I agree with HD I'll pass They may be made of INFI but.....just don't see the price to value.

Busses are high, but INFI makes sense in a hard use survival knife. If you compare Busse to other high end knives, they are not that much more. Lately I seem to favor the Swamp Rats in the small to medium sizes.

As you mentioned, INFI is not stainless.

Generally, steel is considered stainless if it has at least 13% chromium.

INFI has about 8.25% chromium.

INFI is just more stain resistant than:
SR101 at about 1.3% - 1.6% chromium
and SR77 at about 3.25% chromium.

But, I agree, even though INFI is not a true stainless, and even though INFI will rust, it seems to be much easier to maintain and keep rust free than SR101 and SR77.

SR101 will rust quite easily, but the following steels will rust more readily than SR101. They seem to rust if you give them a funny look:

1095 - 0% chromium
0-1 - at about 0.4% - 0.6% chromium
W1 & W2 - at about 0.15% chromium
L6 - at about .6% - 1.2% chromium
5160 - at about .7% - .9% chromium
0170-6 - at about .54% chromium (Carbon V, 50100B and 0170-6 are all about the same!)


But, if heat treated properly, all of the above are generally tougher than pretty much any stainless steel.

I personally tend to avoid most knives using the above steels because I like satin blades and I hate rust. However, for a knife with a blade length over 12", it seems L6 and 0170-6 would make great choices (along with SR77!!! - for say a Scrap Yard Wakizashi! -



- Bring IT!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> )

The Bark River Golok and Northwind are made of 0170-6.

However, INFI is obviously extremely tough even at longer lengths and taking extreme abuse. The AK47 for example. And INFI is MUCH less prone to rust than the above low chromium steels.

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I have been reasonably happy with various stainless steels. It is hard to put them in an exact order of preference. Some stainless steels are more brittle than others and their properties vary in toughness, edge holding, ease of sharpening, etc. So, to me, style and size of knife would be VERY relevant in deciding on choice of steel. And often, the compromises in properties and steel characteristics can off-set each other.

However, "generally", I prefer stainless steels on smaller knives - maybe 5.5" blades or smaller. At that point, most of these steels are tough enough for how I use knives under 5.5" blades.

If I knew a knife blade would be specifically designed for cutting and not for chopping, I would probably lean towards the following order (* with some room for change):


VG10
S30V
BG-42
Sandvik 12C27
ATS-34
154-CM
AUS-8
D2 - at about 11% - 13% chromium - it is often not considered stainless
AUS-6
440C


* I have never used or owned ZDP-189, but from what I have read it makes a great knife steel. Based on what I have read, I wouldn't be surprised if ZDP ranked in my top 2 or 3 stainless steels.

* Same with a few other steels that I have heard and read good things about, but I have never used - Including, but probably not limited to: RWL-34, ATS-55, CPM-440V (aka S60V), AUS-10, N-690 (I own a couple pieces of N690, but have not used).


*** Lots of potentially good steels out there. Heat treatment, design and quality start to be larger choice factors for me!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

.

Yep....

Love that knife....

Oh Dan....... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yea Dan..You looking at this thread??

That thing SCREAMS Zombie Killer!!!

I generally tend to agree - especially for my uses and price justification. However, I can also agree and appreciate what HD just said:

HD: quote: "Busses are high, but INFI makes sense in a hard use survival knife. If you compare Busse to other high end knives, they are not that much more. Lately I seem to favor the Swamp Rats in the small to medium sizes."

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There are those out there whose lives can depend very much on the ability of a given knife. Sometimes that extra 5% - 10% of toughness, edge holding or corrosion resistance is enough to justify $100's more. To each his own.


For my purposes, I am VERY confident that either SR77 or SR101 is MORE than sufficient for their given uses. I tend to feel compared to each other, SR77 has an advantage for larger blades and SR101 generally has an advantage for smaller blades. That said, SR77 is still "good" for small blades - probably not the best, but good. SR101 is quite good for a large blade and yet most likely better than SR77 for a small blade. SR101 is not even likely to be my favorite steel for a small blade, but it is quite good.
Again, style and shape of the knife are large factors for me.

Generally, if given a choice, I would probably lean towards some of the high end stainless steels for blades under 5" or so.

That said, I just bought an AD with a 3.5" blade and paid $202 including shipping. That is a LOT for me for a 3.5" bladed knife and I DANG sure shouldn't be spending any money on a knife right now let alone $200, but I like the style of the knife and unfortunately I know that I had to jump on it now for $200 or pay $250+ later or never have one.

I can buy Bark River knives with 3.5" - 5" blades made with Excellent quality A2 or 12C27 all day long for $100 - $140.

Honestly, if I had to recommend a 3.5" - 5" blade knife to a friend who wants a very good hard use knife, I would probably have to recommend one of many Bark River options or the Swamp Rat HRLM or Ratmandu. Mike Stewart's treatment on A2 vs. Swamp Rat in SR101 are both options I could feel very comfortable betting my life on - at least compared to the options.

However, if I were to recommend a 6" - 10" blade knife to a friend who may very likely depend on the knife for his life - say going to war or extreme survival situation, I would probably recommend he pony up for a Busse. If that were not an option because of price, I would recomend Scrap Yard followed by Swamp Rat for the larger knives. Because of price, I think Scrap Yard has Swamp Rat beat in the larger knife department. - unless you have to have micarta or G10(???).

Again, intended use, style and function play a significant factor in the decision.

As a user and a collector, I tend to have some of all of the above. But, the INFI blades continue to be hard for me to pay for.

If my life were to depend on it, I would likely have much fewer knives than I do, but probably more Busse knives!

Since my life doesn't depend on it and since my budget doesn't justify Busse (or at least VERY seldom), then VERY good is likely good enough for all my intended uses.

If Swamp Rat were to release a blade very similar to the AD for $70 - $80 less, I would probably have to consider selling my AD.

.

i like 12c27. my little barkie turned into a laser cutter after stropping it

Mike does wonders with the steel used on Barkies. I have had the same experience Vance.

440C 440C 440C 440C definitely.
I like 440C because it is tough very stainless ,takes a wicked polish and gives a great cost versus performance ratio. 440C was originally designed for jet engine rotors. It is cheaper than the high end steels mostly because it is made in much larger quantities. Also it is well established how to get the most out of the heat treat.

The AAS is an awesome piece of infi because it is a size you can carry with you daily. I usually carry my beloved SS4 in my pack because the handle is to thick for my pants. An AAS with the skelly handle and a pocket shaped sheath with a clip would be as handy as a folder.