The Chinese AKS is a "pre ban" B West import. Pretty rare, I understand. The second AK is an Lancaster/armory USA, 1982,Polish or Romanian, not sure, would have to look it up.
The Guntech USA mount was picked up at the fun show for about 20-25 bucks. It fits pretty snug but I had planned to drill and tap some set screws to lock it in. Well, as it turns out, it sits so high that you can't get a propper cheek weld,and it blocks the iron sights, with the red dot removed. So its gonna go into the junk box soon. I'm convinced the hot set up would be a Burris FastFire mounted between the stock and reciever. It would need to be on a picatinny for fieldstripping. If they don't make a mount soon, I'm sure I could fabricate something.
The magazine in the 18" AZEX/Imbel FAL is a 30rnd. Canadian L1A1 mag. Works well but sometimes hangs up a little when removeing from the mag. well. Needs to be fitted a little.

Right now? R-25 in a .243 win because that's what I have. I am saving for a FN SCAR-17. I handled one the other day and almost went back home and emptied my safe to see what I could trade in to get one.

Any opinions on the FN SCAR-17?

If I had more ammo, I'd love to bring along my Remington 700 in .257 Weatherby. It's the gun that I shoot the best at longer ranges. 300 yard shots are becoming easier and easier on coyotes and like sized targets.

Thanks hook, I'll learn from your experience and say no on that one., I didn't pay 900$ for the AK to not have back up irons. I don't know how easy it would be to find, but for a short while Larue Tactical was producing what they called the AK Irondot. It was/is a replacement rear sight unit with rear sight blade and provisions to mount a Burris Fastfire. It was DIRT cheap too, 289$ if I'm not mistaken, with the mini. I guess it didn't sell as well as it should have (it allowed for cowitnessing of the iron sights too), and they stopped selling on the website. Might be able to track one down on the secondary market though, but no telling how much it'll cost. I REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted one, but by the time I had saved up enough, they had yanked it... So I bought my Deregulator with the money and blew the rest on ammo, hehe!

The rail I have installed on my SGL-21 might be something you'd be interested in Hook, but it's a tad pricey. I've referenced it some 3 times in this thread already, so I won't repeat myself. Don't want to sound like an advertisement.

K- I love the Scar-17, the newest releases have an ambi charging handle now, instead of one you could switch back and forth, and I really wish the Army would remove thier heads from thier 4 points of contact and issue them to us. 40,000 rounds with no lube and a big fat goose egg for malfunctions? Come on?! no brainer! The price point is the killer for me though, ain't no way no how I'd be able to get one until the price comes down out of the upper atmosphere.

Thanks for the info. I'll keep a lookout for that iron dot. There has to be some better options out there. I have not been as in tune with the gun market latley. Kind of reached a saturation point on firearms and spending the extra funds on the Bussekin addiction.
Was very interested in the SCAR 16 & 17, but crazy prices presently. And waiting on more feedback of the new design. Some people seem to have concerns of the strength of the folding stocks. Debating letting one of the ARs go to fund it. The one FAL is a keeper though. It's just so sexy, IMO.

I fired a SCAR16 at a carbine class recently. It was the instructor's rifle, and he isn't overly impressed by it (nor am I). I find it funny that AR15 aficionados hate AR polymer lowers, but think the SCAR is the best thing since indoor plumbing (even though it has a plastic lower).

I've fondled about a half dozen different SCAR16's (no 17's yet), and they really don't impress me for the $2400 price tag.

I took my Sig556 Classic to the range last night (in the rain) and ran 170rds of Wolf ammo through it in less than 30 minutes. Lube was cooking off the barrel. I had zero malfunctions, and it took about 6 minutes to clean it (again - this was dirty Wolf ammo). This rifle was $1200 with Sig diopter sights.

Is the SCAR series 2x the rifle? I don't think it is.

Thanks for the input Arch. Would you consider a SCAR-17 a Tier 1 weapon?

Kuanomar,

I would not define the SCAR program as T1 yet. Only firearms that have exemplified performance over time (as to not be a statical anomaly) are Tier 1 to me. For example, the BCM MidLength AR15 type rifle is definitely Tier 1 as is the Glock 17 and Remington 870 Police (a parkerized Wingmaster - therefore no MIM critical parts found on the lower 870 models).

Internet conjecture and other sources (various magazines) have stated that "Operator Confidence" in the SCAR-16 was lower than expected as was the increased performance over the M4A1 SOCOM. Anticipated "Operator Confidence" was higher in the SCAR-17 mainly due to the cartridge. Many comments of broken parts on the SCAR-16 have been noted and the subsequent concern over durability is a factor.

Logically, it would follow that the SCAR-17 could suffer from some of the same issues. The SCAR-16 has been much more widely fielded, and therefore has to serve as the statical base.

I certainly appreciate your interest in a T1 7.62x51mm rifle! However, at this point the only T1 "308" is definitely the mighty FAL!

