that magazine!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I used to get it all the time, I've got several years of it saved in a box. I still enjoy going through those back issues from time to time. I was a little more than 11 myself... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I wish I would have had the forthought to have kept them. I wish they would bring it back, and do you know when they stopped printing it?

Did somebody say Glock? Don't know how I missed this thread.....

Nice gear, Hook!

Nice looking group of Glocks Hooker <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Now that I teach a CHL class I get to see and shoot alot of different stuff.

Holy crap! What a small world. I work with John Q. he is no longer gunsmithing. We were just talking about his tools just sitting in storage. I can't believe I never saw this post before.

man i missed this one.


west german p226


s&w 29-3 original grips, with my bird dog


with wood grips

Yo PB52! Wassup man Missed your posts! Hope the world is treating you ok.

Hey Skunkhunter thanks for the PM reminding me I need to get on here more .... and seasons greetings to you and yours too .... since I was last on here and looking at the current posts it was nice to see this one brought back .... and fortunately I have something to post ....

Here in the UK whilst pistols for most types of shooting are illegal you can still own a pistol for the lawful dispatch of Deer ( basically to avoid using a high power rifle in circumstances where it may be dangerous or cause damage .... examples being terminating a Deer which has been hit by a car on the road if called out to do so .... where a rifle round would leave a big hole in the tarmac ) so the moderated Ruger .22 is able to be held for this .... but to shoot C/F pistols in a club would mean shooting at a "heritage centre" and even then old obscure calibres .... things like a Broom Handled Mauser in 7.63 or an old 1911 chambered in .455 Webley supplied under contract for the Navy .... these sort of pistols are still allowed but have to be kept "on site".
Too valuable often to put a lot of rounds through this sort of shooting has never appealed to me .... and therefore to shoot competitive C/F Pistols you have to shoot abroad.

I have tried to keep this up and since the pistol ban over here kept my competition pistol in Switzerland for European Competitions .... for many years I used a 9mm Sig P210 for this which I had modified for the purpose but the single stack magazine was proving to be a disadvantage so despite being a "tug" on the heartstrings I decided to change my pistol to a more competitive one .... and got a CZ "Czechmate" after meeting the CZ Team when last over there.... done by the Custom Shop at CZ to specific orders this is ready to go straight out of the box for the IPSC Open Division or if altered spec wise to Iron Sights which it comes with to the lower divisions ... got it earlier in the year and it is certainly enabling me to do better ....





Here is the "blurb" on the pistol for those interested ....

CZ 75 TS CZECHMATE

The CZ 75 TS Czech mate in cal. 9mm Luger is the latest addition to the Tactical Sports family of pistols designed especially for sport shooting according to the rules of IPSC, the Open Division. This pistol represents an absolute zenith, not only by precision of fit and finish, but also by a wide range of accessories available directly in its standard version. The handgun is custom-built; therefore the quality of workmanship is fully comparable with race pistols built directly to IPSC shooters wishes. Individual parts and components are excellently match fitted, broke-in and tested. Every handgun is outfitted with a four-port compensator, nut for shooting without a compensator, the slide stop with an extended finger piece, the slide stop without a finger piece, ergonomic grip panels from aluminum with a new type pitting and side mounting provision with the C-More red dot sight. For the shooting without a red dot sight there is included a standard target rear sight of Tactical Sports type, package contains also the front sight. The Czech mate is a real top among sporting handguns, now available for
anyone interested in sport shooting.

Technical Data
Calibre 9 mm Luger
Magazine Capacity 20
Trigger mechanism operation SA
Grips aluminum - light alloy
Sights fixed
Overall length 266 mm
Barrel length 13 mm
Height 140 mm
Width 62 mm
Weight 1360 g
Barrel hammer forged
Surface treatment two-tone
Safety features manual safety




Ships with 2 spare fitted Barrels.

Spare Slide stop

3 x 20 round magazine

1 x 27 round magazine

Converter for standard gun, fixed rear sight,
Cmore accessories.

Mercifully the Canton I shoot for in Switzerland has a few wealthy collectors in the gun club and I got a very good offer for my Sig which is a rare model .... that and some help from the CZ Team enabled me to rotate into this almost "on par" .... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

That's a sweet piece of competative hardware right there Steel, nice score!

Here goes a few.

In another thread but oh well




Technically, it's a pistol...

HOLY SMOKE Steel Fan! You had a CLASSIC and got rid of it for another! I hear you about being "hindered" with the single stack. Shame you had to get rid of it though. BUT you got you a nice toy to play with, a REAL NICE toy! Congrats. I couldn't afford a gun like that, let along all the ammo to put it to good use! Good luck in your competitions!

I can't remember when they stopped for sure, maybe about 10 years... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I just remember they sent me a notice saying that the rest of my subscription would be fulfilled by Back Woods Home. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Jeff. I really liked that magazine, but I guess all good things must come to an end some day!

I keep coming back to this thread just to look at this one. Nice!!!

^^^^SWEET!!!^^^^^^

If you're talking about the American Survival Guide, it went under shortly after Y2K turned out to be a non-event.

I had been a subscriber for several years when they really started to talk-up Y2K. I renewed my annual subscription, but stopped receiving my copy so I called them. They told me the magazine went out of business, and when I asked about a refund they said "no".

I still have three or four years worth of the magazine in my "survival library". It was a shame to see it go, because I really thoroughly enjoyed it!

Wow, dogs. That's some serious hardware you guys pack. I am embarrassed to show what I packed today on my little walk in the park. Just a little .380 pocket pistol.



And this folder:



And this little fixed blade shoved in my waistband.




I was not meaning to carry a fixed blade, but the Browning was in my Jeep and I thought it might come in handy if I found some more fatwood. That sheath makes it easy to conceal.

Nice set-up HD. I packed a similar set today.

No reason to be embarassed.(I'm sure your not) Better than a sharp stick, as the saying goes. You're not a victim to be and have peace of mind on your walks.

A .380 in the pocket beats the .44 in the jeep.

Unless you're in the jeep.

That's what I carry too.

keltec makes decent firearms from what I can tell. now I can post pics of my $40 Lorcin .25 and that would be a different story.

my little lorcin is minute of WTF. whenever I shoot it I look at the target and I'm always thinking "WTF!!" pretty sure if I aimed point blank at something I could hit it at least 4 out of the 7 rounds though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I shoot my Keltec just about the same. Long, long trigger pull, tiny grip, short sight radius. It really sucks as a shooter. My little Beretta 21 in .22 LR is much more accurate and a better pistol by far. But it carries well. Better than nothing. Now my Colt Gov't .380 (1911 style) and Bersa Thunder Plus shoot where I aim them. But they don't carry as well as the Keltec.

Ahhhhh the Browning competition blade, WITH a Horn Dog edge! PRICELESS.......

Sssssh. I already got in trouble showing that pic over on the ESEE forum. Like the Keltec, the Browning carries well. It's the sheath that does it. I have a Bark River Hudson Bay and Rogue Bowie that have the same type sheath. Those sheaths are great for concealed carry of a big knife. But my favorite big belt knives, the DFLE and BWM are in swing sheaths. Those are best for way down in the swamp where the sheeple can't see me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

now if i had a ccw this is what i would carry.



star super sm in .380. 8 rounds of .380 center mass will ruin your day

That Star looks very similar to my Colt Government.380.



