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Re: knive sharpining [Re: KnifeGuy] #275806 07/17/09 05:42 PM
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digthisbigcrux Offline
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thanks knife guy for the always detailed reply, as well as the links. Perhaps I got my terminology wrong as I always thought the belly of the knife was the curved portion leading up to the tip.

As for practicing on cheap knives thats the route Ive been going now. I was able to get a nice convex edge out of a Jeff White muk that I got on ebay for 20 bucks. The edge was about as sharp as the spine when I got it...

[Linked Image from i732.photobucket.com]

[Linked Image from i732.photobucket.com]


I also got lucky with my YKLE...and it came out great

[Linked Image from i732.photobucket.com]


[Linked Image from i732.photobucket.com]


But I tried with my ScrapMuk and never could get it quite right. Ended up sending it off to HornDog to correct. Right now I'm beating the heck out of a BlackJack grunt on some hard maple...and I'll practice bringing that edge back


you can call me digs
Re: knive sharpining [Re: digthisbigcrux] #275807 07/17/09 07:14 PM
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Bushman5 Offline
Junk Yard Dog
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anyone else having issues trying to sharpen 154CPM???? (my ZT 0200 blade) i've tried autobody papers with mousepad, water stones, oil stones, ceramic stomes, diamond steels.....cant get any edge on it.....is it that tough to sharpen?


JUNKYARD DAWG #86
Re: knive sharpining [Re: digthisbigcrux] #275808 07/17/09 08:44 PM
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KnifeGuy Offline
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Quote
Perhaps I got my terminology wrong as I always thought the belly of the knife was the curved portion leading up to the tip.

It sounds like we are on the same page. I would define the "Belly" as the curved portion leading to the tip. On a Muk like shown in your pictures, I would call the belly about 95% of the edge.

I am not sure where or what caused us to loose understanding.

When I stated most people don't seem to have as much problem with the belly, I am pretty much saying that for most people the belly or any flat straight portion of a blade are pretty comparable for sharpening. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Tips are harder for a lot of people - especially with belt sanders because they tend to mis-shape the tips in various ways when sharpening.

154 IS indeed harder to sharpen. You have to have good quality abrasives. Some abrasive media "Cut" steel better than other media.

Cheap belts are often designed for primarily cutting wood and don't always cut the hard carbide type steels very well.

I think a common problem with certain steels that are just a bit too hard for the belts is to push just a little bit more causing too much rounding of the edge. Hard to explain. In the end, you have to have belts that cut the steel. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

SR-77 and most of the simple carbon non-stainless steels like 1095 and O1 are VERY easy to sharpen well - even with cheap hardware store belts and basic compounds. SR-101 is just a very small bit harder feeling on the grits, but just as easy for me to get a good edge on it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I think with 154CM and some of the exotic VERY hard stainless steels you really have to have GREAT abrasives.

Other than your ScrapMuk (????), your other Muk and YKLE look pretty good to me. I think you must have the technique down pretty well. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

.


JYD #39 I prefer "SATIN" blades!!!
Re: knive sharpining [Re: Bushman5] #275809 07/17/09 08:49 PM
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KnifeGuy Offline
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Quote
anyone else having issues trying to sharpen 154CPM???? (my ZT 0200 blade) i've tried autobody papers with mousepad, water stones, oil stones, ceramic stomes, diamond steels.....cant get any edge on it.....is it that tough to sharpen?

I was able to get a good edge on my MPLE, but in all honesty it was NOT easy. I had to work at it about 3-4 times harder than SR-101 or SR-77.

I need new belts myself.

I don't know what to tell you with you having tried so many types of sharpening media (???). Most sandpaper, stones and diamonds for sure SHOULD still cut 154CM.

It is a bit hard to make recommendations. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

.


JYD #39 I prefer "SATIN" blades!!!
Re: knive sharpining [Re: KnifeGuy] #275810 07/17/09 08:54 PM
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MustardMan Offline
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I found the 154CM on the Muk to be not terribly difficult to work on my belt sander, but I started at I think 160 or 180 grit, as I was reprofiling it to a convex edge. I never tried that particular steel by hand so I can't give any insight into that, but I didn't notice much of a difference from other steels.

I should point out, though, that all of my belts are pretty new, and that probably had a lot to do with it. I also am a lot less likely to notice the differences on a sander where reprofiling is measured in minutes, as opposed to doing it by hand where it's measured in hours.

Re: knive sharpining [Re: MustardMan] #275811 07/17/09 09:11 PM
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Bushman5 Offline
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maybe its the fact that i'm using 800 and up (to 2000) grit autobody papers

i should zip out and grab some lower grits...


JUNKYARD DAWG #86
Re: knive sharpining [Re: Bushman5] #275812 07/18/09 02:04 AM
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polarbare Offline
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For those looking to do the sandpaper mousepad technique, search on amazon.com for those higher grit papers - they are a lot cheaper than at the auto parts store. After I had bought some, I went ahead and got a belt sander and the appropriate belts - it's so much faster. It's also real easy to mess up a blade on a belt sander, so do practice with junk knives first (even then, I burnt the tip on my DMDC as I was too aggressive the other nite <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> )

Re: knive sharpining [Re: KnifeGuy] #275813 07/18/09 02:17 AM
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SOUTHSTAR Offline
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Southstar,

Home Depot primarily only carries sandpaper for working on wood with. I frequent Home Depot and Lowes pretty regularly. I generally only see up to 400.

In any event, 600 isn't that smooth compared to most knife sharpening media.

600 "WILL" sharpen though and 400 - 600 are pretty decent grits for still cutting steel at a noticable rate, but they tend to leave a toothy edge.

To get a quality, fine, polished, shaving, push-cutting edge, you will need to go to finer grits.

For sandpaper finer than 400 (finer than 600 in your case), you will need to go to an "Auto" parts store. Most auto-parts stores carry 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000 and sometimes 2500 grit sandpaper.

I have tried these fine sandpapers and they do work, but quite honestly, they are NOT worth the cost. IMO, sandpaper starts loosing it's value at about 600 - 800 grit.

The problem with the high/fine grit sandpapers is that they cost a LOT more than the sandpaper you can buy at Home Depot and you get smaller sheets for the higher cost = a LOT higher cost.

But, it gets worse, the grits on the finer sandpaper don't even last as long as the coarser grit sandpapers - so, you also get less wear/usage/mileage out of the finer grit sandpapers.

In the end, it is WAY worth doing just a bit of research and planning to buy or make yourself a leather strop and use the "compounds" for abrasives instead of the fine grit sandpapers.

The compound abrasives cost a bit more up-front, but they last WAY longer than sandpaper and quickly start adding up to significant savings.

Also, IMO, the compounds on leather actually work better and more of a joy to use.

One other minor little bonus, the compounds are wax based and help hold some of the grind residue. While both make their own sort of mess, I find the compounds a LOT less messy. I often like to strop in my den while in front of the TV. I actually recommend watching your knife when stropping, but I find I can sort of do both. When I have used sandpaper, I spread out newspaper on a little folding table or similar and still end up with a big "Dusty" mess. The strop still makes a smaller mess, but mainly not nearly as dusty.

Buying a leather strop is not real expensive, but it is an investment that should last for MANY years. And if you don't want to pay $25 - $40 for pre-made strop, you can make your own out of very inexpensive materials. Making a leather strop is as simple as cutting to shape and gluing a decent piece of leather onto a board. All you have to do is decide what size and shape strop you want and where to find a decent piece of leather for a strop.

Some choppers need a bit of sanding to true some dents and rolls. But, once most knives have a good edge, they tend to just need a few quick passes on a leather strop to stay shaving sharp.

Anyway,.... I have written and rambled enough about this in the past:

Sharpening Thread


.



Thanks for the info i appreciate it. I will look into it further. I have been experimenting with a cheap stainless blade i have and it is taking a while on the stainless. Rendering the sandpaper useless like you said in a matter of seconds. It is going to be expensive this way so i will deffinitely look into stropping.

Re: knive sharpining [Re: polarbare] #275814 07/18/09 02:19 AM
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SOUTHSTAR Offline
Mutt
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Quote
For those looking to do the sandpaper mousepad technique, search on amazon.com for those higher grit papers - they are a lot cheaper than at the auto parts store. After I had bought some, I went ahead and got a belt sander and the appropriate belts - it's so much faster. It's also real easy to mess up a blade on a belt sander, so do practice with junk knives first (even then, I burnt the tip on my DMDC as I was too aggressive the other nite <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> )


Speaking of cheap blades can anyone reccomend a cool cheap blade that would be worth keeping even after testing my sharpening skills on it. Prefferably under $20.00

Re: knive sharpining [Re: SOUTHSTAR] #275815 07/18/09 02:20 AM
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Little Green Men Offline
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I just ordered the Bark River Strop and Compound from knivesshipfree..after seeing all the wicked edges you guys get with stroping made me want to try my hand at it.

Re: knive sharpining [Re: Little Green Men] #275816 07/18/09 02:46 AM
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SOUTHSTAR Offline
Mutt
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I just ordered the Bark River Strop and Compound from knivesshipfree..after seeing all the wicked edges you guys get with stroping made me want to try my hand at it.


Can someone clear up if the strop can reprofile to convex or if its just for touching up?

Re: knive sharpining [Re: SOUTHSTAR] #275817 07/18/09 02:58 AM
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KnotSlip Offline
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SS- Strop is for touching up - you can't re-profile a blade with it - or if you could it would take a LONG time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

A good practice knife for sharpening is the Cheaper Than Dirt tough knife and the Tramontina machetes. HD made me aware of the latter. The tough knives are $10 and keepable afterwards.


KS JYD #93 "Life's too short..."
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