I wanted to compare the medium sized survival type knives that are offered. These are not the big 9"+ blades, but the ones in the 7" to nearly 9" size. The small belt knives like the Bravo-1 and Yard Keeper will be done in another comparo.

First up is the new Schrade SCHF2. It weighs 14.5 oz with a 7 1/4" x 1 1/4" x x 7/32" thick blade of 1070 high carbon steel. It is made from one solid piece of steel with a hollow handle that holds a small tool kit. It is a hollow saber grind.

This is the BRKT Bravo-2, an upsized version of the Bravo-1. It weighs 12oz and has a 7" x 1 11/32" x 7/32" blade of convex ground A2 tool steel. Scales on this one are green linen micarta.

Next is the Swamp Rat Camp Tramp. It has a 7 5/16" x 1 3/4" x 1/4" blade of SR101 (52-100) steel with a Resprine C handle. It weighs 13 oz. This one has a full convex edge. Normal is a high saber flat grind.

Next is the Scrap Yard Son Of Dogfather limited edition or SODLE. It weighs 13oz. and has a 7 1/2" x 1 3/4" x 1/4" blade of SR77 or S7 steel. It also has a Resprine C handle. It has a full flat grind with a convex edge I put on it.

Next is the Becker BK-7 Combat/Utility, with a 7 1/8" x 1 5/8" x 3/16" blade of 50-100B or 0170-6C steel. Handles are micarta but it comes with plastic handles.

Next is the Ka-Bar Next Generation combat knife. It is based on the old Mark II, but in modern materials. It weighs 12oz and has a 7" x 1 1/4" x 5/32" blade of 440A steel. Earlier versions were Sanvik 12C27. It has a saber grind with a sharpened swedge and fuller. Handle is Kraton with stainless steel guard and pommel. The blade is coated.

This is the Swamp Rat Ratweiler. It weighs 19 oz and has a 7 11/16" x 1 3/4" x 1/4" thick blade of SR101 steel. It has a high saber flat grind with a convex edge. The blade is coated and the handles are micarta.

This is the Ranger RD-7 knife. They are now made by Ontario, but this one is made by Ranger Knives (Justin Gingrich). It weighs 16 oz, with an 8" x 1 11/16" x 1/4" blade of 5160 steel. Handles are micarta.

This is the SOG Seal 2000 knife. It weighs 12 oz and has a 7" x 1 3/8" x 1/4" blade of AUS-6 steel. The blade has a swedge and a flat saber grind. Handle is zytel.

This is the Entrek Destroyer. It weighs 16 oz and has a 8 3/8" x 1 5/8" x 1/4" bolo recurve blade of 440C steel. It has a saber grind. Handles are micarta.
[img]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w64/rivershaman/Knife/Survival013.jpg[/img]
This is the original Camp/Survival knife style. Originals were made by Hudson Bay Trading Co for North American use. This one is made by Bark River and is called the Hudson Bay Camp Knife. It weighs 15 oz and has a 8" x 1 3/4" x 3/16" blade of A2 tool steel. It has a full convex grind and micarta handles.
[img]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w64/rivershaman/Knife/Survival014.jpg[/img]
This is the popular Randall Training and Adventure or RAT-7 designed by Jeff Randall. It is made by Ontario. It weighs 12 oz and has a 7" x 1 9/16" x 3/16" blade of flat ground 1095 steel. The blade has a zinc phosphate coating to prevent rust. Handles are micarta.
[img]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w64/rivershaman/Knife/Survival015.jpg[/img]
This is the Ministry of Defense or MOD-4 survival knife. Steel is high carbon Sheffield steel as used in most British military knives. They were made by various contracters, some had convex edges, but this one had a saber grind until I convexed it. It weighs a hefty 16 oz even after all that grinding. The blade is 6 15/16" x 1 5/8" x 7/32". Handles are G-10. It has steel quillion that is soldered in place.
[img]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w64/rivershaman/Knife/Survival016.jpg[/img]
This is the famous Chris Reeve Green Beret or Yarborough knife issued to US Army Special Forces. It weighs 12 oz and has a 7" x 1 1/16" x 7/32" blade of CPM S30V steel. It has a saber grind. Handles are micarta.
[img]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w64/rivershaman/Knife/Survival017.jpg[/img]
Below is the Swamp Rat Chopweiler or more properly, Ratweiler Chopper. It weighs 17.5 oz and has a 7 1/2" x 1 3/4" x 1/4" blade of SR101 steel. It has a drop point and a high saber grind. Handles are micarta.
[img]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w64/rivershaman/Knife/Survival018.jpg[/img]
Last but certainly not least, is the Busse Sarsquatch CE or competition edition. It has a full convex grind and weighs 16 oz. It has a 7 1/8" x 1 3/4" x 3/16" blade of INFI steel.
[img]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w64/rivershaman/Knife/Survival019.jpg[/img]
So these are the knives we will be comparing in chopping, batoning, sticking, and general cutting.
[img]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w64/rivershaman/Knife/Survival020.jpg[/img]

and i anxiously await the results brother!

im rooting for the SOD and the Swamp Rat blades! that Chris Reeve knife wont perform as well as the busse kin stuff according to Noss' tests. it got AWFUL reviews.

Nice lineup Vic - I have most of them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Your comparison test should be very interesting, illustrating the strengths and weaknesses of each knife. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

First, let's check out the new Chris Reeve Project II clone, the Schrade SCHF2. At $40 to $60, depending on who sells it, this is a bargain based on the cost of cheap communist Chinese labor. But in this new and improved era of change, it seems appropriate somehow. This knife balances at the blade handle junction with the tool kit removed. It seems to take and hold an edge reasonably well. The knurled steel handle is an intergral part of the blade, all just one chunk of 1070 steel with some kind of gray coating on it. I touched up the edge, and it slices pretty well.

It can do curls and shavings on wood for fire starting.

After beating on a 1" soft pine sapling for about 20 strokes, it finally cut through. Not a great chopper, but it will chop. Chopping with the Schrade is an excercise in pain and patience, that only a masochistic kung foo artist could appreciate.

It does a lot better with the baton for splitting wood. You can beat the heck out of this handle, and it won't damage it.



The main strength of this knife is it is near unbreakable. And you could store matches in the handle. It does throw well for me, so it can be a weapon.

It might be a good knife to keep in the jeep or truck for emergencies. Trust me, you don't want to use this knife for very long unless you have to.

Lord have mercy Vic.

Do you daughters ever tell you that you may be spending too much money on knives? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I am in awe. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" />

Waiting with VERY eager anticipation for the battle.

I have two favorites in that bunch. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Let um rip!

Peace.

That's some line up Vic! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

I am really stoked!!! I can't wait to see more. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sweet! Can't wait to see the rest.

Ahh! A handle made to fit the human hand. This knife is lighter than the Schrade, too. It came with a scary sharp full convex edge and it is a slicing machine.

It notches, and chops better than the Schrade, and is comfortable to use. It batons about as well.


Balance is on the first finger, so it is lively in the hand, much like the S6.
It came with a nice leather sheath rather than the Cordura that the Schrade has. Of course, this knife costs 5 times as much.

Oh now it is fun to chop with this one. This is the Camp Tramp. The slight forward blade heavy feel makes this one a natural chopper. And that Res C handle is so easy on the hand. The CT bites deep with each chop.


And with the convex edge I put on it, it will slice as well as the Barkie.

Natually, it batons and splits wood well, but the handle is not as durable to beat on as the micarta one on the Bravo.

The Camp Tramp is just a pure joy to use, and it holds its edge a long time.

Well I could just say, "see camp tramp", as these knives feel about the same. The SOD is just a tad longer with a pointier point and a thumb rest. Instead of SR101 it uses Scrap Yard's S7, called SR77. It holds its edge well and was still plenty sharp after the use it got today.


The SODLE is a joy to use, with good balance and feel. And since it is made of the jack hammer steel that even Noss has trouble breaking, I am not worried at all about blade failure. Even if one were to destroy the Res C handle (squirrels will eat it), it has a near full tang that could still be used as a handle, especially with some tape or paracord wrapping. The SR77 steel is easy to sharpen, too. This knife carries light and probably can to the most work for the wieght carried (along with its cousin the Camp Tramp).

This is an older Becker made by Camillus, but it is essentially the same as the ones you can buy from Ka-Bar now. I put the micarta handles on it. Camillus sold them to me direct, and they bolted right on. Steel on this one is 50-100B or 0170-6C. The new ones are 1095 CroVan. Probably fairly close in composition.
It slices, notches and batons just fine, but it won't chop like the CT or SOD. It chops about like the Bravo-2, maybe not quite as well. The handle is roomy and comfy.Its big brother, the BK-9 is a fine chopper.



It is more of a combat/utility like the Ka-Bar Mk 2. It would do as a survival knife at least as well. It carries light and balance is on the first finger.

Speaking of Ka-Bars, this is the stainless version of the old Marine Combat or Mark 2. It handles light and while it can chop, it isn't really a chopper. It is one of those combat/utility knives that can do most everything a knife is supposed to do.

The sharpened swedge really ate up my baton while splittig wood with it. I beat on the knife pretty hard, but didn't see any damage.



The swedged point is good for sticking, and it did baton pretty well.

Ok, now this is a KNIFE! This heavyweight makes some of the others tested so far feel like fillet knives. 19 oz of 52-100 steel and a great handle, make this a real chopper. This is the Ratweiler.

This wood gave the others fits trying to split it. The RW makes it look easy!


This may well be my most powerful chopper in this review. It is heavier than even the Chopweiler. And it has that nice bowie clip point. I love this knife!
This knife can do it all. No brag, just facts. It makes work easy, and that makes survival easier, right?

One of the non-Busse made brands that impresses me is the Ranger RD series.
This is the RD7. It actually has an 8" blade. This knife will out chop the Becker BK-7 or the Ontario RAT-7. It is comparable to the Camp Tramp and SOD in chopping. It's a beast. Maybe not quite the chopper the Ratweiler is, it is no slouch. The handle is not the best, but surely not the worst.


This knife can baton with the best of them, and the clip point works well for drilling. The 5160 steel is pretty tough. I'd say the RD7 is a serious survival knife. No gimmicks. No nice fit or finish like the Bark Rivers. Just a hard working affordable knife.

Great job Vic!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I have to agree on the Ratweiler. I picked up a first gen Ratweiler recently in a trade and I just love it. I figured it'd be similar to my Chopweiler, but there's just something about that Ratweiler. Right now it's become my favorite!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Along with my DFLE, NMSFNO, SOD and........ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It has got to be the King Kong of this size knife review. I'm back from a little celebration in town. Let us continue.....

Now we have another combat knife that is usually considered to be a survival type knife, The Seal 2000 from SOG. As one might expect, it has a good strong point, to pass the Navy's point strength test.

This 1/4" thick knife did well splitting wood with the baton.

It also chopped surprisingly well. Maybe a bit better than the Ka-Bar.

And this is the best thrower so far today. Thunk, first try!

The zytel handle is not my favorite. Until I tried the Schrade knurled steel handle, I thought this was the worst for comfort. Navy seals are used to pain, though, so SOG copied a green pine cone for the handle design. But it is a rugged and tough knife with good balance and reasonably good cutting. It also passed the salt water immersion test, so this is a good choice for wet environments.

Nice, Vic. Enjoyed.

Next up is the Entrek Destroyer. This knife got a good review in Tactical Knives. I don't know why. Until I completely reground the edge it was a very disappointing chopper for its size. The handle is a bit small for me. With the thick 1/4" blade, it splits wood well enough.


It will even chop, now that I've reground the edge. It will do just a bit better than the narrower combat knives tested so far, but not up to the SOD, CW, RW or RD-7 performance.

I can't really recommend this knife when there are so many others in its price range that do better. It looks cool, but is a disappointment.

Here is a retro survival knife, a blast from the past. Mountain men and trappers carried knives like this from 1700s into the 1900s. It is the original "Camp Knife" design. And it still works.

Bark River's version is a joy to use. That wide convex ground blade is a superb chopper and splitter, right up there with the Ratweiler. This knife can chop, split kindling, skin, slice, and even do some more delicate notching and bushcraft. It has enought point for sticking and defense. It is superbly balanced. Its A2 steel is plenty tough for these tasks. This is the original prototype of all the camp type knives that followed, and it is a serious survival knife. BRKT got this one right and it is a great all-around knife.

This brings us to a modern version of the camp or survival knife, the British MOD-4 Survival knife. I don't care much for the balance on this one. The thick full tang puts too much weight in the handle for a chopper. It just doesn't feel right for some reason. The steel is soft for easy sharpening, a bit too soft. It dulls easily. It will chop, but for such a thick broad blade, I expected better. It is only marginally better than the Ka-Bar and SOG as a chopper.

Its thick blade does make it a good splitter.


But the point, if you can call it that, is pathetic. It bouced out of the log after a solid point first hit when I threw it.


But the knife is tough as nails, and it would be a realiable, if clunky, survival knife.

Now I know some of you have looked forward to me beating up and maybe even breaking this Chris Reeve Green Beret knife.I gave this one a good workout!
It chopped fairly well for this type knife.

I pounded it throught this hard maple. The swedged point chopped off my baton!


The tip of the baton went flying off, but I retrieved it for your viewing pleasure.

I got a bigger baton and hammered the S30V blade on through the log.

It took me three tries, but I finally stuck it. I thought the Seal 2000 threw better.

The GB survived it all just fine.

This brings us to the last two knives in the monster review, the Swamp Rat Chopweiler and the Busse SARsquatch CE.

As you might expect, the chopweiler is a heck of a chopper. That funny shaped handle just works for me. This is a serious survival knife.

And it is a splitting machine, just like the RW, CT, RD7 and SOD.
It has enough point to stick, but I like the clip point on the Ratweiler better.

At 17+ oz, its not all that heavy to carry around. I can't figure out why the Ratweiler is so much heavier, but it is.

I am getting tired. But this is the last one, the Busse Sarsquatch CE. It is a fine chopper and splitter. And a wicked slicer. The handle fits me just right, too.



I like the idea of less weight in a survival knife. And INFI is, well, INFI! But it lacks a decent point, so I'd choose the extra weight of the Ratweiler. Of this bunch, my first choice for a survival knife is the Ratweiler. If only some crazy man would grind a point on the Sarquatch. It would be perfect. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Woops, left out the Ontario RAT-7. I like the handle shape on this one. This knife can do a lot for its weight, too. It carries very light and compact, and it chops just a bit better than the BK-7.


I have always liked the RAT-7. I have one in D2 steel as well. It's a good all-around field knife, and a good choice for a lighter knife that still has a full tang and micarta scales.

Awesome Review Vic! I love knowing I have a couple of knives that meet the Horn Dog seal of approval. Ordered the Shrade, I was waiting for a review like this to justify the purchase of one. A solid piece of steel for knife and handle is a great idea, imho.

Awesome review, HD. Out of all of those I only have the CW - great blade.
I do have a CRK 5.5" sable. I haven't had any problems with the handle, but I've only used it for cleaning deer and such. (I did remove the butt cap, insert a hickory stick, and use it as a spear on a squirrel, though.)

The one knife I still need is the Ratweiler. Aren't the grips fatter on the RW than the CW? could this be the reason for the weight diff? It could weigh 100 lbs, and I'd still want one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Gotta love that bowiesquatch! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

The scary thing is, I have some more I found in that size. What can I say? I collect them. The Ratweiler, Chopweiler, SOD, Camp Tramp, Sarsquatch, Hudson Bay, and Ranger RD7 were all much more useful for wood chopping than the more combat oriented Green Beret, Ka-bar Next Generation, and SOG Seal 2000. The BK-7, RAT-7,and Bravo-2 were good survival knives and more versatile than the SOG, GB, and Ka-Bar. The MOD-4 and Entrek were clunkers that should have been more useful for their weight and style. The Schrade is the purest "survival" knife but a pain to use. It is certainly tough enough. Best bang for the buck, other than the Schrade would have to be the Ranger.

I wouldn't worry about meeting my seal of approval, Art. I am no "expert". A lot of it depends on the user and the terrain. These are just my impressions. For me in coastal GA, give me a good machete and a Swiss army knife and I am good to go.

There is not a lot of difference in performance between the HB, CW, RW, CT, SODLE, SARQ, and RD7. These are the cream of the crop. I certainly don't need them all. I am not well! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Wow Vic that is the most knives I have ever seen is a single review. Feel free to pm me if you need to get rid of any extra 7" to 9" blades, I only have one that size.

I hope the knife manufacturers cut you some kind of deal cuz it's reviews like these that make us go credit card happy.

That being said, when's the next one! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

That was my goal. Naturally, I didn't get into too much detail, looking at that huge pile of knives to do. I have a pretty nice pile of chopped and split wood now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Those RD7s are beasts. Justin's 5160 is known for it's quality. I wonder if Ontario maintains it?

We've all got the fever, some just have it worse than others. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If the the recent Ontario Ranger Afghan I got is typical, I'd say the quality is the same.

That's good. I'm glad to hear that. I hope the Ontario partnership works out for him.

Hey Vic- OK........... now it is time for your machete review <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />.Thanks for all the pictures- we surely do appreciate it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I did the monster kukri, golok, machete and bolo review last summer on W&SS forum. It was huge!

LMAO!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Great review Vic. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I love to slip those little remarks in a long post and see who catches them. You get a gold star, KG. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I will see if I can find. Great review Vic-Thanks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Another awesome review Vic, thanks! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Great review Vic. Thanks for all the great work putting this together for us!

Your pics line up very closely to mine and I am slowly putting together the "best of breed" in each size category with intentions of selling off the rest to good homes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In the 7" to 8" category there are three knives that really stand out to me and are my "keepers"...

SFNO - This has become my favorite knife lately, think of it is a souped up Camp Tramp (and I love the Tramp). You get all of the great characteristics of the Tramp/SoD but in Infi + get the durability and great feel of micarta + the exposed tang that can be helpful in some situations. If you like the Sarsquatch you really need to play with a SFNO. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Camp Tramp - The perfect survival knife if weight is a consideration. That being said, in a true survival situation I would rather have the exposed tang and don't want squirrels eating my ResC handle. If I had to pick a knife for hiking this is the one. I have to pick this one over my SoD by a whisker because I like SR101 for edge retention and the choil is more comfy for me. I also choke up on my knives so the lack of a thumb ramp is a plus.

Ratweiler - The classic Ratweiler is almost a category breaker. It lives right on the edge between this category and the next category of NMSFNO's, FSH's, and Battle Rats. The Ratweiler is a legend and deserves the praise. The clip point and finger nub on the handle is downright sexy and it chops way beyond it's size.

How does the handle on the RW compare to the CT for chopping comfort?

forgot to say great review (as always) and thanks! ooops

I think your summary above is a good one. I don't have a NMSFNO, but I don't doubt what you say at all, Vox Hog. When it came out, I was in the midst of my Barkie Bowie phase! And every time I use a knife in 52-100, whether it is a Swamp Rat or a Barkie, I like that steel more. I can't complain about the SODLE at all, but the SR101 does hold an edge better. Oh why to I keep so many and keep buying more and more blades in this size? I would get a NMSFNO except for one thing.....the M9LE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

They feel similar, RN. On either one, the handle is large enough to grip the rear of it for more snap and blade speed. There is just something about the Ratweiler that makes me like it a little more, but both are outstanding survival knives.

Thanks for all the effort and time you must have put in on this Vic <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Always a great read! Some interesting knives not normally covered here!

Have you tried your FSH's yet? Your views on these would be of interest <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I don't have a FSH. I did a 6" comparo back in 2007, I think. I compared the S6, M6, and ASH1 SE in chopping, slashing palmettos, and overall cutting. The S6 came out on top as best overall, the M6 was the best chopper, and the ASH1 SE was the best at palmetto slashing or machete work. Since then I got a Skinny ASH1 and convexed it. I liked it so much, I sold off my old beater S6 after enjoying it for two years.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" /> My mistake...I have got you and Jeff mixed up. I picked up a Ratweiler and Chopweiler to "handle" at Knob Creek and was dithering over the Ratweiler or a FSH for a bit...but liked the grip better on the FSH even though it was a fair bit more money...the grip on the RW and CW felt strange to me...I understood the benefit of the curve enabling a "rocking" motion when chopping...but figured I would usually chop with a fixed grip...not a loose one...but the RW was very impressive <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

SF, you have a NMSFNO? I wonder how well it does compared to the Ratweiler.

No I passed on the NMSFNO because they did'nt offer a Double Cut version...otherwise I would have probably got one...but having a D/C FSH also had me thinking I might be "duplicating" things a bit. However I think a NMSFNO would be less favourable to me than the RW...mainly on the grips...I did pick up a SFNO LE as I was more attracted to the idea of a slightly lighter knife with chopping ability...but the grips have the "wavy" hour glass shape and even though they are "smooth" I don't like a "swollen" palm grip...they give you "hot spots"...I prefer the standard grips on the RW which I held at KC I think to the SNFO LE grips...but I could change the grips on the SFNO and probably will do.

The "lows" are too low to "sand" the grip down to a regular size if you see what I mean...the ideal straight grip would be halfway between the peak and trough of the wave in the handle. There is also a lot of surplus weight in the SFNO LE handle for no gain...with a FSH you can grip at the back and lock in against the down turned pommel for extra leverage when chopping...you would need to use a lanyard to try this with the SFNO as there is nothing behind your grip to stop it slipping.

A SFNO sabre grind with the Ash handle would be ideal....if you see what I mean.

Cannot now decide what to do with the SFNO LE...whether to bead blast it and change the grips...or simply sell it on...but I am taking a fair old "hit" on knives I want to move which I bought thinking they might be better than they were...however I got this SFNO at cost price and to get a sabre bead blasted version with the old grips would be half the cost again...so doing the "mod" work would be cheaper...anyway...for me to go the NMSFNO route it would need to have the standard Mag handles which I can shape well...then be stripped...then be D/C...all told...about the same work to get the SFNO LE the way I want it...so I will probably stick with it. It is a good knife size wise and weight wise as a chopper...but D/C expensive satin finishes seems a shame to me...I wish they would do more D/C factory finishes!

Vox Hog seems to like the SFNO a lot. I don't know how different the NMSFNO is, but they are still in the store.

Vox may have the old sabre version with a Mag grip which some prefer or a "standard" grip which I definately prefer...those "wavy" hand shaped ones are not my "cup of tea"...but grip is an individual thing...the knife though is a great mid size light weight chopper and has the potential to be "perfect" once I get it the way it works best for me.

Are you thinking of getting a NMSFNO before they are took off?

I do think that a 7-8 inch blade with 18 to 22 ounce weight range is the best "all rounder" if you want some chopping ability and can carry it easily...I think a NMSFNO would be a slightly better performer than your Sasquatch...but I think you would hardly tell any difference between it and the RW and I think you will like the RW grip better...and hence the knife better...

I would rather spring for a RW put it like that...than a NMSFNO...

Well an INFI satin Ratweiler would be my perfect camp knife. But that NMSFNO with one of my convex jobs just might be the cat's meow. Besides, I don't have very many blades in the 7" to 8" size. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I could be doing the SFNO LE a disfavour here...just picked it up from my cabinet and to be fair the grip is not that "bad"...I last tried it after having done a whole day using a Horton Camp Blood which fits me like a glove...and this probably coloured my view. These grips are not uncomfortable...just different a bit to what I have become used to on my FSH's and my other knives...my NMFBM I managed to sand down the peaks a bit because the grips were deep enough to let me do so...so even those hand shaped ones feel more "normal" to me...but the grips on the SFNO LE are comfortable as I hold the knife now...I really need to do a good chopping session to find out...but have been holding back as I am not sure whether to "mod" it or "move" it. The Horton Camp Blood has me pretty much covered on a "lighter than my FSH'S" knife and I like it a lot...I did a review on his Forum on BF if your interested.

You are worse than me!!...and I need therapy! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'll check out the Horton. Thanks, SF. I just ordered the NMSFNO with the magnum machined grips. I figured I can sand them myself if need be. I am such a sucker for big camp/survival knives.

HeHe...I should be going to make a cup of tea before I do the same!! I am very tempted...

Vic, I think you'll like the NMSFNO I would put it in the same catagory. I like it and the RW a lot and the seem pretty comparable to me in overall performance.

Here's a couple of comparison shots...





As far as the FSH goes... Mine's the HOGFSH so it has a .32 blade, I'd almost put it in another catagory. I'll have to admit I've only used mine for sheath making so I'm not really sure how it'd compare... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />

I have to say too that the hand finished handles make a difference too. I loved the hand finished handles on the NMFBM so when I had an opportunity to get a NMSFNO with the hand finished handles at a really good price I couldn't pass it up. I've handled both the machined and hand finished on the NMSFNO and the hand finished is Sweet! It wouldn't be that difficult to do it yourself with the right equipment. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Great pic's Jeff! They really do show the similarities...that is a great collection of "ideal" knives there!

How heavy is your .32 FSH? My guess would be about 27 ounces? I agree it is probably up in the 10 inch plus category at that weight.

Thanks, Jeff. At some point I will likely order a sheath for it. First I want to see how much I like it. It might fit in the Spec-Ops my Chopweiler is in. Because of stupid rules where I like to walk, I need to carry my knives concealed, but I prefer large knives to dinky ones. What about a leather rectangular horizontal pouch sheath with a large flared opening for easy insertion for the NMSFNO? Is that nuts? Or maybe an upside down shoulder holster? Hmm. I really like the Bayley style sheath that my Bear Grylls has, I just hate dinky knives.

My SFNO is Sabre with the Mag grips and I like the Sabre a bit more than the full flat that I also have as a keeper. I almost always prefer the Mag grips as it fills my palm better and is more comfortable. I also use a relaxed/loose grip on my knives and the middle swell on the Mags gives me more control and feel than the flat scales.

The knives that I have, or have had and have moved/moving to new homes, in the 7" to 9.5" category are:
Hellrazor
Mini Mojo
Yard Guard
Camp Tramp [keeper]
SoD
SFNO, Flat [keeper]
SFNO, Sabre [keeper]
Sarsquatch
Chopweiler
Ratweiler [keeper]
NMSFNO [keeper]
FSH [keeper]
HHFSH
HOGFSH
Satin Battle Rat [keeper]
Battle Rat [keeper]

I have an opinion on all of these. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> This also happens to be my favorite category as it defines the upper limit of what I'm comfortable carrying on foot.

The NMSFNO and the FSH are practically identical with the difference being the FSH is a bit heavier since it has a taller blade and it has a little bit more of a drop at the tail for secure chopping. If I had to pick one between them it would be the NMSFNO as it is a few ounces lighter and the grip is more comfy to me while delivering the same exact blade performance.

The NMSFNO with an Overall Length (OAL) of 14" is actually very similar in use to the Battle Rat with an OAL of 14 3/8". The M9 fits in that same exact category as it is basically a Battle Rat with a Mischief handle. I don't know if the M9 can bump the NMSFNO from its perch but I'm willing to give it a spin. As for balance, the NMSFNO balances at the back 1/2 of the choil and the Satin Battle Rat balances at the front of the choil. I expect that the M9 will balance at the back 1/2 of the choil and will be functionally identical to the NMSFNO but in SR101 instead of Infi.

The NMSFNO is a fantastic blade and if you are on the fence, or ever wanted a FSH and didn't want to pay the aftermarket price, then you may want to seriously consider getting a NMSFNO while the getting is good. I expect it will come down in the next week or two to make room for the new HG55 series.

My favorite two knife survival combo:
NMSFNO + Active Duty (BAD) [more durable combo]
(or)
Satin Battle Rat + BAD [lighter combo]

My favorite one knife survival solution:
SFNO [more durable]
(or)
Camp Tramp [lighter] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

28 oz... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I'm sure having G-10 handles helps add to the weight as well.





Yep, you need a shoulder rig, maybe set up for ambidextrous carry, so you can get the most versatility out of it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well...it can get expensive on here!!....after thinking that I had'nt really got a "dessert" finish for my FSH's I ended up springing for a NMSFNO in sage and black linen machined mags...which I can hand shape for me...and for once I might leave the coating on! I have a RMD I got from Cold One I got as a spare and this has the same finish...so I might go with these two when I next go out.

That way I have a D/C FSH and stripped RMD for "Green" use and the above for "Sand".

Now I "need" to move some other stuff so that my "therapist" (bank manager) still thinks I am making "progress" with this addiction! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

28oz...wow!

For comparison:
FSH in micarta mags - 22.7oz
NMSFNO in micarta mags - 20.8 oz
Satin Battle Rat in ResC - 14.8 oz
Ratweiler in standard micarta - 19.5 oz
SFNO in micarta mags - 18.2 oz
Camp Tramp in ResC - 13.9 oz

Steel Fan, you are going to LOVE the sage finish. It's my favorite by a long shot and is very durable.

Nice post VoxHog...you convinced me... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have the exact same issue....I know Jeff is busy but I would love to see his design for your shoulder rig! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> All the good sheath guys seem backed up...so I decided to have a go myself...bought half a hide from a saddlery merchant near me and some other bits and bobs you need for something like this and am presently cutting and glueing "cardboard" mock up's to see what is the best carry option...the FSH's work well size wise for an inverted shoulder carry...but those Hossums are a bit too big...they hang too low for an easy draw...as does a NMFBM and a FBM LE combat... IMO...you would need a swivel design to pull the sheath up a bit to get the draw and to be able to re-holster comfortably in that size and that aspect together with wanting a "removeable" sheath/multi option combo has me foxed at present.

I have in mind a double rig harness like you would have for twin shoulder holsters to help "carry" the weight better and to offer attachment options for a "weak" hand draw which would help balance the rig by having two belt clip points either side and under the strong arm you can attach pouches for other handy equipment like...leatherman pouch and steel rod and ferro rod and a small torch...maybe even a small compass...or perhaps some of this stuff like a ferro rod could go on the sheath side...to be fair...that bit is easy...I have a number of shoulder holsters from my pistol days which I have used as "patterns".

What I want though is some versatile attachment options to enable a "cross the back Dundee" option for the larger blades if I am not carrying a rucksack...and if I am then they would just have to go in it...but to be fair...there is'nt much you cannot do with a FSH sized blade...carrying that and something bigger is unlikely for me at least...which brings me back to the issue of getting a good draw and re-holster ability on knives carried under the arm which are 12 inch blades ( and whether this is feasible at all? )...the handle is down where you would have a normal six inch knife blade on a belt carry...and I am 6"1 with a long back...so Dundee style I am fine...but underarm style the swivel requirement "foxes" me...unless I had some metal attachment swivel joint "custom made"...which I don't want to do as this makes the whole thing far more "complicated"...so any idea's are gratefully received <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Edited to add...after mulling on this a bit more...if you unclipped the sheath belt attachment on the inverted carry to free it and had an elastic strips between the two leather shoulder harnesses...that would give you the "flex" to swivel the sheath...so all you would need is a pretty good thumb snap attachment fitting between the belt and the sheath to free it on the draw...which is do able <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Just got to find the heavy duty elastic used in these sort of rigs... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I just ordered a NMSFNO in sage with black canvas micarta magnum machined grips. I don't know who porkerson is, so I blame VoxHog and Steel Fan!

Hey! You told me you had ordered first!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It's official!! It is an addiction!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Great info, VoxHog. So it appears that my NMSFNO will only be 1.3 oz heavier than the Ratweiler with a 1/2" longer blade. And INFI! Sounds like a winner. When it first came out, I wasn't that hot on it, but an INFI knife bigger than the Squatch and smaller than the FBM sounded good to me. Glad I ordered one before they're gone.

Yes...me too...better to snag one now from Busse than later on the Exchange...I may even pass on the Khukri if it is a monster weight! The more I try to "test" carrying knives...the more I like "lite" performers!! I hardly ever carry my CS Khukri now...I would rather "take a few more swings" with a lighter knife.

I think you guys will like the rounded (Nuclear Meltdown) edges. Makes it more comfortable and nice to baton with to. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />




As far as the shoulder rig goes, the ideas are endless. The dundee rig is handy and fairly easy to make, although I prefer the double strap rig that allows a bit more concealed carry. It's a little more challenging to make though.

Ultimately it would be cool to make the double rig that would allow you to attach different sized sheaths to it, but that might get almost too complicated... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Jeff, I have a Maxpedition Jumbo versipack ordered. Since I plan on carrying it on my walks, I may be able to figure out a way to carry the big knife attached to it somehow in a hidden fashion. I really won't know until I get it and check out the possibilities. I will definitely be getting with you soon on some sheaths. I will need kydex for the Muk and something for the M9LE, too. Thank goodness most Busses come dull so I can get some pocket change sharpening them to buy all this unnecessary stuff! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Sounds good, Vic.

And I have a Maxpedition Jumbo versipack too! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I like it BTW, I carried it the last time I went to Knob and on a hike in the Smokies, it was very handy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I agree that it might be easier to keep things simple...infact if I take my logic to heart...I probably have too many choices on knives....instead of being out there walking and using them I am usually dithering over which ones to take...then I feel like my "pants are falling down" because I have probably got three knives on a belt I want to compare...LOL!!

Sounds very familiar, SF. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I wear a wide heavy belt, but finally gave up and started wearing another belt on top of that for knives and such, it helps some... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I have several shoulder rigs that I use too, for certain things and it does help. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Lately I tend to like a all in one belt or shoulder rig that carries a kit, knife and water. That way it's easy to remove and so forth. I don't really have anything in the way of pics on any of it though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />

Once I just said to heck with it, and loaded a pile of knives in my rucksack. Man was it heavy! Nowadays, I find it much simpler just to test my blades right here on my own property. I can use a wheel barrow or the mule here! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I wonder what the camp commandant at the local park would say if I wore the baldric with a FFBM hanging on it and my Kimber on my hip. The over zealous cowboy cops in the county would probably send a SWAT team even though that would be perfectly lawful in this State.

Sounds some good stuff Jeff! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I once had the Police called out to check on me HD...I had travelled to Scotland for some deer stalking ...thankfully I had all the necessary paperwork they needed to see with me...wasted an evenings stalk though...turned out well in the end because the land owner let me have another two "tags" as you call them to compensate for the wasted evening and during the week I was lucky and managed to fill them all.

SF, your message inbox is full so I could not answer your message.

Sorry....clearing the box now...OK...box cleared <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I'm glad you guys ordered your NMSFNO's... I think you will love them.

I have an LE and then the tan with sage. I thought long and hard about the black with sage but I already have a lot of the tan micarta on coated blades so decided to stay with the theme.

Vox, how do you like the grips on the LE NMSFNO? Have you done any chopping with them? They appear to be the same as the SFNO LE....do they give you any problems?

The NMSFNO LE I got was serial #1 and I have not been able to bring myself to use it yet. The Queen status of the LE is the primary reason that I have the CG NMSFNO to play with. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I have used the hand shaped NMFBM that has a similar smooth feel and it is great, no problems at all. I think there is a slight tradeoff with the machined handles providing better grip and the hand shaped providing more comfort but I have not chopped enough with the NMFBM to really have a strong opinion. I would guess that the hand shaped would produce fewer hotspots during heavy use but that is a pure theorycraft.

If you order the machined scales I think that it would be pretty easy to sand them down if you decided you wanted them smooth instead.

p.s. - I just finished drilling out about 20 wooden beads and cutting 2' lengths of paracord to make new lanyards. I'm going with the Osborne Safety Lanyard style and using the forward handle hole so that the knife won't swing into my leg if it slips. Now I need to figure out a way to make it work for my ResC knives.

The point on the modified sarsquatch looks amazing! Did you do that yourself?

Yes I have the smooth grips on the NMFBM and took it out this morning to give it a good work out to see if the SFNO LE would be the same...the NMFBM grips are a bit bigger and deeper and I had the chance to smooth off the "peaks" on the grips to give a "flatter" profile which I like...I will post a thread on using this...crikey...the NMFBM is a "fierce" chopper and is balanced and not too heavy for me...I used it to chop down a blackberry orchard and netting fence frame...been at it a good 4 hours and have it all burning off nicely...just in for a spot of lunch...miserable cloudy day here...but the grips were fine...no problems at all...I think I was being a bit "too quick off the mark" having doubts on the SFNO LE grips. If they work like the NMFBM they will be great! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

On the NMSFNO I have gone for standard Mag's which I can smooth off as you say...

Suspenders helps!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Great review (as always). This is especially good for me as this is a length range of knife that I have very few of. In fact the only 7"-9" blade I have is the Yard Guard. For some reason I seem to gravitate toward the 5" and under blades. This gives me one or two to keep my eye out for...

This has to be the coolest thing I have every seen. You are the survival knife man HD! Love it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

B

Great review HD, you made the internet a better place!

My hands are medium sized and if I remember you saying at some point you had very large hands?

I found the SOD handle to be way more comfy than the original Ratweiler. It was like that bump was not big enough for two fingers but too big for one(I could get a finger and half in the grove).

Do you think the RW being built for larger hands is what made it feel the best?

Wow Vic.

I made it through all five pages of comments and well... don't have much to add. Great job as usual but even better than your best. The mass of blades all in common made it better than reading a half year of Blade magazine. And I know for a fact that you hold no bias when testing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Great job. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" />

Peace.

Yes. I really like my SARbowie. But there are similar sized Busses with clip points. I just don't have many Busses, but I had 2 Squatches, so I took a chance and it came out nice.

I would say that it came out REAL nice! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Great suggestion Tom! I dug out an old set of wide strap suspenders or "braces" as we call them from my "Duck Hunting Waders" and did a 10 mile hike today with the FSH on a rear cross draw carry on a belt and using the suspenders as well....a massive improvement...guess there is a lot of truth in the "belt and braces" saying we have over here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> They are not used as much as they should be!

Keep it in your vehicle with a multitool in the sheath pocket, and you are covered for a lot of urban situations. Just an idea. Make it a cheap multitool so the whole package is expendable. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Steel fan no pictures? On a different note I bought gieves and hawkes braces for my wedding...the dogs bollocks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I noticed the "new" stuff is ground a lot thinner, the tapers are very slim compared to the earlier stuff, you can not only see but feel a difference in hand, but I guess there's only one way to find out on the quality,, time to beat it up.

I don't have an original Afghan to compare it to. I have 2 RD7s, 2 RD9s, 1 RD4, and one RD6 from Ranger knives. There is quite a lot of variation even in the original Rangers. I hope the new Ontario Rangers prove to be as tough as Justin's are.

We have a new king in the mid-sized survival knife category. The new Busse NMSFNO with its 20 oz of weight and an 8" blade bested even the mighty Ratweiler in my chop off today. Long live the king.

well...looks like i need to spring a couple hundred for one of them.

Vic, how do these compare to your DFLE?

I didn't do that, but the DFLE has a great advantage, reach. It is lighter than some of those tested today, so carrying it means more blade for less weight. Just guessing, I'd say the DFLE will outchop all of these. More blade speed. A lot of it depends on how I use a big knife. I like to only carry one fixed blade at a time, and in some of the places I go, I use it as a machete, so a light 10" blade works for me.

+1 for me as well! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Great now I need to track one down!

Vic, I have decided that you are my new role model on how to retire. Lots of great steel, beautiful surroundings...some firearms...oh yeah!

Two questions, is the outlaw as comfortable as the ratweiler? Does the skinny ash compare well or a little on the short side for you?

As for me, I'm sticking with my camp tramp. Chopping/cutting ability, comfy handle and light weight does it for me. That, and I'm loyal as a dog!

I'm glad my retirement lifestyle appeals to you. I like it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think the NO is comparable in comfort to the RW.

The Skinny is a great midsized knife. It can chop, but not as well as the 7" to 8" blades.

As we have seen over and over, the Camp Tramp is amazing for its size and weight. It is really all the camp knife you'll ever need.

Vic, how about a 8 plus inch knife review? Khuks included? I will chip in a 2x4.

wow! this was a pretty massive comparison test. I think it should bumped for one more look...


Nice work Vic!

Great review HD! I need to get an NMSFNO. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

That's one helluva review sir. Keep up the fine work. It makes me want the Ratweiler. I just love those sexy lines. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Great information, keep up the good work. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Great review, as always, Vic. It's been too long since I've been on the forums.

It HAS been too long EMF - glad to see you back! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Hi Vic,
Excellent review.
I've got a couple of those knives (or similar):

I purchased at one point a SOG Seal Team Elite, same as the 2000, I think with black finish and notched top. For some reason as I was doing my research, I decided it didn't fit my idea of what I was looking for and sent it back. About three days later, I thought; what the heck am I doing? And ordered it returned to me. It is obviously not a woods survival knife per se, but the lines are incredible, as is the fit, finish, extended tang, etc. I even like the handle. It is a great personal defense knife and actually stays quite near when I sleep, so I end up seeing it all the time. The "cool" factor is way up there.

I also own a Ontario RD8, I didn't find much in the way of reviews on the www, but what I did find impressed me. That is one cool blade. Looks like a one off, the two grips don't even match color very well. It arrived with a crappy lop-sided grind. I was going to send it back too. But over a couple days, I became familiar with what it was trying to tell me. I cleaned up the grind, got it a Kydex sheath and it is one of the more cool and distinctive knives in my collection. I can barely get it sharpened enough to thin slice a tomato rather roughly, but it would look pretty cool sticking out of the top of a car (sorry for the graphic reference everyone). It is a great backpack knife.

What really surprised me is that it weighs almost exactly the same as the SOD LE. Very impressive on the SOD's part. In the hills "less is more" when it comes to weight of course, but you still need enough to get the job done. The SOD is 2" its senior, thicker blade, front weighted. It is going to be a Great mountain knife.

Bill

Great post HD!