I look at shooters more as Minute of Angle (MOA) capability. For instance, a +1 MOA shooter would be wasting their money on an expensive weapon. This type of shooter doesn’t shoot any better with an inexpensive firearm than with can a top of the line piece. They buy the best for bragging rights.

A 1 MOA guy, or average shooter, would gain a bit more accuracy and/or range with a better bullet launcher, but usually lack the time, drive, and cash to practice, practice, practice. Even with exceptional ability, without the practice they will always remain 1 MOA shooters.

When you get to ½ MOA, you can tell the difference between a middle of the pack weapon and a top of the line firearm. I would guess this is would be the limit that the vast majority of experienced shooter could hope to reach. And that they would be happy to be able to reach and maintain that level of proficiency. Uncle Sam afforded me the time and opportunity (and lots and lots of bullets) to reach this level.

I’ve only seen a few ¼ MOA guys and they are impressive. Not physically, they were mostly on the other side of the hill and a bit on the scrawny side, but they had mastered all the elements of the shooting world.

I met up with a ¼ MOA shooter on a rifle range once. He was an old Marine (has there ever been an ex-Marine?) and was paired up with him to shoot the match. He also happened to be the groundskeeper of the range. While he never said anything negative about my shooting, I’m sure he was shaking his head in the pits. When this guy started shooting the spindles out of the spotter disks while shooting offhand at 200 meters (100points/9X’s), I got an indication of his skill. This guy shot an old beat up M-1 Garand and had more X’s that the top two winners combined. He ended up shooting 449 out of 500 with five saved rounds. At 400 meters, shooting standing to sitting, he dropped his five rounds in the dirt and didn’t want to dirty his rifle. Tremendous shooter, and when I started talking to him after the match, everyone listened.

So would I want a top of the line firearm that could let me compete with that old Marine? Sure, but like most firearms, the top end of the scale weapons tend to outshoot their handlers. And I’d rather have a reliable rifle that I can beat the crap out of and still get 1 MOA out of than a delicate ¼ MOA rifle that requires babying.

Mastiff,
This is good another example of area of interest. Precision shooters and IDPA shooters value ... precision ... and speed more than anything else.


I gave up interest in precision shooting several years ago, because it wasn't "turning my crank". I have a friend that just picked up a WOA upper yesterday, because he likes all of the work that goes into precision shooting. I was talking to another friend, yesterday, that is going to buy a new skeet barrel this weekend. He's into skeet, trap, and sporting clays.

Lazy,
I understood what you were saying, and didn't think I had (overly) offended. My perspectives are based upon 30 years of INTENSE ownership and shooting, and my needs are different than everyone else's. Most people don't have the number of rounds down range or number of formerly owned guns that I do. For example, when you've owned DOZENS of AR15s you form strong opinions. Again, this isn't meant to cast judgement or being disparaging toward anyone's opinion / choice / whatever. Its an opportunity to learn from someone who's already spent copious amounts of time and money finding out what you will likely figure out if you're as committed as me....without having to spend the time and money.

The shooting sports are nice because you have so many facets to invest your time and dollars into.

precision and speed, respectively

I for one always value the opinion of someone who's been there and done that. Why should I waste limited resources like money and time just to discover what hundreds of people have already discovered.

And while everyone has opinions, I value the opinion of the guy that's "owned DOZENS of AR15s" over the guy that wants you to get brand XXX because that's the ONE he's familiar with.

Mastiff,
Thanks. That's what I was trying to convey.

Experince is always invaluable!

I appreciate experience. I really appreciate it when those with that experience are willing to share their findings with others.

I found and purchased two 22rd 40 cal glock mags today... Not for carry but since my get home gun is currently my glock it seemed like a good idea

OK, I said earlier I think I am gonna get my CCW. I Like Sigs (I've had 4 and still have 2, a P220 and a P225). I would like a .45acp to carry. I've found three Sigs that MIGHT make the list as a compact carry gun.

1. Sig P220R
2. Sig P227
3. Sig P250

Of the Three, which would Y'all recommend? OR what other gun, make/model for compact CCW?

MIKE, MAKE SURE THEY WORK!!!!! I once bought a SIG P220 15 round magazine for my P220 45 and It WAS NOT RELIABLE!

Walked into a shop today that was clearing out used guns from another store in another state. Had bunch a for $99. Mostly a bunch of single shots and shotguns.

I went in hoping to get a $100 H&R rifle to hopefully get my cousins shooting and hunting. Ended up getting a Marlin 336 with a Burris 3-9x32 scope for $240. Dated the gun and it's pretty clean for a 1977 rifle. I was hoping it was a 1975 but you really couldn't tell it was 30+ from the looks of it. I just saw the JM and no safety and figured I'd try it. It has a few Knicks and dings but nothing major on the wood and the metal surprisingly clean. Action is sold but I don't think this rifle saw a whole lot of rounds through it at all. Most likely bumped around a closet a good bit. Whoever sold it had it put away clean.

There was some good deals on shotgun that's for sure. I saw a like new youth model 870 go out the door for $100. Wish I had seen that one but I may go back and look again for a turkey shotgun.

Nice! What's the difference between a '77 and '75 336?