Knife Guy:

I like your Scrap-Weiler design, as long as those swedges, or penetrator tips, or whatever they are, are not deep enough to interfere with batoning. Two Scrap Yard releases in a row make a Chopweiler too rich for my blood. Maybe I’ll be able to get in on a Scrap-Weiler release.

While we’re comparing blades, I’ve never handled a Battle Rat. Does anybody have the Dog Father LE and a Battle Rat? Are they as similar in hand as they look on the screen, an in their specs?

If anyone has compared this pair, I’ve missed it.

I wouldn't want any penetrator tip or swedge to interfere with batoning.

A penetrator tip is generally only a sharpened point for about 0.5" or so.

A swedge can vary a lot.

I kind of like the look of the swedge and I do think there can be some value in a swedge, but I wouldn't want it to interfere with batoning either. I think it would be fine if not to thin at the spine of the swedge.
I would be fine without a swedge. Since I would likely strip mine anyway, I could add one if I wanted. It is easier to remove steel than add it.

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The Battle Rat and DFLE feel very similar.

They have the same handle, so grip is obviously the same.

The DFLE isa bout .625" longer and about 0.5 ounces heavier. And you can feel the little extra weight, but they are close.

The Battle Rat just feels a little faster and slightly more nimble in the hand. While the DFLE is just a little heavier and feels like just little bit heavier hitter.

I don't own the DFCG, but it is quite a bit heavier - 3.0 ounces more then the DFLE and I am very sure that if I can feel 0.5 ounces, 3.0 ounces would be pretty easily noticable.

Glad you like the Scrap-Weiler design. I have to say it is probably what I would wish for next from Dan.


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Knife Guy:

I can see the esthetic appeal of a swedge.

It might help penetration in a thrust, though I don’t see much use for a thrust in a bush knife. For combat, a katana thrusts well enough without one.

A sharpened false edge is supposed to be useful for some knife fighting styles—e.g. Bill Bagwell’s “deadly back stroke”. I have no personal knowledge about that use.

A swedge might help a smith give a final adjustment to a knife’s balance—like the ubiquitous cooking instruction “Season to taste.” A production knife shouldn’t require that fiddling. Get the pattern exactly right before you start reproducing them.

Beyond that I come up dry. What value do you have in mind?

I did a little chop off today between my very sharp stripped reprofiled Yard Guard and the Ratweiler. There was no comparison. On the same oak log, the YG took 48 strokes and the Ratweiler took 30 to chop through. I took pics, but my Photobucket "Pro Account" isn't accepting my uploads today. The Ratweiler is made to chop, and it does.

Here are the pics:

Here they are, the Ratweiler and Yard Guard:


48 chops later:

Now the "Chop"weiler goes to work:

30 chops and it is through!


The Ratweiler is the choppinest knife that size I have ever used. Maybe Dan will make us one with a Res C handle.

Awesome Vic! glad that you have the new machine up and running.

Gonna run through the old one with your Dumpster Mutt? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I got a new Charter Arms Bulldog Pug. Got some Corbon's for it. I think I'll shoot it, hack it with my tomahawk, and then drop it off the bridge! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm not surprised that the Chopweiler outperformed on that chopping test, but I am surprised that it did so by such a wide margin. Visually, the blades look very similar and I would have thought that the (+) of the recurve would have balanced out the (-) of the clip point on the Yard Guard as far as chopping goes.

I saw a comparison of the Swamp Rat Uncle Mojo vs the Original Scrapweiler that yielded very similar results. You would not think there would be a significant chopping difference, but there must be something about the design that gives the Weiler a strong chopping advantage.

Now I must say, the Mojo/Guard is one awesome looking knife. Wicked good looks in steel. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bring on the Scrap-Weilers!!!

I had done some informal comparisons already, so I knew the ratweiler was the better chopper. Even I was suprised by just how much better. I really can't figure it out. I just go out and chop and I get what I get. Why does the DFLE chop better than the Browning Crowell-Barker? Why does my S6 chop better than my Busse ASH1 SE? Why is my Entrek Destroyer not a better chopper? There are lots of factors: weight, shape, balance, handle shape and size, and edge geometry. Whoever designed the Ratweiler knew what he was doing. I have no doubt that a Scrap Yard version would be superb. I guess that with the Res C handle it would be more like a Camp Tramp, which is also known as a great chopper, although I have never had the pleasure of using one.

I am not that surprised. I would have bet pretty stongly for the Chopweiler easily out-performing the Yard Guard in a "Chopping" contest.

The Yard Guard is a decent chopper, but it is more of a unique nitch knife that chops decent. It is part fighter, part camp knife, part chopper. It really is good at a lot of things, but really probably isn't going to be great at any one thing.

For it's size, the Chopweiler is an OUSTANDING chopper. I think you have to use the handle to appreciate the nuances of the chopping motion and angle in the hand. It is a very well designed knife.

I really can't even say that Res-C would be better, but Res-C always makes it "different" and lighter. The Res-C handle has proven itself to be a great chopping handle as well and the difference of about 4-5 ounces lighter in the handle is always very noticable in feel to me. Lighter to carry and changes the balance and dynamics of the whole knife. Again, not always better, but always different.

Personally, I EASILY felt the S6 felt WAY better than the M6.

