Thank you knifers for your greetings,
I am also very curious about the Marines "test". Does anybody know where we could gather more information about it? I've already made several searches about it, but the only links I could find are from 2007 and they don't give away much information. We should open a new thread about this maybe... what do you think?

Here are the links.

http://kitup.military.com/2008/07/bark-river-brav.html

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=470241

http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19889

I personally wouldn't think a SY would be tested.
They were testing more "bushcraft knives" and I don't think SY are often thought of as "bushcraft knives"

I do not think the test were extremely destructive though.
they're made for bushcraft/survival, so I'm sure their was a lot of batoning, tip tests and cutting tests.

I don't think anyone knows exactly what the tests entailed though...
if anything. Mike Stewart would know...
maybe you could try asking him on knifeforums.

he is there often and contributes a lot.

I must say I agree with you about the cutting edge... if the edge comes all the way to the handle you would have more control than if you had to choke up...
and choils are never very comfortable for me.

Queulat: I don't think anyone was "invited"
lol
the military probably chose production knives that they thought would fit their standards... and they didn't tell anyone either so it was really up to them.
I think SY make great woods knives too though, but bark river's out of the box cutting ability is def one category where SY can't hang with bark river, and I'm sure the barkriver's cutting ability impressed the military.

According to Jerry none of the Busse familiy of knives was tested by that group. One of their criteria was an uncoated blade.
When this whole thing became public knowledge on blade forums it started the usual arguments.
At some point Jerry came on and said that he had spoken to Mike Stewart and Mike had stated that no Busse family of knives where involved in the tests.

By the way welcom to the yard

Queulat: I don't think anyone was "invited"
lol
the military probably chose production knives that they thought would fit their standards... and they didn't tell anyone either so it was really up to them.
I think SY make great woods knives too though, but bark river's out of the box cutting ability is def one category where SY can't hang with bark river, and I'm sure the barkriver's cutting ability impressed the military. [/quote]


You are absolutely right, they bought knives on the open market and then tested them for performance... and you are also right about the final purpose of the knife, that was bushcraft/survival. Something that makes me scratch my head though is that SY knives, having the performance that they appear to have, with a couple of slight modifications would make great survival knives. I saw a video of a guy chopping with a Dog Father, and it was absolutely amazing. I have an Ontario SP10 and a Cold Steel Trail Master both 9+ inchers and very thick heavy blades, but I don't think they would be a match to the DF... not even close. The only thing that makes me doubt about getting a SY right now is that what I'm basically looking for is a Survival/Bushcraft. The DF is the one that is pulling my strings right now.

Cheers <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

the DF is a great chopper for sure!
I would say to go for it...
or maybe go for the sod!

Well I am starting to come round to those inclined to ask for some evidence of this "off the cuff"....spent $5000 ( of their own money!!!) Recon Marines buying spree which resulted in the Gamekeeper being the last man standing.

Firstly...one poster pointed out that there is no government procurement contract arising out of this. My understanding is that all government equipment purchases are and have to be public domain records...so it is checkable. If it is not the subject of an awarded contract number then the credentials on which the knife is sold are very questionable....there is a lot of implication in the marketing of the knife that it is or has been properly validated and passed a selection for the Recon Marines issue kit.

The guy who hits the nail on the head is Cliff Stamp. Not a popular guy with some but you can understand why...firstly...there is a huge history of knives selling solely on the public's expectation that they have passed rigorous military testing.

The first of these was the "Bushmaster"...the people who designed it sold the design to Buck to make on license and were saying it has undergone Navy Seal Selection etc....which turned out not to be the case and if you Google the knife name there are articles to this effect. Buck eventually dropped the knife but not until it had cashed in and been bought in huge numbers.

Then there is the SOG SEAL range of knives as Cliff points out...I would be interested to see if they have any government procurement contracts for this knife....

Then we have the Bravo 1 and now a second Bravo 2...all based on a marketing hype which is officially "untraceable"...

