If you want it satin, you need to sand that rough area. Start with 80 to 120 grit. Use light pressure and avoid overheating the steel. Keep the blade moving and try to maintain the same amount of pressure through a smooth even stroke. Take your time. When the rough areas are no longer visible, go to 180 to 220 and it will look almost like a factory satin finish. Scotchbrite takes forever to remove that rough steel. It will do well to shine up the smooth ground part of the blade, though.

ps It's looking good so far. You can do this. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Yep.... What Vic said.

Belt sander / Sanding is better at smoothing out the pits. Sanding is more aggressive and faster than Scotchbrite.

Scotchbrite does pretty decent at giving a "uniform" brushed satin texture.

wanna sell it?

l0l


nice job vox

Ha! Wait until it is done. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Status report...

I rigged up my Harbor Freight belt sander tonight and spent about 20 minutes fooling around with it by sharpening an old throw away knife and practicing grinding a wire edge. Went slow and kept the blade cool the entire time. That old ugle knife can cut paper now for the first time in it's life. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

After I felt a bit more comfortable I brought out the Ratchet and started to work on the flat parts, i.e. the rough stuff above the choil. What I found is that the belt has some flex in it and wants to apply a slight convex shape to the metal. This has the effect of smoothing the edges before the middle. The Ratchet has 2 inches of perfect FLAT and I'm having trouble getting the middle part with the belt. Any suggestions?

I can keep grinding and give the entire flat part a slight convex curve and that won't hurt it a bit, and I'll eventually buff out the middle, but was wondering if there was some technique to work on the flat metal parts. I have the belt as tight as I can go without creating undue movement and vibration.

What do you think?

You MUST use the platen to belt sand flat parts of a blade.

You can NOT get a flat grind properly without using the platen.

The platen is the flat metal plate behind the belt. (*See plate behind belt circled in blue.)



I don't own a Harbor Freight belt sander, but I assume "some" assembly may be required. Did you install/attach the platen? They are usually removeable on that type of sander.

For some things they can be in the way. I leave mine attached and sand above the platen for slack belt when I "Want" convex.

But, usually you can remove the platen for a large slack area.

* Try to make sure your platen is lined up as plumb as possible inline and perpendicular with the belt. Check tracking of belt.

Again, you should practice with a junk knife first. The biggest trick with the platen is the initial contact with blade to sandpaper/platen. You want to try to contact the flat part of the blade as perfectly flat as you can on one end and then move the blade across the belt/platen. I usually start near the handle and move towards the tip. I tend to reverse the process left to right vs. flipping the knife over. I stand on one side for one direction and on the other for the other direction. I don't know if there is a proper technique or not. I was not taught by a professional. I have just tinkered enough to hopefully feel what is working best.

The sandpaper belts grind more aggressively and not quite as smoothly when grinding against the platen. I would guess it will remove metal about twice as fast. So, you have to be a little more carefull.

If you contact the blade at an off angle, it can grind a bad mark on the blade very fast that can take a long time to fix and sometimes you have to take a lot of metal off to fix.

Since you have to try to keep the blade cool, you must contact the blade to the belt/platen many times in most efforts to get the pits out.

The areas up against the Res-C can be tricky too.

If your belts track to one side a little, I often have the sides of my belts cut into the Res-C a little. I have never had "Bad" damage to the Res-C, but you have to keep an eye on the belt.

I have to wear eye protection (and mask) and highly recommend it anyway. I have to see well. Make sure you have very good lighting at the contact of the belt and on the blade. Good lighting helps a LOT!


Here is another past link with some more Belt Grinder Info: Stripping the Coating


Hopefully, you didn't mess up the flats too much.

Good luck.

.

Didn't mess up the flats. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The Platen worked great! I have the Ratchet all smooth and how I want it now, just need to get the Bench Grinder now.

Would you recommend the 6" or the 8" Bench Grinder? The ~6" is $20 cheaper but the ~8" looks like it would give you a larger and less curved area to grind with and I'm guessing that would be a benefit.

Also, is the one "grit/type" of Scotch-Brite wheels or multiple to choose from. If multiple, what "grit/type" would you recommed for applying the satin finish.

This has been a fun learning experience. Thanks for all the good advice.

When I get it all done I'll be posting pics. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The scotchguard finish is nice and very easy compared to the kind of work a beautiful mirror finish or even a good satin takes.

Great! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />






<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Tell me you didn't just use "Bench-Grinder" and "GRIND" in reference to knives!!!!!

I assume you where using "grind with" in reference to Scotch-Brite wheels.....

But, to be sure, I would have to seriously recommend NEVER use a Bench-Grinder with the grind "Stones" to grind on your knives.

Most Bench-Grinders with "grind-stones" generate WAY too much heat way too fast. You would VERY likely ruin your temper and knife if you use a bench grinder with the grind stones.

*** I am just re-stating that to be sure.... since you mention "grind with".

But, I also realize you had mentioned using a bench-grinder for Scotch-Brite wheels and buffing. I suppose you could consider using Scotch-Brite wheels as still "grinding". If that is all you use it for, then which wheel size would mostly depend on your budget. However, I think most people would consider the 8" upgrade a worthy investment. $20 isn't much for an upgrade in a tool investment. It will likely/possibly have a better motor (if same brand) and 8" buffing wheels should be better to work with than smaller wheels.

I used 6" on my drill press and that works as well. But, I think I would prefer 8". I would also prefer wider wheels. My 6" wheels are too narrow. But, the wheels with a mandrel attached for a drill seem different from most of the wheels I have seen for a bench-grinders (???????). Most of the Bench-grinder wheels seem a little wider. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Even though Scotch-Brite wheels and buffing pads don't generate NEAR the heat of a grind stone, they do generate more heat than you might expect --- And faster than you would likely expect.

I mentioned I used buffing wheels on my drill press turning at a slower speed and I still was able to get my blades hot to the touch in 20 - 40 seconds on a large blade - and with narrow thin wheels. So, still keep an eye out on heat. Keep a water bucket handy Use a metal or plastic dunk bucket. Dunking a blade every so often cools it down WAY faster than air. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> I just keep a few paper towels handy as well to dry the blade with.

When I do any type of power sanding or buffing on my knives, I intentionally use my bare hands so I can constantly feel the heat of the blade.

I am very confident that if I can hold the blade with my bare hands, it is not likely hot enough to damage the temper.

However, you have to keep it all in perspective. A Dremmel, a Belt sander and especially a bench-grinder can all generate so much heat so fast - Especially, if grinding a small spot like an edge!
When grinding the large broad flat surfaces, you can feel the heat almost as quick as you are generating it. When working on large areas, I think it is easier to not damage temper. But, when working on a small area like the edge, it takes too long for the heat to radiate through the blade for you to feel it. So, you have to be more carefull in those small areas - ESPECIALLY "THIN" areas!

Similar to belt sanding, Scotch-Brite wheels also make a mess and dust.

Buffing wheels with compounds is even messier as the compound gets slung everywhere.

Wear old clothes (especially if buffing with compound) and again eye protection and a mask. Both Scotch-brite and buffing with compounds still create a lot of airborne dust.


MORE SAFETY INFO - pretty decent thread: Safety concerns for new knifemakers

... I have seen a couple of other well worded safety threads, but I can't remember where.


I really should defer the Scotch-brite grit type question to Vic or somebody with more experience with Scotch-Brite wheels. I only have one Scotch-Brite wheel and it is the only one I have used. So, it is hard for me to compare the different grits for you. There are MANY options to choose from.

I don't have the package on my abbrassive wheel anymore and I can't determine the grit. The label is too worn. Sorry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

If you are just trying to stick with what you can buy from Home Depot, you will have way less options to choose from. There are a handful of knife-maker supply online retailers I could recommend. But, the wheels at Home Depot might be just fine.
If Vic can't reply in time and you get anxious to just go to the store, buy your stuff and get back to working on your blades, Home Depot is Excellent at letting you return unused items.
I tried searching Home Depot's web-site to try to advise. But, I have found Home Depot's web-sites sucks for many item searches - especially smaller items and accessory type items. I couldn't find any sanding wheels, grind wheels, Scotch-brite, Scotchbrite or similar.
I would probably recommend getting about 3 of the medium grits. Start with the middle one. If it gets you what you want, return the other two. If it is not aggressive enough, step up to the next more aggressive wheel. If too aggressive. Step down to the next less abbrassive wheel or similar (????????) - just an idea.

*But, 3M Scotch-Brite makes probably a hundred or more different types of abbrassive wheels. So, MANY options (??????????????????).

If you decide you want to do some buffing, I can guide you some on some of the buffing compounds. I have tinkered with a few and have a feel for the ones I have used. But, I personally would stick with a nice satin Scotch-brite finish and call it a day. If you just want a nice satin finish, you shouldn't need ANY of the buffing wheels and compounds. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I had to mirror finish one blade and it was a PITA!

I really don't like mirror finishes for users. They are too hard to maintain. A good simple satin finish RULES in my book!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I like shiny mirror edges though! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />


I recommend a leather belt for the belt sander and compounds for the edge. Or strop with a leather strop and compounds. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> ..... But, that is another story and much more info.

Hopefully, this gets you progressing for now.

Good luck.

.

As always, fantastic advice and I appreciate the time that you have put into your recommendations.

I definitely used the term "grind" in reference to any generic work using the Bench Grinder and WILL NOT use the grinding wheels on my knives, just "grinding" with the scotch-brite wheels. Sorry to scare you there.

I have been wearing eye protection and using a dunk bucket. I feel the part of the blade that I'm sanding after every pass on the belt sander and if the blade is warm I dunk it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have not let it get hot yet.

You can make the blade warm to the touch with one slow pass with the coarser grits. If you are not paying close attention I can see how you could ruin the temper very quickly.

I'm not looking for a mirror finish, just a simple Scotch-Brite satin finish and I'll probably go with the 8" Grinder for the $20 difference.

Thanks again and I'll keep you posted.

I'm looking forward to the pictures, VoxHog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

I won a Rat Cutlery prototype neck knife, should be here really soon. It is not coated and from the pictures, it seems to have a rough/raw finish. I'd like to give it a nice polish like that. Without using belt grinders and other power tools, what would you guys recommends for getting a similar polish.

The guy who polished that blade's forum name is "Soup_Monger". He is active on Swamp Rat and Bladeforums.

If you are hoping to duplicate his work, you probably need to contact him to ask his step by step process.


Here are a couple of his threads:

Modified Swamp Rat Ratweiler.

Modified Swamp Rat Mini Mojo


If trying to finish a blade by hand, you have many hours of work cut out for you.

Various grits of sandpaper, possibly Scotch-brite pads, and possibly various rubbing compounds are all possibly needed for results like Soup_Mongers.

There is more than one way to get the end results with finishing knives.

One trick I have learned while trying to get good resuls hand finishing my knives is I get MUCH better results if I secure the sandpaper or any other abrasive material to some surface and move the knife / hold the knife with both hands.

I think by nature most people would try to hold the sandpaper or other abrasive material in your hand and rub the knife.

Good luck.

.