Scrap Yard Knife Company

Help me pick a rifle!

Posted By: MRpink

Help me pick a rifle! - 11/21/09 05:03 AM

Trying to narrow down which rifle to get is tough!! Looking for something that's versatile but packs a punch if SHTF.

I had my heart set on the Saiga 7.62x39 because it's reliable, affordable, and AK mags can be modified to fit, but governor terminator here in cali passed AB962, preventing any online ammo sale; there goes my chance in the future to order cheap 7.62 and finding it locally isn't going to be fun. Saiga in .308 would be nice but it's sold out and cost more. M1A is too expensive for me right now, and I hear a lot of mixed reviews about the Mini-14. What to do??
Posted By: banana-clip

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/21/09 05:13 AM

Miliary surplus rifles are cheap and ammo is plentyful.

Mosin Nagant M-44 7.62 x 54 (Big 5 used to sell them under $100.00)

SKS 7.62 x 39 (still shoots ak ammo, but a great gun for the money, can find bulk ammo realitively cheap at local gunshows)

8 mm Mauser (bolt action, accurate and still realitivley cheap)

Remington 700 .308 (accurate and ammo easy to find)

Norinco M1A (Cheaper than springfield armory)

12 gauge pump shotgun (Remington 870, Mossburg defender) Pack a punch for SHTF, can use slugs and buck shot.

Marlin 336 30/30 (cheap gun and ammo is cheap, lever actions are nice too)
Posted By: MRpink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/21/09 05:16 AM

Thanks for recommendations! I'm going to do my research on those. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: banana-clip

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/21/09 06:20 AM

I regret getting one of those Saigas back in the day when they were like $250.00, especially the .308
Posted By: kuanomar

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/21/09 08:08 AM

I love these discussions. What a great problem to have... Here are some questions to consider. How you answer those can greatly improve specificity of the information given.

1) What's your price range? (cost of gun and cost of ammo)

2) What are you planning on using this for and what percentage of time? (what are you hunting, where are you hunting it? how do you hunt, how often?)

3) What other guns do you have that play a similar role?

4) Do you reload?

5) Is there any feature that you have to have or are definately against?
Posted By: sportsnut

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/21/09 08:11 AM

Here is what a stock 308 Saiga looks like.
[Linked Image from i8.photobucket.com]

Here they are after a lot of work.
[Linked Image from i8.photobucket.com]
Posted By: kuanomar

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/21/09 08:18 AM

Sportsnut,

Those are great!!
Posted By: AZ fishhead

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/21/09 08:46 AM

I have, or have had, all of the rifles that have been mentioned thus far. All were respectable shooters. Another one to consider is a Savage 110 or 111. I own several and all have shot circles around my Remingtons unless the Remingtons were rebarreled. Savages are also much more affordable. Do not be afraid of the used ones as well. If you are patient you can get one with a shot out barrel for cheep and swap out the barrel. It only takes simple tools and skills to change these barrels… Just a thought…


If money is the true deciding factor mosin nagants are impossible to beat. I have three that I have purchased for less than $100 and have killed elk with them bone stock.
Posted By: banana-clip

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/21/09 05:42 PM

You can still get a M1 Garand pretty cheap now from CMP, think the Springfield Armory sell for around $550.00.

I got one a few years ago and its a sweet shooter and 30.06 ammo is still decent priced from there too. I don't know if you can get them delivered to california though. just another option for you.
Posted By: Private Klink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/21/09 06:05 PM

MRpink stipulated that the rifle would be for a shtf scenario, not necessarily for hunting. I think that the SKS would be a decent choice, as the ammo is still reasonably cheap and it's still powerful enough for hunting deer-sized game. It would enable him to get several rounds downrange in a hurry if needed, and they are very reliable. I saw first-hand what they are capable of in VietNam - they will get the job done! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Devil 505

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/21/09 07:48 PM

Quote
You can still get a M1 Garand pretty cheap now from CMP, think the Springfield Armory sell for around $550.00.

I got one a few years ago and its a sweet shooter and 30.06 ammo is still decent priced from there too. I don't know if you can get them delivered to california though. just another option for you.

Good call on CMP. I'm having trouble finding .30 (M1 Carbine) locally but have no problem finding 30.06 or .308. I like to think that I have ammo requirements that will not be hard to find down the road.
Posted By: lazi

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/22/09 01:04 AM

I just got bonus of sorts so I think I may try to snag a SGL21 if I can. The prices are creeping back up but they were around $500 a few weeks ago. $550 now...

Just have to find a FFL I'm okay with. One owner of the place where I work could probably do it but he is also the guy I told that I was quitting because they suck. Probably don't need to ask for any favors right now.
Posted By: banana-clip

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/22/09 02:26 AM

I think the SKS is a great SHTF gun, but a 12 guage shotgun might be a better option.

1)Ammo is cheap and plentyful for a 12 guage.
2)You can buy 12 guage shell almost everywhere.
3)You can get a variety of shells like, slugs, birdshot and buckshot.
5)You can use a 12 guage for home defense and for hunting a variet of game from birds to larger game like deer.
6)very reliable, pump shotguns don't jam very often.

The only downfall I can think of from a shotgun is you don't have the distance you have from a rifle.

Here is a Mossburg 500 Cruiser, which is a great SHTF gun.

[Linked Image from i46.tinypic.com]
Posted By: Private Klink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/22/09 07:09 AM

A 12 gauge shotgun is a great suggestion, but MRpink stipulated a RIFLE for a shtf situation. Personally, I believe in having BOTH! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: dl351

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/22/09 07:17 AM

Hey there, MrPink. I'm from your neck of the woods (east bay) and am disgusted by the gov't here, too. You'll have to double check about online ordering of ammo, because AB962 is specifically for handgun ammunition. Since 7.62x39 is not handgun ammo, you may very well still be able to order it online. Also, that bill doesn't go into effect for a while (February 1, 2011). If you want to help repeal it, go hear:

http://nramemberscouncils.com/petition/

Also, here's some info on it that says it would ban mail order of only handgun ammo:

http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml?summary=ab962&year=2009

As for my recommendation, I'd get a .30-06 rifle. I know most are bolt action, but a lot of reviews I've read say that semi-autos are less accurate. For a real shtf scenario, I'd say go with a 12 gauge shotgun. I just shot my friend's Benelli shotgun today, which is semi-auto, and it was nice! A recent Big 5 ad had them for about $350. I've had other friends recommend the Benelli Nova, too. To me, especially here in CA where hi-cap mags are banned, I think a shotgun is a better shtf gun than a rifle. Just my 2 cents.

As a side not, I shot my friends double barrel 12 gauge today, both shots at the same time, and that kinda hurt!
Posted By: banana-clip

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/22/09 07:43 AM

Thats a great deal for a Benelli semi auto
Posted By: dl351

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/22/09 08:00 AM

Quote
Thats a great deal for a Benelli semi auto

Oops! I double checked and it's a pump! Sorry for the mistake! Regardless, it's a Nova Tactical and like I said, other friends have recommended the Benelli Nova to me.
Posted By: dl351

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/22/09 08:03 AM

Wow! I started really looking around for semi auto Benellis, and man, those things are kinda expensive! Forgive me for my ignorance! I've looked at rifles and handguns more than shotguns.
Posted By: coyotebc

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/22/09 10:42 AM

Couple of good starter rifles here
http://www.savagearms.com/st_200long.htm
http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=8&section=products
Posted By: SkunkHunter

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/22/09 11:52 AM

dl351: Don't know if it is still the same or not, buy years ago I had a browning that was a vertual clone (dame gun/different name?) that you MIGHT be able to get for cheaper than the benelli.
Posted By: Sethrotull

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/22/09 10:34 PM

Some great suggestion here. Let me throw in my 2cents. For value I don't think you can beat a lever action and the 30-30 is a great cheap round and Marlins in that configuration are cheap. If you want something a little more versatile get a lever action in 357. A great companion to a revolver and they shoot 38s. Marlins would be my choice, they're a closed top reciever making scope mounting easier if you want, but they are a touch more expensive. Rossi makes a 16" barrel carbine that holds 8+1 sweetness in a small package, plus they don't get a second look. People say Levers hold less then most semis with magazines, but the nice thing is like shotguns you can "top-off" levers while you shoot.
Posted By: Devil 505

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/22/09 11:09 PM

Quote
Some great suggestion here. Let me throw in my 2cents. For value I don't think you can beat a lever action and the 30-30 is a great cheap round and Marlins in that configuration are cheap. If you want something a little more versatile get a lever action in 357. A great companion to a revolver and they shoot 38s. Marlins would be my choice, they're a closed top reciever making scope mounting easier if you want, but they are a touch more expensive. Rossi makes a 16" barrel carbine that holds 8+1 sweetness in a small package, plus they don't get a second look. People say Levers hold less then most semis with magazines, but the nice thing is like shotguns you can "top-off" levers while you shoot.

Good points. It makes sense to have the ability to carry just one type of ammo in SHTF situations by matching rifle to handgun. Your example of the .357 is a good one.
Posted By: Magnum22

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/22/09 11:35 PM

mini 14 mixed reviews? it would be my second choice after the garand.

do you have a .22? i'd want a good .22 rifle with tons of ammo that's easy to find, afford, and carry. i'd combine that with a magnum caliber revolver.
Posted By: Wiggitty

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 12:00 AM

someday i'd like to have a .357 revolver/lever action combo.
Posted By: J33psr0ck

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 01:53 AM

Given the legalities you are faced with, I would second the Garand. They are one of the finest rifles ever produced in my opinion. I really think lever guns are underrated. The real hillbilly's I shoot with who live "off the grid" have all sorts of rifles to choose from but they carry lever action rifles when they are "out on the land" 95% of the time. Shooting with them has really made me look much more positively at lever guns.
Posted By: dl351

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 01:53 AM

Quote
do you have a .22? i'd want a good .22 rifle with tons of ammo that's easy to find, afford, and carry. i'd combine that with a magnum caliber revolver.

I'll second the .22 cal. I know it's not the biggest baddest round available, but if you plan on doing very much shooting, a .22 is the way to go. I should have listened to people when I got my first gun. I was over anxious to get a handgun so I got a cheap .380 acp. Bigger than a .22? Yes, but it's expensive to shoot. I later got a Savage .17 hmr, which I love, but still find myself wanting a .22 rifle. A recommendation from my mistake: get a .22 rifle if you don't have one already.
Posted By: MRpink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 06:29 AM

Quote
I love these discussions. What a great problem to have... Here are some questions to consider. How you answer those can greatly improve specificity of the information given.

1) What's your price range? (cost of gun and cost of ammo)

2) What are you planning on using this for and what percentage of time? (what are you hunting, where are you hunting it? how do you hunt, how often?)

3) What other guns do you have that play a similar role?

4) Do you reload?

5) Is there any feature that you have to have or are definately against?

1) $500 max, higher if I can get this job I've been after.

2) I mainly want a reliable rifle for SHTF scenario (zombie outbreak <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ). I haven't been hunting before, but having the ability to do so would be a big bonus.

3) No rifles at this point, only one 9mm pistol I recently picked up.

4) No, but I plan to pick up the equipment once I find what suits me.

5) I'm pretty open to anything as long as ammo is easy to get locally (big 5, walmart, gun stores). So far, I'm leaning towards .308, 7.62x39, and .223. I'm trying to keep the rifle compact, around the size of mini-14/saiga (~37" overall).

I'm definitely picking up a .22lr rifle, just wanted to get a battle rifle before they pass more ridiculous laws (hopefully not). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for all the inputs everyone, a lot of things to consider, so little money. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Magnum22

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 06:49 AM

Quote
I'm definitely picking up a .22lr rifle, just wanted to get a battle rifle before they pass more ridiculous laws (hopefully not). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />

that makes perfect sense.

i have to ask, if money wasn't that big a concern, what would your first choice be?
Posted By: MRpink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 07:02 AM

As you guys know I'm pretty new to firearms and haven't handled to many so that's a hard question for me to answer, but right now I'd have to say my first choice would be a Springfield M1A.

With that in mind, a mini-14 would be the ideal rifle for me because I wanted a more compact M1A, but I'm learning about different calibers and haven't completely settled on .223 yet. I've been reading with the mini-30 (7.62x39), it hard to get good magazines and it doesn't shoot the real cheap wolf/surplus stuff as well as the saiga.

Everything keeps pointing back to the Saiga for me, affordable and reliable. The 7.62x39 and .223 are both under $350, whereas the .308 is $510. I do plan to pick up M1A eventually so with the .308 saiga I'll have ammo ready to go, but can't really afford .308 after shipping + ammo right now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: dl351

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 07:13 AM

Quote

I'm definitely picking up a .22lr rifle, just wanted to get a battle rifle before they pass more ridiculous laws (hopefully not). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />

Well, as far as ridiculous laws here an CA, I'd be more concerned about handguns than rifles. They've already instituted an assault weapons ban here. If you can get enough money, I'd say go for some .223 AR 15 variant that would be banned were it not for the "bullet button." From what I've read, the bullet button has not actually been approved by the DOJ here, but it hasn't been deemed illegal either. I was at a gun shop out where silverbullets and I live and they have a few AR type rifles with bullet buttons. If you don't know what the bullet button is, you can look at this:

http://www.goldenstatetactical.com/bullet-button.html
Posted By: Magnum22

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 07:30 AM

i say save, sell some steel, or borrow and go all the way for the M1A. you shouldn't settle.
Posted By: dl351

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 07:34 AM

Quote
i say save, sell some steel, or borrow and go all the way for the M1A. you shouldn't settle.

Yeah, settling will always leave you going after what you really want.
Posted By: MRpink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 07:35 AM

AR would be sweet, but for some reason, I don't have the big urge pick one up. I'd like a AR pistol for fun sometime though.

Here's a picture of somebody's saiga, pretty awesome imo.
[Linked Image from img.photobucket.com]
Posted By: Magnum22

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 07:35 AM

of course, if the S hits the F before he gathers the funds, he can hopefully still grab the saiga and plenty of ammo with what he's saved!
Posted By: MRpink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 07:38 AM

Quote
i say save, sell some steel, or borrow and go all the way for the M1A. you shouldn't settle.

Been thinking about selling my motorcycle, haven't been riding it much as I used too (plan to pick up a supermoto so I can do adventure rides).. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Magnum22

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 07:40 AM

can the bike fund both? i wouldn't sell my bike for a rifle.

knives, maybe one of my guitars if i really thought the law was gonna change.
Posted By: MRpink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 07:55 AM

Parting with the bike would be real hard. And no, the bike wouldn't fund both the super motto and rifle.

I think I'd be perfectly happy with Saiga 7.62x39 or .308 and another .22lr rifle. If I go that route, it wouldn't take me long at all to save up.
Posted By: Magnum22

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 08:01 AM

saiga's a great choice. if it has everything you want except for the quality of "being an m1a", then go for it.
Posted By: lazi

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 08:02 AM

I'm really leaning towards the saiga right now myself pink. If you fact in the cost of conversions and mods the SGL-21 for $550 is looking like a pretty good deal. I'm between converting One myself just to have something to do and just grabbing the green one which is pretty much what I would convert a stock saiga into.

The ak pistol posted in anoher thread is also pretty tempting right now...

http://www.k-var.com/shop/home.php?cat=353
Posted By: NB_GSXR

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 02:47 PM

I'd love a Saiga but we aren't allowed to own ANY AK variants up here...
Posted By: imaginefj

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 06:50 PM

Quote



12 gauge pump shotgun (Remington 870) Pack a punch for SHTF, can use slugs and buck shot.


Great choice, cheap too...

That and a Ruger 10/22

And a Glock 19 or 34
Posted By: dl351

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 08:27 PM

I started looking into the Saiga rifles, and for the price, they don't seem too bad. I haven't looked at any reviews yet, but maybe I will today after my exam. Imaginefj has a good idea with his recommended collection.

I did find that Mossberg actually sells a semi auto shotgun, the 930, for a retail of ~$550. Looks like it can be found for around $480, though. If I had my way, I'd have a nice handgun, a shotgun, a 10/22, and a bolt action rifle (at least a .30-06). The handgun would be the least important due to the lack of accurate range.
Posted By: MRpink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 09:48 PM

The Saiga 7.62x39 is $340 shipped and suppose to hold up to the super reliable AK standards.
Posted By: dl351

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/23/09 10:19 PM

Where's that from?

If I were you, I'd try to find a dealer that has them due to the additional fees beyond retail cost and shipping. You'll still have to pay the ffl fee. I'm not sure what that is, but dealers include that in the price. From a dealer, the background check fee and tax are all that are added, I think.
Posted By: Horta

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/24/09 07:35 AM

MrPink,

Check out http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php

This forum is a great source of information for those of us who have to deal with the California laws and restrictions.

I hope that it's ok to post the address of another forum.
Posted By: MRpink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/24/09 07:42 AM

dl351 - Atlantic Firearms, but that deal is only good if you are a calguns.net member.

horta - yeah, i've been there for over a year, but just recently been active, great forum with a ton of info.
Posted By: dl351

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/24/09 07:56 AM

Hello, Horta! What part of the bay are you from? I'm from the east bay.

MRPink, it looks like calguns.net gets free shipping, correct? Good luck with your decision! I mentioned earlier, but I got a .380 acp handgun and a Savage .17 hmr rifle over the past year or so. I still would like to get a .22 rifle, but I really want a higher powered centerfire, too! Like you said, so many choices and so little money! I shot a friends Stevens .30-06 over the weekend, and that was fun! A bit pricey to shoot at $1 per bullet for the cheapest stuff! Maybe a .223 would be cheaper to shoot? Well, I don't have money for a gun right now. Get whatever you'd like, and as long as you're happy with it, that's all that matters!

As a side note, did you fellow Californians sign that petition to repeal AB962? If you missed it in my past post, here's a link:

http://nramemberscouncils.com/petition/

I highly recommend that you guys sign that and pass it along to friends to sign!
Posted By: RN

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/24/09 04:35 PM

Quote
Quote
Some great suggestion here. Let me throw in my 2cents. For value I don't think you can beat a lever action and the 30-30 is a great cheap round and Marlins in that configuration are cheap. If you want something a little more versatile get a lever action in 357. A great companion to a revolver and they shoot 38s. Marlins would be my choice, they're a closed top reciever making scope mounting easier if you want, but they are a touch more expensive. Rossi makes a 16" barrel carbine that holds 8+1 sweetness in a small package, plus they don't get a second look. People say Levers hold less then most semis with magazines, but the nice thing is like shotguns you can "top-off" levers while you shoot.

Good points. It makes sense to have the ability to carry just one type of ammo in SHTF situations by matching rifle to handgun. Your example of the .357 is a good one.

That's what I've been wondering about too. It got me thinking about the Beretta Storm. Looks like a lot of $ for what it is, but the compatibility makes me like it. Could buy a mossberg and ruger for the cost of this though!
Posted By: lazi

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/25/09 09:42 AM

Awww man!!!!

I haven't been able to shake the idea of the .357 two piece combo...

I have been wanting a carbine in a handgun round but i was thinking 9mm - 45acp with hicaps. I've always liked the lever action look and he way they reload. I've already been wanting a FN Barracuda (if you happen across one) and it seems like a 1894 would make for a nice companion.

Looks like I have a .357 lever action on my short list now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Wiggitty

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/25/09 11:15 AM

i just like the look of the lever action. makes me think of john wayne.
Posted By: 87Burban

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/27/09 12:10 AM

Save your money. Get something decent. Just like buying knives you can buy 10 that are junk, or buy one or two good ones.

This means - dare I say it - not buying knives for a couple months - Arrrrrgh !.

It may even mean - gasp - selling a few. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Buy a good bulgarian AK from Arsenal out of Las Vegas or East Coast Firearms. Get some good circle 10 mags. Get a tactical single point sling. Get a couple cases of ammo.

"You never have trouble if you are prepared for it."
Teddy Roosevelt
Posted By: coyotebc

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/27/09 07:23 AM

I've got 4 lever actions and I love them all
marlin 1894 in 44 mag, great camp gun/deer gun
marlin 336 in 30/30 good deer gun
winchester 88 in 308 one of my favorite hunting set ups
winchester 94 timber in 450 marlin, heh heh plain fun and nastiness
Posted By: Kraz

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/27/09 10:58 PM

For a SHTF firearm, excluding the AR15 variants, I would want a lever action in 44mag. When I think of SHTF I think of light, short carbine, red dot sight, and < 100 yards targets. The 44mag has lots of hard hitting cartridges available, is easy to reload, and the ammo is readily available. Plus it makes a very good deer rifle for the woods.
Posted By: coyotebc

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 11/28/09 04:55 AM

yah the 44 marlin is a dream to carry and it will take down a deer to about 125 yards
Posted By: RN

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/02/09 03:26 AM

I keep thinking about this thread b/c I keep thinking of a rifle too.

I wish the M1 Carbine were still cheap. Shoulda bought one years ago. It does it for me, small, light, accurate enough at a decent distance and enough power for man or small beast. Can't see it for how much they run now though.

A Mossberg 500 would be pretty great buy too...

hmmmm?????
Posted By: MRpink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/02/09 04:36 AM

Quote


As a side note, did you fellow Californians sign that petition to repeal AB962? If you missed it in my past post, here's a link:

http://nramemberscouncils.com/petition/

I highly recommend that you guys sign that and pass it along to friends to sign!

yeah, and passed it around to my friends.
Posted By: MRpink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/02/09 04:37 AM

Quote

I wish the M1 Carbine were still cheap. Shoulda bought one years ago. It does it for me, small, light, accurate enough at a decent distance and enough power for man or small beast. Can't see it for how much they run now though.

+1 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: thunderbird

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/02/09 06:59 PM

Okay, I'm going to be the detractor on the M1A and the Mini-14 (and variants). I know I'm new around the 'yard, but I've a quite a bit of experience with both of these guns.

The M1A is a copy (sort of...) of the military's M-14. The problem is that the M1A has a cast receiver rather than a forged receiver. When you shoot a forged gun you hear 'ping', when you shoot a cast gun you hear 'thud'. After several thousand rounds, my M1A started experiencing FTFs (failure to fires). Examination revealed that the headspace had changed, BECAUSE THE RECEIVER WAS STRETCHING! Yikes! I had the barrel turned back .030 and sold that gun ASAP. That firearm design was never intended for use with anything other than a forged receiver.

Now most people will never put that many rounds through their guns, and never have any real problems with them. But if you're serious about a quality gun in that pattern, you need a forged receiver. There are only two options. 1) Buy a forged Norinco. They are not properly heat-treated from the factory and will also experience stretching. BUT, you can send the gun to Smith Enterprises, have it properly heat treated, and you'll have a good semi-auto M-14 for under $1000. 2) If you're really serious, then you need to get LRB Arms gun. They're forging brand new receivers right here in the good old USA, and they're TOP quality. Their M25 receiver even has an integral rail forged right in! Pricey at ~$3000, but what's your life worth? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I love mine, and believe it's one of the finest battle rifles that I own.

The mini-14 is another disaster, mostly suffering from poor workmanship and dismal barrels than anything else. I've put my borescope down several and they all look like the rifling was cut with a dull chisel. Absolutley the worst I've ever seen. Because it's a proprietary gun, you can't really get a quality aftermarket barrel (Hart, Douglas, etc), either. Even if the rifling was any good, the barrel is so thin that it makes any kind of accuracy impossible. Mine was a 4 MOA gun at BEST. What else? It was hell on brass, most of it being un-salvageable after going through that gun. Mounts and accessories are really tough to come by. Aftermarket mfgrs have largely ignored the mini in favor of the AR. I've got a lot of Rugers, and generally like 'em, but every mini I've handled was a real lemmon. I happily sold mine to an acquaintance that doesn't shoot much.

For a powerful battle rifle with a price that can't be beat, I'd go with a CMP Garand. Plentiful 'clips' and plentiful ammo will exist even after the SHTF. Parts are easy to come by. They were all well made by American machine shops. Any gunsmith worth a sh!t will be able to work on them in the unlikely it breaks. I love mine, and haven't ever gotten a bad one from CMP. The only bad thing is that it takes MONTHS to get your order, so be patient.

Jon
Posted By: Devil 505

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/03/09 02:31 AM

For SHTF purposes, there are 2 choices.

As Banan Clip says...12 GA in a short verson such as a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870...

[Linked Image from i56.photobucket.com]

Something like the AR or AK.

[Linked Image from i56.photobucket.com]


This is the Remington 700 5R MILSPEC in .308...my grail gun at the moment. That is, unless a 6 inch Python in brushed stainless pops up out of the weeds!

[Linked Image from i56.photobucket.com]
Posted By: Devil 505

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/03/09 02:36 AM

Quote
Okay, I'm going to be the detractor on the M1A and the Mini-14 (and variants). I know I'm new around the 'yard, but I've a quite a bit of experience with both of these guns.

The M1A is a copy (sort of...) of the military's M-14. The problem is that the M1A has a cast receiver rather than a forged receiver. When you shoot a forged gun you hear 'ping', when you shoot a cast gun you hear 'thud'. After several thousand rounds, my M1A started experiencing FTFs (failure to fires). Examination revealed that the headspace had changed, BECAUSE THE RECEIVER WAS STRETCHING! Yikes! I had the barrel turned back .030 and sold that gun ASAP. That firearm design was never intended for use with anything other than a forged receiver.

Now most people will never put that many rounds through their guns, and never have any real problems with them. But if you're serious about a quality gun in that pattern, you need a forged receiver. There are only two options. 1) Buy a forged Norinco. They are not properly heat-treated from the factory and will also experience stretching. BUT, you can send the gun to Smith Enterprises, have it properly heat treated, and you'll have a good semi-auto M-14 for under $1000. 2) If you're really serious, then you need to get LRB Arms gun. They're forging brand new receivers right here in the good old USA, and they're TOP quality. Their M25 receiver even has an integral rail forged right in! Pricey at ~$3000, but what's your life worth? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I love mine, and believe it's one of the finest battle rifles that I own.

The mini-14 is another disaster, mostly suffering from poor workmanship and dismal barrels than anything else. I've put my borescope down several and they all look like the rifling was cut with a dull chisel. Absolutley the worst I've ever seen. Because it's a proprietary gun, you can't really get a quality aftermarket barrel (Hart, Douglas, etc), either. Even if the rifling was any good, the barrel is so thin that it makes any kind of accuracy impossible. Mine was a 4 MOA gun at BEST. What else? It was hell on brass, most of it being un-salvageable after going through that gun. Mounts and accessories are really tough to come by. Aftermarket mfgrs have largely ignored the mini in favor of the AR. I've got a lot of Rugers, and generally like 'em, but every mini I've handled was a real lemmon. I happily sold mine to an acquaintance that doesn't shoot much.

For a powerful battle rifle with a price that can't be beat, I'd go with a CMP Garand. Plentiful 'clips' and plentiful ammo will exist even after the SHTF. Parts are easy to come by. They were all well made by American machine shops. Any gunsmith worth a sh!t will be able to work on them in the unlikely it breaks. I love mine, and haven't ever gotten a bad one from CMP. The only bad thing is that it takes MONTHS to get your order, so be patient.

Jon

The next time I'm go home(Atlanta), I plan to drive over to Anniston and visit CMP to see what they have. I'm a sucker for the M1.

Also, what I hear about CMP is that they go all out to make things right if something breaks.

Mark
Posted By: banana-clip

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/03/09 05:43 AM

I have a CMP M1 and it is really nice, you can't beat it for the money
Posted By: thunderbird

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/03/09 09:31 AM

CMP is great folks to deal with, expecially considering that they have a huge sales volume with not so many staffers. What I really like is that even within the grades they offer, you can still request something special and if they have it, they'll try to hook you up. For example, If you're trying to do a resto, and ask nicely for a gun with matching parts, they'll see what they have. For someone like me, I always ask for a 'shooter' and explain that I shoot a lot in competition. I may get an ugly gun, the the bores are usually extra nice and the headspace tight. Not many places that will do stuff like that for you anymore. Geez, the last time I special ordered a rifle through DPMS, the guy on the phone made it sound like I was trying to order moon rocks. DPMS may or may not see my business again, but CMP will undoubtably be sending more rifles my way in the future. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: RN

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/06/09 09:46 PM

That's great info! ya never know from one website/dealer to the next. They have some good prices and I can deal with a little wait time.
Posted By: banana-clip

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/07/09 01:21 AM

A CMP rifle is worth the wait.

If I had some extra money I'd order another M1 Garand.
Posted By: Sigfest

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/07/09 02:44 AM

And now that some more Greek is on the way,,it's a good time to buy..
Posted By: MRpink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/08/09 07:23 AM

I'll have to check out the CMP. I was looking at a Springfield Socom II M1A at the store, just beautiful but $2200.

After reading more about shotguns, I'm highly considering one now.


Quote
And now that some more Greek is on the way,,it's a good time to buy..

Sorry, could you explain?
Posted By: sportsnut

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/08/09 10:20 AM

Quote
I'll have to check out the CMP. I was looking at a Springfield Socom II M1A at the store, just beautiful but $2200.

After reading more about shotguns, I'm highly considering one now.


Quote
And now that some more Greek is on the way,,it's a good time to buy..

Sorry, could you explain?









He is talking about 30-06 ammo that CMP imports for the M1.
Posted By: damon

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/11/09 05:00 AM

Socom II looks neat, but balance is waaaay off IMO. the original socom is much better and less expensive (though still costly).
Posted By: RN

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/13/09 03:15 AM

I keep coming back to this thread cause I keep thinking about it. Reading the Rat forum on BF has me thinking too. My local gun store has a promo for both the ruger 10/22 and Mossberg 500...for straight survival...and less tactical zombie/invading hordes- those 2 would probably go far here in the North East!

Sometimes I can't make a decision!
Posted By: lazi

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/13/09 04:19 AM

I have both the 10/22 and the 500. I was having to think about all the on your mind and all I can say is that Im glad I own both ofthose models. There's so many options foe both of these guns that you can spend as much customizing them as it costs.

I paid $189 for my 10/22 and plan to get another and set it up a completly different way. I may even do one as a bullpup.
Posted By: Magnum22

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/13/09 06:23 AM

how do we feel about the nagant ?

the yugoslavian mauser?


not competitively, individually.
Posted By: MRpink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/19/09 08:31 AM

was ready to order my saiga 7.62x39 today, even called my FFL, but I found out in order for it to accept standard AK mags you have to drill a hole in the gun near the chamber and install something called a bullet guide. not sure how reliable that makes the rifle.

there is another method that involves no modification to the rifle, but you need to weld a feed ramp onto the mag and file off (grind off for me) a section of the mag catch.

need to do some research on if either of these will last in the long run.
Posted By: Devil 505

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/19/09 07:32 PM

Quote
was ready to order my saiga 7.62x39 today, even called my FFL, but I found out in order for it to accept standard AK mags you have to drill a hole in the gun near the chamber and install something called a bullet guide. not sure how reliable that makes the rifle.

there is another method that involves no modification to the rifle, but you need to weld a feed ramp onto the mag and file off (grind off for me) a section of the mag catch.

need to do some research on if either of these will last in the long run.

Is the conversion to have access to higher capacity mags?
Posted By: Magnum22

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/19/09 08:59 PM

i believe kickedintheballs explains this on youtube.
Posted By: lazi

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/19/09 09:44 PM

Coverts the saiga to a standard ak. Removes extra trigger parts and replaces them with a better trigger group as well and replaces the stock with a pistol grip and ak stock.

I'm hesitant to get into the saiga because of the changes that should be made. Stuff like feed ramp and a few more things and is rather spend a couple hundred more and just get the ak.

I understand why Pink is going with the saiga but the changes that could/should be made to it make it a tough call.
Posted By: Magnum22

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/20/09 12:46 AM

could just keep it stock. maybe.
Posted By: Steel Fan

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/20/09 05:16 AM

I notice you are now considering shotguns MrP...so I will chime in...after years of seeing things...a Shotgun would be my choice.

For close range and moving targets they are the best...slugs take you out to 100 yards with accuracy...in a SHTF situation they really work well. Targets are hit easier and stay down.

Ask Gravelface about people "not" going down after central mass hits with 5.56mm rounds...I have seen the same...I bet P/K has as well...

I carry a Shotgun as my back up weapon to my Sniper rifle...for use in close engagements or unplanned encounters. Sometimes I am limited to what I can get issued. If I had my choice or was working privately I would use a Bennelli M90 or I like the Saiga with seperate Mag feed.

Above all else though...only buy what you can practise with. Guns in cupboards are not much good. If a pistol range is round the corner and a shotgun range is the outer city limits...save your money on the shotgun and buy ammo to practise with the pistol.

A master of one weapon beats a collector of two...all the time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: SkunkHunter

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/20/09 08:53 AM

STEEL FAN: As is said, beware the one gun man, he probably knows how to use it!
Posted By: SkunkHunter

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/20/09 08:54 AM

At least out in the country that is.
Posted By: tagati

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/20/09 05:26 PM

Probably worth going back to the suggestions earlier in the thread and looking at a Norinco SKS or their MAK 90s. Even with the price inflation, I've seen decent condition SKSs going for around $300 at the gun shows (and with no paperwork). The Norinco MAKs are well made (I have both milled and stamped versions) and can be upgraded quite easily. Ironwood makes stocks that replace the sporter thumbhole stock with an original style stock.
Posted By: banana-clip

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/22/09 12:16 AM

Quote
how do we feel about the nagant ?

the yugoslavian mauser?


not competitively, individually.

I've owned 2 Nagants, M44 and M39 and they were both great shooting rifles. I paid about $80.00 for them a few years back and I really liked them, but traded them for a paratrooper SKS. They were accurate and the the ammo was really cheap back then.

I have a Yugo Mauser too and it is a nice shooting accurate rifle. A lot of guys use them for deer hunting around here. I'd pick the Mauser over the Nagants because the quality seems a little better, but you can't go wrong with either. For the money they can't be beat.
Posted By: MRpink

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/24/09 12:17 AM

Steel fan, thanks for the input, didn't know a slugs could reach 100 yards, I'm definitely getting a shotgun next, but right now I've decided on the Saiga 7.62x39. I have indoor and outdoor ranges for pistols, rifles, and shotguns all near my house.
Posted By: SkunkHunter

Re: Help me pick a rifle! - 12/24/09 08:57 AM

Pink: Research Sabot rounds for shotguns. And Yes, slugs CAN get out to 100yd.
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