Bush - thanks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ... you should see my BOB <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

As of lately I have been thumbing through the pages of google, and youtube and looking at peoples packs. and some of them you can tell have never used the products in their pack.

and some of them you can tell some of them get used but others don't. but my biggest thing is deciphering who knows what, and how to take advice from them?

I know what I can do and what I have found to be useful but this changes, not all the time nor on a regular basis but over time, I have found what works for me.

And I know about rucking a pack through the hills, if you have ever been to Red Willow WMA, it is a canyon region of our state. big hills lots of walking, but I only make it out there once a year.

But as far as a SHTF situation going on, I believe I would be at a disadvantage, I would like to think that with my hunting skills and abilities I would be Okay, but looking at it in reality, going hunting and coming back when the sun goes down is relatively easy/ comparatively speaking, as long as you can walk with a little weight.

And I have been camping in "remote" areas but always had a truck/4wheeler nearby.

Ive also contemplated taking my stuff out to the farm and sitting up a tent in the woods, and just be out there by myself for a weekend just to see what I can make of it. It would not be remote,there is a town within 20 minutes, but it would be a test...

the reason I haven't done that yet, is because I would have to take all my water with me, there is no such thing as drinking out of the lakes or streams around there, it is all farm land and lots of pesticides, herbicides, and anhydrous that gets sprayed onto the fields. and I don't have a water purification system that would get rid of these.

the way I see it is this, and please correct me if I'am wrong: a GHB and BOB are some what the same thing, I am imagining that if you had to get home because of an emergency the roads may be clogged, and you may have to do it on foot. which means you may or may not make it home in 24 hrs, or less depending on how far away from work and what the situation is. So you may be living out of your pack for a little while, and in the woods or in an urban environment.

When I have time to put it together. These posts are pretty time consuming.

[color:"red"] There have been some questions about the difference between a "GHB" and "BOB" at the Swamp. There have also been questions as to whom to believe when researching survival gear. I wanted to bring my responses to these questions here for my fellow Dawg's................. [/color]


Questions from SwampRat:




My response:


I've only been on one "real" hike so far this year! This weekend the Mrs and I are going for around a 6-8 mile. In May I'll be going on a four or five day car camping trip with at least one overnight hike.

I'm going to address some of your questions / concerns in no particular order:

1) I started sneaking out into the woods with my uncle in 1983. We wore full military clothing and gear...complete with military rifles. Our "hiking" trips usually occurred on a friendly WW2 vet's property (he tasked us with policing his farm at night). During that time period there weren't many "survival situations" - mostly just confrontations with irritated bulls and/or drunk (or crazy) neighbors. When we (myself; my uncle; his best friend) weren't at the WW2 Vet's property we were either: A) at a paranoid survivalist's house discussing what is now referred to as the NWO; B) driving around the country to gun shows; C) at one of the many survivalist friendly "Surplus & Gun Stores" around our area; etc. Our entire lives revolved around this one area. In '85 my uncle's friend joined the Army and was sent to the Korean DMZ - effectively ending this period. In '86 I met and befriended a guy named Justin. He was interested in the same things as I was. His mom's house was across the street from a huge woods so EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND he and I would sneak out of his Walk-Out Basement after his mom and step-dad fell asleep. J & I would always wear military clothes; carry military equipment; etc. We'd walk through the woods until we were exhausted; cold; wet; and somewhat scared. I'd try to set up camp, but it rarely worked. I can't tell you how many times we'd wake up at 4am in late Stage 1 hypothermia. Simultaneous to this EVERY weekend activity I had befriended a guy in my neighborhood and we'd sneak around the woods near our house doing the same sorts of stuff during the week. This went (ad nuesum) until around '89. In '90 I received my driver's license so State Parks; etc opened themselves up to me. While at University (92-97) I spent exorbitant amounts of time in Illinois's Garden of the Gods; State Parks; etc. While not in the woods; at gun stores / gun shows; surplus stores; or at the range I've studied / bought / tested / sold and/or traded TENS of thousands of dollars worth of gear. To this day, I methodically evaluate my gear. My wife could attest to the fact I probably spend 15 hours a week studying this topic (minimum) and tear down at least one aspect of our gear weekly.

2) Just because someone's gear doesn't look used doesn't mean they don't use their gear. Some people, like me, have duplicates of items so one can be stored for emergencies while the other gets beat on (tested / used / enjoyed). Take my LMF ferro rods...if you look in our kits you'll see brand new firestarters. However, if you look at the one I use - it looks like someone has hacked away at it with a chisel.

3) You CANNOT let someone else's gear drive your gear selection. YOU MUST LET THE MISSION DRIVE THE GEAR SELECTION!!!! Only you can determine what your mission will be.

4) A GHB is SIMILAR to a BOB, but there is one significant difference: MISSION....

A GHB is designed to get you home during a crisis (where your reserve food; medicine; weapons; shelter; etc are). In a GHB situation you know the desired outcome - get home / stay home.

A BOB is designed to sustain you as a refuge. You are leaving all of the comfort and security of your home so you need vastly more gear. Typically a BOB scenario will be far more devastating than a GHB scenario.

5) The similarity between a GHB / PSK / BOB / INCH or whatever is the HUMAN CONDITION . We require a certain set of perimeters to survive:

* Maintained body temperature
* Hydration (water)
* Energy (food)
* Shelter from elements
* Defense (against animals and predatory humans)
* First Aid

As long as you're capable of:

* Finding a suitable location (safe from people if you don't want to be found; safe from animals; safe from flooding; safe from bugs) and building a shelter

* Finding materials to build a fire in poor weather conditions (to improve morale; cook food; maintain core temperature; ward off certain animals; signal if required; etc)

* Finding a suitable water source that can be purified for drinking; cooking; sanitation

* Treating injuries (even minor cuts will go septic in the bush)

* Defending yourself; your gear; your camp

* Preparing the food that you brought while PASSIVELY obtaining local food (as in: trotline fishing; weirs; snares; etc - hunting in a true survival scenario is a waste of energy)

* Navigating across unfamiliar and potentially hostile territory

You will survive.


one more thought....


"Three is two; two is one; one is none"

This was the survivalist mantra during the 80's "survivalist" movement explosion.

Of course we're talking about REDUNDANCY. The level of redundancy in a kit is linked to the kit's mission. A GHB for example will most likely not have two water filters. A BOB, however, might.

When building in redundancy you have to carefully consider the multi-functionality of the product. A 'cost / benefit' analysis is required as ounces add pounds.

For example: I'm a huge advocate of "three ways to make water drinkable". As such my GHB has: Water Filter; Canteen Cup; Water Purification Tablets. The canteen cup also serves as a heating vessel for my oatmeal (energy)...and can heat water to raise core temperatures in cold weather.

I subscribed to, and read ravenously, "AMERICAN SURVIVAL GUIDE" magazine for many years. Prior to the Y2K scare I tore myself away from the "most fun" part of preparations (guns) and focused on food storage and water purification. I bought a year's worth of MRE's and a Katadyn Pocket Filter ($219 in 1999). Why did I do this? I was accustomed to using MRE's for my survival food source, and meticulous research yielded the Pocket Filter to be "the best pump available". The MRE's are long gone (THANK GOODNESS!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> ) but the Pocket filter sits in my BOB. My BOB also has: Mess Kit (boil water); Purification Tablets. In addition to my BOB I have my Line One PSK (belt order) with: Canteen Cup; AquaMira Frontier Filter; Water Purification Tablets.

Why so much redundancy? Well, because 27 years worth of doing this has yielded two immutable facts:

1) Humans (and I'm a human) are lazy and stupid. Therefore, we have a tendency to LEAVE gear in camp while we wonder out to poop / whatever. After getting lost once (compass in camp) and nearly freezing to death in the woods I decided that I will NEVER be without a primary / basic PSK. Therefore, my belt order is with me 24/7 while the ruck can be left behind while I check a trotline; secure a perimeter; gather firewood; drop a deuce; etc.

2) Humans (and I'm a human) are lazy and stupid. Therefore, we need to have a backup plan when Plan A; B; and C fails because we didn't plan properly; test our plan; execute properly; or just were unlucky or angry enough to break a critical piece of kit.



RE: GHB

If it takes longer than 24 hours to get home in a GHB situation you know (or hope its still there and not looted <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ) that you have food; shelter; water; etc waiting for you.

RE: BOB

I have to state up front that I think the 72hr BOB is a complete and absolute MYTH. Look at Katrina. Anyway, 72 hours was selected as a target survival period for a host of reasons:

1) You will most likely die if you go without water for 3 days.

2) The government has determined that agents will arrive within 72 hours and say "I'm from the Government and here to help" [Yikes] [Shocking]

3) Its the amount of gear that most out of shape / never been on broken ground Americans can ruck.

4) Its an amount of gear that isn't so monumental as to be discouraging to people getting started.

Having said all of that - I believe in setting up BOB's for as long as possible because (again) you are LEAVING the food; water; shelter; sanitation; etc at home.

72hr BOB need to focus on CONSUMABLES vs SUSTAINABLES. A consumable is food while a sustainable is an axe. With a 35# maximum BOB load you don't have a lot of freedom to add "sustainables" because you need to focus your weight allocation to food; water purification; basic shelter; etc.

I'll start a BOB thread when my time allows. As Tom mentioned - my job is very demanding.