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Re: .270 Win or .30-06 [Re: tyger75] #260927 02/03/09 06:57 PM
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macgregor Offline
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22-250 is a classic varmit round.
I'm surprised you never heard of it if your such a big shooter Clark.


JYD#49
Re: .270 Win or .30-06 [Re: macgregor] #260928 02/03/09 07:52 PM
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Steel Fan Offline
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Hi All,

Mac...yes stick with the Nikon...if it works...it works <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> Out to 300 yards is a great distance to develop skill...wind drift is negligible and you can practise positional shooting well...nearly all sniping comps for LEO/military do this far out and not much further...our McQueens comps at Bisley and around the country do stages at 200 yards and 300 yards on head shots. You have a Wall with windows and a "Hun's Head" target on a stick...you get timed exposures in any of a number of window's so you need to have the Mag power covering the whole wall...it's a great way to practise and develop skill...was developed back in WWI to train Snipers for the trenches.

Google the .375 Chey Tac...it would be another "mega" post to give you the skinny on it....basically it is a knecked down .408 Chey Tac Round designed to give further supersonic flight than anything ever done before. Google Barney Lawton and check out his "rifles" gallery...mine will be similar to those there.
I will do some posts on my rifles when I get the chance and you will enjoy that!

Tyger...yes I have used the 22-250...I had a Sako 75 Varmint chambered in it...and it is a great round. It is a bit "hot" for barrel life as it burns the throat of the barrel being slightly "over bored" in terms of powder volume to chamber bore...but is very flat shooting. If .22 centre fire bullets are the Max diameter for Varmint's it is a good choice...one of the fastest .22 CF's out there...I have a friend though who goes one further with a .22 Middlestead which effectively is a .243 necked down to a .22 calibre...barrel life is about 1000 rounds...I use a 6ppc for this type of work or a .243 and .243 Ackley...slightly heavier bullets...again I will post some pics of my rifles as soon as....

The calibre you shoot that I really like though is the 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser.
One of the very best calibres for all round use. I have had a number of these...and love them...one of the best/most accurate calibres for little recoil.

Recon...looking forward to seeing your rifle...go steady shooting and cleaning to break in the barrel...if you want any tips on cleaning kit just ask. Get a good cleaning rod rather than a pull through snake and always use a bore guide and "never" pull a "jag" back through after it has exited...it can damage the crown on the barrel...brushes are OK but even then I always just go the "one way" and unscrew and pull the rod back...keeps the rifle barrel "perfect" for much longer...a pain...but I have seen guys ruin barrels more through bad cleaning habits than from "shooting". Good Luck with it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />


JYD #75
Re: .270 Win or .30-06 [Re: Steel Fan] #260929 02/03/09 08:24 PM
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macgregor Offline
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Thanks SteelFan, thats what I'm working on.
After all, the fundamentals of 1000yd shooting can be taught at 100yds.

.375 Chey Tac sounds nice, I look forward to a range report.
I like the extra long bolt handles on those Barney Lawton guns.


JYD#49
Re: .270 Win or .30-06 [Re: Steel Fan] #260930 02/03/09 10:27 PM
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tyger75 Offline
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Quote

Recon...looking forward to seeing your rifle...go steady shooting and cleaning to break in the barrel...if you want any tips on cleaning kit just ask. Get a good cleaning rod rather than a pull through snake and always use a bore guide and "never" pull a "jag" back through after it has exited...it can damage the crown on the barrel...brushes are OK but even then I always just go the "one way" and unscrew and pull the rod back...keeps the rifle barrel "perfect" for much longer...a pain...but I have seen guys ruin barrels more through bad cleaning habits than from "shooting". Good Luck with it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Very good advice; anyone that has served in a military will agree with this info. Never use a bore snake, as any grit/filings/unwanted sediment from your first use, will potentially get left in the barrel with continual use of it. Good point on that one, SF. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I go one step further for my beloved firearms, like my Lee Enfield .303s, Browning 30-06, Husqvarna 6.5x55, and my heavy-barreled .22 Marlin rimfire... all bolt action.

I remove the bolt, and push the cloth through (one way), with a wooden dowel that is just slightly smaller in diameter than the barrel. I do this to prevent any unnecessary metal on metal contact with my rifling. Some have accused me of being a little too paranoid, but just see it as taking all the care I can to ensure my rifles last me my lifetime, and maybe longer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


JYD#70 Warning! There are more than just dogs in this yard!
Re: .270 Win or .30-06 [Re: tyger75] #260931 02/03/09 10:36 PM
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thanks again steel fan!!!!!!


JYD #59 1LT Clark Tucker OD, Platoon LDR US Army
Re: .270 Win or .30-06 [Re: reconseed] #260932 02/04/09 12:48 AM
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Recon...have a look at Dewey Cleaning Rods...with a 30-06 get a .30 calibre cleaning rod...the Dewey's have a rubber covering...as this protects the rifling which is or should be sharp...if the bore guide is loose use electricians tape to wrap the end to keep it stiff in the chamber...like Tyger's safe guards this protects the rifling...then you have a rod which should stay clear of the barrel...get a good copper remover to clean with such as Shooters Choice Extra Strength...when the rifle comes new...clean the barrel incase there is copper from the proof round in the barrel...all rifles are checked/shot from the factory...shoot one round then clean....2 rounds and clean...3 then clean...go up to 10 rounds and clean and whatever rough edges/filings are there from the factory will be a lot smoother and cleaned out without copper acting as a "filler" to hide the imperfections.

This takes the best part of an afternoon at the range...use Pro Shot patches if you can get them...a much better quality of linen...

Don't bother to sight in the scope and go for groups until the 1-10 clean is done...it should be easy to keep them in the backstop...get a Harris Bi-pod which is the articulated "Bench Rest" model and buy a simple "scrunch" nylon back bag filled with polystyrene chips...the Bench Rest bi-pod is shorter and keeps the rifle closer to the ground/table which aids accuracy and the back bag is versatile if it is a simple "pillow" shape...laid flat should be enough with the Bench Rest Bi-Pod...the regular one has to have the bag vertical and this induces more error for me...but everyone is different so experiment as to what is comfortable...place a towel under the bi-pod legs to avoid bounce if shooting of a bench...as a tip get some surgical spirit to clean away the residue of the copper remover after the 1-10 as this neutralises the chemicals from the cleaner...then dry patch a few times and go for your zero and check for group. My experience with Remy's is that unlike custom barrels...they actually work a bit better "fouled"...so I would clean only with a wire brush if the rifle is to be regularly shot until it has done 50 rounds...100 rounds later in it's life...then at these stages remove copper...some copper is a good thing as it retains consistancy in the barrel but this is a different thing to "filling in" rough edges if there are any...which should be smoothed out at the start. If the rifle is to be stored a while...clean thoroughly and oil inside the barrel...but always remove this with the surgical spirit on patches and dry patch before shooting again.

The thing with shooting groups is your breathing...get the Plaster Book and it tells you how....in essence...breath deeply and oxygenate your lungs then breath half out and hold it...then take the shot...if the squeeze is such that it is a suprise when the rifle goes off...it should be a good shot...remember to stay in position after the shot...trying to check for a hit etc...stops the follow through...when it works well the groups will show this and you will know then if you have flinched...we all do...so no worries...just minimise it.

Hope these points help....main thing is have fun! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

If all or some of this is known....apologies for rabbiting on.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


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Re: .270 Win or .30-06 [Re: Steel Fan] #260933 02/04/09 01:21 AM
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tyger75 Offline
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Quote

The thing with shooting groups is your breathing...get the Plaster Book and it tells you how....in essence...breath deeply and oxygenate your lungs then breath half out and hold it...then take the shot...if the squeeze is such that it is a suprise when the rifle goes off...it should be a good shot...remember to stay in position after the shot...trying to check for a hit etc...stops the follow through...when it works well the groups will show this and you will know then if you have flinched...we all do...so no worries...just minimise it.

You know the funny thing, SteelFan? I was given this very same advice about 20 years ago, when I first started learning how to shoot..... from my mother! Seriously! She was the top shooter in our area for the longest time; she could put a group of 5 in a nice tight 3/4" circle at 200 yards without even trying. LOL! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Go ahead, I know somebody wants to make a wisecrack about now! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


JYD#70 Warning! There are more than just dogs in this yard!
Re: .270 Win or .30-06 [Re: tyger75] #260934 02/04/09 01:51 AM
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Well your mother was a very accomplished shot! Women who shoot are often able to analyse and get it right! ...Nancy Tomkins...Mid Tomkins wife is one of the best long range shots in the USA and she is an even better coach....although Mid is said to be even better...I look forward to seeing them at Bisley in July for the World Championships...hopefully on our home turf we can pull a result out of the bag...I hope!!!!


JYD #75
Re: .270 Win or .30-06 [Re: Steel Fan] #260935 02/04/09 01:43 PM
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steel fan, i am book marking this thread and will reference back to it whenever i get my leuopold scope and begin shooting this baby <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> shes still sitting in the pelican BOMB case over here in the living room floor. you guys have helped me very much. thank you.


JYD #59 1LT Clark Tucker OD, Platoon LDR US Army
Re: .270 Win or .30-06 [Re: reconseed] #260936 02/04/09 06:41 PM
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macgregor Offline
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Yeah, great wealth of knowledge in this thread.


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Re: .270 Win or .30-06 [Re: macgregor] #260937 02/04/09 08:44 PM
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SteelFan, what do you think of .300 Win Mag?

Also, do you have any experience with this bit of kit.
http://www.arktisusa.com/MilitaryClothing/B220/
I feel like a mall ninja for wanting one but it looks nice.
DPM is the best camo for my area year round for both blending and breaking up the human shape, all or my kit is in DPM except for some nylon and a field jacket that is olive.
I wear the ripstop DPM Jacket Field regularly and I figure the arktis is a good upgrade, maybe something I can buy at the end of the summer if I have some money left over.
Of course shooting gear is probly a better idea, just wondering if you have used it.


JYD#49
Re: .270 Win or .30-06 [Re: macgregor] #260938 02/06/09 10:58 AM
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Hi Mac,

The .300 Win Mag is a belted case and personally I prefer a none belted case...which when you learn re-loading you will see why...you get much better case life and accuracy from none belted cases if looked after properly...but this is accuracy at extreme ranges...after weighing and batching cases...testing them with water for inner volume capacity and wanting the re-loaded rounds to be "clones" of each other. For factory ammo...it makes no odds...but saying it simple...you can seat a round which is none belted off the shoulder...just use a neck die and fully re-sized die after say every 5 uses and use them 15 times max if they are good brass. A belted case needs the dies tweaking carefully if you need to fully re-size to still have the round seated off the shoulder and not off the belt. They are tricky for extreme range and are not used by the worlds top shooters for this reason...they were designed for safe re-loading on dangerous game...ideally in a double rifle...so it is "horses for courses"...you can get belted cases to extract well if they are the rimmed type of rounds for double rifle use. If you are using them in a bolt action follow Tolly's advice and get a Mauser Action with a controlled feed bolt. They dont work well in large cartridges with a push feed system.

If you are thinking of an option for a second rifle for long range shooting which you can use in F Class comps which can be shot economically...as the .338 LM is expensive and whilst legal as a calibre in the US for F Class is not legal for international use...I would look at a straight .284 Winchester...it is a 7mm case and you can shoot it cheap with Winchester brass or competitively using Lapua 6.5 x 284 brass necked up to 7mm. Use either Berger 180 grain HPBT's or the sierra 175 grain HPBT...Bergers are better but more expensive.
This round won the US Nationals in 2008...so nothing is better in my opinion.
It is a custom round and would take a custom barrel but the round count is good with this round and you will have a platform to build skill on right to the very top. Bartlein barrels are near you in Wisconsin or atleast are not at the other end of the country...Tracy there is the guy to speak to...Kelbly's is in Ohio from memory and they can do an action...the Stolle Panda is good...a BAT action is better...they are single shot bench rest actions...a rifle like this costs a bit but then it is there for the rest of your life...and you can have multiple barrel/calibre options by simply changing the barrel. Single shot is no disadvantage when you hit what you aim at.... A lighter profile varmint barrel is a great all rounder...you can carry it and still compete...26 inches would be my choice as an all rounder and a half inch at the mussle on a straight taper. Similar spec's to many sniping rifles. Hunting with it is fine as it is not too heavy...

The Arktis jacket is used by some of our Police guys in Black....not my choice...here is a link to a company which makes jackets in Ventile...I went for a triple layer Ventile jacket which was custom built in forest green...it is a version of their Artic Smock with a full length zip and whilst not cheap gives 25 years of use and not 2 to 5. You want press studs on the pockets not velcro as it is too noisy...and ask for some spare studs which can be fitted at home by anyone...they are the weakest issue...but velcro really "rips" when out hunting at dawn and dusk. Mine cost £245 but is well worth it...I got some inside pockets done and a shoulder pen pocket...if you're interested they will remember my order spec's.

http://www.west-winds.co.uk/ventilejackets.htm

The sallopettes in the same colour are also great...if you wear a rucksack/deer sack the sallopettes stop trousers falling down around your backside when carrying heavy weights or when crawling...particularly the latter...they also keep your kidneys warm and over the years prevent a "lower back" arthritic complaint...again they are'nt cheap but worth it.

Forget rear back pockets...a pain in a high seat and if wearing webbing...plus if you use them the slinging of your rifle is difficult as is using a drag bag for the rifle for range use with your gear in it as you cannot carry it like a ruck sack easily...use webbing for heavy gear if need be. I have belt webbing or a molle vest which I can attach a Ghillie cape to...and kit the belt kit/vest out to suit me....the vest can take a Camel Back for water and takes my shooting sticks and my other gear. But this set up is more military than hunting.

However here is the web site for getting a good Ghillie cape without the hours needed to make your own...this lite weight poncho is best but you need to cut away around the bottom at the front for leg movement...do little bits after testing but you will need a fair bit off this to be comfortable walking...check out the other capes for an idea of what I mean. It can fit over a small rucksack etc and can be quicly removed and put in the sack so you don't scare the sheeple...makes a cammo jacket look like a hi-visibility vest...I use this with my Ventile gear so I can take it off and go in the pub for a pint and leave my rucksack etc in the corner or in the car...go light weight on this stuff...the heavy is "heavy" when wet. Hood up and simply crouched down on one knee and I have had foxes and deer come within feet of me if I have the wind right and have called them in.

http://www.ghilliesuits.com/paintballghillieponcho-1.aspx


JYD #75
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