Thanks, newDOGma. It's that smooth contoured convex shape from spine to final edge that I strive for. That shape works. It just slashes, slices, and chops better than anything I have seen. I use Mike Stewart's techniques and he kindly gave me some pointers. It requires me to have concentration and yet be relaxed at the same time. Hundreds of strokes, all the same.........all day long..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />