The BOB (Bug Out Bag) - A Description

Since I joined the Yard I've often spoke of my interest in survival related topics (and even posted about it a few times). This has generated a lot of questions so I thought a BRIEF thread about what I think constitutes a good "Bug Out Bag" could help address many of these questions. A lot of this information is redundant from previous threads, because this is what I have found to work for me.

Before we get into the Bag Contents, I wanted to VERY QUICKLY discuss a couple of other issues....

The Bug Out Bag

Your survival plan MUST include the ability to quickly evacuate on foot. This should be a last resort, because your other gear / shelter / food / ammo is at your home. However, if something happens that makes staying put ("Bugging In") too dangerous then you need to be ready to move - on foot - if necessary.

You cannot overload your BOB to a point as to not allow confident HIGH SPEED movement over broken ground. As a result, I do not ever recommend a ruck load over 45 pounds. This 45 pounds is in addition to the clothes you are wearing, boots, firearms and ammo, and Belt Order.

Therefore, a larger "Three Day" ruck should be adequately sized. I prefer the Tactical Tailor "Three Day Plus".

The Belt Order

The Belt Order is designed as a "mini-survival kit". This is to be on you at ALL TIMES! You can leave your ruck in camp while you forage / set up traps / fish or hunt / use the bathroom / scout / etc as long as you do not take off the belt order! The contents of a survival belt order usually include:

1. USGI or Improved Civilian Equivalent Pistol Belt - this is NOT used to hold up your trousers. This is to be worn OVER your trouser belt.
2. Handgun Holster
3. Handgun Magazine Pouches
4. PSK (Personal Survival Kit) with:

4a) USGI Canteen Cup.

4b) 550 Cord (50 feet in ADDITION to the 100 feet in your BOB).

4c) Survival Straw.

4d) Lighter (this is in ADDITION to the lighter in your BOB).

4e) Firesteel.

4f) Tinder (this is in ADDITION to the tinder in your BOB).

4g) Knife Sharpener.

4h) Space Blanket.

4i) Bandanna.

4j) Compass.

4k) Water Purification Tablets (4 in addition to the tablets in your BOB).

5. Small & Medium Fixed Blade Knifes (more on this later).

6. Trauma Kit (more on this later).

Now that we've addressed those issues, lets move on to the BOB itself....

The Main Areas of Survival Concern include:

FIRE
SHELTER
WATER
FOOD
DEFENSE
FIRST AID

In a "non-shooting" survival situation the above list is placed in order of importance. "Exposure" (hypothermia) will kill you faster than dehydration. Dehydration will kill you faster than starvation, etc.

The survival adage is "3 is 2, 2 is 1, 1 is 0", and as such I believe in gear redundancy. Some gear can serve "multiple roles", but I've found those products to be gimmicky. A great example is the folding knives that also have a firesteel in them. The knives are of poor quality, and the firesteel is hard to access.

Regardless, survivalism is about the RULE OF THREE:

3 Minutes Without Air = Death
3 Hours Without Shelter = Death
3 Days Without Water = Death
3 Weeks Without Food = Death
3 Months Without Hope = Death

Therefore, lets take each category in turn. I'll list the products that I've thoroughly tested and recommend. EVERYTHING will have "triple redundancy":

FIRE

Fire is everything in a survival situation. It provides warm, comfort, and protection. It also enables you to boil water, cook food, harden wood for bushcraft tools, and signal for help.

1) LIGHTER!

A name brand butane lighter is the easiest way to start a fire. The "Bic" brand is what I use. However, these are not without fault. In cold weather they can fail, and if improperly stored - they will loose their butane.

2) FIRESTEEL!

A name brand firesteel is a critical piece of kit. I prefer the "Light My Fire" brand, because they last longer than others I've tried. These take a little practice to master, but once mastered can start a fire in a torrential down pour. My wife will attest to this, because it saved us in one about two years ago.

3) TINDER!

3a) TRIOXANE FUEL TABS!

The easiest tinder to use is Trioxane fuel tabs. These are available on the military surplus market, but are heavy and have a limited shelf life. I recommend carrying ONE tab for "last resort" fire building.

3b) PETROL COTTON!

Go to WalMart's photo development department and ask for a bag of free 35mm film canisters. Take the free canisters home, and fill them with cotton balls that you've rubbed in Vasoline. These will take an INSTANT spark from your firesteel, and will burn for a long time.

3c) CANDLE!

Wal-Mart sells "9 Hour Emergency Candles" in a three pack. I keep one of these in each of my kits, because once lit..they will burn for a very long time. They can also serve to provide small task lighting in camp (when a big fire is prohibited by light control, and your flashlight/headlamp batteries are dead).

3d) MAGNESIUM!

Everyone's seen the mag-bars. I do not recommend them. I do not recommend them. The shavings burn too fast and erratically.

4) BACK UP PLAN! You need a back up plan in case all else fails.

4a) MATCHES!

Buy a $1 waterproof match case at Wal-Mart and fill it with wooden "lifeboat strike anywhere" matches. These are my "last resort" firestarters. As such, I do not use them unless all else has failed.

SHELTER

If you haven't been hypothermic listen to me carefully. I have been hypothermic on a couple of occasions. Each time was a FAILURE on a survival training mission. If you think that you can "tough it out" by throwing a poncho on the ground, and getting in a quick nap - YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN. The ground will rob you of heat faster than water. If you get wet (and are in the wrong materials) you will die - this is even a possibility when its warm during the day. Being cold will also cause you to burn calories (always in short supply in an emergency).

Once hypothermia starts to set in you must react before your mental capabilities diminish. It is far better to prevent hypothermia than to recover from it.

1) PONCHO!

The USGI ripstop poncho is a critical piece of kit. If I had to take four items to survive off the land it would be: Bussekin Knife, LMF Firesteel, Canteen Cup, and the USGI Poncho. These are getting harder to find, but do not accept a civilian substitute. This poncho will be your basha, ground cover, rain protection, solar still, emergency liter (for transporting injured people), and more.

2) 550 CORD!

Except no substitute for SEVEN STRAND 550 parachute cord. You need at least 100 feet of it, and more is better. Learn how to tie knots too. This stuff is INVALUABLE in the field. It can be used for shelter making, bow string, trot line, fishing line (pull the strands out of the shell), first aid (splints, cravats, more), big game drag handle, snare making, and more.

3) MSS (Modular Sleep System)

3a) BIVY BAG! I've humped around tents in the past, and they are not for me. I want to be mobile so my max ruck load is around 45 pounds. (I am 5'10" tall and weigh about 180#. I'm athletically built, and fit). A tent weighs too much and offers too little in return. You must judge the weight-to-benefit of each piece of kit you're considering. As a result, I've come to LOVE the USGI "bivy bag". Its large enough for the biggest guy to fit in, is waterproof, and breathes.

3b1) SLEEPING BAGS!

The MSS system has two bags - one for cool weather and one for cold weather. When used togehter inside the bivy bag you're good for about 4-6 hours of sleep in -30F weather!

Some people live in climates that do not require the sleeping bags. For them I recommend the:

3b2) USGI PONCHO LINER / WOOBIE!

This liner can be worn under your poncho for "standing shelter" warm, or you can wrap up in it inside the bivy bag to create a fair weather sleeping bag.

4) BACK UP PLAN! You need a back up plan in case all else fails.

4a) GORETEX PARKA AND TROUSERS!

Buy the best you can afford. I like REAL USGI (not "authorized copies") due to the durability, but they are heavier than civilian products.

4b) POLYPROPYLENE & WOOL!

These will insulate even when wet. Cotton kills, and should be avoided.

WATER

The essence of life. Respect your ability to MAKE POTABLE DRINKING WATER! Getting diarrhea or vomiting because you drank contaminated water just makes your prospects of dying from dehydration greater.

1) CANTEEN CUP!

This stainless steel USGI jewel is about $5, and is invaluable. Avoid the older style with an "L Shaped" handle. Find the "wire butterfly handle model". This is your primary cooking and drinking vessle. It can be used to boil water, cook food, and even be a signal mirror if you polish a surface that won't be blackened by field use.

2) PUMP FILTER!

I do not recommend anything that requires batteries. I like name brand pump filters. The Katadyn Hiker is the base model. Its light and realitively cheap. I've used them for years. The "Rolls Royce" is the Katadyn Pocket. At $225 its not for the budget minded, but if properly cared for it will produce 13000 gallons of drinking water. I've had mine since 1999, and it is still 100% good to go.

3) WATER BOTTLE!

You must be able to carry water from place to place. Even if you're in an area with abundant water you need the ability to transport it in case the water is becomes too toxic in your current location. I like 32oz Nalgene Bottles (BPA Free preferred), because they don't leak and are nearly indestructible. They are also marked for measuring ounces which is handy when making frieze dried meals.

4) BACK UP PLAN! You need a back up plan in case all else fails.

4a) COLLAPSIBLE WATER BOTTLE OR HYDRATION BLADDER!

Either buy a 3L SOURCE brand bladder or a 1L Platypus brand collapsible bottle. DO NOT SETTLE FOR ANYTHING ELSE. I've used over 20 brands of products and these are the best.

4b) PURIFICATION TABLETS!

Do NOT buy a bottle of these at Wal-Mart. Buy the type that are in single serve blister packs. I prefer Katadyn. These tablets will kill everything in your water, but have limited shelf life and are heat sensitive.

4c) SURVIVAL STRAW!

At $10 delivered the AquaMira "Frontier Filter" is a no-brainer. Its good for around 20 gallons (maybe more if you pre-filter), and is tiny. At around 1 ounce you really can't afford to not have one in your kit.

NOTE: I prefer to keep the TABLETS and SURVIVAL STRAW in my PSK. This is a small survival kit that goes on my body instead of in my ruck. This allows me to leave the ruck in camp while I use the bathroom, forage for food / firewood, etc.

FOOD

You need calories and fat to stay warm, think clearly, and remain on the move.

1) LIFEBOAT RATIONS!

I've researched and tried them all. I like 3600 calorie MainStay brand, because they are the smallest for the calorie amount and taste decent. Their fat content is high too. YOU WANT FAT IN YOUR SURVIVAL DIET. All of the "I'm going to live off the land" types ignore the reality of RABBIT STARVATION. Game is too lean for constant human consumption so you have to supplement your diet with fat. We require fat to digest some foods and absorb some vitamins and minerals.

2) FRIEZE DRIED MEALS!

Mountain House the best I've tried overall. They are easy to make, and do not even require clean up. You just boil water in your canteen cup and then dump it in the pouch / stir / wait. Select products that sound good and try them before you settle on that particular meal. For example, the "Scrambbled Eggs" are AWFUL and should be avoided, but the "Chili Mac", "Lasagna" and "Spaghetti" are very good. Since these foods have no water you're saving weight.

3) OATMEAL!

Oatmeal packets are small and somewhat light. They are easy to make, and full of sugar which equals quick energy. I consider these "comfort" food, but they are a great way to start the survival morning.

4) BACK UP PLAN! You need a back up plan in case all else fails.

4a) FISHING KIT!

I like to keep a minimum of 110yds of 12-15# NAME BRAND fishing line, and an assortment of QUALITY hooks and lures in my kits. This allows me to tree fish, soda can fish, and trot line fish. If someone is interested, I'll post a complete list of my kit's contents.

4b) TRAPPING!

You must weigh the energy spent vs the energy gained for all hunting / gathering activities. This is why I prefer passive fishing and trapping to hunting. Your fishing line and 550 cord will serve you well in a trapping capacity. However, you need to learn how to make dead falls, figure 4's, etc. This takes PRACTICE! Don't just read a book or watch a show - get out there and make them!

4c) HUNTING!

A 22 rifle (preferred) or 22LR handgun (acceptable) is going to put a lot more meat in your pot than they guy that thinks he's going to continually bag "big game". Remember, EVERYONE else that isn't prepared is out there hunting for big game. You're chances of killing a deer/elk/caribou/moose/whatever are a lot slimmer than having a dangerous run-in with someone who didn't prepare.

4d) FORAGING!

The tools required for this aren't stored in your BOB - they're stored in your head. Learn edible plants in your AO TODAY. Get expert training because mistakenly identifying a plant can be fatal. Remember the SAS rule: 1) Touch it to your skin and watch for a rash. WAIT. 2) Touch it to your tongue and watch for a bad reaction. WAIT. 3) Nibble a little and spit it out. WAIT. 4) Eat a small amount and watch for a bad reaction. WAIT. 5) Enjoy your new found food source.

DEFENSE

1) KNIFE!

This is first on my list because its the most practical tool in your arsenal. Its not what I want to fight with, but it is DEFENSE AGAINST STARVATION / DEATH FROM EXPOSURE. I believe in a "trifecta of blades" meaning:

1a) SMALL FIXED BLADE!

The Scrap Yard "Scrapivore" or Swamp Rat "Rodent Solution" fit perfectly here. I just switched from a SW Warden to the Rodent Solution. This is your detail knife for caping game, cutting vegetables, trimming cordage, etc.

1b) MEDIUM FIXED BLADE!

The Scrap Yard "S5" or Swamp Rat "RMD" are perfect. This is your belt order / everything knife.

1c) CHOPPER!

The Scrap Yard "Dog Father" is my choice. This 10" ruck carried beast will make shelter, prepare firewood, and fend off beasts (if all else fails).

2) HANDGUN!

I'm a rifleman, but a handgun can be with you 24/7. Wear this on your belt order, and do not leave camp without it!

Select a common caliber like 38 Special, 9mm, 40SW, 45Acp. I prefer 9mm, because the military uses it - which means it will always be available (as long as there is a government).

I prefer Glock handguns, because they are indestructible and require very little maintenance.

3) RIFLE!

Again choose something common like a 22LR, 223/5.56x45mm or 308/7.62x51mm. The Russian 7.62x39mm is a great cartridge, but are you EVER going to find it after the balloon goes up? You might find a slimy supply clerk who is willing to barter something for an ammo can of military 5.56 or 7.62x51mm....

NOTE: Choose a proven platform and train with it. Buy THE VERY BEST QUALITY even if it means having less guns or having to wait to get it. I prefer AR15 (Bravo Company and Colt), AK101(Arsenal SLR-106FR), and the mighty FAL (DS Arms). Again, learn your weapon!

FIRST AID

Its amazing how fast something can get infected while in the bush! If you don't have First Aid Training - sign up at your local Red Cross this week. I currently have five certifications, and am always looking for something else to add.

Here are the basics of your TRAUMA KIT. This isn't an off the shelf boo-boo kit that goes in your ruck. This is on the outside of your ruck or preferrably on your belt order:

1) HEMOSTATIC!

You have to stop bleeding. Blood loss will result in shock and death. DO NOT BUY THE GRANULATED PRODUCTS! They are difficult to remove from a wound. I like QuikClot's "Combat Sponge".

2) TQ!

The tourniquet will save your life. Have at least one, but two is better. The best made is the C.A.T. (Combat Application Tourinuuet).

3) CHEST SEAL!

Buy an Asherman, and research how to use it. Do not buy a Hyfin.

4) CRAVAT!

This is a simple, but affective item to have.

5) IZZY BANDAGE!

Select one that is large enough to wrap around YOUR chest. The Isreali is a compression bandage.

6) H&H COMPRESSED GAUZE!

Two should suffice.

7) GAUZE!

I like 4x4's because they're big enough to get the job done. Keep them in ziplock bags (in their original packaging).

8) NASAL!

The naso-pharyngeal airway tube gets inserted through the nose and into the throat when a person can't breath through their mouth due to an injury. It can be used on throat injuries too. YOU NEED LUBE to get these inserted. Tape a packet of surgical lube to the Naso packaging.

9) DECOMP NEEDLE!

The ARS DN is a chest decompression needle. I am not trained on one so I do not include them. If your training includes them - add it. OTHERWISE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE ONE OF THESE!

10) SALINE!

Add a couple of ampules of saline for eye washes.

11) GLOVES!

You need to avoid blood borne pathogens!

12) CLEAN & PROTECT!

Packets of BURN CREAM, ALCOHOL PADS, IODINE PADS, etc. Anti-bacterial First Aid Cream is critical for field cuts.

13) MEDS!

I keep Cipro in my kit for heavy infections. There is also NSAIDs, Aspirin (heart attack), Antihistamines, Lopermide (anti-diarrhea), etc. If you require a prescription - keep some in your kit! I also keep a couple of sting relief pads.

FIRST AID NOTE OF CAUTION: I maintain Red Cross Community First Aid, First Aid, Blood Borne Pathogen, and advanced (outside vendor) trauma training. I also have a very good friend who is an EMT (14 years) and Professional Firefighter (11 years) who has helped my training. YOU MUST SEEK PROFESSIONAL TRAINING! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE MEDICAL DEVICES AND TECHNIQUES BEYOND YOUR LEVEL OF TRAINING!

MISCELLANEOUS GEAR

The following items are always included in my kits, but are hard to categorize:

1. LED Headlamp with Spare Batteries.

2. Map of AO.

3. Playing Cards - I prefer the type with survival or knot tying information on them.

4. Mosquito Head Net.

5. 3pc Mess Kit - I very much like the East German Aluminum Kit. Its a good "long term survival item". The Canteen Cup works too, but the Mess Kit makes life easier.

6. 2pc Mess Utensils - Have you tried carving a spoon? I have. Buy a QUALITY spoon and fork and add them to your kit. I typically find the Ti (titanium) products to be too small, but very much like the Guyot Designs "large utensil" set.

7. Trash Bags - these are shelter, food protection and storage, solar stills, water collectors, ponchos and more.

8. Ziplock Bags - these are good for water storage, food storage, keeping your small items dry, etc. Use the "Freezer Weight" bags.

9. Clothes - I keep the following clothing items in my rucks:

9a. Socks - At least two pair of wool for summer and two pair of heavy wool for winter. I also like to keep a pair of polypropylene liners in my BOB because it cuts down on blisters / friction and moves moisture away from the feet.

9b. Wool Hat - This is a MANDATORY item.

9c. Leather Work Gloves with Removable Wool Liners - I use USGI because they are inexpensive and durable.

9d. Polypro Shirt & Drawers - I prefer to keep Medium Weight in my ruck. These are good as added layers for evenings where you're not moving around.

9e. Jungle Hat - I keep a MultiCam camo "jungle hat" in my ruck. A hat that protects your neck and face is a critical item.

10. Weapons Cleaning Kit - Even if you have an AK you need to maintain your weapon.

10a. Lubricant - I like Slip2000 EWL for all of my lubricating needs. This is the stuff made famous during the BCM Filthy 14 torture.

10b. Cleaning Rod - A lot of people are moving toward flexible bore cleaners (Otis kits and Bore Snakes). However, these are WORTHLESS if you have a bore obstruction! Therefore, I highly recommend a USGI sectional cleaning rod with patch holder. You can use the rod to remove stuck cases, etc as well as to clean your bore.

10c. Patches - sized appropriately for your caliber.

10d. Bore Brush - sized appropriately for your caliber.

10e. Receiver Brush - USGI is the best, but a civilian toothbrush will also work. I prefer "child sized" if going to civy brush route.

10f. Chamber Brush - USGI M16 for 5.56 and USGI M14 for 7.62x51mm.

10g. Pipe Cleaners - AR15 users you do NOT need these! I've never used one!

10h. AR15 Bolt Assembly - I keep a spare bolt in my kit, because this is the primary failure item on the AR platform. (I actually keep one in my MagPul MOE pistol grip with a MagPul "bolt / pin" removable core. This enables me to keep a spare bolt and firing pin "on board" the weapon).

11. Communications - You might want to keep abreast of news after "it" happens. The ability to communicate with other survivors could also be of value.

11a. CRANK RADIO - We have an Eton emergency crank radio in our vehicle. Its rather large and slightly heavy so it does not go in our BOB. However, you might consider adding one to your vehicle.

11b. 2 WAY RADIOS - We have Midland 18.9 mile two-way radios clipped to the webbing on our BOB's (and I have a Silva Tech 4.0 Solar Charging Array to recharge the batteries). However, we've found ourselves wanting to shed ruck weight and these are typically the first to go. Nonetheless, the ability to communicate is very important. I HIGHLY recommend you research the topic before selecting a product. It isn't difficult to triangulate your location based upon your broadcasts, but GRS type devices don't broadcast a great distance. Regardless, security is a concern you should consider.



I wrote this from memory and probably forgot a few things, but hopefully this will help address people's concerns. I'm very thankful that some of you are taking your own security seriously, and thinking about building a quality survival kit!

EDITED for typing mistakes.

Nicely done Gary! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> Though this seems like a lot of items to acquire, if you pick up one or two each time you go shopping they will add up fast. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

YESSSS!!!

Control Print.

Thanks Arch!!!

Great write-up Arch. Thanks for sharing. I need to write some of this down and double check against my load out.

Thanks guys. I'm glad this is helpful.

Tom - this is a lot of stuff to buy. However, its important to remember you don't have to buy it all at once (as you suggested).

I always tell people to establish a "prep budget" wherein they put back "x dollars" (they have to decide what they can afford) per paycheck.

Use this money wisely by selecting gear that "rounds out" your BOB. For example, I imagine everyone reading this has a Scrap Yard knife...so I'd recommend picking up a LMF Army Swedish Fire Steel ($15) and USGI Canteen Cup ($5) first. After that perhaps a Katadyn Hiker Filter ($65) or USGI Poncho ($30) and 200 feet of 550 Cord ($12).

What's important:

1) You're doing SOMETHING.
2) You're creating rounded gear. Don't complete one area and have nothing in another.

Even when budget doesn't allow you can build on your knowledge and skills. Go out in the yard and build a fire with your firesteel. Practice setting traps. Whatever - just do something.

Gary, helpful ain't the word! About all I can do is pass on things that I find out about, like the link you and the one JJ gave me for the 4500 Cubic inches main battle pack.

Randy, we all have our part to play here. Don't downplay what you contribute. For example, this thread wouldn't have come about had it not been for you forwarding JJ's link.

Arch, I dig the write up, and agree on all the suggestions.

However, I would and do include forms of communication in my bag. "Why not use technology while it is still functioning?" is my mindset. Throw a cell phone in there or just ensure you bring your regualar one with you and a way to charge it like solar or hand crank device or even an adapter for standard AA batteries.

Also, an AM/FM/Weather radio. Radio stations are the last to stop working. I have been deployed to the epicenter within 24 hours of the earthquake in Indonesia and while the TV broadcast, landlines and every thing else was out, the radios kept broadcasting good information on weather and aid centers.

It also isn't a bad idea to have some small two-ways in your bag. If one person leaves camp, it is good to be able to get the "hey there's problem at camp" or "there's a ride here" message so you can hurry back.

Communication is key to knowing the situation.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle. G. I. Jooooeeee

Gary
Thank you for this post!
The Lord has touched my heart about this very subject just recently.
It has evolved into my personal quest to be "ready" for a disaster.
I just started learning as much as possible on this subject.
Things started out with immediate family members being taken care of and has grown into our Church as well.
We're just starting, but at least we are doing something.

You can go crazy trying to figure out what basics you really need. You covered that for me!

Then a 8.9 rocks Japan and reminds me of the importance.

Thanks again, Fred

I posted this before, but figured this is a good place to repost it. It is the SERE manual I got during a course in the Yanbaru Jungle. Packed with quality survival info.

[color:"red"] Do not scroll down on this link if you are offended by nude paintings. [/color]
http://jarheadjournalism.com/index.php?p=1_9_Paintings
The manual is at the top of the page and once open, a simple "save page as" in the file menu of your browse will make it yours.

JJ,

We have an Eton crank radio that is kept in our car. We also have a pair of battery powered Midland 18.9mi 2-Ways. The Silva Tech 4.0 solar battery charger is to run the 2-Ways and LED headlamps.

Due to weight constraints I find myself leaving the 2-Ways and Solar Charger at home most of the time.

The crank radio / ability to get news from the outside is a very good suggestion. However, its a more advanced / lower priority item for us.

Thanks for the input,
Gary

Fred,

I'm glad this thread is helpful. Hopefully we'll stay on topic and other Dogs will contribute good info like JJ has done.

I forgot the commo devices in the OP, and probably a couple of other items too. I have a very complete list of my gear written in Word.doc format but it isn't with me at this moment.

Good for your church - having a tight knit community of like minded people can make the difference between surviving "it" and perishing.

I will, however, caution you:

No matter how well meaning you are or how much you trust your congregation - people will change in an emergency. I highly recommend you keep some of the details of your supplies and planning a secret. This even applies to your children, because they will talk to their friends.

Finding a balance between your Christian charitable obligation and your obligation to your family is something you need to work out.

I just remembered something that I forgot....a weapons cleaning kit.

I'll amend the OP to include this.

JJ - I'm also adding commo to the list.

Cool. I really think the minimum communication a person should have in an emergency is a simple radio, and your Eton crank radio sounds perfect.

It is much more likely that when people have to bug out, they will be doing so in the event of a disaster be it man made or natural.

I would guess in the U.S. that 99.9 percent of the time the people who maybe trying to triangulate your position from your broadcast would be doing so to locate and rescue you.

In a "Red Dawn" situation, radio silence is a smart idea, but unlikely to happen here.

And at half a pound, I always bring my solarpanel with me, even if it is just to keep my iPod and flashlights running.

I just ordered three of the straws you suggested. I remember seeing them a long time ago and haven't thought about them again until now. I like the idea of something so small for redundant water cleaning. And, I found them for $8. I couldn't afford not to get a few.

$8.00! Ok, pm me if you would please.

IF for some strange reason I find them (Frontier survival straws I am guessing) for less than $8.00 would you like me to pick you up a few?

Now I gotta start looking for a SteriPen.

One more suggestion, but it maybe controversial.

Alcohol, tobacco and firearms

You already covered firearms, but it went with the trio, so I won't go into any detail again.

Alcohol and tobacco are both good for calming you down especially if you are already addicted to one or two of them.

Alcohol also has medicinal qualities and nicotine can help you stay awake if you are in a pinch.

And their third and possibly most important function, bartering. When money becomes obsolete, like in a prison, the most valuable currency is a pack of smokes. They are even good to give away when trying to get allies.

THAT is thinking outside the box! Good points by the way. But I am not really sure how beneficial VS weight/size they would be if you are bugging out. If you are going to "Hold up", EXCELLENT suggestion!

If you have any doubts, ask a smoker at the end of a 13 hour plane ride. He'll trade you his first born for a Camel non-filter.

And, if you are a smoker, it becomes even more important to keep you calm and clear headed.

Disclaimer, I am in no way saying anyone should smoke. I am just saying that if you do smoke, I don't think quitting the habit is the top priority when bugging out.

I know all about the "smoke" craving. I smoked for 25 years. I agree that they would be beneficial, but I was just talking about the benefits versus the weight and or what you have the capacity to carry. Granted a carton of cigarettes wouldn't be all that much weight wise. And you could get a metal flask to carry your favorite Calming medicine in. wouldn't take to much weight in a back pocket.

I have a nalgene flask in the side pocket of my bottle holder for water. It has a sleeve that doubles as a measuring cup.


P.S. I will resend PM

Don't know if I will get a bottle holder or not. but it would possibly be a good addition to the pack. Thanks for the resend.

Did you get it this time?

Yup I did and thank you. I wonder if the sidewinder would be more beneficial IF you got the room can handle the 1 pound weight. I been looking at it and found it for just a tad under 100.

That link I sent you has the sidewinder for $89

I would like to feel the build quality before I make any suggestions though. Combining electrical and mechanical seems like you are doubling the possibility of failure. But, it may be build like a tank.

I had thought of that, but HOPEFULLY the mechanicals ARE done right. Thanks again.

Plus, if you are going to carry something that big, you might as well go for a traditional filter. The whole point of the Steripen is to conserve weight and space, while giving up true filtration.

Yeah I had thought of that as well. Just trying to get around having to have two different devices. I figured you could always put a folded up bandana or coffee filters over the bottle mouth, plus it says it has a "Prefilter" not exactly sure how that works, probably a screw on cap.

For those interested in the steripen Sidewinder, here is a pic of the "Internals".

You can see the prefilter in this pic. It is the same as the one with the Sidewinder. It just screws on the mouth of the bottle and is only good to get the dirt out.


The good thing about the filter is that it prevents the untreated water from getting all over the mouth of the bottle. This is one of the criticisms of the steripen as it doesn't treat the water that dipping a bottle into a creek will get on you bottle.

I still suggest wiping the rim the best you can before treating the water inside.

I was wondering how they were addressing that. I just figured it would be better to use a separate bottle and pour the water into the one you were going to use the purifier on wheather it be the SteriPen or the sidewinder.

http://www.steripen.com/sidewinder-detailed-view

Haha, I forgot to put up the LINK! Then I hit Quote instead of edit! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

In the video they show the lady cleaning off the rim with a rag before screwing it into the unit.

Since bartering was brought up I thought I'd share a few decisions I've made about it:

1) I will never barter away ammunition. If the person is unprepared enough to not have any - then they might become desperate for something else and use the ammo against me to obtain the other item.

2) Food will likely be the item in greatest demand.

2a) Over the years I've read numerous reports about how the average home has far less than three days worth of food in it.

2b) Super Markets no longer have a "back room" meaning all of their stock is on the floor (not hidden from public view), and the food items get picked over EXTREMELY fast when something happens. I've witnessed this first hand. Issue A and B are tied together (obviously).

2c) The American population has steadily moved away from its agricultural base and toward an urban base. This has meant the loss of knowledge on how to "self sustain". Stated differently - people don't want to know how to obtain their own food and will not be able to sustain themselves once the Super Market is bare.

2d) Historic data shows that food becomes the most sought after commodity during a protracted "event". I often use WW2 Stalingrad as an example. This is a "family friendly" forum so I'll save the graphic details of the cannibalism I've read about.

2e) Hunger / the desire to eat is a natural / biological function and will over ride most other concerns. If you don't understand - go 48 hours without eating anything and just drinking water. I did this for 72 hours, and by the end of it I couldn't think of muhc other than food.

2f) Lastly, once a malnourished person enters Ketosis they will start suffering from dizziness, fatigue, nausea, diarrhea, etc. I've never smoked, but have been told this is much worse than nicotine withdraw.

3) Properly stored seeds are an INVALUABLE long term disaster barter item. If people survive long enough to think about food production - then renewable food will be of top concern to them. Additionally, seeds are light and take no space. We have seed packets sealed in "FoodSaver" bags that are 100% air and water tight.

I have never smoked and will never smoke so its easy for me to say this....

Survivalism is a lifestyle. A bag full of stuff really isn't going to do you a lot of good if:

1) You don't know how to effectively use the contents.

2) You are so incredibly out of shape as to not be able to carry the bag say 5 miles a day over broken ground.

3) You are so addicted to XYZ as to allow those products to drive you to behave differently than if you weren't addicted to those products. THIS CAN APPLY TO MUCH MORE THAN SMOKING - like "sweets" (some people need chocolate all the time), etc.

I'm not trying to be overly judgmental, but my philosophy on this matter can be summarized thusly:

If you are worried enough about your survival that you're taking the time to prepare GEAR then why not prepare your MIND and BODY too? (Hence my early comment that "survivalism is a lifestyle"). When the military issues a person gear on the first day of basic training - did it make that person a marine or soldier? No, it was the next 8-12 weeks of physical and mental conditioning that STARTED the person toward becoming one.

I sincerely wasn't trying to upset people here, but the idea of preparing to temporarily feed an addiction seems like a poor second choice to just breaking the addiction before you need to temporarily feed it. By the way, what happens after YOUR addiction supplies run out?

Arch, just last night after I printed your post and was reading about Oatmeal it hit me. Why not open up two packs (for 2 people) of instant oatmal, seal it up in using a foodsaver. You could make the packets much smaller and last a very long time. Same with a lot of other items. but the Mtn. house food! 25 years of shelf life! To quote Will Smith (sort of) gotta get me some of these!

Arch, your addiction post is the way I feel. But I DO see some merrit in JJ's comments. I personally don't think that I would suscribe to them IF I/we needed to bug out, but I can see that it MIGHT have some potential for those that would barter and then just move on with their goods. Now If "They" found out about your stash and wanted it, you may not be able to fend them of. THAT is what I would be concerned about. People talk, no way to stop it, VERBAL accidents happen.

I guess my greatest addiction now is living, and I will do ALMOST anything to feed that need.

I guess I should say my greatest addiction BESIDES needing my diabetes meds and blood pressure. BUT then again, if IT happened those problems could go away or be taken care of with minimal food to to get to, that is if We couldn't "Take it with us". We have several cases of corn, peas, beans of differents sorts, fruit... you get the idea. We also have a couple cases of bottled water just because we were given some. needless to say the back of the truck IF WE COULD DRIVE wouldn't be empty. And food wouldn't be the only thing back there. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes we could (do?)get swept up in an idea, Bug Out Bag, and ignore the preparations that we need to do and keep at home for times that emergency stores may be required but it IS NOT necessary to actually leave.

I read a book as a child (and several times as an adult) called Alas Babylon. they used a term I like. IRON RATIONS! Think of your BOB as your iron rations to get you to safety, in the event leaving IS NECESSARY, and your "Home stores" as your "just in case" items.

JJ made a comment about the type of situations that a person might face in the United States. He broke them into "natural disasters" and "Red Dawn", but this is really a severe over simplification.

I break "emergencies" into three categories:

NATURAL Disasters
MAN-MADE Disasters
SOCIAL ECONOMICAL POLITICAL Disasters

NATURAL

Natural disasters include:

* Tornadoes
* Earthquakes
* Hurricanes
* Volcanoes
* Tsunamis
* Forest Fires (although these are often Man-Made too)
* Insert YOUR Issues Here That Affect YOUR Area of Operation

MAN-MADE

Man-Made disaster include:

* Train-Derailments (with hazardous cargo like chemicals, gases, etc)
* Nuclear Plant Melt Down
* Industrial Accidents (e.g. we have a local plant that produces a type of plastic which requires PHOSGENE in the manufacturing process. This is MUSTARD GAS! Fire Departments as far as 100 miles away have been notified that if this plant burns people will have to be evacuated)
* Water Source Contamination
* Insert YOUR concerns here based upon YOUR AO.

SOCIAL ECONOMIC POLITICAL

These are equally likely in our current world environment. Unemployment is high, the government continues to grow its tyranical behavior, the national debt is spiraling out of control, rioting / civil disobeyidence is increasing etc.

SEP issues are those that are INTENTIONALLY MALICIOUS in nature. Natural and Man-Made disasters are accidents.

Examples include:

* Dirty Bomb
* Rioting
* Looting (post Natural, Man-Made, or SEP)
* Civil War
* Austerity Based Measures (starving people will behave differently)
* Police State Actions (the Government is rounding up gun owners or whatever)
* Forced Inoculations
* Microchip Implanting
* Banning Any of the Bill of Rights (freedom of speech, religion, whatever)
* Insert a plethora of other issues here.

The following is the SURVIVALIST LOGIC CHART that I developed and recommend:

STEP ONE - SELF INVENTORY

Conduct a personal evaluation - Be honest with yourself and determine if you need to loose weight, build strength, adjust your sleeping habits, seek better employment, increase your knowledge base, spend less time on recreational pursuits at the cost of self-improvement, stop smoking, whatever.

STEP TWO - ENVIRONMENTAL ANALYSIS

Conduct a detailed study of your environment - with the goal of identifying the perils you AND YOUR COMMUNITY FACE.

NOTE: I capitalized the community component, because even if you are a rural dweller and out of the "suck zone" - you will be affected by the community nearest to which you live.

Develop a list of issues that might affect you. For example, are there any railroad tracks within 10 miles? Are they up or down wind from the typical prevailing wind direction? Do you live within 100 miles of a Chemical or Biological plant or repository? Is there a military base within 100-200 miles? Is that base a small installation or does it have strategic and/or tactical value to an enemy?

STEP THREE - DEVELOP A PLAN OF ACTION

Once you've identified the perils you face - develop a set of responses to those disaters. For example, if a train derails our first option is...X, but if that fails we can Y, and as a last resort we need to Z.

This step also includes PERSONAL GOALS like losing weight, walking to get in better shape, learning a new trade or skill, etc.

STEP FOUR - DEVELOP A LIST OF GEAR NEEDED

Now that you've evaluated yourself and your environment and developed a POA you need to develop a list of gear to help you achieve these.

I break this down into three categories: Bug-In, Vehicular Bug-Out, and Foot Bug-Out.

Obviously "bugging in" is the best option. You have the comfort and security of your home plus a vast amount of space to store "survival stuff" (food, ammo, water, blankets, cooking supplies, medical supplies, etc).

A V-BO is much preferred to to a F-BO because you have a rolling shelter that can carry a lot more gear than your back.

The F-BO is a last resort. YOU DO NOT WANT TO BECOME A REFUGEE IF YOU CAN AVOID IT. Bugging out on foot because of a Natural or Man-Made disaster can land you in a SEP situation (Katrina is an example - the government was disarming people - which could have turned ugly).

ETA - I'm adding the following images to prevent people from thinking that my SEP issues are unfounded (or that I'm a conspiracy nut). We need to be intellectually honest and acknowledge that America isn't headed in a good direction:




Based upon the above FBI flyer I'm a terrorist because: A) I would defend the Constitution, B) I made references to it in this post.

The following is the last page of the 2009 MIAC Report. This report identifies people who support Anti-Abortion, Gun Rights, Ron Paul or who just have a HISTORIC Don't Tread On Me sticker as "militia":



Read the report for yourself...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13290698/The-M...Report-20Feb09-

Randy,

I like the thought you're putting into this. I see a pattern developing and this is a GOOD THING!

You've started to conduct the "personal inventory" and "what do I do about it" steps simultaneously as well.

These are good things!

Regarding alcohol and tobacco - survival is about the basic. Its rough, dirty and miserable. Comfort items really have no place. The only comfort item I keep in my ruck is a pack of cards...BUT...each card has a "knot tying" lesson on it. My wife's BOB has a deck with survival information on each.

I only allowed the cards because of their true-survival value.

If I had room (space and/or weight) I'd add more ammo or more food. Period.

I've seen those cards but didn't really know if they were actually worth the cost. I always thought of them more of a gimic. And about SELF MADE ADDICTIONS, it's like now. Folks that do not have a job still smoke from 30-80 dollars worth of cigarettes a week! Makes NO sense to me. If you don't have enough money to pay your bills, you start cutting out things that are not necessary for your continued existance. Like Patty and I. It is obvious to anyone here that can read and count I spend a lot of time here. IF money were that hard for us, we would cut out our internet in a heartbeat, but it wouldn't be the first casualty. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I only started SERIOUSLY (I guess0 started thinking about surviving a situation within the past year. But with the addition of your bob post an the quake in Japan I have REALLY ramped up my thinking.

We live basically ON the New Madrid fault. We live according to Mapquest, 61 miles of New Madrid Missouri and about 20 miles West. Picked a real good place to grow up huh.

Well Randy, you've touched upon something I don't like to talk about because people might get offended, but so what....

We are a "Welfare State" now. How many MILLIONS of Americans depend on the Government for income and food? Here is your answer: 1 out of 6 Americans depend on the Government for assistance.

What happens when that gravy train stops? Will 17% of our population become gentle and docile and start providing for themselves in a constructive manner...or...will they become violent?

Did you know that FORTY MILLION of our population get food stamps?

http://www.businessinsider.com/one-in-six-americans-now-receives-government-aid-2010-8

This is why I think it is of EXTREME IMPORTANCE for people to be prepared for Social Economic and Political disasters.

Think about 40,000,000 of 300,000,000 who can't even feed themselves NOT getting their hand-out.

What happens then?

This is why I get irritated with Red Dawn comments. This is a gross over simplification of our dire circumstances. JJ, please don't think I'm picking on you. My sensitivity to that comment comes from YEARS of online attempts at educating people.

I had a copy of that report at one time, INTERESTING reading to say the least. hey Arch, don't feel alone I have refused to go into a business before because they had a sign on the door that said NO KNIVES! And no, it was a farm type store if you can believe that. The employees there didn't ALL subscribe to that mindset but it was official company policy. I don't go there any more.

Well my relief is here, I am gonna brief her and I am outta here!

I am a terrorist because I believe in the constitution of the United States and that the present Government is NOT concerned for the welfare of "The People"!

Have a nice day!

Thanks for your contribution, Randy.

In the interest of full disclosure I am neither a democrat nor republican. This will probably shock a lot of you who had me pegged as a Republican.

I have never once voted for a democrat, and faithfully voted for republicans until the last presidential election. The GOP's selection of McCain was the proverbial "final straw" for me.

I've been involved in politics for a long time (active involvement with campaigns, political action organizations, etc), and have watched the following truth expand over the past 20 years:

DEMOCRATS - You are the pawns of the Power Elite. They buy your votes with Government Programs (wealth redistribution), but they do not really care about you. They have an agenda, and you - like a pawn in chess - are just a throw away measure for them to achieve those goals.

REPUBLICANS - You've been hoodwinked. You've bought into the idea that questioning so-called Conservatives (when they pass legislation or write Executive Orders that rapes the Constitution) is "unpatriotic". You wrap yourself in the flag that your party no longer cares about. Statism and Facism is the new Republican way. Don't believe me? Read the John Warner Defense Authorization Act or the Patriot Act...both signed into law by a Republican President.

Republicans you have also bought into the idea of "giving up freedom for the promise of protection". Well, what did our Founding Fathers have to say about this?

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin 1775

“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy” - James Madison (Father of the U.S. Constitution & 4th President)

The second quote is of amazing importance, because just last night I heard more talk of "Terrorism" on Foxnews. Are we to really believe that the greatest nation to ever exist has to strip rights (violate the Constitution via non-warranted wire taps, hold people without due process, search homes, etc) from ITS CITIZENS to protect them from a handful of cave dwellers on the other side of the world? Seriously?

Don't allow yourself to be sold on the idea that the American people cannot choose a good course of self determination. We did very well until 1913.

In case you're wondering what my party affiliation is...I don't have one. I'm a self declared "Liberty Loving Constitutionalist who doesn't feel that party affiliation benefits We The People". I won't vote for anyone that violates the Constitution. I stand in their way.

I didn't think you were, and I understand you reason for being sensitive to it. I am in no way saying we shouldn't prepare for the worst. I am prepared.

I have personally been at ground zero of five natural disasters and some man made ones if you count war. Hell, I was three years old in the middle of Iran's revolution in 79. I have also been through many survival courses to include multiple SERE courses, tracking, hunting, foraging, and urban, jungle and desert warfare training. So, I know my experience with disasters and knowledge of it isn't worthless.

Every disaster I have been to seemed to play out fairly the same way. For the first week or so, people team up and helped each other despite their differences. Within a few weeks supplies start dwindling. People start hiding things from each other. Within a month, theft, rape and other forms of desperation and evil start to appear including pandemics like tetanus (tetanus isn't something we have to worry about in the U.S. since even the poor get vaccinated, but we would see some form of pandemic if our infrastructure shut down for a month or more).

My suggestion about tobacco and alcohol is for the immediate week or so after the SHTF. If I only had my bag with me, I may not have been able to bring much more than a week or so of food. I am likely to run into someone during that time who has food and is hurting for a smoke in the next town where his house still stands. I have seen this done to survive with my own two eyes.

I watched a couple of boys hiding near our base camp in the Philippines. They had a little tarp in some bushes. We decided to go check them out for security reasons. They were eating from a couple cans of food when we got there. They offered us some food. We declined and asked them why they were there. They said being near the U.S. military is the safest place for them to hide their cigarettes. Neither smoked, and neither had more than a few cans of food and some fruit at a time, but they both had fresh food every day until we left three months later and the country had started to turn the corner to recovery.

That said, I know that is an extreme example, but I am not saying stash an entire box full of cartons of cigarettes. Hell, you don't even have to stash cigarettes at all. Seeds would work fine in the long haul. Candy may work fine in the immediate time after the "event."

My point is, it is always good to have something you don't mind trading away (cigarettes in my case) for something you may need to refilling on.

I do admit though. I have a flask of Jack in my bag for me. Moral is a valuable commodity and a little luxury like a few swigs off a bottle of Jack can go a long way in getting it for you if you are in the middle of a $%#@ storm. This too, I've seen and experienced with my own eyes.

P.S. I was in the Philippines for a tsunami/landslide about five years ago.

I just read my post and want to make sure you don't think of it as an attack, Arch. I know you have your views and I have mine, but I don't want to offend you and some of my writing sounded a little smartypants on the read over.

JJ - I absolutely didn't take your comments as an attack. You were just establishing your position/views and bona fides.

We're 100% cool.

This is the type of open discussion needed for this topic! I sincerely appreciate your contribution.

Our backgrounds actually sound similar. Until age 9 I lived all over the world. Three of those years were spent inside East Germany. I have very detailed recollections of passing through CP Charlie. I too have disaster experience. As a licensed commercial architect I've been tapped several times for recovery efforts and post-event evaluations.

You're welcome to contribute anything you want herein. Our slightly differing views will just help readers expand their thought horizon - which is the whole purpose of this thread!

Forgot to add...

I was hoping you didn't take my tone (earlier posts) as an attack on your contribution.

Its hard to express "emotion" or the "lack of emotion" online. This can lead to tension on less mature forums. Its good to have a place were ADULTS can discuss matters without getting butt-hurt.

Long Live The Yard!

For those who don't know...

CP Charlie was the gate between East and West Berlin. We lived in the "American Sector", but very frequently went into the GDR Sector thru CP Charlie.

JJ, good point. I know I would go nuts without my Copenehagen, it allows me to cope to say. There is value for a BOB, and it is for me. To have enough for true bartering the A & T would be in larger amounts and better stored in a Bug In place.

Great post!! [color:"#666666"] (although the politics can go to the wayside) [/color]

Not really much to add...but with regards to preparedness, I think it's important to also talk about physical conditioning. Most American's won't be able to run / move as needed to properly "avoid" conflict, or to escape a disaster area of influence. As Arch mentioned, getting out and "doing it" can be considered valuable input for all points discussed above....be it bushcraft, hunting w/ a 22, survival training, mental / physical conditioning, etc etc.

Well I just read the thread and have to say there is a lot of good information here. For me, I did not grow up all over the world or the US. I have lived in the same area my whole life, a place that my Papa grew up in too. When I was younger my Papa, who was 11 years old when the Depression hit, passed a lot of things on to me as far as surviving in hard times. I hope we never see times like what the old generation did but I feel that we are on a road to repeat it, if not live a worse version.

Arch, I saw the pamphlet that you posted about supporting the Constitution, and I do believe in the ideas of our founding fathers so I guess I am "bad". It is unfortunate that roughly a 5th of our population is getting assistance and not contributing. What a shame.

Agreed. The most important factors in this entire equation are mind and body. Train them both or perish

Jeff, we all have varying backgrounds but can learn from each other as a result.

We moved ALL THE TIME when I was young. This situation certainly affected the development of my personality. For example, as a young man, changing schools four times in two years along with never have a "sense of place" unquestionably created a necessity for me to be assertive.

By the time I was 5 years old we had lived in Indiana, Kansas, Alabama, Virginia and Maryland. Then we went overseas.

I understand Ish's dislike for the political commentary, but I respectfully assert that a conversation about Survival CANNOT be divorced from our current political climate. Politics (more often than not in the course of human history) has caused the very catastrophes we'll be required to survive.

I wholeheartedly agree with the need for conditioning - physical, mental and spiritual.

When the body fails, the mind takes over.

When the mind fails, the soul takes over.

Just my .02 worth.

I agree. I believe (from my DEEP research on the topic) that the next round of difficult times might be far worse than anything we've experienced to date.

Be prepared.

The following pictures are of two different PSK / Belt Orders I've experimented with.


NON-TRADITIONAL

The PSK (Personal Survival Kit) of this belt order is contained inside the Maxpedition Octa Waistpack. The balance of the gear is attached to the exterior of the Octa.







TRADITIONAL

The PSK is contained in a pouch that attaches to a pistol belt.







The belt itself is a Blackhawk Improved Pistol Belt with various other items attached to it (including the PSK).






[color:"red"][b]NOTE: These are OLD pictures. The content of our PSK's has changed. Some items were tested and rejected (like bottled water purification tablets), and other items were added. These are for "generic illustration purposes only". [/color]

Good to see you put a couple lighters in there instead of just a fire steel. I had a friend (he's a Recon Marine) who made fun of me for using a lighter on our last camping trip. For background, his gamertag on XBox Live is "Survivor-Dan."

My father was Recon (from the Vietnam era) and carried a lighter everywhere he went.

Please read the fire section of my OP <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/loopy.gif" alt="" />

Don't get me wrong...I don't "dislike" anything. I prefer it, actually.

My comment was merely to suggest that you can still get a point across without the possibility of offending anyone. Discussion of politics often brings up sensitive issues and can solidify walls between friends. The point is...it doesn't matter who's correct...Darwin will win out eventually <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ish, instead of Darwin maybe you should support Murphy on this one...(as to not offend anyone by referencing an anti-religious figure) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Murphy's Law

"Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong"

See the inherent problem with trying to be politically correct?

We can't express our opinions without spending more time proofing the content for something that "might offend" someone than we spend developing the concept itself.

As long as we're all respectful there shouldn't be a problem. Don't approach this topic in hopes of "converting" a member to XYZ. Approach the topic in hopes of "educating" the person to make their own informed decision.

Ish, regarding politics being divisive...that is the problem in America today!

We all (myself included) buy into the "left right paradigm" wherein we spend too much time fighting each other instead of identifying the real problems.

This ties into my above comment about spending more time editing content for "pc offensive material" than developing the concept itself.

As long as we are preoccupied with making gray/neutral statements or fighting over black/white statements...we'll never be able to identify / defeat the real problems facing us.

Please don't interpret the above statement to mean that we need "bi-partisanship".

THIS IS NOT MY INTENTION

What I mean by the "false left right paradigm" is....

A great deal of our Members of Congress (from BOTH parties) really share the same goals or interests. The divisiveness is largely an act to keep the population at odds (instead of uniting and electing officials that actually do our bidding).

Here, this is from Wikipedia....

[color:"red"]"The False Left-Right Paradigm theorizes that opposing political groups use their influence over media to dramatize party warfare distraction, in grand performances of bureaucratic rivalry meant to propagandize and divide the populace. Divisive issues are fed through media outlets to divert attention away from the ruling class's hidden agendas. By drawing attention to differences between two political systems, ideologies, races, and classes, the political groups obscure and divide unity among the masses. The tactic creates confusion and frustration among the population, enabling the global elite to increase and consolidate their wealth and power through maintaining an illusion of a two-party system of checks and balances." [/color]

Not to sound paranoid but we have been squirreling away MRE's,Water,Ammo,
Packaged fat bars,medical
supplies,prescriptions "percocet,penicillin,aspirin,etc."Specific clothing and shelter items.
And many other items already listed. They are all stored in the basement in tidy bundles ready to be scooped up and walk out the door with.

Living in Wisconsin and not within a A-Bomb burst range we should have time to grab our s*it and git!
We just feel it's prudent do be prepared. September 11th 2001 was our wake up call. We rotate out items of medicine and food to keep them fresh as well
as keeping antibiotic soaps,wipes and such viable.
Not hoping,but being prepared for any special get and go order.

Peace.

There is nothing paranoid about being prepared to take care of yourself.

Who else is going to do it?

Peace - good for you!

Honstely, you're picking at nits. All types of communication are interpretable...the internet is no different than any written communication protocol. Consider law, including our costitution (which is a written form of communication)...it remains interpretable and that's why we have a Court system.

I'm just suggesting let Murphy, or any other law, rule the day. Prepare to your content, Protect your own. You won't know if it's enough until SHTF. If others want to look the other way, you can't change that. Perhaps I've just become cynical over the years, but my time is best spent socializing with like minded crowds (ie: the Yard).

I'll digress....this is a great thread for preparation, and I appreciate it for that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I avoid public political and religious debates at all cost.

I have voiced my beliefs on both here once and it was done while tip toeing over egg shells.

Here's my first level gear:

SOTECH SHHPPB w/ B-11 & SS4. I have additional pouches not shown...this is my hunting config. Can't really see my SOTECH BOB, but it's underneath...small shoulder bearing bag, can be attached to the PPB if needed for carry. I like this belt, as it allows the shoulders to carry some of the burden and integrates a hydration pack into it all.

Everyone trains their fingers on the forums and their wallets buying gear. There are very few who train with their gear. Fewer yet who will ever hit the gym.

But, it is easy for me to judge... I like going to the gym, I spend alot of time online...and have a limited budget for gear!

For the longest time my sig line read "Knowing Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior is the only long term survival preparation."

Just my .02 worth.

Another great thread! Thanks,

I agree with Arch and JJ and Ishi and.... We DO sometimes spend to much time trying to MAKE SURE we do not offend anyone here. This is good, not wanting to offend anyone. But I think it IS always our intention to NOT to want to offend anyone and those of us that post here know that. But it is still nice, at least at times, to see us make sure we let each other know, we do not mean to offend ANYONE. We are each individuals. We each have our opinions, sometimes they agree, sometimes they clash. Such is the way of life. When they clash it does not mean we are trying to or should be offended, just that we are each individuals THAT WANT TO WORK TOGETHER here for our mutual benefit.

I for one am VERY thankful for this Thread. And I want to personally thank everyone that has posted here on this most important subject.

Has anyone else read the "Out of the Ashes" series of books. I would like to have a cave like JTR has, but I don't live in Georgia! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Also, not sure if I remember reading this or not earlier in this thread, but I think it is important to mention again even if it was.

Your bag should be customized to your AO. For example, if you live in the California forest region, you may consider putting a fire blanket or other fire emergency equipment/treatments. If you live in Las Vegas, you may want to carry more water and learn how to extract water from the ground or plants with green house/condensation techniques and carry needed materials.

When in a water poor area, remember to check the sodium content of your rations. You want low sodium if you know water will be scarce. U.S. MREs are very high in sodium and are designed that way on purpose. The MREs are designed to be very high in calories (about 1200 a meal) to keep us fueled while under constant manual labor. They are high in sodium so we have plenty of electrolytes while constantly hydrating. If you do not have the luxury of constantly hydrating, MREs are the wrong choice of food (they make you need more water). Go with something like the Mainstay rations Arch suggested or Datrex. Both are designed to be low in sodium since they are emergency rations not MREs. Yes, MREs are better tasting and have a larger variety, but they also are not as calorie dense and therefor take up more room and weigh more per calorie.

There is no way you can carry a reasonably weighted bag and be prepared for every environment on Earth, so research your area and what types of disasters are inherent there and prepare accordingly.

Holy Smoke, found a 200oz water bladder/carrier, for about half what I payed for my 3 day pack. If you are interested shoot me a pm and I will send you the link.

Great points JJ. I never knew that about MRE's. I knew they were high calorie but didn't know about the sodium. How about the Mountain House freeze dried meals Arch mentioned.

Good question!

I just did a little research, and WOW! They pack the meals with sodium. I looked at a the Mountain House Chicken ala King first and it has 1120mg (insane amount) of sodium for 310 calories. As a reference, an entire MRE has an average of 1800mg of sodium for an average 1200 calories. That comes to a little more than 3mg of sodium to a single calorie in the Mountain House chicken ala king, and a little more than 1mg of sodium to 1 calorie in an MRE. Both MREs and Mountain House meals vary depending on the menu, but those are good indicators these are NOT good meals when water is scarce, especially not the Mountain House ones.

Mainstay rations bars are 23mg of sodium to 400 calories. That comes to 0.04mg of sodium to 1 calorie. Datrex rations have 0.75mg of sodium to 200 calories. Too small to bother with a ratio.

You must consider the amount of exertion you will be doing. If you are working hard and sweating, high sodium is a good thing. If you are waiting it out in an arid environment and not really doing much heavy physical activity with minimum water, sodium can kill you.

You can prepare for both by packing a sports drink powder high in potassium and sodium with your Mainstay or Datrex.

I pack the Gatorade G3 Recovery Powder. You can get it in individual 1 ounce packets single serving packets. They have a good amount of protein, carbs and electrolytes.

Just checked my Mountain House beef stew and chili mac with beef.
Beef stew=210 cal per serving and 850mg sodium. 2.5 servings per pack.
Chili mac=290 cal per serving and 810mg sodium. 2.0 servings per pack.

Boy we're getting some good stuff now! Gatorade G3 recovery powder. Gotta put that on Arch's list I printed out with an extra sheet for more stuff!

With those amounts of sodium, you would consume daily about 8500mg of sodium assuming you consume 2100 calories in a day.

Daily suggested allowance for sodium is 2400mg.

Better be drinking lots of water and sweating a lot.

Well I guess it's back to square one half!

On to more important matters (besides food). WATER!

Ok. I figure the water filter is not that hard to figure out,a Katadyn hiker or one similar. The Steripen is what is driving me nuts! Which one to get. I've found them from $44.00 all the way to $170.00 for the solar rechargeable one. If Bill Gates was my uncle I know which one I would have! But he's not even close to my family grapevine, so.... I'm just looking for one for emergency use. I figure if the folks up at the old home place can still drink out of a spring without getting sick it should be good in the event of an earthquake if the New Madrid fault decides to cut loose. I figure we could walk the 12-15 miles IF NEEDED, but hopefully we would be able to drive up to the hills.

Go with the Classic or the Traveler. Both take AA batteries, which are easy to find and have many recharge options. The only difference, besides the pricing and design, is the Classic lamp is rated for 8,000 uses and the Traveler is 3,000. Both seal into standard bottles for easy sterilizing.

Thanks JJ, those were the two I was concentrating on.

Ok, here's our plan. The only REAL, MAJOR disaster (I am not counting Tornadoes in this, because thank GOD they are mostly localized)is the New Madrid fault breaks loose we intend to load up the truck and literally head for the hills. I am originally from about 10 miles north of here, and it is about another 2 miles to where Patty lived her entire childhood until she was in her 40's.

Her family has almost 80 acres that includes about a 4 or 5 acre lake that has a spring feeding into it. It has been stocked with channel and flathead catfish along with bass and perch. There are deer and other animals all over the place as the entire area for at least 3-4 miles in every direction is probably 85-90 percent woods. There is also a spring on my cousins place (that borders Patty's families place) and another on the 60 acres Dad used to own (wish he hadn't sold it back in the mid 80's) that also borders Patty's families property. It is as I said up in the hills and although a secondary highway runs right through the middle of it, it isn't that much traveled.

IF we bug out there my problem is there would be 8 of us. I am not worried about food and shelter, but Water for that many people. I'll admit I am cheap. But would it in a case like this be better to save up an extra month or so and go for the Katadyn Pocket filter instead of the hiker pro even though the springs are still used from time to time with no ill effects?

And YES, I know you can't save everyone, but family.... And I know THEY have not given thought to any type of disaster, manmade or nature and living through it and the aftermath.

200 oz?! Yowza. And I thought the 150 oz Gerber Assaults that I have are big.

Skunk I have the Adventurer Opti and like it alot. Its small and fits into the opening of my Klean Kanteen 40 wide-mouth. It uses the same CR123 batteries that I use in my flashlights so minimizes spares. If needed I can pull a battery out of something else also. The MSRP is about $90. They also make a solar recharge case but that pair goes $150. If you have another way to charge batteries then it is unecessary.

Thanks for the help JD. But I think I have made up my mind to go with one that will take aa batteries. I am going all aa or aaa batteries in my flashlights and anything else I can get by with so I will only have to stock one kind of battery, ones that should be plentiful in emergencies. Plus I can get a solar panel and charger for those batteries for I hope about $115.00 or close to it.

And recently I have been looking at flashlights that don't use batteries! You wind em up and they operate off a capacitor. I had a couple sites bookmarked but hit the wrong button and they went into Al Gores internet limbo I guess. I think that to me a flashlight like that would be for long term pack and forget until you need it route.

Java Dog, will the 40 KK fit into the maxped bottle carrier, either the 10x4 or 10x5? Looks like they should. I am wanting to get a couple of them. I have an 18oz I take to work every night and really like it. Plus them being steel, HOT WATER without having to break out another piece of gear if you need to heat up water.

Yes it will fit in either, also nicely with a GSI steel cup with folding handles under it. I got the 40 with the optional flat top and D ring for extra room. I went with the 10x5 after reading many reviews from guys with the 10x4 that started adding pouches and too much outside. The 10x5 gives you more flexibility. I have an emergy bivvy, para, med kit, multiple fire starters, signaling, lighting, compass, poncho, multiple water treatments, food, plenty of room. With the extra width been also thinking about making a small hobo wood stove to fit around the KK 40 with the GSI on top.

thank you again. I will have to start checking again for all the stuff I would like to go with it. But for now, I've been up my regular sunday 24 hours and Am going to bed. thanks again and take care.

Skunkhunter

If there are going to be 8 of you in one place with a roof over your head, you may want to pool your $ and get one of these.

http://www.lifesaversystems.com/index.html

I picked up a steri pen for BOB but would get the lifesaver for a group/long term.

The Lifesaver Bottle looks like a neat piece of gear, but it cleans about 1,300 gallons. The Katadyn Pocket is good for 13,000 gallons. That's ten times the water for about I think the extra price makes up for this. Not is only the price per gallon much better with the Katadyn, but you have to take the Lifesaver apart and fill it up about a liter at a time. The Katadyn Pocket can be continually pumped until whatever water vessel you are using is full and is much faster at it.

If you buy the Endurance Lifesaver pack, you get about the same water filtering capacity as the Katadyn at more than twice the price and you have to carry 16 spare filters.

The more I look at the Katadyn Pocket the more I like it. People like Arch and others have nothing but good things to say about it too. Hands-on review are very important to me, second only to firsthand experience with it.

Might want to check out the Katadyn Camp. It isn't something for a BOB, but would be nice to have stashed at the inlaws. Looks like it would take a lot of the work out of the job. Might be slower, but it is much cheaper than the Pocket.

I was just going through my bag making sure everything is ready to go for a camping trip this coming weekend, and noticed something in it that hasn't got much play time in this thread.

How ever POP did hit on it - Hygiene.

I have two small "collapsible" toothbrushes, tooth paste, soap strips, large wipes, small wipes, small deodorant and shaving kit.

We all know the best way to keep from getting sick is to stay clean.

Plus, many of the things in a hygiene kit have double uses. Toothpaste will polish metal for making a signaling mirror. Toothbrush be used to clean more than teeth. Shaving kit - shaving around a wound for cleaning, bandaging or stitching.

Jarhead
Now you gave me another option for filtration, great find.

Hygiene is very important! I was in the restaurant business for 30 years and had chemicals to fix this problem Obviously short term solutions are easy to plan for.
Long term is another story. I haven't seen anything (haven't looked either) for long term solutions for when the short term luxury items run out. How does one clean up after using the "hole" you dug? Just thinking about it makes me sick. Using the same hands to cook with as you just wiped with without proper cleanup, you are asking for trouble.
Plants to wipe with? Check first so you wont have an allergic reaction!
Sanitizing your hands afterwords! Without chemicals I'm clueless.

A stinky subject but a real problem if you don't know what you are doing.

[color:"red"] Warning: Lye is a strong skin irritant and can do serious damage to mucus mebranes, i.e. nose, mouth, throat and private regions. Wear glasses and rubber gloves if you got em. Do not use the same pan/pot/utensils for making soap for cooking. In a bind, scrub the hell out of the stuff. Don't let this stop you from making your own soap. Avoid using a metal pot with lye unless in a well ventilated area. Outdoors is best. Follow those rules and you have nothing to worry about. The fat will bind with the lye and neutralize it. [/color] Filter water through cooled ashes from you fire pit. Wood ashes contain lye and the water poured slowly through them will absorb the lye. Then pour the runoff water containing lye into a pot. Boil and reduce about 75 percent. Add animal fat or grease and mix well. Once mixed, let it cool. Then scoop the resulting goop into some kind of mold/s. One of those plastic soap holders you might have had the original soap in before you ran out will work perfectly. Let is harden for a few days. Remove from molds to let all sides "breathe." Let stand for a week or even two weeks if you are in a humid region.

Now you have soap.

I am sure you can find more detailed directions online. It is a fairly simple process, but takes some time. But, if you are in a long term survival scenario, you got time.

Here's a faster version I just found.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5917606_make-soap-you_re-stuck-wild.html

Now that's what I'm talking about! Great information.
Thank you, Fred

JJ, the stuff you said may not apply to a "get out of dodge" 3 day thing but it IS a VERY valid consideration and I for one DO think it belongs here. Hygiene, specifically your mouth and wounds are very important. And let's not forget the reason for the post, is POSSIBLE long term. Face facts, IF it goes down the Gumment is NOT going to respond fast enough to help a lot of folks, and SOME folks it won't get to at all. Even though we are talking about a GET OUT OF DODGE, grab and go package here, a lot of the items will be used in the long term because hopefully they WON'T be needed in the short run.

[color:"red"] Please see edit to original soap post [/color]

44Fred, pooling "resources" is the problem, they don't have any resources.

Thanks JJ, I hadn't thought about that. I was so tuned into a GRAB AND GO concept that I totally overlooked the long term even though I have considered it. How come no one has mentioned TP! Or sanitary napkins. Besides their obvious uses they are a multi-task capable item.

24,000 Japanese are still stranded without utilities. It is four days and counting.

I got TP and large wipes in my bag. I did mention the wipes, but thought the TP was a no brainer.

Cleaning supplies have been miniaturized. These weigh next to nothing and take up as much room as a box of matches.

Trek and Travel soaps come in strip dispensers like Listerine strips.

Never heard of those things. Wonder if Wally World has them? Oh and sometimes the obvious is forgotten, because we always have it without thinking about it until we run out. And the three corn cob thing (two red and one white) takes up a lot of room! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

While trying to research low sodium freeze dried foods I came across a website for a major brand that will allow you to make CC payments and they will ship according to your payments/schedules. If interested PM me and I'll give ya the link.

This is great!
Keep it comin'.

I just got a chance to catch up on the thread, and there is a lot of good info. Keep them coming.

I just read an article about the radiation contamination in Japan. Man, it is getting bad. Read about it here.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear/?hpt=T2

Made me want to bring up the prepare for your AO topic again. In the article they mention that Nukepills.com has donated 50,000 potassium iodide tablets to a Tokyo hospital. PI helps prevent thyroid cancer after exposure to radioactive iodine. Out of curiosity, I visited Nukepills.com to see how much these pills cost. Apparently they donated their entire stock. Even the PI drops were listed as out of stock, and most of their kits. Looks like they have donated or sold out of everything. If you live near a nuclear reactor and a fault line, it may be a good idea to have one of there kits in your house or car.

I am not trying to freak anyone out or help their sales, doesn't look like they'll need it any time soon, but who wants to hope the government and its infamous FEMA shows up to save the day before radiation sickness kicks in?

Check out this map. Looks like the entire eastern US is littered with reactors.
http://www.insc.anl.gov/pwrmaps/map/united_states.png

Who knows? Maybe I'm just paranoid and overly cautious, but I am thankful I am moving to the Midwest.

That map may just be a handy piece of information to have! Thanks JJ!

Man this is bad!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm

Amazing photos, Fred! Nice find.

Japan's landscape looks like the aftermath of a bombing raid. I can't imagine what those people are going through over there. My prayers go out to the country of Japan and it's people.

Well got my Tactical Tailor 3 day pack in and IT IS AWSOME! Never had a pack so well built. Now if I can just figure out what all the extra buckles hanging off of it are fore. got one center top, one on each side just below shoulder level and one on each side down at the bottom where the straps are sewn at and a couple on the very bottom of the pack. It's the squeeze buckles, I guess you would say the male ends. Now I just got to figure out what else I need to get to hang on it! (and hang them on with)

If you want a link to this fine pack for a really really good price, shoot me a PM and I'll give it to YA.

Randy, what color did you get? Is the external straps for rope, a bed roll, por something like that?

It's the green one. The straps ARE for attaching other items, but each trap only has the male buckle end on it! that's why It is confusing to me.

The external straps and buckles are compression straps. If the pack isn't filled up and you don't want the stuff inside moving around, you tighten those to take up the slack. They also take stress off the zippers when it is full. And, of course you can use them for bed rolls and the like.

P.S. Send me that link again

No problem JJ. But the straps I am talking about don't have anywhere to attach to to compress anything!

PMing the link to you in about a minute.

I wondered into the clothing store on base yesterday and snagged one of these Leatherman Micras. It was in a clearance bin for $5. I through it in my first aid kit.

The Compression straps I have figured out. But there are 4 buckles on the side of the pack that goes against your back. Two, one on each side just below where the shoulder straps are sewn on (the top), and the other two, one on each side just above where the lower part of the shoulder straps are sewn to the pack. Plus there are either two or 3 buckles on the very bottom of the pack.

As I said, all the buckles that do not have anything to attach to are the male portion of the buckle.

I like the looks of that leatherman, it might well be a lot handier than you would at first think.

Thing is tiny. With a little AAA flashlight, you'd have a pretty versatile keychain.

OK. SO I looked at the link again and see the buckles you are talking about. My issued day pack has the same buckles. They snapped into corresponding buckles on the large pack (I sent you link to it) for a piggy back ride.

I carry a micra in my pack, they are light and can come in handy.

Ok, this old retired CHAIR Force Sgt kinda thought that might be that case.

Back Packs, that's something you sling from your shoulders to carry stuff in isn't it? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Checkout the new items at Uncle Sam's if you have size 9 feet.

I POSSIBLY could wear that size, depending on what it is. Thanks for the tip.

Ishi, I was reading the threads last night and saw a "PACK" laying under your ar15. Looked like the main section was a hydration bladder, and you had an SS4 on the right side and a DF (?) attached to the strap and several mag pouches on the left. What kind of rig was that?

That's an SOTECH Snipers Hybrid Hydration Harness. SOTECH's website is horrible to navigate, but their gear is top notch. The lower portion is what they call the Padded Pistol Belt (PPB), connected to a harness with an embedded hydration system attached.

I use it for day hikes / hunting...and pair it with SOTECH's Mission Go Bag (MGB). Their go bag is by far my favorite piece of gear. I had it underneath the rifle, so you couldn't really see it. Originally designed for medics, it has compartments galore and is the most versatile kit I own.

Ok, I finally ordered a "European shoulder bag", <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> commonly called a murse. I ordered the 511 tactical push pack, the Dark earth color. $39.99 with free shipping! I think it's a pretty good deal. Now I am on the quest for a SS (or 2) water bottles. I've had an 18oz Kleen Kanteen bottle for a few years and really like it. They're good bottles and are not as pricy as some others.

Anyway, my quest continues as I add items to my "Short" trip bag and also for my 3 day BOB.

I use a Tatonka 1000 SS bottle. I like it. The thing is bullet proof, but hard to find in the US. Pretty sure it is a European brand as I have only seen them on shelves here. They are a bit pricey, but are the toughest bottles I have ever had.

I have started carrying the wide mouth nalgene bottles with a GSI Cup in addition to a water bladder. (100oz camel back)

I can heat up what I need in the GSI cup.

I had/have considered the nalgene with the cup but plastic just bothers me, the durability. SS I feel would just last better.

And on this subject, frontier filter or the frontier filter pro? The first is rated at 20 gallons and the pro at 50. I think I actually like the pro better because of the protective cap and bite valve. Plus you can set it up as a gravity filter. Then all I need is a Steripen and a normal filter (I will probably go with the hiker pro) and then I will have THAT part of the equation covered.

Oh plus the SS bottles would allow me to heat up water without another piece of gear to loose. I have an email into Kleen Kanteen to see if their 40oz bottle is the same diameter as the nalgene 1 liter. I have tried everywhere to find the size of the nalgene 1 lit and haven't been able to find it anywhere.

I found some mountain house freeze dried food in Wallyworld the other day. Next time I'm there I think I will buy a couple packages to see what they are really like. If they're OK may throw a couple in my bag for us. One package would give (so they claim) each of us a meal. That way I could throw 4 or maybe even 5 or 6 packages in the bag and we would have the food part covered for a couple three or four days.

Go with the pro. It isn't much bigger or more expensive and filters 2.5 times as much water.

Yeah I plan on getting the Frontier pro, and maybe at least one of the smaller frontier filters for a just in case.

Things are starting to come together, if they will just continue that way.

The Mountain house beef stroganoff is awesome. My favorite of the ones they make. The chicken and rice is the next favorite on the list.

It's amazing to me how much of a difference in flavor there is between military issue MREs and civilian rations. I don't understand how an MRE can have THAT many calories and still taste like animal waste stuck in a dirty gym sock and then drudged through a swamp...

Are you saying the civilian MRE's are bad? If so, thanks for the heads up,
I was about to order some. Don't different companies make MRE's (civilian and Militaty)? If so, which brands are preferred?

Here's a link to a "Survival kit" that fits in a small loaf pan and then gets stuffed into an M-16 magazine pouch.

http://www.m4040.com/Survival/Survival%20Kit.htm

I think you misunderstood him. He is saying the MREs taste bad compared to civilian rations like Mountain House freeze dried meals.

To answer you question though; I have tried a few non-military MREs and they were worse than USGI MREs.

Also, I actually enjoy some of the issued MREs. I think the surveys on the MRE menus service members complete each year make a difference. It got rid of the Country Captain chicken MRE. That thing was like eating sandstone.

Does anyone know if the GI 1qt adapter cap that allows the attachment of a hose to the canteen then your gas mask for drinking will fit the Frontier Pro filter inlet hose? Since that filter will work as a gravity filter, you could maybe use one canteen to gather water, hang it upside down and let the water drain through this "Inline filter" into your container of choice. I USED to have a cap like that and could look at the nipple but I have NO IDEA where it could be.

I have both a Frontier Pro and the canteen cap with drinking tube adapter. I will test this idea out when I get home today.

I just realized that there is no reason to use the NBC canteen cap since U.S> military canteens have 28mm threads and so does the Frontier Pro. Just screw it on like you would a normal water bottle.

MY older style (?) green plastic canteen has threads a lot bigger than 28mm. You are talking about the 1 liter water/coke bottles, right?

I am talking about the 1 and 2 quart green plastic canteens. Here are the specs for the NBC cap copied from a gov issue site.

Fits standard 1-and 2-quart Military and NATO standard 28mm military canteens.

Yeah that's the cap I had (at one time at least). Thanks JJ. I think you just saved me about 50 bucks for ss canteens. Now all I need to do is get a couple of the new ss canteen cups with the wire bale.

Before I went to Cambodia, I was issued a military version of the Frontier Pro. I think the only difference was the color. It's green. The package said the threads were 28mm just like the civilian version does and it fit my canteen. I don't remember using any adapters.

GREAT! Man I love cooperation!

I have doubts about a gravity system with canteens though. As the dirty water flows out of the higher canteen, the flow rate will slow drastically due to the partial vacuum created because there is no way for air to enter and replace the escaping water. This is why gravity filter setups are usually done with collapsible containers. You could always drill a hole in the canteen you plan to hold the dirty water with, but I think you would be better served just buying an $8 2 liter Platypus Platy Bottle and filling both 1 quart canteens with the single Platy bottle.

Hey, you're smart! No wonder You're a marine! I've been looking At Arch's list and the collapsible container was on it.

Check your PM

Will do and thanks for the information about the canteens. Well my relief is here and I have go to get some meds. Take care and talk at ya again later.

Sorry to confuse you, I meant military MREs are the ones that taste horrid. The newest most modern ones aren't all that bad (most of the dishes, anyways), but there are some real stinkers in the bunch. For example, Egg Omelette... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" />

Most of the civilian MREs I've had tasted wonderful, many even included a can of soda or name brand foods like chips and stuff. The calories and nutrients are less balanced than a MIL MRE though. Emergency survival food they are definitely not.
I have seen MREs on the Sportsman's Guide website that come boxed like military MREs, but since it's illegal to resale military MREs, I know they're civilian. From what I understand those are ok. As a baseline, I would say those are the worst of the civilian ones. If it's a SHTF scenario, however, I think if you're hungry it won't matter all that much how it tastes.

Also, any civilian MRE will not have nearly the amount of calories that Mil MREs do. You can expect between 2000-3500 max in a civilian MRE, while 4000 calories is the minimum in a Mil-spec meal. Either way, one MRE should last one individual at least a day, possibly a day and a half.

No need to be sorry, I'm easily confused.
I had no idea the mil spec MRE's couldn't be re sold.
Good information. Thanks, Fred

If you really want military MREs, eBay has them.

Morning gang, if you order mre's from eBay be very careful. You need to check manuf date and that is not always easy. My buddy ordered some and they came mixed mash, some very very old some in bad condition. The main problem is you do not know how they were stored prior to you getting them.
If you google mre there is a website devoted to them with pics, codes, and even how to tell manufacture date by wrapping and contents,
Hope this helps
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good looking out, brother.

JJ, we can't let Randy forget that he said that!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Was Randy tired when he said that, just don't sound like him LOL.

I think my sugar level was dropping. Therefore I can not be responsible for my earlier posts! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> BUT I got over it and have been working at a feverish pace to get my murse and BOB better fitted out.

On my TT bag, there isn't any sternum or waist belts. But I had a couple of gray straps with a fastex side release buckle that connects them in the middle and velcro on the end of each strap. Made a sternum strap out of it. I THINK that way I can use my web belt for a Belt order rig, at least I hope so! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I still need a few more items, Paracord, Water kit, a poncho (I gave mine away a few years ago to the trash guys that were working in a torrential downpour) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" /> Oh well they needed them more than I did, at least at the time! haha. Need to make a Tourniquet like JJ says the military uses now. I probably need to get a quik clot sponge, just in case. Oh well, I guess I'll figure it out as I go along and with the help of you Dawgs.

Going on sale today.
Anybody have any experience with these?

Emergency Food.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.asp...rketingItemName

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.asp...277&topnav=

Looks a bit large for a BOB.................... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />





















But no never tried it.

I had to read your post 3 times before I realized you were crackin on the post above yours! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

I would post a Here's my sign, but we don't have any of them here! So this one will have to work. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

The kit sounds interesting.
I went ahead and ordered one of each. Cheap enough.
I'll let you all know what's up.
Fred

The one thing that bothers me is that it is VEGIN. Don't get me wrong, there are times I DON'T want any meat, but how much craving for meat protein would be brought on by this? It's not a criticism, just a question because I don't know the answer.

I thought about that myself, that's why I picked up both.
I certainly do eat beef on a regular basis. I just figured the neighborhood
cats/birds and squirrels would be a good alternate source of protein <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Still
need the fat though.

Now you're thinking. Many people curl up their noses at "Non traditional" or TABOO foods. Hey to some folks in India eating beef is one of the gravest sins that one can commit! It's all about YOUR culture. BUT I ain't eating no rice Bugs!

Fred, please do let us know how those turn out. Meat can be supplemented but I like beef too!

Anyone that would eat goats would eat about anything! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just about! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey, I just ate lamb... sheesh...

Pretty simple tutorial for a wood stove. If you drill the air holes out instead of using a church key this would allow you to nest a Nalgene 32 oz with a steel bottle cup on it into the stove. The entire package would fit into a large Maxpedition bottle holder. Add a few holes at the top to slide some bolts through, and it would keep the GSI steel cup from falling into the stove.

In case my explanation isn't clear here is a pic I found online.



http://www.backpacking.net/makegear/falk-woodstove/index.html

Got the one month for one person emergency food tonight. The other package is no where to be found, I'll check with Costco in a couple days if it doesn't show. Critique to follow when both are opened and sorted out.

Now that I received both, I'll start filling you in.
The first above would be my choice for BOB. The portions
are much smaller and much more practical.
The second above is packaged for large groups so I'll
probably donate this to our church.
Now the taste testing begins.
If I could only figure out how to post pictures!

Fred

http://photobucket.com/Costco-emergency-foods

Figured it out, somewhat.

These foods are not just "add hot water"!
I'm making the potato soup as I type. Boil 5 cups of water
then stir in mix and cook for 20-25 min over medium flame.

Fred

Took care of that for you. If you click on the IMG code it will copy it then you paste it in your post

Sounds like they might be decent then, if you have to actually cook them. How did they taste?

With photobucket, if you hover your cursor over the photo, it will bring up a link menu, then just click the box next to IMG Code and it will copy the link so you can paste here. Easiest way I've found.

Thanks guys for your help.
The potato soup was very good. My better half liked it as well.
For "home" emergency or camping with amenities, this is good stuff.

Good to know. Thanks Fred!

awesome, I'll have to give them a closer look. MREs are too expensive, unless you catch them when they fall off the back of the truck, ya know?

Haha, our church had 52 cases do that, fall off the back of the truck. Along with 50 cases of 1/2 liter water bottles.

lol, sounds like quite a mess!

Just in case you thought they actually did fall off the truck, they didn't. I was trying to make a funny, and probably failed miserably! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />

Oh, you mean they walked off of the back of the truck then? I gotcha! I thought they had actually been dumped from the truck accidentally.. Well, in that case, that actually really stinks. It's one thing to nab one or two cases from a military supply room, it's another to take that much from a Church... I hope they're ashamed every time they eat one.

Nice write up. I am going to begin collecting this stuff.

ACTUALLY ECF what happened was the EMA was looking for a place to store the MRE's for a Shelter in our town. The city didn't have enough room to store that many boxes so they asked if Our Church wanted to store them as we are a shelter/warming station anyway. Additionally the Water is about to reach it's out of date limit (HOW does water go bad in sealed plastic bottles?) so we took that as well. Guess I better not try any more funnies. Patty always said I can't tell a joke.

Oh, I see. lol, well, it's kinda funny in retrospect. I'm obviously easily confused <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think water can start to grow bacteria once the seal breaks down in the plastic. Even though plastic will be around for Milennia, after we're gone, before it fully breaks down, the seals degrade quickly enough to enough sludge to slip in. Chances are it's still good for at least a couple years after the exp date, but be sure and smell it before you drink it. if it smells rancid or stagnant, it probably is.

It's all inside a little used room inside a closet in the church. The bottles are of course sealed and then each case of 1/2 lit bottles are sealed in plastic wrap. I would think that they should be good for quite a while.

I am sorry about confusing you, but you are from Colorado after all! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LOL, I've always known the mountain air has had an effect. You should have seen me at sea level when I was at Ft. Lee. MAN did I act STRANGE!

If anyone down plays the importance of having a B.O.B, just watch an episode of the Biography Channel's "I Survived".

No gas mask? I was wondering if one was warranted at least for the Bug-In kit...?
Not sure if I would take one with me but I might throw it in the truck if i was heading out in it. thoughts?

Also, Foodinsurance.com has some good food for storing. Check em out.

a boyscout is always prepared.

I read on one of the forums that the plastic bottles chemically break up tainting the water after a while. It said this could effect taste and in some cases safety. I don't know how true or false it is.

Skunk I'm reading this page by page so if this does not apply disregard or I'll edit it but for your bol you might consider a big berkley for the water situation , I'm looking into them now. Arch awsome post, but I've been a fan of your writing from the deadheads.:)
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I just saw these at target in the camping section, they have Coleman brand on them there, just a FYI.

Targets! Cool, thanks Sar. I've been looking for some of those things. I have been looking at different water "drip" filters and how to assemble them.

I have also looked at "Natural" filters, combo of grass/dirt/sand and cloth.

Read that SERE manual I posted. It has a "how to" for a makeshift filter. Just about everything you can find in nature except the can. I bet if you had to, you could figure a way to make it with out a can. Hollow log maybe.

I would love to print that manual off but I don't think the Sheriff would want me to use up over 100 pages of laser printer toner. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" /> besides it would take up A LOT of room, 8 1/2 by 11 paper.

Randy, I have not looked at the manual but there might be a way to just print the pages/s that you want. You get what you want and the boss stays happy.

Hey J.J. that is a great reference material. thanks for posting it.

I could/can find the manual in it's regular military format. Once upon a time (way back in 1977) I had the manual they put in Aircraft ejection seat survival kits and wonder of wonders it got destroyed by water many many years ago in a far away land.

But I for one really appreciate this thread that Arch has so graciously posted up for us.

Thank You Sir!

I don't know how you folks feel about Wally World but our local store has started to stock Quick Clot! I am glad. I picked up two yesterday, one for my BOB pack and one for my "Walkabout" Murse. I think that I am going to reorganize it somewhat so I can carry more stuff that I NEED!

I am thinking about replacing my SS water bottles with USGI canteen/cup on a web belt setup with my 6.5 Reg. That way I can get more first aid/essentials in the Murse along with some sustenance supplies (ok, snacks)!

Once I get things rearranged I will put it up here and Y'all can point out any gaps that I need to fill.

Where did you find the Quick Clot? I was at Wally World yesterday getting some shotgun stuff. Looked at the outdoors stuff and was not impressed at all.

Jeff, it was in the medical/medicine section. Don't know if all wally worlds will have it or not.

I THOUGHT I had posted this somewhere but Can't find it! Oh well here it is again. Let me know what you think as far as if I have made any major oversights?

MY MURSE KIT (511 Push Pack)

SAK tinkerer
Ontario Rat Model 1 (original) folder
Whistle
Small signal mirror
Smith’s diamond rod sharpener
ITI 3 power level plus strobe led light (aa)
Small Silva folding compass
Ball cap bill led flashlight
Swamp Warden velcroed to outside of the bag
4 Chemlight light sticks (2x30 min and 2x12 hour
4x 6 inch Fat wood sticks
PJ cotton balls x12 in 2 35mm film canisters
Fire starter kit (altoids box with tinder)
Leatherman tool
8X20 Simmons monocular
25oz. Water bottle
2 10 inch Velcro straps
Pair leather gloves
Disinfectant wipes (12)
Alcohol pads(12)
Equate triple Antibiotic ointment(1 tube)
Tylenol, Ibuprofen, Aleve
Numerous assorted Band-Aids
4 4x4 gauze pads
25 2 in Roll of medical tape
Roll of gauze
2 inch gauze pads
Mercuroclear antiseptic/anesthetic
Quik Clot sponge
tourniquet
Moleskin
2 pair rubber gloves
1 small (2in) scissors
Imodium tablets
Benadryl capsules
Small razor knife

That’s pretty much it. Have I made any major omissions?

Randy, your doctor prescribed meds. Just a little waterproof container with them in there. Might throw a couple granola bars and trail mix in since they are small and last for a long time--helps with hunger. Hreat looking kit btw.

I'd have to agree here as well, I love myself a pipe and a cob (id never bring an expensive pipe w/ me..) +some tobacco +the outdoors = a very relaxing weekend. Granted im definitely in "Casual Pedestrial camping" side more than "Survival" side, but hey.. whatever P:

Thanks Jeff, I had forgot about our Prescription Meds! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" /> I already have some "Granola" style bars in the truck.

I have thought about trying to find some of the individual "MRE type) one serving instant coffee packs to throw in there. I want to keep this kit rather small (as keeping it all in my 511 Push Pack) but there is my 3 day assault TT pack and a smaller yardsale bag I have for Patty. Matter of fact, I need to get to work stocking that one up with some stuff as well.

Oh and again, THANK YOU ARCH for starting this thread! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> I think that most all of us have learned something from this thread, or at least given us additional ideas.

Yah I am still working on a backpack but then it's on to purchasing some of this stuff.

Steeley, check these guys out, they have a couple of back packs that I GUARANTEE are Quality Products. this is the same place I got my Tactical Tailor from.

http://www.greyghostoutlet.com/

I need to build a BOB for the wife and self.

OK, predominately a FAK, but I also have some other stuff in it and there is still room. The main pouch still has room (big enough for 3 canned sodas side by side and one laying across the top). So I still have some room to add more "Stuff" Here is the bag, a 511 Push Pack in Dark Earth tone.



I guess I should call it a BOB Lite! If I am home it is too. If I am in one of our vehicles, it is too. It is an augmentation to the regular BOB that is still a continuing work in progress. One Day I will be pretty Satisfied with the BOB I am gradually working on for Myself and a smaller one for Patty.

In this BOB Lite I have the standard FAK items and some "Other stuff" as well.

You can see on the top left, a 3 led (2 white and 1 red) cap bill light and a Smiths diamond sharpening rod. Then the black 25oz water bottle and the whistle. The Swamp Warden is velcroed to the flap and a 3 power level ITI (plus strobe) 1aa flashlight on the right side of the bag on the outside of that zippered pouch.

It's a page or so back so here are the contents again

MY MURSE KIT (511 Push Pack)

SAK tinkerer
Ontario Rat Model 1 (original) folder
Whistle
Small signal mirror
Smith’s diamond rod sharpener
ITI 3 power level plus strobe led light (aa)
Small Silva folding compass
Ball cap bill led flashlight
Swamp Warden velcroed to outside of the bag
4 Chemlight light sticks (2x30 min and 2x12 hour)
4x 6 inch Fat wood sticks
12 PJ cotton balls in 2 35mm film canisters
Fire starter kit (altoids box with tinder)
Leatherman tool
8X20 Simmons monocular
25oz. Water bottle
2 10 inch Velcro straps
Pair leather gloves
Disinfectant wipes (12)
Alcohol pads(12)
Equate triple Antibiotic ointment(1 tube)
Burn cream (1 tube)
Tylenol, Ibuprofen, Aleve
Numerous assorted Band-Aids
4 4x4 gauze pads
25ft 1in Roll of medical tape
Roll of gauze (25ft x 2in)
2 inch gauze pads
Mercuroclear antiseptic/anesthetic
Quik Clot sponge
tourniquet
Moleskin
2 pair rubber gloves
1 small (2in blade) scissors
Imodium tablets
Benadryl capsules
Small razor knife
Bandana
Just added the following
Six inch mini pry bar
Coleman water purification tablets (and neutralizer)

You can get a surprising amount of stuff in a small place if you really try. Thanks for the inspiration guys!

Nice FAK Randy. I am going to check those bags out now.

Steeley, you CAN put a 1 liter bottle in the side pockets, but I did not feel as if they were secure enough. The taller and thinner bottle I have allows the "Pocket" to be almost completely zipped up and is a lot more secure. Right now I have a web belt with 2 one quart canteens on it and OR I could use my 2 quart canteen if needed. I will probably wind up pairing the 2 quart with Patty's BOB and using the web belt setup for myself. Once I figure out which knife I plan on carrying on it I will need to get a sheath built to accommodate the width of the belt.

Ok and make sure what ever bottle you get is Stainless Steel!

I'm no expert, but I would add:
hankercheif tied to bag (multi-use, helps with water filter)
water purification tabs
unlubricated condoms (small, can hold food or water).
something to eat (3 weeks no food = a tough first few days, followed by dizziness and weakness (well, that's how my fasts go)
paracord
some duct tape wrapped around a Fisher Space Pen
I'm guessing your AO is somewhat warm, as I don't see any shelter/emergency blankets- maybe no room in the bag?

TT, this is just Primarily a FAK. I do have some other items there as well as shown above. My main BOB, along with the one I am putting together for Patty will contain more items, including some food (I plan on putting some granola bar type items in the above listed kit though). Oh and I do have a bandana in there.

I overestimated the size. It will still fit THREE soda cans laying flat, not side by side.

Skunk Hunter.I am new to the forum but I have lots of experience with building out bags.have you consider putting a .22 pistol or revolver and some ammo in that lite pack. Sounds like the space you have is perfect for a couple 100 round bricks

Gun dog, thanks for the input! Only 22 handgun I have is a browning buckmark, won't fit in there. I am working on trying to swap it for something smaller (a Ruger of some kind perhaps). But I will probably have the 22 in the actual BOB or on a belt. This bag is predominately a FAK with some extras thrown in cause there was room.

As far as kit, I still have 2 1 liter water bottles with ss cups they nest in in my BOB and a SS mess kit but the pot is only about a half liter. I've also got a 2 qt canteen and 2 1 quart. I have a smaller backpack for Patty that I need to start working on as well. Got a few more things to throw in them then start the brain storming (also known as picking Architect's brains!).

Oh and It doesn't matter if you are new to the forum or one of the original founders. Make yourself at home and share what you know as you soak up new information.

Skunk Hunter. Some small .22 guns I have seen have been made by Walther. Some one I know uses a small .22mag revolver for ccw. its a bad ccw round but is a sweet little gun! It even has a small trijicon tritium sights for night shooting. The little revolver is only about 5inchs long and you con swap out the cylinders pretty fast.

Just some food for thought
A shemag may work better than a handkerchief for some people as it is generally larger in size
A sock or cheap mesh bag to give support to a condom full of water
paracord can be replaced with 8mm or 9mm static cord
grease pen and/or pencil may replace the pen
space blankets work ok as does a large orange garbage bag
in your FAK you may want oral glucose gel (diabetics) and aspirin (heart attack)
mole skin for the feet and can be used to quite down metal parts banging (commonly used on arrow rests)

cosco may have the coffee packs

I prefer to attach a set of suspenders to my web belt to keep the weight on my shoulders. I know others that find the suspenders uncomfortable with other gear.

Another option for the vaseline cotton balls, is to get larger slurpee type straws. You can stuff the cotton into the straws and fold over the ends (you can later cut the straws to get the desired amount of cotton ball out). You can also dip cotton balls into paraffin wax, leaving one end free of wax or coated in Vaseline. If you practice you will get the amount of wax right to increase the burn time.
You can also take cotton string, dip it into paraffin wax and cut into lengths such as what will fit into a 35mm film case. I usually double up the string until it is about 1/8 to 1/4 inch thick before dipping in wax. Theses light easily with a lighter or put one end into a cotton ball.

Caution with match containers, plastic ones have been known to build up a static charge and light the matches inside. I do not know anyone that this has happened to, but I have been told f this risk

8mm or 9mm static cord may be a better option for some people than paracord

I would like a shemagh but just haven't found one with a design I want yet. I like the Skull and crossbones but haven't found them for sale anywhere yet.

The sock and or bag would be a necessity for that type of emergency water bag.
Yeah I plan on getting some of those glucose type horse pills you can get at walmart, about the size of a quarter and comes in different flavors. I have them in the Jeep and the Truck. I had just not thought about getting them for my BOB lite. Good Idea, thanks as I and Patty both are diabetics.

Oh and I have a set of military suspenders for my web belt setup. right now that is all in the regular BOB.

The glucose gel comes in a tube and can be squeezed into the inside of a cheek and dissolves quickly

Don't think I have ever seen the gel. How does it hold up to heat and cold?

Oh and I think I have found a solution to my water bottle dilemma.

Right now my bottle is 25 ounces. Well I wanted the extra almost 8 ounces. I can put the stainless steel cup in the side zipper pocket, the 1 liter ss bottle in it and then use paracord around the pull cord on the pocket and loop it around the bottle neck! I'll try it out later and see if I actually like it or not.

http://www.glucoburst.com/glucose-gel.aspx
http://www.dex4.ca/main_our_products_Gel.asp
http://www.sands.ca/insta-glucose
http://www.walgreens.com/store/catalog/O..._sku=sku6000191

Thanks for the links Bill.

Also, google "energy gel". I haven't really compared the prices of the "performance gels" versus those made for diabetics in a long time.

Gu, Powergel, Clif Shots, etc., etc. TASTE better. Check the nutritional information also. Most of these small packets contain more than 15g, more like 24-30g of quick carbs; and some also contain other ingredients such as electrolytes and protein.

Also, I have NOT thoughtfully compared how fast these will raise glucose levels or how they dissolve and absorb in the mouth -- which might be a MAJOR factor in emergency use.

A cursory review indicates that the "performance gels" might be a less expensive and better option.

Gu contains caffeine which you wouldn't want to give to a diabetic if they were in distress.
Not sure about the other products mentioned.
Glucose gel is aimed primarily at diabetics

Man I love these threads always fun to see what everyone is packing. I end up carrying a backpack 99% of the time since my kids are usually with me and they dont tend to carry much in their BOBs except cool stuff. Its cool though, I am just glad they are in to their BOBs. At 8 pouncds a gallon, water aint light. My man purse is a Maratac bag from County Comm. It works so well I bought another.

The performance gels can be bought with varying levels of caffeine, including no caffeine.
____________________________________________________________

http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20080128/caffeine-risks-may-rattle-diabetics

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/caffeine-and-blood-sugar/MY01070

The articles referenced above indicate that caffeine increased glucose levels in studies on Type 2 diabetics.
________________________________________________________________________

This next article indicates that caffeine is not a good choice during hypoglycemia.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/402727-hypoglycemia-caffeine/
________________________________________________________________________

The next two articles indicate that caffeine before exercise lowers the risk of hypoglycemic events.

http://diabetesnewshound.com/type1/caffeine-exercises/

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/724488

______________________________________________________________________

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> You have a good point, which is supported by some research. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

However, in my opinion and experience, when a diabetic is undergoing a hypoglycemic event, I have no issue with giving them sugar even though it has caffeine, i.e. performance gels, caffeinated energy drinks, or coffee with the APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF SUGAR.

However, I would not give them a DIET (no sugar) drink or non-sugared coffee. I also would not give them cheeseburgers or pizza UNTIL the blood glucose levels have increased to an appropriate range and the symptoms of the event have subsided.

The form of the sugar is also important.

Guys remember a condom will only fill up if the water is under pressure. That is fine if you have a hose or a water filter etc. But if you have those things you wouldn't be filling a condom full of water. Also how will it be sealed?

Jeeps, which bags did you get? I had thought about them and in the long run I probably should have. Oh well, they make bags all the time.

AND a lot of good discussion about diabetic problems, thanks!

I got to check out some of this gel you are talking about. I have had the chewable tabs that Skunk is talking about, but I like the idea of a gel a lot better.

I got this from an article on Survivaltopics.com and thought it was interesting and might be of interest here.

Use Calcium Hypochlorite for Disinfect Water

A 1-pound pag of calcium hypochlorite in granular form will treat up to 10,000 gallons of drinking water

Calcium hypochlorite is one of the best chemical disinfectants for water, better than household bleach by far. It destroys a variety of disease causing organisms including bacteria, yeast, fungus, spores, and viruses.

Calcium Hypochlorite is widely available for use as swimming pool chlorine tablets or white powder that is much more stable than chlorine. This is often known as “pool shock”.
How to Disinfect Water Using Calcium Hypochlorite

Using granular calcium hypochlorite to disinfect water is a two step process.

To make a stock of chlorine solution (do not drink this!) dissolve 1 heaping teaspoon (about one-quarter of an ounce) of high-test (78%) granular calcium hypochlorite for each two gallons (eight liters) of water.
To disinfect water add one part of the chlorine solution to 100 parts water to be treated.
Let the mixture sit for at least one-half hour before drinking.

Be sure to obtain the dry granular calcium hypochlorite since once it is made into a liquid solution it will begin to degrade and eventually become useless as a disinfecting agent. This also means you should make your treated drinking water in small batches, for example enough for a few weeks at a time at most.

Another plus for using calcium hypochlorite to disinfect water for emergency use is that a little goes a very long way. A 1-pound pag of calcium hypochlorite in granular form typically costs only a few $US dollars and can be obtained in any swimming pool supply section of your hardware store or online. This amount will treat up to 10,000 gallons of drinking water, which is enough for a family of four for some six or seven years at a gallon per day per person!

Calcium hypochlorite will store for a long period of time and remain effective as a chemical drinking water treatment. So get rid of the household bleach and buy a can of Calcium hypochlorite for your disaster emergency water disinfection needs. It lasts far longer and treats far more water than the traditional chlorine bleach water disinfection treatment.

Good info everyone! Thanks for keeping this important thread alive.

Randy - Here's a link to the MSDS sheet on Calium Hypochlorite. (I always like to read the dangers associated with chemicals to be used in an emergency)....

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927478

Thanks Arch, and WELCOME BACK!

I started reading the sheet and went like HOLY S***! But I guess it really isn't ALL that much worse than bleach, right? And YEAH this is a GREAT thread!

I found the gel today AND a liquid! Gonna try the gel though, should work out pretty good.

I wanted to make a few more notes related to my post above. I quoted only the parts somewhat related to this post. (I apologize that the other post is a little hard on the eyes with the formatting.)

(1) Skunk, I hope you'll provide some details regarding which gel you chose and your experience after you've used it.

(2) FWIW IIRC, the article indicated an 8% increase in blood glucose levels. Almost anything could be blamed for such a small difference. We're talking about the difference between 100mg/dl vs 108mg/dl, or 200mg/dl vs 216mg/dl.

You could take ten Type I diabetics, make them keep the exact same activities, exact same insulin doses, exact same schedules, etc., etc., etc. for two weeks and the blood glucose levels could still fluctuate 8% at the same time from day to day.

(3) IME and a fairly well-known fact among diabetic specialists, when a Type I diabetic incurs a "severe" hypoglycemic episode which is then countered by simple sugars, a second episode can occur fairly soon IF the person does not take in some fairly complex food (containing complex carbs along with some fats and protein, i.e. cheesburger <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) soon after achieving an accepted blood glucose level after the first episode.

BIllyJoe, I only use it when I can not get to another source, I consider them Emergency use only. So Far I have only had to use the glucose "Tablets" 4 times in 6 years. And only had 2 episodes that I can remember where we were in walmart. I drank a regular coke, which got me sugar up to where I was feeling "Normal" again then we got something to eat. My Episodes are NOT severe, When I feel it starting to come on even the slightest I look for something to take, either food or the tablets. But I for one thank you for the information and I am sure other Diabetics here will find it interesting as well.

In regards to a canteen cup and perhaps the canteen, has anyone tried the NATO Crusader canteen and stove?

Putting together a new BOB and Rebuilding a Get Home Bag after it got jacked.
Anyway, haveing a tough time decideing on S.S. vs Nalgene. The price is much more attractive on the Nalgene, but is it durable enough? The G.I. cup could be used for heating, so no issue there. They allso have a oasis Tritan canteen with a 38mm opening. Don't know if it is G.I. spec for thread size. Allso having a tough time finding weights on the Nalgene, but would assume that they are lighter.
What are your thoughts guys?

PERSONALLY I like the SS better, more durable than plastic, and if you get something like the Kleen Kanteen (only plastic is the stopper) you could boil water in it. OR as you indicated, the GI or GI type (probably be the same size if listed as 1qt. would fit in the SS canteen cup.

Just read back and saw mention thet th GI threads are 28mm

http://warriorwoundcare.com/OralIV/

http://warriorwoundcare.com/7DayBandage/

Anyone have any experience with this stuff?
Jeff Randall seems to like it

Interesting Post Bill. That could be some good stuff if it works as advertised. All I read was the cover pages. Oh and howdy!

Bump for Jason

Recently a new job and almost stalker has me looking into alot of new things. I want to be geared up and really prepared in the next two weeks.

This is going to be fun!

I've had a lot of time to revisit my gear this year, and have been making small modifications to my own Bug Out Bag. More than anything, I've been moving gear from the BOB to a Bug-Out-Belt...something that I can have on me all the time.

The belt contains the basics. The bag contains more advanced gear.

I like this idea. I don't have a bug out belt though. I have a light pack, MaxPed Monsoon, I carry with me everyday. It has small amount of food, water bottle, small water proof first aid with Katadyn water tablet etc etc. Weighs about 7 pounds without the laptop in it.

The full size BOB is always in my ride though.

I am thinking on body, in briefcase, in BOB and in truck.

The full extent of my gear is sort of extensive. My wife has an identical EDC and GHB. Her Bug-Out-Belt and Bug-Out-Bag are lighter weight versions of mine.

PERSONAL SURVIVAL KIT (PSK)

This is on my person nearly 100% of the time (except in the shower or while sleeping). If you asked me to empty my pockets right now this is what I'd pull out:

(1) Ferro Rod, LMF Army Model
(1) Flashlight, Leatherman Serac S3
(1) Battery, SureFire CR123
(1) Folding Blade Knife, Spyderco Delica4
(1) Swiss Army Knife, Victorinox Hiker

* I also routinely carry a handgun with at least (2) spare magazines.

EVERYDAY CARRY KIT(EDC)

This "pouch kit" goes with me everywhere. It sits on my desk at work, goes with me to job sites, etc. Basically, this small kit allows me to travel light and inconspicuously but with more advanced survival gear. My wife carries an ideal kit.

Carry Pouch

(1) Small General Purpose Pouch, Diamondback Tactical (CB)

Fire Making

(1) Butane Lighter, Bic Classic
(1) Ferro Rod, LMF Army Model

First Aid & Hygiene

(3) Bandages, Assorted Adhesive
(1) Sanitation Wipes, Germ-X Singles

Food

(1) Emergency Ration, 1200 Calorie MayDay

Navigation & Signaling

(1) Compass, Engineers
(1) Flashlight, Guidesman LED
(2) Batteries, Energizer AA
(1) Flashlight, Streamlight Nano LED
(1) Marker, Sharpie Industrial
(1) Whistle, Generic

Shelter

(10f) ParaCord, 7-Strand 550
(1) Poncho, Emergency
(1) Survival Blanket, Emergency
(1) Trash Bag, 1Mil 39 Gallon

Tools

(1) Can Opener, USGI P38
(10) Duct Tape, Wrapped on Business Card
(1) Knife - Small, SYKCO Scrapivore
(1) Sheath, Mashed Cat Kydex
(1) Knife - Swiss Army, Wenger Highlander
(1) Knife Sharpener, Gatco Triseps
(1) Knife Sharpener, Gerber Ceramic

Water

(1) Emergency Water Filter, AquaMira Frontier
(1) Water Bottle, Platypus 1L Collapsible
(1 btl) Water Purification Tablets, Portable Aqua
(2) Water Purification Tablets, Katadyn

* I also carry a 32oz Nalgene BPA free water bottle EVERYWHERE I go.


GET HOME BAG (GHB)

We each keep one of these in our 4x4 SUV's. The idea is to use the contents to GET HOME in an emergency.

Gear

(1) Versipack, Maxpedition Jumbo (K)

Apparel, Wool (Store in Dry Sack)

(1) Cap, Watch-Type 100% Wool (B)
(1 pr) Glove Liners, USGI Wool (OD)
(1 pr) Socks, Cold Weather Wool

Fire Making

(1) Butane Lighter, Bic Classic
(1) Candle, UCO Emergency 9-Hour
(1) Matches, Strike Anywhere in Waterproof Match Case
(1) Tinder Bottle, Film Canister with Petrol Cotton

First Aid & Hygiene

(3) Bandages, Assorted Adhesive
(1) Hemostatic, QuikClot Sport
(3) Sanitation Wipes, Germ-X Singles
(1 pkt) Tissue, Travel Size
(1) Tourniquet, North American Rescue CAT

Food

(2) Emergency Ration, 1200 Calorie MayDay
(20) Fishing Hooks, Eagle #2
(110y) Fishing Line, 10# or 14# Trilene
(1) Spork, Light My Fire

Navigation & Signaling

(1) Flashlight, MagLite MiniMag AA
(4) Batteries, Energizer AA
(1) Headlamp, Coleman LED
(6) Batteries, Energizer AAA

Shelter

(1) Cap, Watch-Type 100% Wool (B)
(50f) ParaCord, 7-Strand 550
(1) Survival Blanket, Adventure Medical Kits 2 Person
(1) Survival Blanket, Generic
(1) Trash Bag, 1Mil 39 Gallon

Tools

(1) Knife - Large (Gary's Wife), SYKCO 511
(1) Sheath, Kydex
(1) Knife - Large (Gary), SRKW RMD
(1) Sheath, Kydex
(1) Knife Sharpener, Lansky Dog Bone

Water

(1) Canteen Cup, USGI
(1) Pre Filter, Bandana
(1) Water Purification Bottle, Berkey Sports
(1) Ziplock Bag, 1 Gallon Freezer


BUG OUT BELT

As stated before, this is a condensed version of the Bug-Out-Bag that can be worn at all times while in a "bug-out". It can be used alone, but is really intended to be used in conjunction with the Bug-Out-Bag.

Gear

(1) Belt, Padded MOLLE
(1) E&E Pouch, Medium GP
(1) Holster, Tactical Tailor Modular
(1) IFAK Pouch, Small Medic
(1) Hydration Pouch, Tactical Tailor Joey
(1) Magazine Pouch - Handgun, Triple
(1) Miscellaneous Pouch, 6"x4"
(1) Sheath, Spec-Ops Long Combat Master
(1) Shelter Pouch, 10"x6"
(1) Shelter Pouch, Large GP

Ammunition & Spare Magazines

(550) 22 Long Rifle Ammunition, Federal 36gr HVHP
(1) Storage Bottle, Nalgene 16oz
(4) Rifle Magazine (Wife only), Ruger 10rd

Fire Making (Stored In Red Zipper Pouch)

(1) Butane Lighter, Bic Classic
(1) Candle, UCO Emergency 9-Hour
(1) Ferro Rod, LMF Army Model
(1) Matches, Strike Anywhere in Waterproof Match Case
(2) Tinder Bottle, Film Canister with Petrol Cotton

First Aid & Hygiene

(1) Airway, Nasopharyngeal 28 with Lube
(3) Antibiotic Ointment
(6) Anti-Diarrhea, 2mg EXPIRES 1/13
(10) Bandages, Assorted Adhesive
(6) Benadryl, 25mg EXPIRES 2/14
(1) Burn Cream
(1) Compressed Gauze, H&H
(1) Compression Bandage, Israeli
(1) Floss, Travel Size
(4) Gauze, Sterile
(1) Hemostatic, QuikClot Combat Sponge
(1) Hydrocortisone Cream
(8) Ibuprofen, 200mg EXPIRES 1/13
(1) Insect Protection, Lotion
(1) Light Stick, Cyalume
(1) Moleskin
(3) Prep Pads, Alcohol
(3) Sanitation Wipes, Germ-X Singles
(1) Sunscreen, Lotion
(1) Tape, Adhesive Surgical 2"
(1) Tourniquet, North American Rescue CAT
(3) Wound Closure Strips, Butterfly

Food

(1) Emergency Ration, 3600 Calorie Mainstay
(20) Fishing Hooks, Eagle #2
(110y) Fishing Line, 10# or 14# Trilene

Navigation & Signaling

(1) Compass, Silva Starter
(1) Headlamp, Coleman LED
(6) Batteries, Energizer AAA
(1) Whistle, Generic

Shelter

(1) Cap, Watch-Type 100% Wool (B)
(100f) ParaCord, 7-Strand 550
(1) Poncho, USGI Ripstop (WD)
(1) Survival Blanket, Emergency Essentials
(1) Trash Bag, 1Mil 39 Gallon

Tools

(1) Can Opener, USGI P38
(10) Duct Tape, Wrapped on Business Card
(1) Knife - Large (Wife), SYKCO SOD
(1) Knife - Large (Gary), SRKW Chopweiler
(1) Knife - Small, SRWK Warden
(1) Sheath, Kydex
(1) Knife Sharpener (Gary Only), Stone
(1) Knife Sharpener, Lansky Dog Bone
(1) Knife Sharpener, Gerber Ceramic

Water

(1) Canteen Cup, USGI
(1) Emergency Water Filter, AquaMira Frontier
(1) Pre Filter, Bandana
(1) Water Bottle, Nalgene 32oz
(1) Water Filter, Katadyn Hiker
(1 btl) Water Purification Tablets, Portable Aqua
(4) Water Purification Tablets, Katadyn
(1) Ziplock Bag, 1 Gallon Freezer


BUG OUT BAG

This provides more consumables and comfort than the BO-Belt.

Gear

(1) Ruck, Tactical Tailor 3-Day Plus

Apparel, Miscellaneous

(1 pr) Gloves, USGI Leather

Apparel, Polypropylene (Store in Dry Sack)

(1) Polypropylene Balaclava, USGI ECWCS
(1) Polypropylene Pants, USGI ECWCS
(1) Polypropylene Shirt, USGI ECWCS

Apparel, Wet Weather

(1) Parka, USGI Gen3 Gore-Tex ECWCS
(1) Trousers, USGI Gen3 Gore-Tex ECWCS

Apparel, Wool (Store in Dry Sack)

(1 pr) Glove Liners, USGI Wool
(2 pr) Socks, All Weather Wool
(2 pr) Socks, Cold Weather Wool

Battery & Battery Charging (Gary Only)

(1) Solar Battery Charger, Silva Tech 4.0
(8) Rechargeable Batteries, Energizer AAA
(4) Rechargeable Batteries, Energizer AA

Fire

(2) Butane Lighter, Bic Classic
(1) Magnesium Bar with Hacksaw Blade, Doan
(4) Tinder Bottle, Film Canister with Petrol Cotton

Firearm Cleaning Kit

(2) Bore Brush, 5.56
(2) Bore Brush (Gary Only), 7.62
(1) Bore Brush, 9mm
(2bag) Bore Patch, 5.56
(1bag) Bore Patch (Gary Only), 7.62
(1) Chamber Brush, 5.56x45mm
(4oz) Lubricant, SLiP2000 Extreme Weapons Lube
(1) Receiver Brush, USGI
(1) Rifle Cleaning Rod, USGI 5pc with Patch Holder

Food - Fishing & Hunting

(550) 22 Long Rifle Ammunition, Federal 36gr HVHP
(1) Storage Bottle, Nalgene 16oz
(100+) Fishing Hooks, Assorted Sizes
(900Y) Fishing Line, Trilene Big Game 15#
(1) Fishing Lure Kit, Pan Fish

Food - Packaged

(4) Emergency Ration, 3600 Calorie Mainstay
(3) Food Preservation Bags, 1 Gallon Ziplock Freezer

Food - Preparation

(3 pc) Mess Kit, East German
(1) Cleaning Pad, Scotch Brite
(2) Utensils, Guyot Designs

Hygiene & Sanitation

(1) Comb (Gary)
(1) Dental Floss, Sample
(1 wk) Female Hygiene Products (Wife)
(1) Hair Band (Wife)
(1) Nail File
(12) Sanitation Wipes, Wet-Ones
(1 pkt) Tissue, Travel Size
(1) Toothbrush

Knives & Tools

(1) Duct Tape (Wrapped on Business Card)
(1 set) Playing Cards (Gary)

Navigation & Signaling

(1) Flashlight, MagLite MiniMag AA
(4) Batteries, Energizer AA

Shelter

(1) Bivy Bag (Store in Dry Sack), USGI MSS Gore-Tex
(1) Emergency Space Blanket
(1) Mosquito Head Net
(100f) ParaCord, 7-Strand 550
(1) Sleeping Bag (Store in Dry Sack - Wife), USGI MSS Patrol
(1) Sleeping Bag (Store in Dry Sack - Gary), USGI Ranger Blanket
(1) Trash Bag, 1Mil 39 Gallon

Water

(1) Water Bottle, Nalgene 32oz
(1) Ziplock Bag, 1 Gallon Freezer


FIREARMS

My wife's Bug-Out Guns

Handgun = Glock 19 with Night Sights and (5) 15rd magazines with a total of 75rds of 9mm.

Rifle = Ruger 10/22 Stainless with Leupold 2-7x33mm Scope and (4) 10rd magazines.

My Bug-Out Guns (ONE of the following rifles)

Handgun = Ruger Mk3 22LR with (4) 10rd magazines.

Max Reliability Rifle Option = Arsenal SGL21 (Russian made 7.62x39mm AK47) and (9) 30rd magazines with a total of 270rds of 7.62x39mm.
Max Reliability with Common Ammo Rifle Option = Arsenal SLR-106FR (Bulgarian made 5.56x45mm AK101) and (9) 30rd magazines with a total of 270rds of 5.56x45mm.
Default Rifle Option = Colt 6520 (16" lightweight barreled AR15A2) and (13) 30rd magazines with a total of 364rds of 5.56x45mm.
Heavy Rifle Option = DS Arms SA58 (18" Para FAL) and (9) 20rd magazines with a total of 180rds of 7.62x51mm.

NOTE: The rifle will be selected based upon the situation. My default is the Colt 6520, because its only 5.5 pounds and I can carry more ammo as a result.

Arch,
I appreciate how much thought you've put into your set up. The combo of a hunting rifle and defensive handgun, and defensive rifle and hunting handgun between two people is a great mix. As far as the ammo, with the ability to carry so much 22LR I can see why it is the supreme survival round. I've been looking into picking up a Mark III, I think I would prefer one of the models with a bull barrel and the slightly longer(6.88 inch) barrel. Do you have any preferences with the Mark III?
J

J,

STAINLESS STAINLESS STAINLESS!

The Mk2 and Mk3 are a royal pain to field strip, and Ruger's bluing doesn't resist rust well. Therefore, my first recommendation is BUY A STAINLESS MODEL.

Sorry to shout that out, but its critical.

I've owned quite a few different Mk2 and Mk3 models, and prefer the 6-7/8" Government Target. NOT the Competition Government Target (Slab Side).

The GT has a "tapered bull barrel" which yields a long sight radius due to the barrel length, but also weighs less than the full bull barrel or even slab-side models.

You will not see any real field accuracy differences between a full Bull and Tapered Bull.

The GT features adjustable sights that have a flaw (all Ruger Mk2 and Mk3 sights have this problem):

A pin that goes through the sight cross-wise will work its way out during extended use. The fix is simple: bend a "kink" in the pin and force it back in. It will never work loose again.

The stainless models are worth the extra pennies. I bought a blued 22/45 threaded barrel model because I couldn't justify paying another $300 for a Tac Sol threaded upper or paying to have the barrel threaded. I am putting a suppressor on mine and it will be a fun plinker instead of a survival weapon. But if survival is your key motive for buying a Ruger rimfire pistol, heed Arch's advice.

The cover of this morning's USA Today has an article that I think is important to consider. Taking into account the world's economic crisis - what do you think Americans are doing to ensure their future security? Do you think they are saving money or putting back supplies in case the crisis becomes septic? Do you think they're preparing for another depression?

No.

I'm going to attach the article, but here's a recap:

1) Consumers spent 93.1% of their post-tax income on goods and services in the third quarter.
2) Americans are now spending more on "Quality of Life" items than before. Examples include pet products, and spectator sports.
3) Americans are buying more "prestige" items.

Spending has INCREASED on:

* Games & Toys
* Computers
* Cable & Satellite TV Service
* Spectator Sports
* Amusement Parks
* Salons & Grooming
* Package Tours
* Eating Out
* Restaurant Meals with Alcohol
* Wine
* Hard Liquor

Spending has DECREASED on:

* Repairing appliances
* Repairing furniture
* Repairing clothes
* Repairing shoes
* Repairing vehicles

So, summarized, IN SPITE OF the current economic crisis people are NOT taking care of what they already own or stockpiling supplies. They are drinking, going to sporting events, eating out, and buying consumer crap.

Is it safe to say that those who are preparing will be BOMBARDED by those who wasted their money when something happens? I think yes. [color:"red"]These people are AVOIDING facing reality by playing with toys, going out like the financial future of our country is secure and drinking instead of facing the hard reality that our situation is getting WORSE not better!!![/color]

General society is NOT taking the current world wide economic crisis seriously.




What happens when WalMart runs out of bread, milk and eggs? What are the masses going to do?

Quote from article:

[color:"red"]"Consumers are rewarding merchants who entertain them, save them time and make them feel and look good now rather than later.

What's different: People are accumulating less stuff - houses, cars, lamps, clocks. This money was saved early in the economic downturn but is now flowing to services and small items that can immediately boost a person's happiness."[/color]

INSTANT GRATIFICATION without accumulation of REAL GOODS. That's how Americans are responding to the threat of a complete financial break down.

This bodes very poorly for those of us that are accumulating real goods - those items that satisfy the most basic of human needs: FOOD WATER SHELTER DEFENSE - because we will be viewed with scathing animosity by those who didn't prepare.

Does anyone remember the Aesop's fable "The grasshopper and the ant?

[color:" blue"]Once there lived an ant and a grasshopper in a grassy meadow.

All day long the ant would work hard, collecting grains of wheat from the farmer's field far away. She would hurry to the field every morning, as soon as it was light enough to see by, and toil back with a heavy grain of wheat balanced on her head. She would put the grain of wheat carefully away in her larder, and then hurry back to the field for another one. All day long she would work, without stop or rest, scurrying back and forth from the field, collecting the grains of wheat and storing them carefully in her larder.

The grasshopper would look at her and laugh. 'Why do you work so hard, dear ant?' he would say. 'Come, rest awhile, listen to my song. Summer is here, the days are long and bright. Why waste the sunshine in labour and toil?'

The ant would ignore him, and head bent, would just hurry to the field a little faster. This would make the grasshopper laugh even louder. 'What a silly little ant you are!' he would call after her. 'Come, come and dance with me! Forget about work! Enjoy the summer! Live a little!' And the grasshopper would hop away across the meadow, singing and dancing merrily.

Summer faded into autumn, and autumn turned into winter. The sun was hardly seen, and the days were short and grey, the nights long and dark. It became freezing cold, and snow began to fall.

The grasshopper didn't feel like singing any more. He was cold and hungry. He had nowhere to shelter from the snow, and nothing to eat. The meadow and the farmer's field were covered in snow, and there was no food to be had. 'Oh what shall I do? Where shall I go?' wailed the grasshopper. Suddenly he remembered the ant. 'Ah - I shall go to the ant and ask her for food and shelter!' declared the grasshopper, perking up. So off he went to the ant's house and knocked at her door. 'Hello ant!' he cried cheerfully. 'Here I am, to sing for you, as I warm myself by your fire, while you get me some food from that larder of yours!'

The ant looked at the grasshopper and said, 'All summer long I worked hard while you made fun of me, and sang and danced. You should have thought of winter then! Find somewhere else to sing, grasshopper! There is no warmth or food for you here!' And the ant shut the door in the grasshopper's face.

It is wise to worry about tomorrow today. [/color]

I bought 20 Cyalume glowsticks that showed up today. Toss a couple in each vehicle, a few in the work bag, a few in the BOB, a few in my office desk drawer.

They are good to mark a gate at night, a spot to turn off, all kinds of things.

I think I will make a point to toss them every year.


Let me see...I bought a pair of Mechanix gloves for the BOB as well.

Oh, I had Propper Multicam ACUs with nonvelcro pockets on the porch tonight. Coat/shirt fits as it should the pants are a bit large. I am going to keep them for cold weather layering and add a size smaller to my next order.

I wear a belt and a bit large works anyway.

imaginefj,

Your last post gave me an idea for a new thread....

By the way, Propper Multicam ACU's are my choice for warrior wear as well.

Arch and JJ,
Thanks for the info on the MK3, I'll be picking one up after the holiday season!
My christmas presents this year are gear that I need to fill out my BOB and survival gear in general. I also am working on inspiring my family to be prepared as well. Shouldn't be too hard since my dad is a scoutmaster.
J

Arch, Hey amigo is that a base under the Canteen Cup? If so what for and where did you get it? Thanks -Jason

Jason, I am not Arch, but that is a Canteen cook stove sort of thing. Turn it upside down fill it full of wood or something that will burn and you have a heater for your canteen cup cooking pot!

I don't remember exactly what they're called but try Canteen cooker.

Jason, here is a link that has several of the "Stoves"

Thanks Randy. I hope you had a Happy Thanksgiving. I"m beat and fixing to rack out thanks for the quick reply. -Jason

Ok, I guess I forgot the link!

http://www.buycheapr.com/us/result.jsp?ga=us6&q=canteen+cup+stand

Jason,

Randy is correct. They are USGI Canteen Cup Stoves. I use to see them for $5 locally, but all that I see now are poorly constructed Chinese repro's.

They work well if you have enough small twigs to keep a hot fire under the cup. They weigh virtually nothing and give you the option of a "low vis" fire.

I am just glad the pockets on the pants don't have velcro.

Arch was going through stuff and trying to put together my FAKS. I always add a tube of the single use Super Glue tubes you can buy in ten packs. I love to use that stuff to seal up cracks in my hands and it will hold a pretty decent size cut together.

Although this is a stand alone kit, you might use the contents list as a guide for your BOB or GHB.

http://offgridsurvival.com/30-things-you-should-have-in-your-medical-kits/

Just some more helpful tips.

http://graywolfsurvival.com/819/10-tips-how-to-pack-bugout-bag/

BigLapDog, that's a good suggestion. I know superglue is getting more use medically. Be cautious using it on a wound as you can seal in bacteria.

OK, THIS is the thread that I was wanting to bring back up to the top of the page.