As regards comparing the Scotch dispenser and the SwampWarden I would take the Warden in a heart beat just because the SD is the ugliest knife that Busse have made this side of the Sus-Scrofa <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" />....obviously that's just appearance as their performance will always be up to Busse's high standard.
The Warden looks a sweet knife though and would always be welcome in my meager collection !!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think referring to something as a "makeshift afghan armored go cart" is pretty clear Bruce. It certainly does not reflect well on Spyderco, actually it reflects quite poorly which is why I brought it up. There was no need for it and it was very much uncalled for.

Spyderco rock !...


Now big group hug and back to the debate !!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

More of a minion to the real Boss actually! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I wouldn't say INFI is twice as tough. I seriously doubt this and have never seen anything to support that INFI is that much tougher.

I said INFI "MAY" be 50% tougher.
Twice as tough would be 100% tougher!

I said 50% trying to point out theoretical best case scenario in context with trying to make a point about cost.
I don't believe INFI is actually even 50% tougher in most cases.

There is no simple realistic way to actually measure toughness. And toughness can be defined or shown in different ways.

For the most part, we are really just generalizing with toughness.

The term: "Toughness" is fairly vague in reference to a wide range of types of knives and different ways to determine or "speculate" about toughness.

Further, keep in mind that Swamp Rat SR-101 comes two ways: "through hardened" for most smaller knives and "Differentially heat treated" for most (not all) larger knives.


The differentially heat treated blades have the spines hardened at a lower level.

This makes the blade tougher over-all - in "some" ways.

But, at the same time, the softer spine is much easier to ding up.

So, tougher in some ways and less tough in others. Too hard to define.

But, for the record, there were a couple of versions of the Battle Rat that were made with through hardened SR-101 and I have seen some of those used extremely hard with no failure or significant damage.

A fair debate could probably be waged about through hardened SR-101 vs. Differentially heat treated SR-101


------------

Yes, "INFI is less likely to rust." - Or, SR-101 is more prone to rust. - Or SR-101 rusts easier.


----------------




INFI is tougher than SR-101 by most any realistic method of determining toughness.

I never said that the level of toughness can't be seen in a knife as small as the SD or Swamp Warden.

I said:
"Most" people will find it hard to abuse smaller knives enough to notice edge performance advantages or toughness advantages between INFI and SR-101.

That is not saying you can't beat your INFI and SR-101 knives enough to notice a "Difference". I am sure you can. But, most people don't generate enough torque on their smaller knives and/or don't beat the snot out of their smaller knives to "realistically" notice "much" difference.

Aside from corrosion and price, most people are not going to beat their knives hard enough to "appreciate" the differences between INFI and SR-101 even if they might notice some slight subtle differences - "Especially" on smaller knives!

If you are at war, a SAR guy, or going into an "Extreme" scenario where you know you life might very likely be on the line and your knife might need to take some of the most extreme punishment you can give it, then the extra cost for INFI would very likely be worth it.

For EDC on your motorcycle and for whatever normal EDC type cutting chores most people would normally be able to throw at a knife, SR-101 is VERY tough and PLENTY tough.

I have seen SR-101 chop through cinder blocks and cut through nails. It is very possible to torture test knife steels to much more severity. But, I don't even chop through cinder blocks OR nails. So, I am quite confident it is plenty tough for me.

To each his own.

------------------------

RS,

You said:



Busse/INFI is probably an abrahams tank in the knife world. I would say in most cases (not never) that Busse and Spyderco are not comparable.

But, for more realistic analogies, let's just say Busse/INFI is more like a full size Hummer.

SR-101 would probably be a souped up H2.

Spyderco is more like a Honda. - Various models from Civic to Accord to Various Lexus models! Very well made and very practical. Tough enough for most EDC. Some tougher than others. Spyderco uses a LARGE variety of different types of steels and is very respected for there over-all quality in steel and fit and finish.

One might wonder if the Rat Trap was made by Spyderco.

The recent Spyderco Mule was made of 52100 (similar to SR-101). So, don't assume that Spyderco doesn't use some very tough steel from time to time.
Rumor has it they might try M4 soon. Spyderco just uses a large variety of steels and tries to target a broad market of uses and needs. Most of Spydercos market is looking for a well made folder that "Cuts" and performs extremely well with reasonable amounts of toughness. Spyderco is a successful company for a reason!
Personally, I don't like thumb-holes on my folders. I find this unfortunate, because otherwise, I think Spyderco makes some outstanding knives. I have a large number of fixed Spyderco knives including the Temperance which I consider a great knife. VG-10 is not as tough as SR-101, but it is very good knife steel if you need a knife and not a hammer or pry-bar. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
However, for the record, VG-10 "CAN" be batoned quite well! Not trying to get going on Spyderco, VG-10 or other makers and other steels. So, I will stop there.



.

I was recently promoted. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />

BLD - you were correct. I wasnt ragging on Spyderco. Cold One jumps at every chance to bust my balls on anything it seems.

He took my words out of context, notice how he only posted ONE LINE from my posting....

So, I will explain myself. I said what Cold One took out of context in reference to Busse and their toughness. I WASNT down-grading Spyderco. And Cold One has no idea how i feel about spyderco so for him to speak up for me, on my thread, is uncalled for. I happen to love spyderco. i own MANY blades by them. however, when looking at the topic at hand (the discussion and comparison between 2 HARD USE TOUGH steels) spyderco doesnt relate or compare.

I like spyderco, and i love Busse Combat. But since a Mod hijacked my thread and diverted the discussion from the topic we were discussing, I'm done with it.

Knifeguy - again, thank you for taking the thread seriously man. You posted very good information and i enjoyed reading your thoughts. Im glad you caught on to my busse/spyderco statement, b/c cold one sure didnt...

Its 52100 not 5200.
And those are the facts of it, each element in the steel and the % of it in it adds to the steels properties.

I have never used sr-101 or 52100 but eather have you.
Looking at it from a metallurgical standpoint 5160 and 52100 are very different.