This is a great thread! It, by it's very nature is something that does have in impact on ALL of us. The natural course of discussion from strictly food (production/procurement and sustainability) to the degradation of society is a normal course for this, and IS something that needs discussed.

Like Andy, I, in my normal course of providing a living for myself and my wife deal with the dregs of society routinely. Now I don't have to put up with what those in a larger metropolitan area do (at least not often), but I do still see what mankind will digress to in a somewhat normal world and that leads me to KNOW BEYOND ALL DOUBT what some will do when there is no law except what a person can provide for themselves.

Greaser, remember seeds must be stored a certain way or their ability to sprout decreases.

Seeds bought at the store in those paper packets will start failing about two years of being stored in an "airtight" ziplock bag with minimal exposure to light. We've been experimenting with storage and seed effecancy for the past 10 years. It is best to vaccum seal the seeds in a moisture dead environment and then place the VS bags inside another container that permits zero light transmission. Store as cool as possible.

Fortunately, many local stores are starting to sell Organic and non-GMO seeds. Walmart, Menard's, Lowe's, and Tractor Supply all carry them now. Be aware that the new hybrid organic varieties are NOT good for seed saving. Hybridization creates a wildcard plant from the saved seed. DO NOT SEED SAVE HYBRID SEEDS.

This year we're experimenting with growing in earth boxes. This is our first year so we don't know if this is a sustainable solution for those with limited growing space. The EB yields are suppose to be immense, but EB require the additional of certain all natural highly specific fertilizers. We will determine (over time) if the fertizers are shelf stable and the EB option viable for long term food production after a situation wherein regular commerce is disrupted (i.e. Cannot buy the fertilizer).

We also joined a local organic CSA. Our share will likely be eaten fresh while our EB production will be dedicated to preservation (canning). If we find a specifically useful veg from the CSA will buy into more of that particular veg next year (along with our regular share). Supporting an organic CSA is a systemic method of combating food imports, domestic GMO, and the general fragile "1000 food miles" system. NOTE: it has been stated most food travels about 1000 miles before it reaches your table.

What kind of place did Y'all move to Gary? House/suburban area or more conventional apartment/condo?

A note on imported foods:

Unfortunately we have been buying imported products with increasing frequency. This obviously is an enormous philosophical issue for us as we're personally knowledgable about this issues. HOWEVER, it also places pressure on American companies to provide products we want. For example, we only buy orangic (usually domestic) and imported cheese. Why imported? All of the Irish cheeses we buy are produced from 100% free range grass fed cows. Their milk is as nature intended. Further, many European countries have prohibitions on GMO, hormone, anti-biotic use, etc.

My wife spends a great deal of time researching and vetting a specific company and product prior to our purchase. However, we often become reliable and dedicated customers once we find the "right products".

This isn't a solution to long term production and preservation, but it is another battle in the food wars. Everyone of us is responsible for forcing domestic (doesn't matter what country your from) suppliers and producers to provide the products we demand. This battle is a financial one. Don't spend your food dollars on the cheapest option. Buy the best option for you (notice I didn't say the most expensive. We all have differing financial situations and make decisions accordingly. However, food is not a place to save budget dollars).

Since My blood sugar went nutso a few months back we have tried to buy/eat better. We are buying a few organic items (not all that many around here, at least until the farmers markets get up and running) and it ain't easy. When you've eaten for convenience all your life, changing is REAL hard.

1/2 acre in a very nice suburban subdivision.

I mention the "very nice" portion because this provides security in peace time and danger in a collapse. The following isn't meant to be perceived as bragging, but is designed as "food for thought" (pun intended)....

Our house is on a semi private "loop" (one way in and one way out). The HOA is EXTREMELY proactive (you receive notice if your automatic yard light isn't working or if your trash cans aren't taken into your garage the evening of trash pick up or if a vehicle parks on the street in front of your house instead of the driveway). The HOA also has a 12 person team that walks the 7 miles of roads late at night. The public lakes (owners / members of the HOA have access ... Not the public at large) are watched and patrolled by a five member "shore watch". Now this all sounds great, but we're talking about volunteers (retirees, stay at home moms, etc). We pay the local Sherrif's Department to provide two Deputies on Halloween. We stock the lakes so a food and water source is available in a crisis. The subdivision is slightly outside of town.

Overall, it is a very safe place to live. IN PEACE TIME.

The downsides are:

1) The population density is extremely high. We have over 1200 people living along 7 miles of road. (I believe the minimum lot is 3/16 acre and I have one of the largest). This will deplete resources (lake fish) quickly. Hungry people are scary people. Contemporary American homes are not securely built.

2) We will be a target for looters. However, I've already observed a number of home owners with firearms in our short time here. We have a hunter across the street, two AR15 owners within 8 houses of ours, a retired Army Ranger (retired LTC with a sophisticated security system) across the street, and another Hunter within 12 houses. This was all observed without broaching the topic of a mutual neighborhood defense. The stark reality is this won't matter once people get hungry.

3) We have enough land to produce more than enough food for us. However, the covenants prohibit visible in ground gardens and animals. Therefore, we'd have to cultivate virgin soil in a crisis. This is very challenging (especially while trying to defend against hundreds of hungry sheeple neighbors and outside looters). We're building an earth box garden as a result. We will also add a semi-commercial grade green house in a few years (if I can get approval from the building review committee...and based upon my vocation I'm fairly confident ).

The reality is this isn't a sustainable location unless enough like minded individuals cooperate to create mutual defense and labor sharing force. See my early comments about kumbaya...

We all face the food challenge. Your local Walmart is likely carrying organic foods now. Be sure to ask detailed questions of your suppliers at farm markets. Ask about fertilizer use, etc.

We've all subcomb to the convenience food trap. It's easy to stop at a drive thru on the way home or to order a pizza. This is alright OCCASIONALLY if you chose well (Jason's Delis, Moe's, etc are chains that have healthier options and even "good" options if you discount the hidden calories and processed food component). The idea is to win the war knowing you'll lose a few battles.

We try to have some healthy "easy comfort foods" available at home. This includes a couple of organic frozen pizzas (we use to order them thru Azure Standard but they're now available in most frozen food sections), a box of organic poptarts, etc. These products aren't the normal fare - they are special treats for occasional use.

Many people think they don't have time to eat properly. If anyone is reading this, and feels that way you need to re-evaluate your life. Your priorities are very skewed. Up until the mid 20th century most of a person's time was spent in the pursuit of and preparation of food. Food is the single most important item on your daily agenda. Plan your life around your meals and you'll find a whole new appreciation for life.

I'm happy to hear you haven't abandoned the "Land Owner" lifestyle completely (ie. apartment/condo). I AM saddened though that you can't have a garden (did I read that correct?) or IF you build a fence you can garden?

Personally I detest Home Owner Associations, as I feel they are to restrictive as to what you can do with YOUR property. Then again I'm not prone to Trashing our place. (We have a small BBQ and the trash can beside the house and I think that is kinda messy).

Anywho, best of luck to you and your Bride and perhaps when you are my age you CAN have the place you want and still be healthy enough to manage it.

You are correct about Wally world, the ones near here are going more organic.

PLUS Patty "Discovered" a store about a month and a half ago called Schnucks. It is a slightly higher "Class" grocery and they have a lot more organic and other "Better for you Food" We plan on doing more shopping there.

Well my relief is here so I am outta here. I will be back on sometime today.

As a note: I at the office a minimum of 10 hours a day. A 14 hour day isn't terribly uncommon.

We still manage an amazing food life.

If you're married (and especially if you have children) you have to develop a team strategy toward food. My wife likes to eat (and somehow stays at about 115 pounds) so our road was easier than someone who for example hates to cook. However, we use food as "family time". This has many facets:

I come home for lunch to a delicious freshly prepared salad every day;

We talk about meal planning and discuss food in a fun way;

She reads about food and shares her findings with me;

We often un-plant our bottoms from in front of the idiot box and spend time exploring the food isles together (more organic products are showing up everyday);

We bought a house with a kitchen designed for people who like to cook and eat. We spend time in it together. This may be me sitting and talking or doing something else but we're together making it less of a chore;

At times we cook together;

I try to help with clean up to help promote a healthy marriage and food atmosphere;

We plan trips around food;

We attend farm markets, lectures, and farm visits together;

We share food information with anyone that will listen;

So forth.

I bring this up to illustrate food isn't only about nourishment. Food is the cornerstone of life, society, and family.

Yes, the Schnucks family is committed to the organic movement. They were one of the first family owned groceries to do so. Their prices have decreased significantly in recent years.

I forgot to mention:

Target (Greatland and Super scale stores) have a fairly robust organic and non-GMO food selection.

We've been "organic" for the better part of a decade. This isn't a "cheap" option, but we chose to do it because of our knowledge of traditional ag practices. "How much is your life worth?". Cancer, obesity, diabetes, etc.

HOWEVER, for those getting started on a healthy food path always look for the "NON-GMO" label. This is a growing movement we have to support if we want to have freely available food for the generations to come.

Yes I sound like a preacher...it is Sunday.