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 Re: JYD Death Chat
[Re: KENKEN]
#164107
11/13/08 02:36 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 897
Momaw
Scrapper
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Scrapper
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 897 |
I would never imagine the .45 being an offensive round. You use it to get to your rifle(s) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I'll agree to this if you modify "rifle" to "longarm". Sometimes you just want to be the guy with the shotgun, right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Re: JYD Death Chat
[Re: Momaw]
#164108
11/13/08 01:41 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,267
Jim
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,267 |
I've been thinking about what to say, because I don't want to come off as uninformed, but I believe .45ACP is a battlefield proven "offensive round". It excels at momentum transfer, or knock down power. It isn't a good choice for distance, and is not as effective as higher velocity rounds against an armored opponent, but in confined or across the room distances, it rules.
When you tap someone with a .45, they will hit the deck even if they aren't dead. 9mm is better at penetration, but tends to pass through, so a lot of the round's energy is wasted. Plenty of people have been hit by 9mms and not even broken stride -- they may bleed out down the road, but they can still do a lot of damage before then. My education is that shot placement is important, but the bigger and heavier the bullet, the less critical it becomes, and the .45 is one big bullet.
JYD #60
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Re: JYD Death Chat
[Re: Jim]
#164109
11/13/08 02:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,628
chickenplucker
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,628 |
I've been thinking about what to say, because I don't want to come off as uninformed, but I believe .45ACP is a battlefield proven "offensive round". It excels at momentum transfer, or knock down power. It isn't a good choice for distance, and is not as effective as higher velocity rounds against an armored opponent, but in confined or across the room distances, it rules.
When you tap someone with a .45, they will hit the deck even if they aren't dead. 9mm is better at penetration, but tends to pass through, so a lot of the round's energy is wasted. Plenty of people have been hit by 9mms and not even broken stride -- they may bleed out down the road, but they can still do a lot of damage before then. My education is that shot placement is important, but the bigger and heavier the bullet, the less critical it becomes, and the .45 is one big bullet. If somebody shot me with a .45 I would be very offended. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />
JYD #67
You cant make chicken salad out of chicken crap.
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Re: JYD Death Chat
[Re: chickenplucker]
#164110
11/13/08 04:13 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,267
Jim
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,267 |
Absolutely. Even with body armor, 45ACP delivers a heavy impact.
Current military doctrine seems to be that the weight of a sidearm would be more effectively reallocated to extra ammunition for the soldier's primary weapon (or for a squad's support weapon), which makes sense in an open engagement. However, as more missions become urban, house-to-house, nation building police actions, very close quarters combat becomes more common. In situations where danger to civilians precludes the tried and true approach of toss a grenade, then burst through the door spraying and praying, a pistol is sometimes a better weapon than either a rifle or shotgun.
JYD #60
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Re: JYD Death Chat
[Re: Jim]
#164111
11/13/08 04:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,419
Poi Dog
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,419 |
I'll agree with you on a pistol being better in SOME situations as I can attest to it. I've been in a situation, a fishing vessel to be exact, in which my Colt 6920 was waaaaay to long to be useful, even as a club.
JYD #78
Aloha hard!! 
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Re: JYD Death Chat
[Re: Poi Dog]
#164112
11/13/08 10:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,348
darkaether
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,348 |
9MM overpenetration is a non-issue with hollowpoints. Penetration is poor actually. The internal ballistics change completely if you switch from FMJ to expanding.
Shot placement is still critical with a .45 though marginally less so with additional power. The best way it decrease the need for shot placement is to fire multiple projectiles(shotgun). The multiple would channels exponentially increase the likelyhood of critical damage like a major organ or artery.
JYD #58
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Re: JYD Death Chat
[Re: darkaether]
#164113
11/14/08 12:22 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,098
KENKEN
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,098 |
45 vs 9 is almost like busse vs scrapyard...Its really two different animals. One might be bigger or packs a bigger punch, but it doesn't mean that the smaller 9 can't do what the .45 can. Round size ain't gonna matter if you put a round in the eye <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/loopy.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by KENKEN; 11/14/08 12:23 AM.
JYD #84
This is my rifle, and that is my SHTF Busse knife.
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Re: JYD Death Chat
[Re: KENKEN]
#164114
11/14/08 01:41 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,267
Jim
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,267 |
That's true. .22LR is deadly if you hit the right spot. It's also relatively quiet. Additionally, I was told by a nurse that, because they easily deflect when they hit bone, .22s are particularly difficult to treat -- they can cause damage in places other than straight line between the entry point and where the bullet ends up.
JYD #60
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Re: JYD Death Chat
[Re: Jim]
#164115
11/14/08 01:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,149
VANCE
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,149 |
yea
i got a email from amy-o asking which 1911 grips i want ...so i gave her 3 options
JYD #22
Always drink upstream from the herd.
-- Will Rogers
aka"LUCKY DOG"
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Re: JYD Death Chat
[Re: KENKEN]
#164116
11/14/08 01:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,149
VANCE
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,149 |
45 vs 9 is almost like busse vs scrapyard...Its really two different animals. One might be bigger or packs a bigger punch, but it doesn't mean that the smaller 9 can't do what the .45 can. Round size ain't gonna matter if you put a round in the eye <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/loopy.gif" alt="" /> 9mm worked in 11 shootings....(not killings) for the dekalb county police(where i work) they carry beretta 92G'S http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/dekalb/stories/2008/03/27/shootjury_0328.html
JYD #22
Always drink upstream from the herd.
-- Will Rogers
aka"LUCKY DOG"
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Re: JYD Death Chat
[Re: VANCE]
#164117
11/14/08 03:20 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,267
Jim
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,267 |
9mm is a very good general-purpose round. It has sufficient power. It double-stacks for high capacity magazines. It has decent penetration if you need to shoot through a car door or other barricade. It is also relatively inexpensive, especially when military surplus ammo is available.
However, 9mm isn't perfect -- 10mm and .40S&W both seem to have a performance advantage, but the ammo is more expensive. Personally, I like .357 and .44 Mag (I bought a 7 1/2-inch Ruger Redhawk in the mid-80s; I added large Pachmayr grips and had it magnaported -- it's big, heavy, and quite controllable) but you sacrifice magazine capacity with a revolver. Unless you have very large hands, a double-stacked .45 won't be comfortable. Magazine capacity, availability, and cost to shoot is why most police departments standardized on 9mm.
JYD #60
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Re: JYD Death Chat
[Re: Jim]
#164118
11/14/08 03:23 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,267
Jim
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,267 |
I'm glad to hear you scored your grips, which ones did you ask for?
JYD #60
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