ETA: Only original Brazilian Imbel (imported by Springfield Armory during the 1980's), original Argentinian FSL (imported by Springfield Armory in the late 1980's), DSA manufactured before 2008 (full SA58 not their STG58 Parts Guns - remember ALL of their receivers are marked SA58 therefore you must investigate which parts they used to build the rifle! They will tell you on the phone if you have the serial number. The full new rifles have a lifetime warranty while the parts guns do not), and of course FN made FAL's (remember later FN FAL's used cast upper receivers - I would not purchase one of these) are truly "T1". I dismiss "FrankenFAL" builds from Enterprise, Dan Coonan, Century, IAI, etc automatically. The "Gunplumber" (Mark Graham at Arizona Response Systems aka ARS) use to build outstanding FAL's from quality receivers and parts kits.

Arch,

Thank you!!! Your response addressed the questions that I had and then some. I appreciate the time that you take to answer questions regarding firearms.

I have had several semi-auto .308's from DPMS, Remington (actually it was also a rebadged DPMS), and Rock River. I've handled the FNAR, M1A in various iterations, a FAL (I cannot remember who made it) and finally the SCAR-17. Simply based on ergos, the SCAR-17 felt the best.

However, if this is going to be a go to rifle, ergo's are only part of the equation. Reliability, accuracy and availability of ammo, magazines and spare parts important considerations as well. And your response addressed reliability very well.

I think that my main draw to the SCAR-17 is ergos and the ability to switch the barrel and have a .243 win (my favorite coyote cartridge).

I really should get an older FN FAL for a SHTF Battle Rifle. In fact, I most definately will. But, I have a chance at a killer deal on a SCAR-17 that I cannot pass on.

Thanks for helping me sort out my thoughts. This thread is a SHTF battle rifle thread so, you have helped me identify exactly what I need for that. Fret not, Arch, your response has not been in vain. I will pick up a FAL for my SHTF rifle. Now off to find gun plumber.

Kuanomar,

You will not get "gilded" accuracy from any FAL. They are "combat accurate" weapons that can benefit from one of the "refined" rear sight options available from DSA. As a "base unit" they are less accurate than a typical AR15 or M1A. However, excluding static "offensive / sniper" type activities they are more than sufficiently accurate for combat applications.

You mentioned an appreciation for 243. DSA makes (or made) a 243 FAL.

Arch, since you are our "Resident expert", and I mean that in the most flattering way, here is what I've got. WHAT (how good)have I got?
The receiver is marked
L1A1 sporter cal .308
Receiver made by IMBEL Brazil
Importede by CAI St. Alb UT.

I got rid of that stupid thubhole stock and put on the "regular" pistol grip and buttstock. I have also added the FN flash hider and a B Square scope mount rail. It has the regular post and wings front mount and a flip up rear mount.

If I remember correctly I paid $395 for it about 15 years ago. Is it worth having and do you think I got took? It shoots ok, but as you have said is not sniper accurate, but for a battle rifle I think it does ok. Now it can't hold a candle to my AR15A3 but then I don't expect it to.

Randy,

It sounds like you own a Century International Arms assembled FAL parts gun. Century's "bread and butter" has always been buying foreign surplus weapons (and importing them for re-assembly into civilian legal configurations - usually with a replacement receiver).

Your rifle most likely was is the following:

* Assembled by Century.
* Consists of a mix of used parts (from various guns, country of origin, etc. For example you have an INCH pattern barrel and a METRIC pattern upper reciever).
* Was built on an Imbel (imported from Brazil) upper receiver.

THE BAD NEWS <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbdn.gif" alt="" />

1) Century has never been known for quality control. In fact, they are known for the opposite.

2) Your parts might or might not have been in sound condition before Century refinished your "build".

3) You probably did NOT replace the necesarry foreign made parts to LEGALLY permit the conversion you described. Section 922r states that a firearm (made / imported after '89) cannot be comprised of more than 10 foreign made parts.

Per 922r the FAL has the following parts:

1) Magazine Body
2) Magazine Follower
3) Magazine Floor Plate
4) Receiver (Upper)
5) Barrel
6) Bolt
7) Bolt Carrier
8) Op Rod
9) Gas Piston
10) Hammer
11) Trigger
12) Sear
13) Muzzle Device
14) Buttstock
15) Handguards
16) Pistol Grip
17) Trigger Housing (Lower Receiver)

You can have any TEN of the above parts of foreign origin and be legal. However, the moment you introduce #11 you are in violation of manufacturing an illegal weapon.

THE GOOD NEWS <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

A) It is nearly impossible to foul up a FAL build. Literally anyone can do it.

B) Your "Type 3" Imbel upper receiver is the heart of the rifle, and considered by many to be the best FAL reciever ever made.

C) You've owned it 15 years, and it hasn't gone KABOOM yet so you're likely okay.

Probably looked like this originally?


This is a typical Century Arms L1A1 Sporter from the described time period: