Nope, the sander comes with a piece of rubber attached already. This rubber is slightly harder/firmer than a mousepad, but that means you can put a little more preasure on the blade, about twice the blade's weight.

Thank you. It works well and the fact that it's not attached to a bench or table means you can move around while sharpening. You will need to because that piece of Infi took me about 8 hours to re-profile... The Dumpster Mutt about half that time. I started with 400 grit then 600, then 1000 and ended with 2000 grit before going to the strop. That's why I want to know if the S5 LE will be convex, because I don't know if I'm in the mood for this again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

You have to remember, the amount of steel taken off is going to depend on the grit you're using. I'll be using a variety of grits, including the 15 Micron, which is the equivalent of a 1000x Japanese waterstone.

Look at the link below, and you'll get an idea of the variety of belts and grits available for something like this.

Lee Valleys' list of 1"x42" sanding belts

Not to mention the leather belts will do more honing and polishing of the edge than metal removal.

I'm also going to practice on cheap knives and lawnmower blades before ever putting one of my Bussekins on this thing. Maybe I'll prefer the belt sander, once I've perfected it, or maybe I'll go back to hand sharpening and stropping.

I've gotten pretty good at reprofiling and sharpening by hand, I've just personally decided to try something different. After seeing the work guys like Horn Dog have done with a belt sander, I want to take a try at it, and see what I can do. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Take a look at some of the vids out there of guys who belt sand their blades:

Knife and Belt Sander Vid 1

Knife and Belt Sander Vid 2

NOTE: The belt sander in the vids is the exact same one I ordered, and Hon Dog is currently using for his convexing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Gideon, I would think doing those edges by hand would really make you appreciate the fact that we have a very talented and generous dog who goes by the name of horndog!

I would also consider getting good with a belt sander so you can use it on your knives some day.
I'm OK using one if it's a slack belt. (much more forgiving)
After practicing on a cheap knife, I reprofiled my friends estwing hatchet on his belt sander.

I would think a hatchet would be eaier than a knife... but I got a good feel for it and found it quite easy. (I did a pretty good job too!)

When reprofiling an edge, is it just as simple as using aggressive grits and progressivly moving to finer grits and just continuous drawing on the "flat" edge?

I reprofiled my mini uncle mojo to a much deeper convex edge, using the mousepad and sandpaper trick. It had some deep gouges in the blade from trying to baton through a hardened masonry nail in a log, so I had to remove a LOT of material. I started with 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper and worked my way down to 2000 grit finish paper. If I wasn't trying to remove tons of steel to get past those gouges, I probably would have started finer.

FWIW, I use a course 6 inch smith diamond hone and a fine dmt folder. Not the edge a lot of folks here get but works good for me. This way I don't worry all that much about hitting rocks and stuff as I can get out bad spots pretty easily. Oh, I also strop on a cardboard notepade backer, works better than you would think!

Is 400 a good grit to start at if reprofiling?

When doing a "Significant" amount of reprofiling, I personally start with a much more aggressive grit than 320 or 400.

.... and 220 and 150 (better for some Busse and kin profiles <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) are MUCH faster and much more aggressive.

To me, 320 and 400 will "remove" steel, but not aggressively enough or fast enough - **** Depending on the amount of profiling needed!!! - (At least not on most of my Busse and kin profiles and based on me not wanting to spend HOURS reprofiling!!!).

To me, 320 and 400 are more along the lines of aggressive sharpening and VERY mild reprofiling.

If I have a smaller knife with a vey fine secondary bevel (say some folders), I would just go to 320 - 400.

But, even on MOST folders that I want to convex, I still tend to start off with my 220 - *** And this is on my belt sander which is WAY Faster and WAY more aggressive. But, that is also with having some practice on those grits.

I am pretty confident a number of makers probably use 80 - 100 grit for a LOT of profiling and primary grinding as it is WAY faster. - I would BET many use 40-60 grit or so for a fair amount of primary grinding as well.

I have to be honest (in my "Opinion" - and admit I could be wrong!!!!), but SO many of my Busse and kin blades have such a DEEP & "Toothy" scratch pattern on their edges, I tend to "Believe" (read: "Assume") that Busse profiles and sharpens in one step, one belt and one grit (????). And I believe/"Assume" that grit could likely be around 220 or even (quite possibly "IMO") 150 grit. All I know is that when I put a blade on "MY" 220 grit belts, my 220 grit belts leave a finer polish than most of my factory Busse and kin edges come with.

In all fairness, I know a few people who will sharpen/convex with 220 grit and then just hit the very edge quickly with a compound loaded strop. Not as pretty, shiny and polished, but for a lot of cutting uses, it "can be" fast, easy and effective. ... personal preferences. I like shiny edges! and satin blades!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

However, conversely, if someone doesn't have much experience with re-profiling by hand, using 320-400 might be worth considering as a "Conservative" - albiet "TIME-Consuming" approach.

For you lucky guys who have a new Kalamazoo (especially if you haven't used it much) - you will want to practice to get a feel for what works best. I am still using my OLD Delta with 1"x36" belts. The Kalamazoo is faster and more powerful. So, take care. But, it is also "Smoother"!!! And smoother running belts helps eliminate a lot of effort I have to use to avoid mistakes on my rougher running belts.

Some blades need a LOT of reprofiling. I am not going to "Sharpen" my profile for hours.

**** Also, if using a powered belt sander, the finer grits (** Especially old worn belts!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> ) tend to heat up the blades faster - more friction heating like brake pads and less "Cutting" than the new sharp grits.

I use 220 on my belt sander, and I could probably use 150 - to even 100 on some VERY obtuse profiles.

The bottom line is faster and less work - ESPECIALLY if doing by hand.

However, you will have to work back down through the grits to get it polished and sharp.

Keep in mind that grit of paper or belts breaks down, so with use, your grits are getting finer and finer and less aggressive.

If doing by hand, I think it is more efficient to have a LARGER variety of grits without skipping grits in between.

By going with proper consecutive grits in order (ie: 220, 320, 400, 600, 800 and so on), you will be more efficient at removing scratches from previous grits.

To polish, you need to remove the previous grits.

Especially if doing it by hand and especially if the steel is VERY hard (like ZDP or something - 154CM is pretty "Scratch" resistant as well), you DON'T want to go from 220 to 600 or 150 to 400 or similar. 600 would take FOREVER to remove scratches from 220. So, use the grits in between for efficiency (faster and easier!).


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It might be worth noting that the aggressive grits (like 150 - 220) will scratch coatings and satin finishes MUCH easier than finer grits like 400 and finer.

A lot of satin finishes (primary grinds) are often finished (or seem to me to be finished) somewhere between 320 - 400.


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Personally, I DON'T have the patience to reprofile by hand on a hand sander for 8 hours or so. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> - And KUDOS to Gideon - those are very nice profiles for using a hand sander like that. You and "Soup_Monger" should get together for a few weeks of hand sanding. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I don't believe I could keep my profile as consistant with a hand sander like that - as I can with a belt sander - (er.... with LOTS of practice on my belt sander anyway! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

On most blades, it is much easier for me to keep my grinds consistant on a belt sander by simple controlled movements of my blade across the belt sander vs. SO many variables in angles and movements I experience when moving the entire blade up and down a manual strop system.

Make no mistake, for a large majority who are first timers with a belt sander, there IS a learning curve and I have to recommend PRACTICE on cheap knives (lawn mower, edger blades, and similar) at first. But, after the learning curve, the belt sander is WAAAAAYYYYYYY Faster and easier. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

On the other hand, some people seem to like the "ZIN" experience of hand stropping for weeks at a time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

.

KG: I don't consider myself a Zen kinda person, but when I am sharpening a blade, once I get it to the angle I am used to, I just zone out and listen to the sound it makes and the feel of the blade sliding over the hone. Maybe I been doin this to long?

Skunk Hunter, most of us achieve that zone out state with a couple good drinks.

Save some time, get a belt sander, a good bottle of whiskey, and join us on the back deck! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That sounds good to me too, Tyger... Plus One on the Sander... and the drinks! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />