Send them to GITMO?

Paul, health care in this country is available, it just isn't free. Because we take a capitalist approach to medicine we have some of the best medical treatment available in the world. Yes, we have our problems and issues but I'll put it up against any other nations any day of the week.

The problem here in America is the cost of health care. I was hospitalized for 36 hours a few years ago when I had mono. I didn't receive any special treatment aside from bringing my potassium levels back up to normal because of dehydration, and a visit or two from a specalist. The bill to my insurance company was $32,000.00.

About two years after that I had some outpatient surgery done. I had a lump in my breast as a result of a condition called gynocomastia. It was uncomfortable but by no means life threatening. In countries with socialized medicine I doubt I would have had the procedure. Here in America I was able to get it removed to the tune of $14,000.00. Luckily, my insurance policy at the time was wonderful.

The problem isn't our insurance system. Despite its problems it's not bad. The problem is our medical system as a whole. In order to stay afloat it needs to charge people like me with insurance exorbant amounts to cover those who don't have insurance and have diffuculty paying it back.

The real problem at hand is why is spending on medicine so out of this world?

If the masses want to socialize medicine then socialize the medicine for every American and tax everybody accordingly. Instead what's proposed is a system whereby those of us who are at the higher end of the spectrum will fund and support those at the lower end. So a group of people will be given a privalege, and those funding the privaledge will not be afforded the same.

We should just make drug communities or colonies where people can get all strung out and do whatever they want, without effecting myself or my family... Lets not pretend that we'd just have a whole lot of responsible drug users that don't impact those who are going about their daily lives. Imagine trying to go to the mall if you had a bunch of tweekers and trippers running all over the place instead of "hiding out" like they do now...

I don't want to argue though, officially, just my opinion.

Just from a pure financial standpoint legalizing drugs could both save a huge amount of money on jails(70% are in directly from drug charges)law enforcement and
the incidental costs like crime and theft but on top of that there would be a HUGE
surplus of cash from the taxes collected.

By saying no to legalizing drugs you are saying no to an enormous tax cut.


I am not a bleeding heart who wants to save all the useless and dangerous scum on the street. If it was up to me I would turn them into soylent green but that is not really an option. Ideally I want to pay them NOT to have children they neglect and abuse and both give them a chance to change their life or at the very least have their empty existence have the least possible negative effect on society.


iT ALL COMES DOWN TO RESPONSIBILITY!

If you are a person who can take responsibility for their own actions you should be left alone to live your life whether that means owning guns practicing your religion or doing drugs. When you have shown beyond doubt that you cannot be trusted to be a responsible person you should lose some of the rights that come with being a functioning adult in our society.

If you give birth to a child damaged by fetal alcohol syndrome you should not have the same rights over that child as a mother who has not been so irresponsible as to hurt their unborn baby.

In he Netherlands, I believe drugs are legal. I have read addicts litter the streets of Amsterdam, just nodding off. I used to shoot pool at the Clark and Diversy Billiard Academy in Chicago. The pool room was located in the basement of the building. As one descended the steps, you more or less had to side step the junkies sprawled out on the steps. These were young people. Just kids for the most part. They're lives ruined.

As America morals continue to decline, I would rather address the causes of the problem rather than legalizing the behavior.

Glad you liked it HD.

I still think legalizing drugs, or at the very least decriminalizing possession would save a lot of jail space and and just maybe save the taxpayers some money. It's worth a try. What we are doing now sure isn't working. I don't think it will cure drug addiction, but it might reduce the cost to the rest of us. I have two teenage daughters. They tell me drugs are rampant at their high school. It worries me. So far, they have stayed away from drugs and lost friends in the process. Maybe I'm doing something right or maybe they are just naturally opposed to being "stoners" as they call the druggies nowadays.

As far as universal tax-supported health insurance, why do some Americans pay for it and not get it while others get it and not pay for it? Either make it available to all or to none. And get the illegal aliens out of the country and secure the borders or they would bankrupt the healthcare system. We are already spending more on health care than most nations that have national health care.

The only problem I see with this, is that it seems kinda late to try and shut the barn door once the horses are out. If drugs were legal, I would think that all hell would break loose, as people who were perhaps too scared to try it before, due to attaining a criminal record, would no longer need to resist the urge. By the time they do something that proves they are not responsible, someone may be dead, or a life ruined due to no fault of their own. I honestly have always wanted to try and get a little high, or just "feel" good, but the fear of getting caught (cause if it were to happen to anyone, it would be me) and having a permanent spot on my record, plus risking enjoying it too much, and choosing it over my family. I just do not see it worth it. I can easily enjoy the rest of my life with the safe things that make me happy. Luckily having a beautiful wife is not a crime! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I think guns are different due to using guns for fun does not put you in a state of confusion, unawareness, or violent behavior. Plus, guns are a necessity for personal protection. They are not just for personal enjoyment.

You have to look at things this way. As people who do the work see the people who are not doing the work, getting paid by the government, and at the end of the day, the hard worker makes the same amount as the welfare recipient, it will not take long for the hard worker to say "Heck with this, gimmie gimmie". Now this system will continue to work, until you get to a crucial point. Eventually the system will be split 50/50. When it tips to where the takers are at 51%, then what? Yeah everything is fine as long as there is enough money to pump into the machine.

Course they can always raise taxes, and tax the working Joe more. Although, once you get to 100% taxes, well, you kinda can't go any further.

Just got to remember, the free stuff gets handed out, only as long as enough people work.

I hesitate posting on these types of topics (especially in the Yard) since controversy is not really something I need more of in my life, but this topic hits home with me so...

In 2002 my brother was shot in the back of the head with a stolen .357 by a meth addict who was a felon. My brother was a meth addict and was wrapped up in the meth underworld amazingly enough at the age of 18. He became addicted at the age of 14 so he told me one night after OD’ing in the emergency room. The police ended up ruling the incident a suicide and dismissing the entire situation. This is a whole different story I will not bore you with. I have pondered for many a night about where to place the blame, it always ends up square on him.

I became involved with the people on the scene and eventually got information from those that were there and word from “the street” that he was indeed shot by another person and with some pressure a name was dropped. This person ended up hanging himself several months later. My feelings towards the hanging are probably left best with me. The destruction and devastation that this particular drug causes is unbelievable. I will leave out the drama that transpired between me and his "friends", but suffice it to say that the damage and crime that trickles down to society as a result of addiction is overwhelming.

My own situation boiled down to me having to tell my brother or any of his “friends” (most of whom were either small time dealers, fraud specialists, gang members and or felons) that if they came around my house or any of my family members there would be severe consequences. This was a sad day in my life, but my own wife, kids and parents took precedence over my own brother since at some point in his addiction, I viewed him as essentially fubar. My family had exhausted every possible means of assistance. My father ended up taking the brunt of the dealing with my brother and his cohorts. Fortunately, he is a tough man who was able to deal with the violence that came his way with some help from me and other good people, law enforcement and the like.

Our current “war on drugs" is obviously not working. The drug problem at least in the U.S. as I see it is a multi-faceted problem that requires a muiti-pronged approach to solve. To throw money at interdiction, law enforcement and treatment individually with very little coordination between the entities that carry out these activities is fruitless at best. A coordinated approach is needed to solve this complex problem.

The power and money that comes from the fact that drugs are illegal is the fuel that feeds the fire for these vermin, and I unfortunately must include my brother in this bucket once he was a true addict, is far too great. The legalization of drugs is something that my dad and I argue about to this day and I am not sure what the right answer is, but I do know that our current system ineffective.

The idea that one can escape to the suburbs and escape the drug problem is long gone. The idea that addiction is something that should not be discussed because of embarrassment with one’s family is unproductive. The idea that we can beat the drug problem in to submission with brute force is wrong. The idea that treatment is the panacea is wrong. Addicts can only be treated if they want to be treated. I can only hope that the someday the masses will be concerned as much about the drug problem and potential solutions in this country as they are about Britney Spears.

The next chapter in my ramblings gets a bit more controversial than I am in the mood for right now, so I will leave it here.

thanks for sharing that bro, you never do that and I'm glad you spoke your mind on a topic so important my friend...

There is nothing I can say that Jeepsrock has not done a much better job of.

Takmar it seems like the reason you want things to stay the same is a fear of things getting worse. That is not what is going to happen. We know that because of places where they have tried it. They do have a lot of addicts in the Netherlands but they have a lot less kids getting hooked now there than in the US and their addicts are not committing crimes. Everyone who wants to try drugs can and the people who are not interested would not care if their were pails on every street corner. If it is so easy to get welfare now why is anyone working? Because people
don't just work for money but for self respect.