It is much smaller than a full size 1911 in 45 ACP.



But it is much larger than the Keltec.

Love the Colt Gov't.

I wish it shot as good as it looks. The Bersa beats it in accuracy and reliability. Had a Walther PPK once....for about a week before I sold that POS.
Had an East German Makarov that I loved, but I gave it to my liberal daughter who never calls. Still has the commie star on it. Perfect. So far, the best .380s I have shot are the SIG and the Bersa. For the money, I think Bersa makes the best .380 out there.

can't beat a star, basically a mini-1911. star modeled most of their guns around the 1911 frame. shoots where pointed at, no recoil, and utterly reliable. best $120 i've ever spent.

CZ P-01



Love this gun, comfortable, accurate, reliable and sexy looking...unlike Glocks! j/k, G26 (or 1911) is most likely my next handgun purchase.

As long as were sharing .380s
The Kel Tec accompanies me to the mail box and the gym. If I answer the door it can be in the pocket and not alarm anyone. The CZ 83 is a soft shooter that is just the ticket for a new shooter moving up from a .22LR. And the wife enjoys shooting it.

Gonna check out the S&W Bodygaurd .380. Looks promising.

I have a PP in .32acp and a PPK in .380. Never have an issue with either one.

I also have a star .40ACP that shoot where it points. But it is HEAVY. I've got a Milt sparks IWB holster for it and double mag pouch. But the gun I like to carry the best is my Beloved P225 9mm. Ahhhhh

I like the look of that CZ. Those Czechs make fine pistols.

I like the looks of the little pocket pistols but never found any of them to fit my hands right. most of them put pressure on my fingers with the bottom of the trigger guards. with only two fingers on the grip and a floating pinky I never felt like i had a good hold on the gun anyways. the ones that felt right were all a little too big or too heavy to fit the roll of a pocket pistol. i felt i should be able to reach in my pocket in a stressful situation and be armed. With the little semis I was more likely to end up fumbling it around to get a good grip. fumbling means no rounds in left in the chamber for me cuz I like my junk the way it is. no rounds or even a tiny safty on a tiny gun means more fumbling. other than some impulse buy to stick in a hollowed book safe on a shelf I don't think I could deal with another small semi.

always liked the looks of the beretta tomcats though... seems like a fun way to get rid of a brick .22lr.

so the S&W .38 revolver airweight is just the best choice small frame firearm for me.

I like my P32 with a laser,just point & shoot.
I just wish the trigger was better.
I did tighten my groups after installing the laser despite the trigger.
And with the clip on the side the P32 rides IWB great.

My Colt will hit what I aim at right out of the box.I love this thing,no custom work & don't need it.
Not that I don't want some stuff done though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

And my GP100 is just an all around great gun,I hit what I aim at with it also.
I can't wait to take a deer with it,
one of these days...........
I remember the guy that started Guns & Ammo mag
(_???_Peterson)shot a polar bear with the .357 mag when it first came out,
so I don't feel under gunned when I'm out in the woods & have it stoked with some 180 grain feds.

GP100 is a great gun! I wouldn't feel undergunned against most anything in this neck of the woods. But then again, no grizzly bears here either!

MKT,

Nice combo's!!!

Love that Ruger.

Thanks K.The only better .357 is a Python IMO,but they are selling for over a grand now days.

I had a Colt Python and a S&W 686 at the same time. I preferred the S&W. Can't complain about the Python, though. I still like my 686, but had I known how valuable the Pythons would become, I would have the Python.

I had a Diamondback in .38 that was sweet too.
My ex has it now.

Another Colt I wish I had kept. Very sweet shooter. Had a Colt Detective Spl, too. Then I just went all S&W. Had a Ruger Single Six I liked a lot, too. Never liked my Redhawk. Mine just wasn't right. Ran out of adustment on the windage and it still shot to the left.

Interesting to see that those of you who conceal carry your pistols are finding that a compact pocket pistol is a useful every day tool .... during my time in the military we often had to conceal carry but due to the liklihood of using the pistol most of us favoured what we trained with .... which back then was a 9mm Browning. I remember vividly how awkward these felt if tucked into the waistband under a pullover or shirt ... you used to get a chafed batch of skin from the hammer on your stomach and yes we used to carry them "cocked and locked" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/loopy.gif" alt="" /> so there were other risks too !

We often said it was a long overdue issue that we should have a more compact but reliable pistol .... we had access to the Walther PPK's in .380 but allowing for use against people in vehicles we never really felt it suitable ... it got the name as a "disco gun" because that was how far down the ladder things had to get before we were prepared to carry them.

They also were not as relaible as we would have liked ... this was back in the mid 80's and the incident with Princess Anne's B/G having a jam with his still was "remembered" ....

Now we have compact SIG's in 9mm and these are a great pistol ... but having to shoot and train with a lot of different weapons I still feel that if I am shoving something in a pocket and want it to work all the time I prefer a compact revolver ... a shrouded S&W .38 sp B/G was my choice then and probably would still be today ...

Anyone have one of those or small .44 special ? The .44 special compacts are even better ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

At one time I had a S&W mod 60 chiefs special. Got rid of it. Have a mod 60 5 shot .357mag with a 3 inch barrel. Not ac concealable as the 2 inch but I like it a lot better. Oh it's Stainless. I've got a pancake holster for it and it rides real tight and with out a bulge (except for MY bulge!).

I have 2 J frame S&W .38 spls, the Airweight chief's spl and a 3" bbl titanium Air-Lite. Those were my carry guns for years. I also have the S&W 396 scandium Night Guard and Charter Arms Bulldog Pug in .44 SPL.

WOW Vic. Remind me to never check your pockets (unless I'm looking for a new revolver)! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Those choices you have Vic are probably the same as what I would go for today if I were wanting something for a coat pocket ... the B/G S&W with the shrouded hammer was a J frame IIRC ... ours came from a batch the Special Branch had .... they preferred the Walther PPK unless they were posted to the RUC S/B on secondment .... then they usually went with a 9mm Browning.

The Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 Sp was a good choice back then for carrying something concealable if you were sent abroad where that was a benefit ... the handy thing with those is that they can shoot the .44 Russian cartridge which is still available in the third world where the soviets used to send their old stuff ... India,Afghanistan,Pakistan,Yemen,Djibouti,Somalia ... it has no military restrictions/implication with it and is easy to pick up in the local markets ... ironically it is now a very popular cartridge over here as revolvers chambered for this can be owned "off ticket" as antiques ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The climate is so warm here, that often I only wear shorts and a T shirt. The little pocket autos are more compact than even my smallest revolvers. But I do like revolvers. Funny thing is, I have six of them and none is a 6 shooter!

The little J frame .38s hold 5, and the .22 holds 8.


Both of the .44s also hold 5 rounds.

And my .357 magnum holds 7.

Nice collection HD!

Shorts and a T Shirt have got to be the hardest way to conceal carry Vic ... for me I liked a revolver for it's ability to shoot whilst still in the pocket if the need was there ... so I carried mine in a lose jacket or overcoat ... in Africa I used a fly fishing waist coat because of the heat ... not too much extra clothing ... but in shorts and a T shirt I can see why you'd go for a small auto <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> The thing is finding one which can work well and is good enough for a vehicle scenario ....

I did some looking around at 9mm's when I was going to change my SIG and this one came up when searching ...



It is a Boberg and is interesting for it's size ... it is D/A only but in a pocket pistol for personal defense that's not a total negative allowing for how close you would be in a real situation ... it is expensive though ... but if the need is there it is money well spent ... here is the web link ...www.bobergarms.com if your interested in more information ... if I had the need to carry again I would probably choose this as a back up for the CZ ... the video of the recoil is pretty impressive for a 9mm ...

The Boberg is impressive,I'd never heard of them.
Thanks SF.
Here's a link that works. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
http://www.bobergarms.com/

That's a really interesting feed mechanism, it's almost like the adapted the feed pawls of a Machine gun to feed from the magazine, the chamber is way back over the magazine too. I wonder how reliable it is, if you really had a chance to put it through its paces?

I like the looks of the boberg. looks like it would bw a good fi for my hand. $200-300 less and it would be something I would be willing to consider.

By vehicle scenario, I assume you mean something powerful enough to penetrate a vehicle. There are a number of good compact 9mm and 40 S&W autos available. I suppose I could just pack my SIG P220 under a Hawaiian shirt. But only party animals and tourists wear those. I'd hate to be mistaken for a tourist! My old grandpa packed a .32 Colt pocket pistol in his day. I doubt if he ever used it.
Maybe old farts like me should just stay home. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Vic, If you just stay home, you WILL grow old. Inactivity will do that to you.

I carry a Glock 19 and time and time again that is what I always come back to. But, often I do find it a bit cumbersome. But never do I feel "undergunned".

There may be some merit to the 9mm Vs 45acp debate. Personally I like a 45. It makes a bigger hole and the recoil is not bad. A 9mm makes a smaller hole and will not do as much damage as a 45 (but the depth of penetration may offset this). Any way, Shoot what you are comfortable with, like and most importantly own! There was a reason the saying "beware of the one gun man, he probably knows how to use it" came about.

Would I feel "underguned" with a 9mm? NOPE!

I carry a Glock 19 every day, and have yet to feel undergunned. I think it carries easier than my Sig P229 or P220. Would rather have my G19 on my hip than my Sig in the truck.

I prefer a 9mm because on rapid fire I can control it better and shoot it faster and still hit where I aim compared to a .45 but much of the aim aspect is "subconscious" ... this only comes from lots of practise for me and "one" pistol works best ... especially in comps ... however in Europe a 9mm is the main calibre for comps.

I find that the mussle break works best on a 9mm ... and whilst some may see this as a "competition only" feature ... see if you can find one to try ... and you will be suprised at how they give a real defense advantage as well <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

My favorite "shooter" is my Beretta 92. It just works for me.

Just ran across that Boberg very interesting for a pocket gun. I just bought a Rohrbaugh R9S, but if I had seen this I might have chosen different.

don't know if you guys caught the announcement of the new ruger LC9.

still looks a little too small for my hands. I would like to see the boberg at some point though.

I like it. Full 9mm Luger power in a pocket pistol!

That's what I'm talking about!

Wonder how far behind it a .40 cal is? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />

The Boberg is smaller than the LC9. Too bad you can't get one yet. (Boberg) I did get my name on the list though.

Rohrbaugh is supposed to be coming out with a 45 also.

They're really outstanding for keeping the muzzle flip to a minimum, the only disadvantages I could see are muzzle report and flash. At night in a dark hallway, 1 or 2 shots, and you'll probably be flash blind and your ears ringing. I certainly agree with you though, no reason a pistol couldn't do with a good muzzle brake, just like my rifles all have one type or another.

Skorpyd- Aren't those Rohrbaugh really pricey though? I suppose in comparison to the Boberg, they're comparable, but what price range are we talking about?

The LCR in 9mm might be a ticket, but I need to hold one first.

I'd like to see a LC9 next to a LCP.

Ruger LCR .357 Mag and a BM Assisted Axis Folder.





Concealed carry revolver: Smith and Wesson 460V (just kidding).

Anyone familiar with this handgun? I plan to buy a Glock 30 this year but I am interested in hearing more about this FN. the ammo is interesting for a handgun. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
FN Five/Seven - Holds 20 rounds too.

KS,

IIRC, Ishikawa had one. I looked at one for while. I'd still like to get one. While I've never shot one, a buddy of mine has two and swears by them.

I'd like to see an LCP size double stack pistol in this round. Wouldn't that be cool?

I have a FiveSeven. I love it! It made me rethink the roll of handguns. The term "battle pistol" never really registered to me until I got the fsn.

It's light weight, accurate, and reliable. If you want to find ammo at every corner store it's just not the gun for that. Everything else I'm happy about. Theres some pretty hot ammo out there claiming 2K+ out the pistol with the 5.7x28 round. I couldnt believe what I did at 25 yards my first time out with the fsn. Every range trip (until they banned the round at the range) got better and better.

and there's +10 round extensions for mags that cost $15-$20... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

happy to answer any questions or show you to the people who can.

"It's light weight, accurate, and reliable."

That pretty much sums it up for me. Those were my main questions. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'm not too concerned about getting ammo. How are the ergonomics? Fits in hand well? Comfy to shoot? How about recoil? Similar to what other caliber?

Thanks!

Yes ECF, the Rohrbaugh is pricey , even more than projected price on the Boberg. $1000 for a 9mm only a bit larger than an LCP. I was going to get a Sig P238, until I held one of the Rohrbaghs in my hand. 9mm power in a true pocket gun sold me. I haven't got into black rifles yet so I figured I better get one now.

ergos are good but different. the safety makes sense and you will remember it's the fsn you are holding. you should have it down the first day and be comfortable in a week or so of handling it. even if you frequently use another firearm your fingers will fall right where they need to be to work anything on the fsn.

the grip is long front to back because of the cartridge. I do prefer my fnp45 over the fsn for the grip but the fsn is fine once you hold it a few times and maybe for a minute. please keep in mind that I do not like the glock grips at all. I dont know how it would tranlate to anybody that does. another thing about the size, i read a few times where guys had had to give up the fsn to the better half. so i don't think the grips will be any issue but I recommend holding one before you buy it because it is a unique feel.

i really don't notice the recoil that much. its there but i really just dont notice enough to think about it while I'm shooting. going from my fnp45 to the fsn is like taking a break or something. I would need to shoo some more and actually pay attention I guess. all I think is "dang I like this gun!" I can say that the noise doesnt match the recoil at all. it's a boomer! buy ear to keep close by.

I found these videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR4-WPfnqgw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEzvQPgcpRM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

and nutnfancy does a good 3 part review on the fsn. I still watch it 2 years after owning the fsn and for a guy who never actually used it he hits all points pretty spot on.

price tag and ammo factored into it I would still buy another if I ever lost the one I have.

Those FN pistols have interesting claibres but IMO "blind" designers ... they give me the sense of "loss of oppertunity" that the H&K P9S 9mm's did when I first saw them ... a sort of HUGE lack of beauty ... reminds me of the comic book drawings of pistols ... but you cannot argue at the ingenuity of the calibre .... a 2000 fps round with rifle style ballistic tips and hollow points .... great for those who want to shoot through bullet proof vests ... not so hot for those who have to wear them .... for Civi use I would worry about over penetration if carried in a defensive role .... if the bad guy has no kevlar then the risk of it zipping through him seems high .... I guess it would all depend on the bullet head construction. Lord knows how they would work with a teflon jacket though .... makes you wonder what FN had in mind for the LEO community or the Military when doing them ... I think level III armour might struggle with a teflon jacket ... you would really need a ceramic plate ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Nothing wrong with them in lawful hands but for criminals and terrorists FN just seem to have done a pistol which enables "centre mass" shooting with mild recoil which would negate any of the comfort a low profile armour vest would offer ... so for this reason I have to say I am not very taken with them ... but no doubt other calibres can also do similar .... it is just that those calibres are usually large bore and designed for defense against dangerous game or hand gun hunting .... these pistols are something else ...

Anyway ... apologies if this causes offense .... it just concerns me that FN are a bit irresponsible on this sort of thing .... the LEO and Military have enough to contend with as it is ....

Steel Fan,Congratulations. I commend you on your insightful post. Most folks do not think about these weapons/rounds getting into the "Wrong" hands. Perhaps they were just out to make money, then again perhaps not. I don't know their reasons therefore I can not truly say what their reason was/is. It's still a good post you put up though.

Whew! This thread just got me all hot and bothered! May have to take a few pics of my own. Sooo....the LC9? I was looking at getting a S&W Bodyguard .380 since it comes with a laser and slips right in the pocket or a micro eagle 380, but if the new wave is tiny 9mms, I may hold off--one less caliber I need to reload for.

Interesting thoughts Steelfan. I gotta admit, when I saw it, my first thought was "here's a handgun gun I can nail deer with at 100 yards!" LEO/military concerns never crossed my mind. I can see how it might be an issue though.

My take on it is that it is a bit underpowered for Deer at 100 yards and is not really designed for hunting with such a short barrel .... but we all have a different take on that sort of thing .... when we looked at these pistols over here they did'nt really do anything a teflon round in 9mm could'nt do ... then it dawned on us that simply by doing that with a copper jacketed bullet they were pushing for a different market ... that that was the whole purpose of the calibre ...

FN you see made a lot of money with the Browning HP on military sales in the past ... they lost these contracts mainly to SIG for us and Berretta for you and CZ for the Eastern European market and the Germans have always gone for H&K's or Walther's ... and virtually everyone likes the Glocks .... combine that with the loss of the SLR as our battle rifle and one used by many other Nations ... and they must have been hurting a lot financially.

Some of us felt their going down this route was a bit like giving the finger to the LEO/Military market for not choosing any of their products. Here in Europe nearly all cops day to day armour is the low profile level II ... and whilst pistols can be legally purchased in most countries ... assault rifles and especially cut down pistols of these cannot ... and ofcourse teflon rounds are not available to the civilian market ... so it begs the question whether the FN marketing guys thought "right, lets see what we can do in the "other" side of the market" ... because these pistols can now be bought over the counter throughout Europe and for anyone looking for a pistol to shoot "centre mass" with little or no advanced skill and still take down guys in armoured vests they now have the ideal "solution".

A bit like a London market trader shouting to the crowd ... " get your cop killers here" ... "roll up roll up" ... "so ugly you won't mind dumping them after use" .... "ideal for the up and coming Al Kieda" .... joking I know but you get the point ...

You know Peter, Americans have always wanted to be well armed in defense against a tyranical government. That is really what our Second Amendment was written for. It goes back to King George III. Colonials using those squirrel rifles to knock off British officers wasn't cricket. But having freedom does entail some risks to us all, not just LEOs. Hoodlums and gangsters like firepower, too. And we have all seen just recently in Arizona what mayhem a demented person with a Glock can cause. But the sin is in the user, not the round or the weapon. I'm quite sure that any of my .223 rifles could penetrate the vests most LEOs wear. I have no plans to find out, though. I also have no need of the FN "vest puncher" pistol. But in the event of a complete totalitarian takeover, it would be nice to know that at least some of my fellow peasants could resist the King's knights in their armor with a pistol. You know, peasants were not allowed to own swords, either.

I wholeheartedly agree Vic ... pistols like that in lawful citizen's hands are an example of the practical truth of owning weapons to keep the land free for the citizens who live there and who are entitled to this fundamental right of freedom ....

No greater truth is there in saying that the "sin is in the user" where any weapon is concerned ....

And should the unfortunate situation arise where the bad guys are using them with their own armour vests .... it could be critical that these sort of pistols are also in the hands of the lawful potential victims ....

However, sometimes it just appears that the concept of "peace" and "freedom" being assured by "parity" with arms of all types being available to all sides of any potential conflict .... simply benefits the people who make "the arms" ... and not those who step forward and try to protect those rights to freedom for the benfit of all ...

Your difficulty is when the "Mutually Assured Destruction" theory starts to filter through and then you worry about who has an ability to kill everyone .... and who has not ....

If we all went around strapped with semtex "party jackets" on which could take out the whole neighbourhood .... would we have a "polite society" or a "worried society" and what would be the quality of our freedom ?

Sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand as to what is "out there" and say that if we want our freedom then those who are in the firing line are entitled to ask the arms companies to curb what they sell and to whom the sell it ....

Well said, Peter. I gave up a long time ago in my quest to achieve neighborhood nuclear superiority. Somehow, the word "reasonable" comes to mind. I never got a machinegun, either, even though they are lawful to own in Georgia, and fun to shoot. I can't afford to feed them. It was Ok when Uncle Sugar was buying the ammo. I figured that any gun that I could hit with was a reasonable deterrent. The lowly .22 rifle would likely be the real weapon of the peasants in a resistance anyway. If I can shoot a squirrel in the head at 40 yds, I can place a shot on something bigger. Then when the oppressor falls, I have what he has. It's all in On Guerilla Warfare by Mao Tse-tung. Hopefully, the current revolution will remain at the ballot box. Those of us who have seen the carnage of war and armed revolts are not anxious to see it where we live.

The arms merchants have no motive but profit. That goes at at the macro level, too. There really is a military-industrial complex. Sometimes I think we get into unnecessary conflicts just to justify our massive defense budget. But that's another topic altogether. Certainly the world would be a better place if we could all seek to change ourselves intead of trying to impose some utopian system on others. But until that happens, weapons will remain a necessary evil.

Peter, and HD, thanks for an insightful discussion. Of course HD and I have a lot of the same points of view because we both are American and have been raised in a different society than Peter. Peter I understand your point of view too--and appreciate you sharing it with us.

This is exactly my feelings on the topic.

To question the legitimacy of any cartridge or gun because it poses a threat to law enforcement is the same as questioning spoons for making people fat.

Spoons don't make people fat, and bullets designed to penetrate armor are no more dangerous than a BB for those of us that aren't criminals.

Once we buy into the "for the greater good" argument we might as well line up and wait for our turn in the "shower" at the FEMA camp.

I want the most potent equipment to become and remain available to the civilian population because as Vic stated: the Second Amendment is specifically designed to be used as a defense against tyranny. The purpose for the 2nd was brilliant, because the threat of tyranny will never cease to exist...and therefore...the rights of citizens to keep and bear arms should never be infringed.

Well it's hard for me to make a post without going off into the yonder about whatever. My phone typing skills can't even handle a couple lf sentences much less a bunch of yadda yadda. So I will try to keep it simple.

I'm not a picky type but when I see something unique or very close to what I feel I want then I tend to go for it. I completly understand why anybody could feel the FiveSeven round is a step in the wrong direction. I am also the kind of guy who would agree that a 1911 platform wasnt ever necessary. But I also would've gone out and bought one for myself the first day they showed up in stores. In it's day im sure plenty did not agree with it's design or purpose. I recall some of the earlier days of the Glock and wanted one before I could legally buy a gun (1990ish). When I had the chance to buy one I didn't like it so I bought something different. Ath the time I had learned more about the firearm and it's history spoke volumes. I don't tend to follow the "everybody" way of rationalizing things so I opted for something else. If it doesn't work for one person It doesn't mean dismiss it for everybody or marginalize it's existance.. The FsN fits the "not for everybody" category in way more ways that just its design. Im not qualified enough to justify its true purpose though. But I do understand the reasons for the "Why???" and Im afraid the only really appropriate answer I can see is "Because.."

If I had not purshased the FsN I had planned to purchase another abomination in the form of the AR15 pistol. I doubt my choice means more or less to the local police but I am aware of the many processes it took to place the firearm in my possession. I personally can't see any blame that can be placed on Bass Pro, Toyota, Addias, or the treasury deparment if I wake up tomorrow and do horrible things with a XXXXX product in my hand. I think of it in the same way that we don't generally blame alcohol company's for drunk drivers either. People still would never commit the crime without the supply. I believe a drunk is at his/her most efficient with 151 and a souped up mustang. 151 would be pretty effective but we dont compare a drivers ability to drive though a house while drinking 151 .vs the same house with 80 proof. I do stupid analogies all the time by the way...

I can't say anything that hasn't been said in this thread so far. Good conversation though.. [color:"red"] [/color]

I know there are times/reasons for rounds of this sort. And I am NOT just talking Military/LEO. Heck, I wouldn't mind having a bit of them for "just in case". But my personal theory is I want a bullet that will make as big a hole as it can, to STOP a threat. But again on the other side, at times it IS more beneficial to have one or two others to have to carry a fallen comrade off the field. Catch 22, if you do or if you don't.

Personally I am NOT against the so called Cop Killer bullets and those classified in this catagory. I know there are times when they are the ONLY round that will work for a certain situation, and Not just for shooting someone, but shooting through something.

I just wish that the rounds were open to buy by folks that could prove a "clean" record, perhaps much like having to buy a firearm or CCW license (not talking the FiveSeven here. Heck if it was left up to me ALL the specialty rounds would be available to everyone, but I would be tempted to make sure they were "Good" people, which opens up a whole other ball of wax.

My 2 cents and not stated very well, but perhaps you can get the gist of my thoughts.

Good discussion guys

This ^^^^^ is exactly right, and exactly why the other side wants to ban our weapons.

Kinda off the original topic, but still some good discussion.

I guess I maybe sound wishy washy but I DO think folks should be able to own any firearm/round they want. I just wish there were some way to keep them from over the counter sales to scumbags. But THAT causes again another whole set of problems/infringement upon our rights. I'm even confusing myself now so I'll shut up now.

Glock 19. Reliable and for some reason I just seem to hit what I aim at, something about the way they point maybe. Plus this very easy to carry pistol carries enough ammo to handle just about anything I can envision.

So I may have missed it in the talk of the five-seven, but I've read that the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms) approved the sale of the five-seven in the USA because the round that can penetrate body armor is only available to law enforcement agencies and military. In other words, only sporting ammunition that cannot penetrate body armor is available to the public. That being said, the more I learn about the FN Five-Seven, the more I want one. I like being able to shoot at targets that are farther than 15 yards away from me, and the five-seven looks like a great round for longer distance handgun target shooting. Also, as mentioned earlier, I'm sure there are plenty of rifle rounds that can penetrate body armor, so I don't see opposition (in America) to the five-seven as anything more than an anti-gun political move, just like the ban of the .50 BMG here in California. When is the last time you heard of a crime being committed with a 30 lb rifle that uses ammunition that costs $3+ per round? It was all political. Besides, nobody's freaking out about the .416 Barrett, and that is claimed to be more powerful than a .50 BMG at over 1000 yards.

Back to the handguns, though, I'm really enjoying my new XD9! I'm very happy with the three free magazines I got from Springfield, so now I have 5 total.

I own a couple of Sigs and my EDC pistol is a Glock 19. Reason? Pretty much everything above. I wouldn't even shoot one for years, but when I finally did I realized that I was missing out.

And yet, in today's society, I am constantly amazed at the lack of understanding that we the people seem to have about threat of tyranny. The attitude seems to be complacency--it could never happen in the US; we are too politically advanced for that.

Not advocating jumping into the woods with a militia, but the more I contemplate the subject, the more convinced I am that our freedom is a fragile thing that needs to be nurtured and protected. The more rights we cede to the government, the less we have, even if it means we all feel a little safer. We seem to have a rising generation that neither understands nor cares about the Constitution, the division of powers, or the limits on the federal government.

The erosion of rights happens gradually, bit by bit, like the proverbial frog in the pot. Were you to throw the frog in a pot of boiling water, it would try to escape. But add a degree at a time and it will eventually be boiled alive without trying to jump out of the pot.

While I am not convinced there is a vast conspiracy to take away our rights, I am concerned that we as a society are growing too complacent in our trust in our government, which I am fairly certain, based on their writings, is something that the founding fathers never wanted to have happen. Too often we think of the government as granting us rights rather than those rights innately belonging to us.

The 2nd Amendment stands as a true defense of the rights guaranteed in the Constitution and an ultimate check on the excesses of government. And while I think there ought to be regulations governing the exercise of that right (do we really want mentally unstable psychopaths or violent felons buying guns?), I cringe when the debate turns from rational discussion of how to make sure guns don't get into the hands of dangerous people (not stopping "dangerous guns" from getting into the hands of people) to the need to ban certain types of guns because they look scary or threatening, or preventing people from buying dangerous high capacity magazines. There is an increasingly effeminate segment of our society that is terrified of any sort of weapon and wants to impose their beliefs that guns are the root of all evil onto society as a whole, regardless of what the Constitution says.

I've lived in places where the government grants freedoms; where their constitutions change almost daily and are as meaningless as the papers they are written on. I've seen first hand societies that answer to their governments instead of the other way around. The people's spirits are often broken. Those that demand change or ask at the very minimum that the government abide by its own constitution are punished, persecuted, tortured, or watch their families get tortured. The funny thing is, in just about all of the examples I can think of, once the revolutionary government is set up, the first thing it does is take the guns away from the average revolutionaries and the rest of the citizenry.

For the record, I am NOT by any stretch of the imagination advocating armed rebellion (or even unarmed for that matter). I just appreciate the liberties enshrined in the Constitution and wish that our countrymen would stand up and become engaged in the political system and be adults, willing to exercise their rights and accept the responsibilities.

Wow. That was one heck of a late night rant. I should never type when I'm this tired.

Hey look at that. I guess I AM a right wing nut job.

Remember, George Washington didn't defeat the British by exercising his freedom of speech. He shot them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And to keep this related to the forum, I fully believe the 2nd Amendment protects our right to carry Dogfathers and scrapivores as well <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Apologies if I've offended anyone with this post.

Well said. I think that you have stated the sentements of all us "Right wing Nut Jobs"!

We basically want the Government to SERVE us, NOT be our masters, as it is rapidly doing by leaps and bounds. We are perfectly able to live our own lives without "Them" telling us we don't know how.

To "THEM" I say, IF I want you I will let you know. Otherwise go bug someone else!

Joshua, very much my viewpoint, but written much more eloquently. Thank you.

Very good post DT I'm with you.

You're right Randy, WE are perfectly capable of living our own lives. But sadly a large portion of the population has been so indoctrinated and brainwashed that they can't live thier own lives without someone else telling them what to do. It was one thing to teach and educate, but it's another thing entirely when that schooling renders the learnee inert and incompetent. Alas the product is a grim slow death of a country by a thousand cuts, small infringements here and there on our rights until one day, people will wake up and realize they don't have any rights anymore.

They can come and take them, when they pry them from my cold dead fingers. And NOT before I take the fight to them.

Hmmm...What should I do? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Don't kill the messenger just because you don't like the message. Firearms don't kill --- PEOPLE do! Would the Arizona killings be any more acceptable if they had been done with a knife, a pipe bomb, quarter-stick with ball bearings attached?!? I think not.
NEVER relinquish your freedoms, no matter how "small or trivial" they may seem! The Death of a Thousand Cuts" really IS a threat to a free society, and folks should be aware of it! Our founding fathers KNEW what they were doing! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I often find myself in my wishes for a society where we all CAN get along together confusing others and sometimes myself when I actually THINK about it. I want a polite society where everyone gets alongs and plays nice. WON'T HAPPEN! So just let me live my life with the MORAL values that have been instilled in me, WITHOUT government intruding upon my life and I will not intrude upon them. BUT in 1972 I took an oath to defend the United States Of America, against any and ALL threats both foreign AND domestic, if necessary. I do not take back my oaths!

They are supposed to work FOR us, not against us. If they don't, we should fire them and elect someone else next time.

It's about time, it's PAST time for THEM to realize that a weapon, ANY thing that can be used as a weapon, is not evil and does NOT need to be Banned. IT'S THE EVIL PEOPLE that need to be seen about, not a tool.

all good stuff but uh... I think we got a tad bit off track. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

so I think from now on Im going to go with 9mm instead on .40 cal. I'm mostly a paper puncher and that extra $5 or so just means more holes I can punch with 9mm. I'm sure if I was in situations that put my safety at higher risk I could justify the price for the added punch of .40 but I look back and can't see any reason for the extra $$$ I was dishing out.

I'm liking the FNX9 and/or the XD9 at this time. I will eventually get the FNX9 as my go to firearm because the controls are very similar to my FNP45. I really like my FNP45 and it would be great for hd but it is a little to bulky to lug around. I want the XD9 just because it caught my interest with the Glock comparisons and doesn't have the odd Glock feel.

I made the mistake (?) of picking up and handling a 3.8 inch Barrel XDm in 9mike mike today... I think I'm in love! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" />

Please excuse my ignorance, but we are talking SD9 as in Springfield Armory, right? If so a deputy has one and LOVES IT! It does feel pretty good in the hand, course his is a .40.

lazi, I agree. 9mm is a good round. The 9mm/40/45 argurment will never end. That's ok. It's better to be able to place accurate shots (as in NOT flinching) and stop the threat than just get a "grazing" shot and get your A** beat!

Lazi is talking about the original XD, I believe? I am talking about the XDm, the newer line that SA released, 2009 I believe.

This is the Original XD, theres a few differences and design tweeks, but otherwise they're the same pistols.


And the XDm, it was mainly upgraded for ergonomics over the XD, and it shows in the grip circumfrence.



Some of the improvements include a recontoured slide, the slide on the XD is a square contour, like the glock, the XDm has an angled slide profile, supposed to allow for better contact with the slide when racking the pistol. The picatinny rail molded into the frame also has additional cross slots, allows for a little more leeway mounting a light/laser, and the grip texture has also been significantly altered to add positive grip. Internally, the XDm comes with a match grade barrel, the XD does not. And lastly, the XD, during disassembly, required the user to pull the trigger to remove the slide from the frame. Apparently someone who doesn't know how to properly clear a firearm thought that the trigger pull may result in an accidental discharge (I've never had that problem), so Springfield Armory changed the disassembly procedure, and not the XDm can be disassembled without a trigger pull.

Good Post ECF,

A couple of other small differences to note:

-XDM has a higher capacity magazine (16 rd. mag vs. 12 rds in the origional service model XD .40)

-you can change the back strap on the grip for variation in grip size

-has better recoil system (heavy duty guide rod spring)

-Also, the newest XDM models have an even more different contoured slide.

- There is a new XDM compact that was just released.

For what it's worth:
I've had three XD's in .40 Smith and Wesson and one XDM40. I kept XDM40 and will pick up a XDMC 40 when it's available. My cousin had shot both the XDM and XD and decided on the XD. For him it just fits him a bit better. I've watched him hit small targets at one hundred yards with his XD40 (I cannot do the same with either gun). He owns two XD40s and won't trade them for anything.

Both are reliable, ergonomic, accurate and affordable pistols.

XDM40
Ruger LCP

EDC Blades: HAK and BM Barrage D2

I must be seeing things, but I swear there is a warp in your picture at the top of the XDm's slide, about an inch and a half back from the front sight.

Nice looking piece btw, I love the two tone stainless look

Ha!

Good Catch ECF. I used the swirl effect to blur the serial number on my LCP and must have gotten a bit over zealous.

Nice guns, how do you like the Ruger LCP?

BC,

I like the Ruger LCP for its intended purpose. It goes with me everwhere that it is legal and at "bad breath range" I'm sure it would give me a fighting chance. I have a CT laser on the LCP. However, my XDM usually rides in my crossbreed holster IWB.

I've been looking for a 5" 460V for a while now. I was so impressed with it's performance in the 8 1/2 bbl that I have to get one for coyote/pig hunting. Have you chronographed that revolver yet? Are you loosing much fps? Just curious, please tell us about it.

Thanks, Fred

Welcome to our forum Fred!

Colt Double Eagle and my Regulator. Now, is that a fist full of knife or what?

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/diman54/GEDC0001.jpg

Very nice DJ! Don't see many of those Double Eagles around here.

Thanks rth! I ran into that one about 10 years ago. I couldn't pass it up.

I have this thing for 1911 .45's.
Top left: pre Series 70 Colt Commander; Bottom left: Series 70 MKIV Gold Cup
Top right: Colt Double Eagle; Bottom right: Springfield Armory 1911A1, with some mods done to her.

I even like "old" .45's
Top one is a Cimarron SAA in .45 Colt, bottom one is a Colt 3rd Generation SAA .45 Colt

Welcome Fred!

I have not chronographed the 460V. I've never shot anything with the 460V but pumpkins and cans. Unfortunately, they do not make the 460V anymore. It carries well in a shoulder holster and not too bad on a belt. They still make the snub nose though. Crazy to think that it has NEARLY as much energy at the muzzle as a .308 Win.

Nice collection! I don't have any 1911's. My dad inherited an old US Army 1911, manufactured by Singer, I think. I know it's not a Colt manufacture.

My grandpa carried it religiously when he was fishing and digging ginseng. It's no safequeen.

Edited: Only 500 Singer manufactured were made. I'll bet it's NOT one of those! And seems like I remember it being a typewriter maker, so probably Remington Rand.

Nice collection DJ!

Those are some beautiful examples of Old Slabsides. I like just about any pistol, but there is just something magical about a 1911 that makes you want to use and carry it everywhere.

You guys are making the wait on my 1911 all that much harder

The Commander is my carry gun, the Gold Cup is my "Sunday-go-to-
Meetin'" gun, the Springfield was going to be a pin gun but I never got that far with it, and the Double Eagle is my workhorse gun.

I've been drooling over the new Remington 1911, but does a guy really need 5 .45 automatics?

when does a guy not need more guns? (exluding financial factors)

nice dj!! the things i would do for a 70 series colt...

Thanks for all the kind comments, guys!
Not long after I got that Double Eagle, I took it down to give it a good cleaning. (It's a first generation DE.) I made the mistake of taking the left side grip panel off. All the de-[censored] goodies are under that grip panel. It was nip and tuck there for awhile whether I was gonna get it back together again or not.....

Are you guys telling me that 1911s are like Bussekin?, I'm getting my first 1911 next week, I can't afford another expensive collection!

I have been thinking about a particular 1911.

Yup, pretty much. One just doesn't do it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Worse! You can't buy a 1911 and leave it alone, there's always mods to be made. It's as bad as Black Rifle Disease!

I've noticed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Found some un sold old stock here in California (460V 5"). Now I just have to make the time to travel a little to get it. They actually had it on sale a while back for the holidays. Maybe I can talk them into selling at the sale price. Now comes the hard part of finding the across the chest holster in leather.

Fred

Good luck! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />

I'll bet if you looked on some of the pistol forums you'd find a sheath maker that would fix you up.

Fred,

I'd snatch that V up if it's still there. I have not seen any around here in WA for a while now. I'm sure that you can find a holster. There are a ton of leather benders that could make an amazing hoslter. I'd love to make a shoulder set-up with a 460V on one side and the S5LE on the other. Man, what a set-up that would be. I'd like to see what you end up with.

I know I posted a picture of this one already but it's feels like I found out unicorns are real or something. I'm pretty excited! I can't wait to be able to make a move on one of these. this os number one on the birthday or christmas present to self list.

A .357 1911... And yes the reviews by most owners suggests it is a accurate and reliable. And they include a spring that will let you shoot .38 spl.

Nice 1911...who makes it?

it's a coonan. never heard of it or have seen it before. it seems a few guys who has been around are aware of them and they seem to have a bit of a cult following. im drinking the kool aid myself right now. it's like a mash up of a couple of guns I want. but also had the price tag of multiple guns i want.

I'm not attracted to the grizzly or the desert eagle in .357 but this one really looks like my kinda hand cannon. even throws a mean flame when it shoots. looks like it's built like a tank and should be at 42oz empty.

www.coonaninc.com

I remember holding one of the Coonons a while back. Not a bad feeling pistol.

But would it hurt to have 5 .45 Automatics??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I can't imagine it would be "fun" to shoot a LAR Grizzly... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

lazi, what you needed was an Automag! Now THAT'S a gun!

Back in the mid to late 80's the Coonan was very well received in the shooting world ... having a rimmed cartridge it had a very tight seal in the chamber and the velocity from the .357 ammo was a fair bit higher than from a comparable revolver ... it also functioned very well and the example we had at our gun club was very popular. It only had the one mag though ... otherwise I and a few others may well have bought it ... but the ability to get spare mags was not easy back then.

The owner of the club was the guy who brought it back in to the U.K. and it was one of the first over here ... we had a good number of serious shooters back then at the club ... many on the international competition circuit and all of us liked it ... Bob Dunkerly shot with us back then ( former world Pratical Pistol Champion ) and he could shoot some very tight groups with it ... it had exceptional accuracy, as good as my 9mm Sig P210 and the club's 6 inch .357 Python ... and from later shooting a Desert Eagle the ergonomics on the Coonan were much better and so were the groups ... it is a great handling piece ...

The company started to get into financial trouble and was wound up IIRC ... and these became rare pistols ... the next time I saw one was in South Africa ... almost perfect for over there as it could handle personal defense just as good as wild-life defense ... and the guy who had one had enough mags to make it work in both roles ...

Again IIRC one querk was the mag was a real hard one to load ... very tough spring for the last rounds and fiddly because of the rim on the case ... a pin for the mag follower was really needed ... but the pistol was a great bit of gunsmithing ... more or less custom quality because of the small operation. Well worth getting one if they have started doing them again ... perhaps the only .357 Magnum semi auto which is worth it IMO ... as a one gun pistol for a hunter/self defense requirement it is a great choice ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Nope! Doesn't everybody have 5 of 'em? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[censored] it guys. I got to thinking that with me reloading for the 45 acp there is no real ue to have a Glock 19. If the end of the world comes I will have more than enough ammo for my 45 acps. I really like the idea of Kimber's Carry since it is a 4" brl on a compact frame. Need to do some reading and see how they are working since summer gun will be needed soon.

Oh yeah, still thinking the Ruger LCR in .357 mag is needing to be tried out.

I'd love a 1911 in 9mm. A used Para in 9mm sold for cheap recently but I just couldn't stomach the 40 dollar magazines.

The Springfield EMP and some of the smaller Kimbers really are nice but they are overpriced. I guess the market bears it though.

For now I will stick to me cheap Glock.

BTW, if you guys haven't stuck a stainless guiderod in your Glock yet you must give it a try!

only have one .45, a rock island armory. feel the niche of have a .45, being cheap, and not bad of a pistol.

I haven't hit that point yet....not sure there is even such a thing as to many guns and for that matter knives <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I just got a S&W 500 cal Bone Collector. It is now my favorite gun at least until the next one I pull out to shoot <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Dan

I have a stainless rod in my 2nd Gen 19. It does make the pistol feel nice when shooting. I have held the 9mm 1911's but it just isn't for me considering the price of the mags and from a reloading standpoint.

Dan, don't you mean a 500 bone CRUNCHER! Man shooting that 500 has gotta be rough!

Dan Coonan has been, of late making FAL receivers. He started doing some gunsmith/manufacture work for FAC back in the 90's and 2000's when his own company had taken a bit of a hit.

Coonan does good work. His FAL receivers are about on par with Imbel or DSA. His .357 auto was well thought of back in the 80's when it was introduced.

PBL, I wondered if the DC of the FAL world was the same as the one from the .357 mag world.

I have to say I am very taken with the .357 Coonan but if I were really going to go for one I would prefer one with a barrel extension in front of the slide with a compensator fitted .... the flash from the Coonan is quite noticeable and indicates unburnt powder .... this in turn will have an effect on fouling and reliability .... if you could extend the barrel a little akin to a custom .45 I think it would make all the difference ....

They say a 6 inch barrel is really needed to burn the powder for a .357 and from shooting the Coogan it needed cleaning after 30 rounds or so ... about 3 mags worth to keep it reliable ... the main issue was fouling and the heat seemed to evaporate the lubrication more readily ... the rapid ability to shoot .357 loads certainly created a lot of heat in the barrel ...

3 mag's is enough for personal defence and way more than you would get the chance to use for defense against dangerous game ... so on a practical level there are no real issues ... but for comps or practise the ability to shoot it a bit longer would be helpful before needing to clean it ...

Intersting point ... the guys who develop the Desert Eagle were gunsmiths working at Coonan prior to it going into receivership ... but for my money the Coonan is a much better handling pistol ... great for those of us with largish hands ... it feels better for me than a straight stacked .45 ... certainly if you want a pistol which can shoot heavier loads than 125g as used in .375 Sig or the 9mm+ ... (and the Coonan can shoot rounds up to 158g and is not limited to full metal jackets like the Desert Eagle )... it makes for a compelling case for owning one ...

I might e-mail them to ask about a custom race type model .... no harm in asking ....

Well... I don't have 5, but I sure have 5 that I want!

I've got 3. Does that get me into the 80 percent club? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Actually My Sig P220 is just a tad big in the grip for me. I have to turn it ever so slightly in my hand to get a good reach on the trigger. My Colt and Springfield Armory (both single stacks) are just right. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I was looking at one of the new Remington R1 .45's today at a gunshow in Pittsburgh. Tell you what, for $595 out the door, one of those Remmy's may just be #5.

Not bad at all...may be enough to entice me back into the 1911 fold.

Steel Fan, I thought about having a coonan with a longer barrel as well. I saw a picture on gb with longer barrels and compensators but I think I'd be happy just knowing I have the extra bit over the revolver myself. i would like to have the option to thread the barrel if I should ever pick up a suppressor and a lever action in .357/.38 like I intend. I think they would make for a really quite combo with .38 special and a good hunting combo with .357.

and here's a picture I spotted on gb if you need a few ideas.



I kind of hope they decide to bring back the cadet as well.

I actually do not see much difference from shooting the 44 mag...other than cost per shot. Now that 454 Casull is the meanest thing I have ever shot.

Dan

Has anyone shot one of these Rem 45"s. I would be interested in knowing how the handle

Dan

I wonder if you're not shooting downloaded rounds then, most of the factory loads I have shot were pretty pleasent to shoot, not overwhelming at all. Now, as far as handloads go, the .500 can be loaded WAY hotter than most factory loads you will come across. I think that is where the reputation of mauling your wrist and occasionally getting hit in the face with the gun comes from. There is a local fella around here who collects brass all day at the local ranges, and he carries a beauty of a 1911 as well as his .500, and he's let me fire a couple handloads. I tell you, a couple was all I could handle, and I'm not recoil sensitive.

As to the Remington R1. I have not shot one yet, but have fondled a few of them at the gun store. I must say that it has a lot to offer. I do know there are a few guys that are changing the internals, going to beavertails, etc. One thing that I like is the looks of simple and not cluttered with all kinds of "extras". Now, if Remington would make it without all the slide engraving I would be really tempted.

Well, for my money, if I had ANY, a 3-5 shot bolt action 14 inch barreled HANDGUN with the bolt handle on the LEFT side in a .24-.25 something caliber. I had an XP100 in .223 once and liked it, but didn't like the single shot bolt part. Nothing wrong with them, just rather have the CHOICE of fast followup shots if needed.

I know I'm gun ignorant, but when did Remington start making a Pistol (again)?

2010. Supposedly all made here in the US.

Nice lookin gun.

Many thanks for the photo Lazi ... of those pictured I like the top left and second in from the bottom right ... but I would prefer removing the front blade sight from the slide and attaching a Novak diode front sight to the compensator with adjustable Novak rear sights ... this would give a fixed front sight when the pistol cycles and is an advantage in tracking the sight when rapid firing ...

When I went for a Sig P210 back in the 80's I went for the target model having had the oppertunity of shooting both for this reason ...



The sights were'nt the best for carry use and later I sent it to Novak for a set
of their diode sights which I highly rate and got them to do a 1911 mag release modification ... then later on I had a custom pistolsmith over here do a compensator attachment to the front sight mount which is detachable ... back then that was one of the first tricked up Sig's done and I did well with it ... it also worked excellently as a carry pistol and has great "balance" ...

Recently when I found the mag changes were just slowing me down too much and I went for the Czechmate the modifications I have done are the same ...



Take off the slide which has the mounts for the optics and use the slide with normal rear sights changed to Novak's and the front sight I have attached to the compensator ... I prefer shooting the pistol this way as it works fine like this as a carry pistol if need be and using normal sights is second nature for me now and changing to an optic sight would throw me ... I shoot much better this way too ...

Now using the Coonan as a base model or buying one of the two in the pic you found would give a very similar set up ... ideal really ... but as the Coonan has a cammed barrel operation akin to the 1911 I think you would need to be looking at an expensive light weight ceramic silencer for it if you were to avoid jams from the weight of the silencer affecting the camming action ... there are plenty of people I am sure who could do that sort of work though ... and having it interchangeable with the screw threads for a compensator sounds a great idea ... especially if you have the .38 special conversion spring so it can cycle on lighter rounds ... a good silencer would keep the .38+ rounds it is designed for under the 1140 fps so there would be no sonic crack when fired ...

I have this same set up for the Czechmate in the pipeline but am using one of the extra barrels supplied with it for the project as that barrel would need to stay in the UK as the Swiss are not yet "sound moderator/health and safety" conscious as we are over here. I am speaking to my Police Firearms Dept to see if I can switch the pistol on my ticket for Deer dispatching to the Czechmate on the basis it simply would save extra hassle of two pistols ... and we will see what the say ... they are'nt keen on civi's having military calibre's for this sort of thing with high capacity mag's ... but there is case law allowing them.

Pesonally though if I was Stateside and had access to custom pistolsmiths ( our's went overseas or out of business when the ban came in ) I would look at altering the Coonan to bring the weight of the fixed front sight nearer to the camming action and thus reduce the risk of a stoppage ... it would also benefit fitting a silencer too as the mechanical leverage force would be less than on a longer barrel position ... I would try and replicate the work done to this Limcat Custom Comp pistol ... it has the fixed front sight mount dovetailed into the slide ... very nice work but very expensive too ...



This model is their "Wildcat Perfect Sight" model and I really like the features ... done in .40 S&W but available in other calibres ... however when you compare the price of these to the Czechmate and all the extra barrels/slides/sights which come with it you sharp realise what a comparative bargain the Czechmate is ... especially if as overhere in Europe 9mm is the main claibre for ISPC comps ... in fairness both of these are "very expensve" but I would rather own "one" top end pistol than a "number of pistols" where the final total is the same ... it's just a personal preference ... some like more variety ... and each is good ... and compared to the cost of the Limcat Custom's you could have a very effective Coonan for quite a fair bit less ... and those Coonan's shoot very accurately <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

SF, That last gun is one of the most beautiful guns I have ever seen.

I agree. First thing I noticed were the "holes in the slide". I have a factory stock Springfield Armory ultracompact V10 that comes standard with 10 holes in the slid that match up of course with those in the barrel. Works too, but Man does it vent out the top. DO NON shoot it in the retention position! Oh and at night, it has the prettiest V shaped flames shooting out the top!

With Limcat being a custom maker you can order the pistol without the venting holes in the barrel/slide ... here is a pic showing it without ...



and the same with this digi-cam model ...



Personally if you want the benefit of a compensator I prefer them on the end of the barrel infront of the sights ... the flash generated by the compensator can then be controlled by the powder/load you select for shooting indoors ... although generally with 9mm the flash is mild as most of the powder is burnt in the barrel ... the hotter your cartridge though the greater the flash ...

I am still waiting on an answer to an e-mail to Limcat regarding the price of these ... when the prices are not on the web-site you know it is likely to be expensive ... and for some reason I cannot get the gun order form to open on their home page where I assume the pricing would be ...

A very good design though .... and I have to agree very pretty ...