However, 48 vs. 30 is an efficiency rating of 60% better for the Chopweiler. That is pretty strong and probably a little higher than I would have expected, but I assume those numbers would vary on different chopping comparisons a little. But, I would expect the Chopweiler to win at chopping every time.

I have said before and I will say again: I HIGHLY endorse the Chopweiler.
The Chopweiler is not likely to out-chop a Battle Rat or Dog Father, but for a 7.5" chopper, it has to be near the top!

Here is a post I made at Scrap Yard: Chopweiler Praise !!!

About the only thing that "might" beat the Chopweiler would be a Res-C handle on a Chopweiler blade = Scrap-Weiler. And it probably wouldn't out-right beat the Chopweiler in a chopping contest. I think they would compete well at chopping, but the advantage to the Scrap-Weiler (Res-C) would be lighter and easier to carry. (IMO).


I think I mentioned this before, but again, a Res-C version of the Chopweiler would actually have about a 7.875" - 8.0" blade if using a blade comparable to the Chopweiler's.
The Chopweiler has a 7.5" blade if measured from tip to micarta, but the micarta on the Chopweiler scales extends about .375" further onto the ricasso than the Res-C handles.

I know a lot of people have been chanting for an S7, but with the Yard Guard and Hooks having 7.25" blade, it really seems like closer to 8.0" is more called for (????) - my opinion.


Camp Tramp has a 7.5" blade. I would love a 7.875" - 8.0" Scrap-Weiler!!!!

I am reluctant to post this pic again (although, I don't see it on page 3 yet <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) If Dan is bringing something similar, but not the same, I hate to be rocking the boat, but I can't resist - I guess I am hoping for pretty close to as shown: Bring me this sweetness:





The Scrap-Weiler is number one on my lists of "wants" from the Yard for myself at this point, just not an ideal time for me with my current finances. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />

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Interesting thing about your comment. I think I am having an alzheimer's moment - as I SWEAR I typed up a comment somewhere about how my Scrap-Weiler concept photo-chop ended up "appearing" to have a swedge. But, I can't find where I typed it anywhere (??????????????????) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

When I photo-chopped the Scrap-weiler concept, I basically copied and pasted a portion of the mid-section of the spine (of a Chopweiler) toward the tip and rotated it in and cleaned the lines to make it fit. The portion I "cut" didn't have the grind line and I pasted it over the grind line. I just didn't fabricate the grind line back in so it appears to have a swedge. I thought it "looked" cool in the pic, so I just left it instead of taking the time to fill the primary grind line back in.
But, in reality, I don't have so much value for a swedge.


I checked and I actually did say this: "I kind of like the look of the swedge and I do think there can be some value in a swedge, but I wouldn't want it to interfere with batoning either. I think it would be fine if not too thin at the spine of the swedge ."

So, when I say: "not too thin at the spine of the swedge", I mean not sharpened, just thinned a little. Meaning if the spine is .24" thick, the swedge at the spine could still be .1" - .12" thick or so. Still a swedge with some benefits, but not so thin to be a hinderance in batoning.



But, "some" possible benifits "could" be:

- "Improves" in thrusting type penetration - Yes, Katana's thrust pretty well. But, *** And this is some theory on my part - I believe a Katana's primary use was for slashing and chopping - not thrusting. No doubt, thrusting could, can and probably has been done with Katanas. Ironically, the other benifit of a swedge would be:

- "Improves" slash cutting (at tip) - But, if a Katana is primarily a slashing weapon, why not have the blade shaped to maximize slashing capabilities??? - * I am very confident that a blade with a swedge WILL slash better at the tip than a blade without a swedge.
But, here is "My theory" for the catch in regards to a Katana: In a Katana, the tip of the blade would be under EXTREME torque with the speed generated from a MUCH longer blade. I think a swedge tip on most Katanas would compromise strength and be too prone to breaking. A broken tip on a Katana would be a major compromise to it as a weapon. An argument could be made that a swedge on a blade such as a Chopweiler or Scrap-Weiler sized blade would compromise it's strength as well, but I doubt there would be any real concerns in even extreme use of breaking the tip of a Scrap Yard, Swamp Rat or Busse blade. Some of the Battle Rats had a small swedge and they have done fine. Keep in mind that Katanas have a differentially heat treated blade up to and including the tip. And the edges (and tip) are harder and more brittle on a Katana that many other types of swords.

MANY other swords effectively have a swedge or thinned back spine that would be comparable to a swedge in use. I don't "really" know why a Katana doesn't have a swedge - I am just theorizing. But, in use, there would be some advantages to a swedge in a weapon (IMO). I would be curious if anyone knows the real reasons why "Most" (??????) Katanas do not have a swedge. I say most as I don't recall having seen a Katana with a swedge, but I wouldn't be surprised if some did (??????).

- Third benifit is for drilling. A swedge tip will drill better than a non-swedge tip.


Those are just some possible benifits, but I doubt "I" would consider any of them worthy of out-weighing the one significant advantage to NOT having a swedge - batoning.

I don't think tip strength would be an issue.

Looks are subjective.

Anyone else?????

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Thanks for the review Vic, I have to say I am really looking forward to the Mastiff and DFLE chop off. It will be interesting to see how the Mastiff performs, it appears to have the same blade geometry as the weiller... Now we just have to wait for them to release it..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />