oh! your right! I remember that.
it did look good.
I tried a patina on my 5160 ranger once and it came out pretty good.

I have to put some "Detailed" two cents on this "BASED on MY Experience ONLY" comments:


RS seems to think and tries to make it SOUND like SR-77 is WAY better at resisting corrosion than SR-101.

Personally, I don't think this is fair to some of the new guys around here who might be VERY interested in SR-101 or who might be afraid of SR-101 based on reading the REPEATED slams against SR-101's corrosion resistance.

I think we need to TRY to keep the comments more fair and REAL!!!

Corrosion can be a problem, but is generally just more of a "minor" headache - IF you "DIDN'T" know about it and know how to deal with it.

If you "DO" know about it and how to deal with it, it REALLY is NOT that big a deal!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />


In all fairness, SR-77 "IS" more resistant to corrosion compared to SR-101. But, not "WAY" better. And even if SR-77 is "more" corrosion resistant than SR-101 doesn't make SR-101 so BAD either. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

BOTH SR-101 and SR-77 will rust. Neither is stainless.

Stainless steels generally have about 13% chromium. But, there ARE other factors in what makes a steel more or less corrosion resistant.

ZDP-189 has 20% chromium, but it has SO much carbon, it will rust.

INFI is just a magical mystery steel with pixy dust (Nitrogen) and Vanadium which add to it's resistance to corrosion. And with it's use of Nitrogen, INFI doesn't need so much carbon. Also aiding in being less prone to corrosion.

INFI actually has about 8.25% chromium which is significantly more than MOST non-stainless steels, with it's low carbon, Nitrogen, Vanadium, and magical mystical powers, it is pretty DARN low maintenance. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> (unless you have a DECARB coated CE blade <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> )

But, aside from the VERY unique INFI and some other fairly rare steels, most steels can be judged by their amount of chromium and/or ratio of chromium to carbon.

SR-101 has more carbon than SR-77 (improves edge holding) and less chromium.

SR-101 has about 0.98 - 1.1% carbon and about 1.3 - 1.6 chromium

SR-77 has about 0.55% carbon and about 3.25% chromium. SR-77 also has a "Bit" of Vanadium. But, the biggest factors are going to be chromium and carbon amounts.

In reality, I can't seem to make any "MATH" formula work or relate to real world experience. I don't think you can start dividing numbers and come up with conclusive ratios to what is more or less prone to corrosion. At least not in many cases.

In some cases, it is as simple as saying more chromium with equal carbon = better corrosion resistance..... Start changing the carbon significantly and it starts getting more blurry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

All I can say is SR-77 seems in real use to be a bit better and more resistant to corrosion than SR-101.


If you leave your SR-101 wet for a few days, in a wet sheath, wet in a yard, wet in a bag it will rust.
Given the same scenario for SR-77, it will rust too. But, SR-77 will just have a little less rust. Or SR-77 just takes a little longer to rust in moist oxidizing scenarios compared to SR-101.

But, let's compare them to OTHER non-stainless steels.

1095, 5160, O1, 0170-6/50100B/Carbon V, L6, W2 and some other similar "LOW Chromium" steels ALL rust "significantly" and noticably faster than SR-101.

So, compared to ALL those VERY popular, HIGHLY used and HIGHLY respected/regarded steels, SR-101 isn't as prone to corrosion.... and is actually not so bad! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

So, to me, while SR-101 might take a little bit of maintenance to prevent corrosion, so does SR-77 if you are going to get them wet.

Preventing corrosion, is NOT that hard if you KNOW a given steel "might" rust if in a moist oxidizing environment.

There are MANY simple to apply and CHEAP lubricants that work VERY well on ALL non-stainless steels.

I like Ren Wax. I bought one little can about 3 years ago and I have BARELY scratched the surface using it to protect MANY non-stainless knives. Wipe on, buff off. DONE. And it doesn't take much wax or hardly any time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> VERY easy! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Also, I like Ren-Wax because it is less messy than oils and wax prevents fingerprints and messy smudging better than oils. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> But, that is just my opinion. Oils and lubes WORK and some work very well. Some people swear by their various favorite lubes. There are a LOT of options.
I use Slip2000 EWL for pivot joints and moving parts on my folders and such. But, I just prefer RenWax for corrosion proofing blades. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />
... To each their own. Whatever works for you. All good, etc.

Some have said SR-101 will rust "if you look at it sideways".

Like has been stated, it "WILL" rust and so will SR-77. But, saying "it will rust if you look at it sideways is misleading and unfair IMO.

For the record, even as resistant as INFI is to corrsion, it WILL rust as well.

INFI is the CLEAR leader in corrosion resistance compared to other non-stainless steels with INFI (generally) being almost as good as D2 and one of the best non-stainless steels I know of.

D2 is generally considered stainless, but often considered borderline as it can rust as well.

Although.... I have to say: the Competition Edge blades (CE) with the "Decarb" issues, rusted WAY more easily than ANY satin SR-101 I have EVER seen.... More than ANY blade I have ever seen PERIOD. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> - and I am talking about a DRY blade in a drawer in a house and NOT in a sheath!!!

My CE Hell Razor was sitting dry in a drawer right next to a number of my satin SR-101 blades when Hurricane IKE knocked out our electricity and A/C for a few days. During that period inside house humidity must have picked up a bit.

All knives were in a carpet lined drawer in my office. NONE in sheaths, NONE touching each other. Only the Hell Razor rusted. NO rust on ANY of my satin SR-101 blades. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />



For the record, my DFLE came with a rusted area about the size of a quarter on one side of the blade from the factory. And I have seen other "minor" rust areas on my SR-77 blades at times. But, in all fairness, SR-77 is pretty decent for a non-stainless steel.

Again, from my experience, SR-77 is just a bit better than SR-101.


However, there are a good number of popular non-stainless steels outside of INFI that ARE better than SR-77.

M4 seems pretty close to SR-77. But, M4 seems more prone to patina than rust to me so far. Vs. my experience has included more brown rust spots on my SR-77.

I have two Spyderco CPM-M4 blades that patina on food use so far. But, seem pretty good against rust so far.


M2 and A2 seem pretty close. But, I don't have a ton of experience with M2.

My only piece of M2 is a coated Benchmade 710. But, I have actually left it (semi-lost it) in a yard over-night - wet, dewey Houston summer night! and there was no rust on the edge or worn areas of the coating about 24 hours later. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />


I have used a LOT of A2 - and I LOVE A2. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> Most of my A2 will patina with acidic food pretty readily. To clarify though, when I say "patina" on A2, it is clearly a very colorful light surface color change - blues, yellows, grays, it varies. But, I have yet to see brown pitted rust on any of my A2 blades.

3V seems pretty decent as well and better than SR-77. But, 3V will get brown rust spots. Although, for the record, so far the only 3V I have had was Fehrman and his blades are bead-blasted. The bead-blast finish may VERY likely promote the spotting as the bead-blast creates "Pits" for moisture.


Believe it or not, I have listed MOST of the common non-stainless steels above. There are a handful of pretty uncommon steels not worth comparing IMO.

And if you read carefully, you will see that SR-101 and SR-77 both fall a little above average compared to MOST common non-stainless steels. I would say SR-101 is about average being above a LARGE number of VERY common non-stainless steels and again SR-77 is just above SR-101 with nothing I really know of being in between (maybe M4 again being very close to SR-77).

-----------------


SR-101 WILL rust and requires a bit of maintenance. But, so does SR-77.

However, both are more resistant to corrosion than MANY VERY popular and highly common, well respected knife steels. And the maintenance just isn't hard.

The bottom line is just "knowing" what you have, what not to do with it (like leave it wet) and knowing a few simple steps can prevent corrosion.

So, let's not keep blowing this out of proportion and try to keep it real! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

.

Ummmm yeah. What SP said. Nice and simple! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


I was typing all that time and missed that post. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for always being willing to put in the work to correct these misconceptions, KG <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

From what I have seen, SR-101 patinas very well, but typically with various gray tones.

A2 seems to have a much more colorful patina - as I mentioned above, I have seen blues, yellows, golds, oranges, etc in A2.

Two of my favorite steels with just subtle differences in function. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Sure... sometimes I try.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Other times I just silently bang my head and try to find a way to go about my day. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Even 304 stainless steel will rust if given the right environment. (high temps, or exposure to excessive chlorine or sodium chloride) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the info, KG. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

KF: yeah, I remember vics being a light gray/purple that looked really good.

they also help against rust don't they? (while they last at least)

btw: I like the post and I totally agree with you.

KG and others. I am not trying to make anyone "think"
that SR77 is WAAAAYYYY more rust resistant that SR101 - I have NEVER stated this. This is just the way certain individuals are taking it, if this is the case.

I simply refuted a claim that was incorrect, "SR101 rusts the same as Sr77." That statement is false. Period.

I have used both SR101 and SR77 and IN MY EXPERIENCES - SR77 does NOT rust as easily as Sr101.

Is that to say that SR101 is bad or less a steel? NO! I have never stated this! SR101 is a fine steel, but it is simply NOT as tough as SR77 and is more apt to rust than SR77. These are facts.

If you are excited about the new S5, thats great! You should be. Its a great piece of knife - definitely. But this "be careful not to spoil someone who is excited about the S5" stuff is nonsense IMO.

Bottom line. IF YOU ARE GETTING A S5, YOU ARE GETTING A STRONG KNIFE THAT IS FAR BETTER THAN MANY OTHER KNIVES OUT THERE. Also, I have NEVER claimed that SR101 is in anyway a lesser steel. It is a great steel that is backed up with great warranty and is made for harsh conditions. That being said, I personally think SR77 is better because it is a tougher steel. This has to do with my uses and i like having a steel that is "the toughest." I use my knives for more than just cutting. I pry, dig, beat, etc my knives and SR77 is better for these applications. Not to mention, it DOES hold a good edge, though not quite as good as SR101. Its a trade off really. SR77 is tougher, but doesnt hold a good a edge as SR101. You pick which steel you like better. Or you can always do what I have done, BUY BOTH and USE BOTH!

Im done with this thread because all it is doing is causing me to get wrongfully pinned for potentially spoiling some peoples' excitement about the S5.... which is nonsense. That is NOT the case. I have supported all knives and things that the Yard and Swamp have done. I just like SR77 better than SR101 and I am FULL WITHIN my rights to state this. This is a subjective statement and people should understand it as such. However, the facts are facts.

The way I look at it is...yes SR77 might be a little bit more rust resistant than SR101 but the SR101 retain its edge a lot longer than SR77. You can't get the best of both world unless you pay up (INFI). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

woah.
I don't think anyone is pinning ANYTHING on you. (not like that anyways)

"I think we need to TRY to keep the comments more fair" (sounds reasonable)

"I don't think this is fair to some of the new guys around here who might be VERY interested in SR-101 or who might be afraid of SR-101 based on reading the REPEATED slams against SR-101's corrosion resistance" (he just said that we should keep it more fair for the new guys... not that you are TRYING to spoiling peoples excitement)

"RS seems to think and tries to make it SOUND like SR-77 is WAY better at resisting corrosion than SR-101" (you can't deny that you don't do that)

Here is a direct quote from you... that you said to a newcomer asking about the s5 that I feel is a good example.
"its actually going to be a RUST MAGNENT bc its made of SR101"

that might spoil it for me, if I was a newcomer...
I doubt it did...
but just pointing it out.

But anyways, relax man, no one is pinning anything on you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />