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Re: Looking for Scope Thoughts [Re: DogTired] #1044603 03/05/20 07:38 PM
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Endeavour Morse Offline
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It wouldn't surprise me if several members on this forum have $20,000 or more in knives.

ETA: I only have a handful of knives and they're all Busse/kin (save for a couple of folders ... of which I am well known for being an ardent "non fan").

Last edited by Endeavour Morse; 03/05/20 07:39 PM.

JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and itís 1969.





Re: Looking for Scope Thoughts [Re: DogTired] #1044606 03/05/20 07:46 PM
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Endeavour Morse Offline
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Case in point ... when I bought my Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP it was $750. I was totally disappointed in the optical quality past 12x. I should have spent another $750 as now I'm stuck with a scope that I've never and will never take to the range ... and now sells for $500 online.

I admit: optics are tough to splurge upon. I remember paying over $2,000 for my US Optics and thinking ... what am I doing? However, at teh time they were the best option for a LPVO. When I sold it several years later I lost about $150 in spite of being using (on a SCAR no less ... known for damaging optics ... ). My Aimpoints have lost around $100-150 of value but they're RDS. Think about the value of your TV or Computer vs what you paid. My ACOGs have probably lost $150-175 of value but they have tritium which dies over time.

All told, the value of higher end optics will decrease the moment you buy it .. but because it is higher end it won't be nearly worthless (like many lower priced options). I have a safe filled with Vortex (most still in the box) that I've had a hard time giving away (30% below what I paid ... new in box).

There will always be a market for cheap stuff. People are like that.
There will always be a market for top tier stuff.

The difference is the value the item offered the original owner and the value it retained when it came time to sell it.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and itís 1969.





Re: Looking for Scope Thoughts [Re: DogTired] #1044608 03/05/20 07:48 PM
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Gary, you call yourself a gun snob. To ME, gun snobs are those who MAKE SURE you know they are THE expert in what ever you are talking about. YOU, my friend, have been there and done that, and you DO NOT brag about it. You only talk about what you KNOW to be fact. And if for some reason you determine your thoughts are no longer factual, you tell us that.

So you ARE NOT a gun snob, just someone that is trying to save us from making the mistake(s) you did thereby saving us hundreds or thousands of dollars. I for one thank you for all this insight you post here. I have learned so much from your posts I don't think I'll live long enough to pass all that information along.

Last edited by SkunkHunter; 03/05/20 07:51 PM.

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Re: Looking for Scope Thoughts [Re: DogTired] #1044617 03/05/20 08:47 PM
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Endeavour Morse Offline
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Thanks Randy.

As you say, my goal is to help others make informed decisions. I've made plenty of poor choices so hopefully someone here can learn from them.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and itís 1969.





Re: Looking for Scope Thoughts [Re: DogTired] #1044619 03/05/20 08:59 PM
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My primary arms 1x6 is one of my good ones! hah! The reticle is awfully cool though and the group of 556 I posted a couple weeks ago was shot with that. I just wish I had gotten the FFP version although my biggest problem is more my 51 yr old eyes

But like you said it's priorities...selling some knives (and stopping buying more) would get me into higher quality glass. I write that as I was plotting earlier about the next WInkler fixed blade I want.


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"I came here for the knives and stayed for the people."
Re: Looking for Scope Thoughts [Re: DogTired] #1044621 03/05/20 09:01 PM
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Endeavour Morse Offline
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Relevant to the conversation ...

Today I took four ARs to the range with the following optics:

ACOG TA47 2x Green Cross
Aimpoint T-2
Aimpoint CompM4
Aimpoint CompM4S

Based upon what I paid, that was around $2,700 in optics plus the four LaRue mounts (only mount I'll use).

The crystal clear glass on the ACOG still makes me smile (bought my first ACOG in 1994 .... ) and the crisp dot on the AP's (coupled with insane battery life) always help me shoot nice groups.

Today I was confirming 50 / 200 zeros (zero at 50 on paper, and then ring steel at 200 ... POI is very similar on a 50/200 BZ). With old Wolf steel case 55 grain I was shooting 1" groups with the RDS, and hitting an 8" plate 100% of the time (rapid fire) at 200 yards.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and itís 1969.





Re: Looking for Scope Thoughts [Re: RN] #1044622 03/05/20 09:04 PM
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Endeavour Morse Offline
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Originally Posted by RN
My primary arms 1x6 is one of my good ones! hah! The reticle is awfully cool though and the group of 556 I posted a couple weeks ago was shot with that. I just wish I had gotten the FFP version although my biggest problem is more my 51 yr old eyes

But like you said it's priorities...selling some knives (and stopping buying more) would get me into higher quality glass. I write that as I was plotting earlier about the next WInkler fixed blade I want.


I hope you don't take my comments as offensive or rude. They come from the opposite intention.

Prioritization is something we mere financially mortal people have to contend.

The real intention of my comments is to prevent people from making "rash" lower grade purchases before really considering saving longer and buying better.

It took me a lot of years to finally buy a Busse knife. I had a drawer filled with lesser knives, but after that first one I saw the light and the rest had to go.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and itís 1969.





Re: Looking for Scope Thoughts [Re: DogTired] #1044623 03/05/20 09:14 PM
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Endeavour Morse Offline
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CLARIFICATION

For the vast majority of gun owners a PSA AR would be more than adequate. The same applies to Vortex and PA optics. However, if you're here ... you've demonstrated an interest in having the best gear. Therefore, firearms mediocrity may not apply to you.

Are there diminishing returns on the cost-to-performance of all of our "gear"? Yes, absolutely.

Here are some personal examples ...

1) To me, the CTP is in favor of SR101 over INFI. This is based upon having owned around 125 Busse/kin and a lot of personal testing.
2) To me, paying $1000 for an ACOG vs $300 for a 3x fixed Vortex is in favor of the ACOG. While Vortex has a bombproof warranty ... they don't have a bombproof optic. I've watched a person remove his ACOG, drive a nail into seasoned wood, remount it on his rifle and shoot the exact same POI at 100 yards. For me the CTP of the "end of days" durability makes the ACOG worthwhile.

It really comes down to your personal priorities.

If you're just going to the "back 40" twice a year to shoot beer cans and dirt clods (without even considering a zombie invasion ... there you go Randy ... puke) why spend $2000 on a rifle and $1000 on an optic? PSA makes great dirt clod guns for around $500 and $175 gets you a nice Vortex RDS.

If you're just going to cut open letters and the occasional cardboard box do you really need a $600 Busse? No.

Of course there is the want vs need paradigm to consider as well.


Last edited by Endeavour Morse; 03/05/20 09:15 PM.

JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and itís 1969.





Re: Looking for Scope Thoughts [Re: DogTired] #1044627 03/05/20 09:39 PM
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Your Post was VERY well thought out and stated. Oh and I found you some more Zombie "Stuff". I'll mail it right out, I know you just can't wait.


Duty and Honor demands that You have to go in, but
not that you have to come out.
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Re: Looking for Scope Thoughts [Re: DogTired] #1044630 03/05/20 09:54 PM
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For me. I didnít really get the whole optics thing till I started shooting competitively. Then it clicked while doing rapid CQB style shooting, rapid target transitions near to far. Acquiring targets across valleys 300-500yds away in high grass in sunlight, indirect sun light and shade that optic clarity matters more than your zoom ratio. Having a reticle that makes sense to the end user is critical and it better hold up and hold zero getting knocked off barricades, banged off cars, dropped over walls and whatever hell its going to go through. If Something happened and I had to sell a bunch of optics I know that as long as I had a solid LPVO and a solid long range optic in good mounts I could make do.


Any day I'm above the grass and I'm not a zombie is a good day! JYD#138

Re: Looking for Scope Thoughts [Re: DogTired] #1044631 03/05/20 09:57 PM
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Yeah a 50-200 zero on a good red dot can do some work. Used my aimpoint our to 200yds on 4 in plates all the time in competition before I switched to an LPVO.

Iím also not a big fan of the primary arms optics. Know a lot of guys that have them but I feel they are repackaged strike eagles lol


Any day I'm above the grass and I'm not a zombie is a good day! JYD#138

Re: Looking for Scope Thoughts [Re: DogTired] #1044646 03/05/20 11:32 PM
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Endeavour Morse Offline
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I had a 1-8 Strike Eagle (sold it recently) and the glass was much better than the PA. Maybe PA gets the rebranded QA/QC rejects.

I was shooting a dual-fuel (fiber and tritium) Green Cross ACOG today, and had to cover the fiber in the sun to keep it from blooming too much. This is only an issue with the cross reticles. I've never had it happen on the chevron, horseshoe, or dot.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and itís 1969.





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