Did a little more work on my funky Yard Guard this morning. Then I took it out and chopped with it. This is my long-term project knife, and I'm not through with it yet. It is chopping better now.

beautiful job bro!

(Heart singin) "He's a mirrored man momma..."

WOW Vic! I think I could see myself when I was looking at the pics! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

That things liable to scare all the trees away... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Man that looks sharp!

that is turning into a super wicked looking knife.

When I get my platen in, I'll finish sanding the ricasso and grind a mirror polished swedge on it. Samurai Yard Guard!

which platen are ya getting HD? I seen the leather belt people from LV had a interesting one for 1x30's!

The sanders are on sale. I'm getting another one and leaving it set up for flat grinds. I'll just go back and forth between two sanders already set up to save time. Still cheaper than a knifemaker's belt sander. 3rd World Grind Shop..(on my back porch)....expanding to meet demand! Best in all China!

very smart bro. Your not kidding on the differences in price! We have a HF near me (Portland) and when the stuff I want is on sale, bamm! but for me, my next sander will be one I make, I'm looking at designs and idea's now, but it will still be way more than our 1x30! Long Live the 3rd World Grind Shop!

Sheesh Vic - that looks great! I don't have the technology you do, but I'm always screwing with my RD7 - stripping it, bluing it, adding handle spacers, etc. Its my project blade! Hopefully I'll get a bigger place when we move and be able to set up a little shop - get a belt sander - and get the 4th World Grind Shop going! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Vic, love that guard! Oooohh shiiiiiny... It looks well beyond surgical sharp!

That is one nasty (in a good way) looking knife! I love the mirror shine at the edge. As a bonus, you don't have to carry a signal mirror when you strap on that knife.

everyone remember this day as the day that paul admitted he loves a recurve!!!

I don't think he dislikes them so much as he dislikes sharpening them!

vic, those edges drive me crazy every time you show us what you can do with that sander. i went to home depot a couple days ago for one of my own, they just opened a new one in my area, that makes four i think, and had none. they had husky ladders on sale for $30. got a dremel, too.

I know this has been answered before, but since I'm like everyone else around here and have to buy whatever Vic says I should buy... I picked up a 1X30 at HF on Saturday. Played around with machettes, garage tools, lawn mower blades, etc. on a coarse belt enough to be dangerous. My question is, "what's the technique again for convexing edges?"

In the meantime, I think I might put a recurve on a machette in an attempt to stake a claim on the premier grind shop of the 8th world!

I never told anybody to buy anything, except a $.99 ceramic rod. Okay,

1. Remove the adustable table.
2. Remove the platen (that's the steel guide behind the belt). Don't lose it and the screws like I did. You will need it later for flat grinds.
3. Position the blade of the knife on the belt between the wheels. You will notice that the belt flexes. That flex creates a convex curve.
4. Be careful, wear eye protection, and get some good sharpening belts. Cold One turned me on to Lee Valley. I don't know of any other place that has them.
5. Make that recurve machete!

My bad. I was temporarily on your medication. What I meant to ask was how to achieve a hollow (opposite of convex!) effect. As it relates to your Yard Conversion, how do you avoid over-grinding if you were looking to smooth the transition up to the ricasso? I guess more directly... have you looked into radiused platens?

I think that hollow grinds are done on a wheel. I am not a machinist or knife maker. Some of the knife making stuff I saw at blade had different wheels. I think they are used in hollow grinds, but I'm not sure. I think a flat platen would be used on the ricasso to smooth it out but I'm not sure. All I know is that it did not take me long to learn how to sharpen machetes on my belt sander and things just sort of progressed from there. I think they are esier and safer than bench grinders that many people have.

I am probably the one guilty of telling people to buy a 1"x30" belt sander.
I am pretty sure I recently suggested as much. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I don't know everybodies qualifications for use of tools, so for me to generally state that everybody should get one could probably cause some problems.

But, I personally highly recommend a belt sander to "those capable of using one".

So, as much as I empowered people to get one before. I further empower you to use your own judgement and be responsible for all effects of purchasing, owning and using such tools. Be carefull!!! - especially when grinding sharp knives and similarly sharp tools!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

If you read certain posts over at Bladeforums and knifeforums, even the professionals talk about an occassional knife going flying!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

They especially warn about buffers! The loose knit material is apparently notorious for grapping and throwing blades.

Hold the knife carefully.
Don't grind off knuckles.
Wear eye protection.
Wear masks.
Keep loose sleeves and similar clothing away from wheels and belts - as they can catch and quickly grap your arm or similar causing a knife to fling or similar.

Etc. etc.!

Short of having a professional knife-maker teach you, there really isn't much to substitute for lots of practice if making modifications to nice knives.

And just heads up - Pay Attention! - Look for possible issues.

---------

The platen is crucial for flat grinds.

Not using the platen - when grinding with a flexed belt seems to be generally referred to as "Slack belt grinding" - creates a convex grind.

The more you push or the looser your belt is the more convex the blade will be.

More convex edges and/or more obtuse grind angles are sometimes better for very thick blades or blades to be used as choppers as the curve can add reinforcing strength to the edge. - personal preference and use (????).

More flat grinds and/or more acute grind angles are often better for smaller knives not heavily used for chopping and intended for sharp cutting.

Most of the typical do-it-yourself belt sander don't truly have much in the way of tightening the belt. The adjustment screw can tighten it some, but usually also controls alignment. So, your ability to tighten much isn't really there much.

So, sometimes you will need to alter the amount of pressure against the belt for different radius curves or flatter grinds on your convexing.

As Vic mentioned, the proper belts are easily the most realistic way to get a proper finish or proper edge. Felt or leather belts with compounds go even further. *Hint: only use one felt or leather belt per given compound. It is generally not considered good to use multiple compounds on one belt as you will get mixed results. Whatever color compound you put on your belt will eventualy turn black and make them hard to tell apart. I heard of a good way to keep them correct is to keep them in a labeled zip-lock bag.

I don't always have to remove the platen to do some slack belt grinding on my sander, but it depends on your platen (and how your platen is attached), size of blade and your technique.

The tables do just tend to be in the way for most anything related to knife modifications. The general concept of the table is to help give you a fixed angle against the platen - say for a 90 degree grind. But, most knife modifications involve a knife with a handle already attached and it is pretty hard to ever get much if any use out of the table. It is just in the way.

But, don't loose or throw away the table either. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


I honestly don't know how people would properly hollow grind on a belt sander. It is my understanding that hollow grinding is done on various sized abrasive wheels with a bench grinder.

But, be careful if you think you can go buy a bench-grinder to work on or modify a heat-treated or already sharp knife. The typical Bench grinders typically run at VERY high speeds. I think most knife-makers would only use this type of bench-grinder prior to heat treatment AND prior to the edge being sharpened. The high speeds WILL easily damage a heat treatment and would likely be dangerous with a sharp blade.

I think the typical hollow ground knife goes like this:

1) cut and rough shape blank
2) grind primary grind on bench grinder
3) drill holes for handle
4) heat treat
5) Clean and finish blade after heat treat
6) add and finish handle
7) sharpen

** Notice sharpening is last and heat treat is after bench grinding. I think most knife-makers seem to use belt sanders with various belts and compounds for sharpening.

** I would highly recommend any knife be kept away from a bench grinder if already heat treated and/or already sharp!

If you are referring to grinding or sharpening the recurve of an edge on a knife such as a Yard Guard with a belt sander, this is done by changing the angle of the blade - same as if grinding or sharpening any curve in the belly of a blade. - This Takes some Practice!!!

I have tried tinkering with some hollow grind areas on the wheel of the belt grinders, but I have not been thrilled with my results. Very hard for me to achieve anything consistent on the wheels.

If you are hoping to strip, modify or reshape a hollow ground blade with a belt sander, I don't really have any good advice as I don't really know how it is done. But, I assume knife-makers only use their belt sanders to clean or finish heat treated blades and don't use bench-grinders. I assume they have special platens or special wheels.

My belt sander's wheels are very convexed and I just can't really get good results when trying to do anything on my wheels. This might even be dangerous for some reason (????).

I have not seen a radiused platen (????). But, I have read where some knife-makers grind and shape their platens to create a certain style or shape to suit their own personal needs or techniqes such as shape of a plunge line. There are a lot of knife-maker opinions and people with their own certain techniques for using the platen.
Research Bladeforums or Knifeforums for term: platen

The belt curve and shape as well. Certain types of belts more or less than others. Again, takes practice.

Best tip I can think of for beginning with a Belt sander: Go slow! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Also, if you have a Drill press, I found a "Kit" with various sized drum sanding heads at Sears that has been pretty helpful for a lot of concave shaping - such as choils and handles and such. Something to consider.....

I already had a drill press and find lots of home projects I use it for. It can do a lot more precision than a regular drill press and it really helps free up your hands which can be very helpful.
But, a fairly cheap Delta drill press or similar would start at about $100 and go up. I have a counter-top model that I can move around, BUT it is still pretty heavy to move. I have been considering buying or building a table I can roll it around on, but it would need to be able to roll off and back onto the edges of my garage. And then I would need to take up floor-space in my garage.

I have lots of pretty expensive tools as I do lots of home renovation projects. Compressors, table saws, miter saws, nail guns and many other high dollar tools that make my drill press seem like a good deal. Heck, most little 12V, 14.4V and 18V cordless drills cost more than $100. But, not everybody will justify a drill press (?????).

I am actually curious to find out if I can purchase certain carbide milling bits to use in my drill press for certain little machining metal projects and such. It can take a very long time to reshape certain knives with a grinder. Maybe a caride bit could be a lot faster (????) I don't know much about machining metal. I generally work with wood. So, I still have to do a fair amount of research on that....


Anyway, again, Good luck!


.

That's just sick and I like it.

OMG! how do you get them so shiny!
alright i had this tiny piec of really fine emery paper and it took forever to take the finish off of my knife, and i have some really really really fine stuff to get it shiny and i still cant get ti like that. i just picked up some 120 grit to sharpen it, and re-grind it. It's realy fun and really time consuming to do and it gives me such satisfaction.
so what kind of belt sander do you have? and what kind of grits do you use to stip the finish, sharpen and shine.
so far i have 120 grit, like 400 grit(probably) and one of those really fine sponge type things the use to shine copper with. all and all its pretty ghetto.
like the 170,000,332,576th world grind shop.

and speaking of using it as a reflective mirror, man vs wild used one of his poor gerbers as a reflective mirror. =]

Thanks for the tips, Vic. I found this in the meantime... Several days reading on everything knife-construction: http://www.engnath.com/public/manframe.htm

Wow great post knifeguy.

Sorry Horndog it is the price you pay for being a trendsetter having people want to be like you.

I have about a 30 year old Norton belt grinder with a 42 inch 1 inch belt. It is the kind of thing a Pro would use for handles. I have been eyeing those knifemaker specific 2 inch ones though. I got mine for 40$ at a garage sale so 1500$ would be quite a bump though. It sounds like an airplane taking off.

I find it so mind numbingly fast I use it mostly for working raw annealed steel.
I do less damage with my lansky. I do sometimes use the lansky to set the exact bevel then do about 5 hours of grunt work in 5 seconds with the grinder then finish up with the Lansky. The grinder is also really nice for really dull knives or yard tools. I pick up nice hand tools at second hand sales etc and fix them up often.

I think HornDog could make great knives. I think getting a wicked good edge and the right bevel angle is the hardest thing about knifemaking and he already has it down. Cutting out the shape of a knife with a cutting wheel (angle grinder)
and shaping it with dull 60 grit belts is easy compared to that. If you send it out for HT it is really all there is to it.

[censored] that YG has a wicked edge. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" />

That's a 9 micron finish. Done with a 9 micron belt.

oh wow. 9 microns? so much for getting my knife anywhere NEAR that.

All very good information. Thanks.

(This is a bit late..) I love the yard guard shape- I just can't sharpen recurves effectively (I Lansky my knives), as Dan's factory edges are too obtuse and I can't reset them I had to give it a miss. Vic's knife looks amazing- much more stylish than a S7, but I'll grab a S7 the second they drop because I know I can sharpen it.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

Looks very nice HD <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I reset all of Dan's edges so far with a Lansky. The Coarse diamond stone makes it way faster. I am going to do my YKLE like HD's YG so we will see if I can get close. HD's YardGuard has totally inspired me.

Unsub,

Some motors can be set up with a speed controller.

I know there are special speed controler for routers. But, I haven't yet figured out all of the specifics yet for which type of motors can be controlled. Apparently, not all can be.

I am not an electrician. I can wire a house and most basic switches, outlets and simple electronics, but I haven't figured out everything electric yet.

I would like to be able to control the speed of my belt sander.

That would help with flexibility for me.

Maybe your old motor can be set up that way (????).

.

you need special electronics to control the speeds of inductive motors, be careful!

Actually the difference between the Lansky and the grinder is very big.
I do some edges on the grinder but it only takes a couple hours to get it perfect on the lansky while I watch TV. I can have some control over belt speed by using 2 or 3 wheels and longer belts for slower speeds. I often use short fast belts for stock removal and longer ones for finer grits.

My grinds are totally free hand. They are not perfect, but I have been praticing. A fellow sent me some knives to sharpen and polish the edges. I used the Yard Guard to pratice my technique on before I did his fine knives. A thick recurve is challenging to get right. I figured if I could do that one well, I could do simpler blades. I think that one day, the Yard Guard will be a thing of beauty and satisfaction for me. No rush. It's a long term project that I enjoy. Thanks for all the ecouragement.

Here it is before I thinned and polished the edge. One day it will be the baddest YG on earth! Unless Bill Siegle or Knife guy do some. Those guys have talent and skill.

Looks good Dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> Nice looking sick edge.

Vic, that is one shiny edge! You can split an atom with that thing!!

Great work Vic. The one feature I wish the HF grinder had was variable speed. Just one more slower speed would be great.

I got one side of my YK to a 600 grit polish where you can see your reflection.
It is a LOT easier to start with an LE.