I like both of these designs. My only comment on choils is if they exist, then they should be big enough to use. Not sure if mudder grips drive up costs, I suspect they may at least slightly. For that reason and in keeping with Dan's p to p concept, a regular size (like the size on the YKCG) res-c handle would be fine for me even though I agree the mudder grip is very nice. I would buy 2 of these if they came out, one for each of my boys when they get older of course <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />.