I think they are tougher than 154CM, anyway. But then that is just from my own experience. I don't know the science behind it.

you know first hand, which is better than research.

I'm no physicist, but I do recall that while time is extremely important and I know that elongating the time *lessen* the force (such as jumping from a height and bending your knees), but where talking about steel here.

The steel isn't going anywhere and is stationary. I don't think handle material (unless really, really soft) can lessen froce. Even if the Res-C gets squashed upon impact (elongating time, absorbing force as you stated), Noss is still following through with his strokes.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, we also have factor in real life. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Equations are good, but there are variances with equation and actual events. ( <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" /> I should have mentioned that in my earlier post)

I think you misunderstood my post. shock isn't force. shock is a rapid change in force, and doesn't require or exclude motion.

Real life is that blade sitting in 4 pieces halfway through the test.

if real life doesn't match your math, then your math is wrong or not advanced enough. It isn't some kind of supernatural effect outside the realm of math or physics.

i dont have time to read all your posts so bear with me as i'm sure a lot of this has already been mentioned.

the ranger did better chopping the concrete.

the ranger didnt have res'c handles to absorb the shock of the lateral tang hits of the hammer.

both tips broke.

both impressed me and would kick my but before i kicked theirs.you wouldnt believe what a put my DFLE through 2 weekends ago with it performing flawlessly.even with the res-c my hands hurt for 3-4 days after.

both knives are tough as hell,affordable as hell,are owned by great people that i have been lucky enough to meet and if you do break them you get a new one for free in a timely manner.

two toughest knife companies for the money.i own and love'em both.

i like and enjoy noss's test but it almost sounded as if he had something against ranger knives while being a huge fan of scrapyard obviously with his almost 9min rant at the end of the test.

all in all good entertainment.i've been waiting a while for this one.

I think my terminology has made what I have said unclear. Disregarding what brand these knives are, the impact of the hammer with any object can range from elastic or plastic. In a perfectly elastic impact, no energy is lost. In the case of a perfectly plastic impact, all energy is lost. That being said, the impact of the hammer on any rubber, including Res-C is more of a plastic impact than that of a hammer impact on hardened steel. Think of it as standard pool balls colliding vs. rubber pool balls colliding. Due to the more elastic nature of the collision between standard pool balls, the balls move faster after the collision than rubber pool balls would. All of this really has more to do with momentum and impulse momentum than force. Going by the physics definition of force alone, we would conclude that the force applied by Noss's hand alone is what broke the Ranger. Why any knife would break from a hammer impact has more to due with changes in momentum than applied force. To clarify my point, if Noss were to use a standard claw hammer instead, he would have a much harder time breaking any knives because a smaller hammer has much less momentum than the 3lb hammer which he uses. Also, had he used a rubber mallet, he would have a harder time breaking knives because the impacts of the hammer would be far more plastic, or energy losing, than when he uses his current 3lb steel hammer. In the end, I don't think Res-C would have saved the Ranger. I love my knives from both of these companies! The real problem is that I don't have enough money to buy everything I want!

Actually, most equations (if not) in math, physics, chemistry are in placed in an idea realm. Such as the Van der Waals equation for forces within fluids. It only gives a really good approximation for the behavior of fluids but not exactly. Ideal Gas law equation even with the Van Der Waal forces calculated still only approximates nature of gases.

Real life doesn't always match equations (only under very slight chances and under certain circumstances do they actually come very close).

There are other factors that are involved. In a sense it is some other supernatural effect (which is probably why GUT and TOE didn't work), but of course not supernatural in being physically impossible (although there is a very slight chance).

Like I said, I'm no physicist.

they don't work because they are approximations to make it easier for you. That isn't math's fault and they are reductions of much more advanced equations that are much more accurate but much more complicated. Like I said, if real life doesn't match the equation, the equation is wrong or incomplete. Math is perfect. It can never be blamed for anything. Any time the numbers are wrong, it is due to user error.

assumptions are made in the simplifications. You have to know and understand those assumptions before you can properly apply simplified equations. I don't mean to be inflammatory, but if you pursue more advanced classes you will see the convergence of "equations" and reality once you aren't being pampered with over-simplified math any more.

I don't have anything in 5160 so I might grab a custom someday. They really don't excite me that much though(why I'd rather have a custom).

northern1: Your way off base. I don't have anything against Ranger knives personally. I tested the Ranger fair. I gave a long close out like I do some times
with many tests. Your grasping for straws. Did your hear me rant as you say during the test. No I did the tests made observations. That is it. I said the Ranger is not in the same class in regards to toughness and strength. At the end based on the test results.

You are now just attacking the tester and an not the test. Believe whatever you want.

noss,

it sounds as if you think i am mad.maybe i came off wrong,i dont know.

yes you tested the ranger fairly.i dont question that or doubt that.as a matter of fact i noticed that the concrete you used for the ranger looked softer than what you used on the scraper so in a way you gave it an advantage.

you also proved a lot of us wrong by hitting the tang of the scraper with out the res-c handles.

your right.you did the tests and made observations.9min worth of repeated observations which is abnormal for your tests which i know because i have watched all of them because i enjoy them.

so yes,i as well as others did hear you rant.now that doesnt mean you have something personal against ranger knives just like i dont have anything personal against you but i,as well as others did make the observation.we can always go back and watch the replay fortunately.

now for the record:

i am not grasping for straws.you are putting me in the wrong boat my friend.
i am not mad,sad or upset in the least at these results and i am not mad at you for doing this test,i am thankful.

i wasnt attacking the tester or the test.i did call it good entertainment and for what its worth i have stuck up for you in the past while in debates with such people as mike stewart.maybe since you are attacked so often you are hyper-sensitive to it.

i must say though that from your last post that it almost seems to me as if you want me to be upset.like you almost expect it by saying i'm grasping at straws and attacking you.that might be the case if i conveyed in anyway that i was disappointed in the test or its results but i cant find that in writing anywhere.

i have a lot of experience with these knives and have a good grasp on their capabilities.as far as comparing the 2 knives together i dont know if that is realistic.

s7 is high impact,high shock steel used for jackhammer bits as we all know.perfect for such a test.5160 is spring steel.not as well suited for such a test but capable with its reputation being for edge retention.

to me comparing the two is like an analogy i used on the ranger forum.saying a hummer isnt as good as a corvette because its not as fast,although a derby between the two would still be entertaining to watch.

so unfortunately i am not mad at you or the results of this test.i feel the test was fair and enjoyable to watch and look forward to more.i did find your speech,rant,close-out,wrap-up or whatever interesting and somewhat out of character for knifetests.com as did others while agreeing that it doesnt make you guilty of anything.

keep'em coming.when are you testing the scrapyard dogfather???

( Noss I enjoy your tests very much, THANK YOU. )

Not just real use tests ( edge retention, or whatelse ), but they give an idea about how far we can push some knives.

How much ABUSE knives can withstand? This is what this tests are for.

Well, the ranger broke in a test that S6 passed. that's all. clean and simple.
No doubts that the ranger is a good knife. It is.