I have doubts on some of what is said because getting any soldiers to "pool" $5000 which would be say £3000 of "their own money" to "buy knives" to test for a year....is highly impossible to organise in my view. Soldiers have a hard time agreeing on anything...whether it be the Pubs to go to for a "session" when back from exercises or "what is the best "buy" for private kit" of any description. Getting a "pot" of £3,000 out of a single Unit would be really hard to do IMO over here. Divorce, kids, cars and all the other main expenses in life usually have our guys living from hand to mouth. For that reason and certainly the current batch of guys...they all expect to have kit issued which works.

Those who do opt for "gucci gear" are like as not buying different bits of kit deliberately...I have seen loads of arguements as to whether "Danner Boots" are as good as "Matterhorn" boots ( they look virtually identical/ same specification and are very popular private boot purchases ) and since the guy who writes as Chris Ryan walked out of Iraq in a pair of Lowe Boots these are now also seen on a good few feet...and Boots are a bit of kit which truely does make a lot of difference to your day to day comfort. They are also an area where the issue kit has improved a lot as well...as a result of complaints by guys who could not afford private purchases...

A Good example with knives over here is the Survival Machete designed by the guy who writes as John Wiseman or Lofty Wiseman...this guy was the Survival Instructor for the SAS for 20 plus years...a "legend" in what he knew within the Army before putting some of it in his SAS survival book...even his knife has not been picked up as issue kit...why? To "expensive"...I guess...but it is infact quite a cheap knife compared to others...although dearer than the Martindale Goloks that still get issued....and I doubt it is seen on many Spec Forces kit belts...because whilst pay is better...they are like everyone else...AND if you want a good belt knife better than a "Treebeater" Golok...most go for an Issue Khukri...cos it's free. So if your Recon Marines are in the same boat as our Soldiers I am amazed a pot of $5000 would be do able. Our guys would insist the money came from Regimental Funds...which is like a back door quick procurement fund for gear...and I think most QMS would bust a gut laughing if you asked for £3000 to buy some survival knives...they would ask if bets were being taken on who could get theirs on Ebay the quickest...

So all told the story when you actually get down to it...sounds "Bull$**t" to me...is there any confirmation existing from the Marines that they did this testing?

As to the knife itself...I have one and wish I had ordered the model without that Ramp...it really spoils the way I want to use the knife which is the same as I use all my small knives..I have'nt used mine because of this being uncomfortable and in the way...but I would sell and buy one without this feature...the Knife is a "Good" knife.

A Choil was invented to aid in sharpening a blade. It was intended as a stop gap for blades before the bolster in folders and before the same in fixed blade knives. When sharpening the choil was there to allow you to NOT scar or blemish that part of the handle. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Only in recent years has the choil been added as a place to choke up on a blade.
And the added excuse of flexibility of a blade. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Humbug. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

In my opinion the choil is as it was in the beginning. A stop for sharpening the blade.The very thought of me placing a finger of mine along side the sharpened edge of a blade and wrenching down with added force makes my stomach queasy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Queulat,Boots, Welcome to The Yard! Haven't written to either of you yet,so welcome! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The choil.

You give it way to much power. Remember why it was even invented,and be smart when placing your digits inside of a choil and cutting. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />


Peace.

I see the finger choil as a way to develop increased precision, not increased force, on big knives which have all the force you could ever need in terms of chopping power. There is simply no way you can bite as aggressively into material by pushing the blade in versus swinging down at fifty feet per second or whatever a person can develop. But the bigger the knife and the better chopper it makes, the more awkward it is for fine work, hence: the finger choil.

Plus something else I've noticed people doing:



Bad! This is a "point leading" cut. The knife is trying to push into your grip. If your finger slips it's going to ramp up the edge and you're going to have a bad day.

Instead:



A "point trailing" cut. Here the knife is trying to pull out of your grip. If your finger slips, the knife is going to pivot back and away from your finger.

Excellent tip, but often overlooked momaw. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Great info momaw also great pictures that clearly show what you are saying-Thanks

Excuse my ignorance, but I'm quite illiterate when it comes to these things. What does OMFG mean?

I think it means " please edit post" - or something like that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />