Hello Michael D. and welcome to The Yard. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

As for the DMDC.

1. Blade Length is 5" with the choil the cutting edge is reduced two 4.00 +/- 0.1 in.

2. Blade width is 1.5 in.

3. I don't have a weight gauge, but from what I heard it should be around 10-13 oz. Fairly light.

I'm sorry I don't have any info regarding the Fallkniven. I don't own any.

Here's mine:

i wonder if andy ever uses his rat mastiff???
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
lol

Michael...
I hear fallknivesn are VERY easy top sharpen, but so are scrapyards.
which cuts better just depends on how you do the profiling.
and I have no clue about edge holding.

...
I guess I didn't answer much, but I know the DMDC comes quite dull compared to the recent scrapyards (which have had good edge geometry and have come shaving sharp or at least almost shaving sharp) so a little re-profiling/sharpening may be in order.
and it's obvious you're planning on it so...
enjoy!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You see the river in the knife. It's a custom paint job. Andy definitely keeps it as a safe queen. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

As for those who have voted for the RMD and then apologized to the yard, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />, you have to put things in perspective. I saw a thread a while ago on the rat chat that asked what their favorite knife was, or maybe it was what they thought the best design was: the RMD was about tied with the M6 and beat it by a little. So in comparing this, we have to realize that its a popularity contest between what is arguably the best knife ever made by SW, and the DM, which (while it's still nice) is probably not the most popular knife to come out of the yard.

my 2c,
i voted for the RMD because it was the only one I have. I'm still waiting for my DMDC, a situation you should already know about because I b*tch about it almost daily hahaha

Michael,

I would love to be able to offer "more" specific info, but I don't have the "exact" two knives you are asking about.

I do have slight variations of both though.

I have a Dumpster Mutt, but only the CG.

I have an S1, but mine is a custom micarta handled version.

Based on what I have, I can answer "some" questions......:

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regarding DMDC:

1. What is the length of cutting surface ? - ??????? - I am not sure about "Surface", but the cutting "Edge" (around the belly curve) on the DMCG is about 4.4" and about 5.125" on the S1

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2. How wide is the blade? The DMCG has a blade "height" of about 1.3125"; the S1 is about 1.125"

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3. How much does the knife weigh ? - I can't answer accurately, the DMCG weighs more than the DMDC, but if you are curious, my DMCG weighs about 8.5 ounces.; Similarly, my custom micarta handled S1 weighs more than the standard Thermorun handled version, but my micarta version weighs a little over 8.0 ounces - probably about 8.25 ounces.

I measure the tang thickness of my DMCG at: 0.274" - after lots of stripping of the coating and grinding out the pits, mine is now down to right at 0.250" thick at the spine.

And my S1 is at 0.195"

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"Could someone tell me how they both compare:"

That is a very open ended question, but I will give "some" comparison info:

For my two, they are very comparable and two very good knives:




1) The DM has a choil and the S1 does not - I am fine with either choil configuration on this size of a knife - no personal preference - just different.

2) In comparing my two, they are similar in weight, but the DMCG is slightly more blade heavy and the S1 is slightly more handle heavy. I probably slightly favor the more neutral balance of my S1 which balances right on the middle of my index finger. My DMCG balances just to the rear of the finger choil.

Your DMDC should be more neutral balanced than the DMCG - I would guess the DMDC balances around the middle of the guard. And your Thermorun (I Assume) S1 will be slightly more blade heavy than mine. I am guessing the Thermorun S1 balances forward of the index finger near the rear of the guard. They might have very similar balance - close enough where the difference is negligable or doesn't matter (???).

3) The S1 has a swedge and the DM does not. Personally, I am confused to why the S1 has a swedge. The S1 is referred to as a "Forest Knife". But, a swedge is not beneficial for batoning - A flat spine is better for batoning.
My honest opinion is that a lot of people love to baton for the fun of it, but I honestly RARELY really need to. But, I guess it depends on your individual needs. I typically don't bother or waste my energy batoning or even chopping wood. Where I have have camped and burned many fires over the years, I have always (lucky I guess) had plenty of wood I could break up into sizes I need from twigs to medium sized branches for fire. I often just burn large branches by "feeding" them into the fire. To each their own.

But, I tend to still prefer a flat spine with very short swedge under 0.5" - 1.0" or a penetrator type tip.

Longer swedges are for fighting knives in my opinion. I have a few, but they are more collectibles than users. - Cool to "look at" knives....

The swedge might help with some digging or point use applications, but I would probably lean towards a flat top spine. Notice I added a "Penetrator" tip to my DMCG. That is sufficient tip for most of my needs.

4) The S1 has a rear tang extension. I consider this a bonus and advantage to the S1. I think Scrap Yard should consider re-designing future Res-C handles with a similar feature. But, it is a feature that I would honestly rarely if ever use. Nice to have just in case, but not likely needed. So, Scrap Yard should use up their current inventory of Res-C. I wouldn't justify trashing a current inventory of Res-C for that change. Just consider it in the future.

Both handles should be fine, but I assume I would probably prefer the feel of the Res-C handles over the Thermorun handles.

My DMCG has the Busse Basic small handle which is too small for my hands, but I posted a tip on modifying Res-C a while back. Res-C can be sanded and shaped. I rounded over the square guard forward of the index finger and made my DMCG handle more cozy. The DMDC handle I believe is slightly roomier than the DMCG handle. The side prfiles look identical, but the shape of the guard and pommel make them feel slightly different. But, either can still be modified if needed.
I doubt the S1 handle is too small. My micarta handle is custom and not a relavent comparison factor - But, in case you are curious, I think my micarta handled S1 has penty of length in the grip area. Mine is thick and flat. I would prefer slightly thinner and a subtle contour with slight swell in the middle. From pictures I have seen of the Thermorun S1, I believe the handle has contouring more along what I would prefer. Maybe I will modify and contour my micarta someday. (????)

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Which one will cut better ? : Fallkniven is 5 mm thick with sabre grind, Dumpster Mutt is 6,3 mm thick but it has full flat grind ( after thinning and regrading edge to 20 degrees each side)

Typically the S1 comes with a 2/3 height convex grind to sharp primary grind - No secondary edge bevel. Personally, I would keep the convex edge. If you have not had a convex edged knife before, there is a learning curve for sharpening. But, I highly recommend taking the time to learn to do it right.
With it's sabre grind, I wouldn't call the S1 a "Full" Convex, but effectively it cuts the same. The difference is really only the radius of the grind and that radius can vary from near flat to quite curved on a partial height convex grind or full height convex grind. The difference is only in the height of the grind. Both have effectively one single grind for cutting.

The advantage in a partial height or full height convex grind is the smooth continuous bevel. If you are only cutting with the edge - shallow cutting penetration, then it is not as relevant. Edge sharpness and bevel angle are more relavent. But, the more you are through cutting deep into material, the less drag you have on a partial or full convex grind. Whereas a dual bevel grind has a shoulder that creates a "friction spot" when cutting through material. The more angle there is at the shoulder, the more friction is created when through cutting. A good convex edge on a flat grind can be blended to almost as good as a full convex grind - and effectively made into full convex grind that just goes flat. - ...... Hopefully, that makes sense. It is late.

Based on your comment: "regrading edge to 20 degrees each side", I assume you have a flat angle sharpening system like a Sharpmaker or similar - since you are referring to specific angles. Or maybe you just read somewhere that 20 degrees is optimal (?????)
I don't believe "All" knives are best served with one single angle. Different angles for different uses and types of knives - IMO.

Personally, I pretty much convex all my knives if I am going to use them. With a convex edge, it is a little tricky to specify edge angle. It is somewhat of a generalization/ballbark of angles (????)
However, smaller knives with more cutting and less heavy use like chopping, I can make with a thinner profile for keener cutting - more like a razor, but I don't like my field knives too thin.
Conversely, if you are using the edge for heavy duty chopping, you want a little steeper angle with a little more steel behind the edge to provide a stronger edge and more support for the edge. Chop with too thin an edge and you will chip or roll the edge. - That can be bad! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbdn.gif" alt="" />

I use my belt sander to profile convex edges and strop to keep convex edges sharp. You can strop on a leather belt with the right equipment. But, belt sanders is a whole other LONG topic. Please use the search engine for tips on using a belt sander.

The S1 factory edge will most likely, honestly, cut circles around most typical Busse and kin factory edges. I have seen a few Busse and kin knives recently that have come reasonably sharp. But, Fallkniven ships one of the better factory edges in the industry up with Bark River and Spyderco. Spyderco sharpens flat edges. Bark River is full convex.
Busse ships a "Convex" edge on a flat grind. But, the factory edges tend to be fairly obtuse (good.... er.... decent for choppers). However, any "decent" quality knife can be made "Wicked" sharp.
Busse and kin knives are made with VERY good steel and also can be made "Wicked" sharp if you know how.

Honestly, I wish Busse knives came with Fallkniven quality edges..... But, it is what it is. Some people don't mind Busse edges. Some people probably think they are good. Those people haven't had the pleasure of using a wicked sharp edge.

The Busse and kin knives will have a flat primary grind. The only exceptions I know of off the top of my head are all "Busse"/INFI knives: The AK47, the SJTAC and the ZT all have convex primary grinds. The ZT line was full convex to sharp. The AK47 and SJTAC was a convex primary grind with a convex secondary edge bevel.
As you mentioned the DMDC has a full height flat grind. Personally, I am fine with a good convex edge on a full flat grind. It can be made to cut very well. But, I do feel a good convex "edge" will out-perform a flat angle edge bevel that has a shoulder - IMO.


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- Is easier to sharpen, without electric tools ?

Hmmmmmm - I guess. "Easy" is a relative term. Some people have a hard time sharpening and getting a good edge. Personally, I feel a convex edge is very easy to strop of you have a leather strop and compound. Stones are hard to use on convex edges and they can be tricky for many people to maintain a consistent angle on flat bevels. You can get a Sharpening "Jig" like a Sharpmaker, but after stropping and using a belt sander, I sold most of my stones and some high dollar $200.00 sharpening jigs. Stropping and belt sanders is WAY faster and easier once you learn how.

To put it in perspective, I don't know of any knife "Makers" who sharpen their knives with stones - except a few Japanese Traditionalist makers.

*** BUT, you MUST learn how on practice knives first. So some research!!!

Here is a start: Sharpening Thread



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- Will keep edge longer ?

Honestly, the VG-10 in the S1 probably has a slight advantage in edge retention. But, VG-10 is also more prone to chipping vs. SR-77 if you hit a rock or similar. So, they will dull differently from different types of cutting. So, depends on what you are cutting. If you are chopping and aggressive, the SR-77's edge will have some advantages. With simple slicing of meat, paper, wood, etc, the VG-10 will probably have a slight advantage. But, you might not notice the difference either. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

They are both good steels. But, have slightly different properties. SR-77 is very tough. But, the S1 is made with a laminated steel. The core of the laminated steel is VG-10 and is designed for edge retention with outside laminated layers being engineered for adding toughness. For most uses on a knife this size, they are both more than sufficiently tough.... Unless you consider chopping bricks and prying car doors off of cars normal use in which case the DM will have a slight advantage. But, that is not about the edge. That is about over-all blade toughness.


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- Has harder handle ?

Huh? Assuming you are getting the S1 with a Thermorun handle, both the Thermorun and Res-C handles are sort of rubbery feeling. I have not handled the Thermorun handles. I have 3 Fallknivens, but two are micarta and one leather. My guess is the Res-C will feel nicer in the hand, but usually that is a personal preference and I have heard different people say different things. Neither are hard. I can barely dent my fingernail into Res-C. But, the S1 does have the extended tang which allows for beating or batoning the pommel of the S1. I have read some people caution that throwing a Res-C knife and hitting the Res-C handle against your target instead of blade can result in a "super-ball" type ricochet! - IOW - your knife will bounce and fly! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Probably off topic, but: Personally, I haven't honestly thrown any knives in 20+ years. But, I had some throwing knives as a kid. I find cheap throwing knives MUCH better for throwing and much cheaper than good knives. "GOOD" throwing knives can be bought for $20 - $40. Throwing any knife can result in some type of beating to the knife - especially if you don't stick it. Handles and edges take a lot of abuse if bounces around in rocks if not stuck in target.
I don't throw my good knives. To each their own.



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- What the length of cutting surface and weight in Dumpster Mutt. - I think I answered that above.




I hope this helps some. But, if you have a DMDC on the way and are planning to buy a S1, you should have both in hand for your own comparisons soon.

Pictures are always appreciated around here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />


.

KnifeGuy: Thank you very much, that's the frickin' good comparison.


The last thing:

Could someone do me a favor, and group those steels in terms toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, ease of sharpening, from the best to the worst ?


S7(Sr-77), 1095, 5160, 50100-B (0170-6C/ Carbon V), 52100(SR-101), D2, A2, O1, L6

michael, alot of that stuff can be opinion, or just someone who is really biased twords one steel for one reason or another.(the had a knife of it that broke ect.)

just to let you know.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

most of those are GREAT steels IMO though, and I'd say s7,5160,52100,1095, A2 and carbon V are all good and generally tough steels.
and s7 is VERY easy to sharpen along with 1095.

sorry, I don't really know that much about the rest of the steels, so I'll let other people chime in.

For some steel comparisons, I stumbled across this page a while back:
http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/blade_materials.html

never handled a MOD but i dont think it would change my opinion.

without a question of a doubt i would say that my absolute favorite DM is the CGDM

i love that knife.its actually one of my favorite knives period and its really the only DM i like.i sold my DMLE and DCDM.

they are great knives but to me they are just yardkeepers or HRLM with a choil and i dont like choils.

so why do i like the CGDM??????........its a fatty!!!!!........280-.285 baby,yeah!

good stuff !

I've never heard of the Urban Mutt until now. What an awesome blade! Officially my on the top of my list. If anyone has one they don't use/want, please let me know.