Think about 40,000,000 of 300,000,000 who can't even feed themselves NOT getting their hand-out.

What happens then?

This is why I get irritated with Red Dawn comments. This is a gross over simplification of our dire circumstances. JJ, please don't think I'm picking on you. My sensitivity to that comment comes from YEARS of online attempts at educating people.

I had a copy of that report at one time, INTERESTING reading to say the least. hey Arch, don't feel alone I have refused to go into a business before because they had a sign on the door that said NO KNIVES! And no, it was a farm type store if you can believe that. The employees there didn't ALL subscribe to that mindset but it was official company policy. I don't go there any more.

Well my relief is here, I am gonna brief her and I am outta here!

I am a terrorist because I believe in the constitution of the United States and that the present Government is NOT concerned for the welfare of "The People"!

Have a nice day!

Thanks for your contribution, Randy.

In the interest of full disclosure I am neither a democrat nor republican. This will probably shock a lot of you who had me pegged as a Republican.

I have never once voted for a democrat, and faithfully voted for republicans until the last presidential election. The GOP's selection of McCain was the proverbial "final straw" for me.

I've been involved in politics for a long time (active involvement with campaigns, political action organizations, etc), and have watched the following truth expand over the past 20 years:

DEMOCRATS - You are the pawns of the Power Elite. They buy your votes with Government Programs (wealth redistribution), but they do not really care about you. They have an agenda, and you - like a pawn in chess - are just a throw away measure for them to achieve those goals.

REPUBLICANS - You've been hoodwinked. You've bought into the idea that questioning so-called Conservatives (when they pass legislation or write Executive Orders that rapes the Constitution) is "unpatriotic". You wrap yourself in the flag that your party no longer cares about. Statism and Facism is the new Republican way. Don't believe me? Read the John Warner Defense Authorization Act or the Patriot Act...both signed into law by a Republican President.

Republicans you have also bought into the idea of "giving up freedom for the promise of protection". Well, what did our Founding Fathers have to say about this?

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin 1775

“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy” - James Madison (Father of the U.S. Constitution & 4th President)

The second quote is of amazing importance, because just last night I heard more talk of "Terrorism" on Foxnews. Are we to really believe that the greatest nation to ever exist has to strip rights (violate the Constitution via non-warranted wire taps, hold people without due process, search homes, etc) from ITS CITIZENS to protect them from a handful of cave dwellers on the other side of the world? Seriously?

Don't allow yourself to be sold on the idea that the American people cannot choose a good course of self determination. We did very well until 1913.

In case you're wondering what my party affiliation is...I don't have one. I'm a self declared "Liberty Loving Constitutionalist who doesn't feel that party affiliation benefits We The People". I won't vote for anyone that violates the Constitution. I stand in their way.

I didn't think you were, and I understand you reason for being sensitive to it. I am in no way saying we shouldn't prepare for the worst. I am prepared.

I have personally been at ground zero of five natural disasters and some man made ones if you count war. Hell, I was three years old in the middle of Iran's revolution in 79. I have also been through many survival courses to include multiple SERE courses, tracking, hunting, foraging, and urban, jungle and desert warfare training. So, I know my experience with disasters and knowledge of it isn't worthless.

Every disaster I have been to seemed to play out fairly the same way. For the first week or so, people team up and helped each other despite their differences. Within a few weeks supplies start dwindling. People start hiding things from each other. Within a month, theft, rape and other forms of desperation and evil start to appear including pandemics like tetanus (tetanus isn't something we have to worry about in the U.S. since even the poor get vaccinated, but we would see some form of pandemic if our infrastructure shut down for a month or more).

My suggestion about tobacco and alcohol is for the immediate week or so after the SHTF. If I only had my bag with me, I may not have been able to bring much more than a week or so of food. I am likely to run into someone during that time who has food and is hurting for a smoke in the next town where his house still stands. I have seen this done to survive with my own two eyes.

I watched a couple of boys hiding near our base camp in the Philippines. They had a little tarp in some bushes. We decided to go check them out for security reasons. They were eating from a couple cans of food when we got there. They offered us some food. We declined and asked them why they were there. They said being near the U.S. military is the safest place for them to hide their cigarettes. Neither smoked, and neither had more than a few cans of food and some fruit at a time, but they both had fresh food every day until we left three months later and the country had started to turn the corner to recovery.

That said, I know that is an extreme example, but I am not saying stash an entire box full of cartons of cigarettes. Hell, you don't even have to stash cigarettes at all. Seeds would work fine in the long haul. Candy may work fine in the immediate time after the "event."

My point is, it is always good to have something you don't mind trading away (cigarettes in my case) for something you may need to refilling on.

I do admit though. I have a flask of Jack in my bag for me. Moral is a valuable commodity and a little luxury like a few swigs off a bottle of Jack can go a long way in getting it for you if you are in the middle of a $%#@ storm. This too, I've seen and experienced with my own eyes.

P.S. I was in the Philippines for a tsunami/landslide about five years ago.

I just read my post and want to make sure you don't think of it as an attack, Arch. I know you have your views and I have mine, but I don't want to offend you and some of my writing sounded a little smartypants on the read over.

JJ - I absolutely didn't take your comments as an attack. You were just establishing your position/views and bona fides.

We're 100% cool.

This is the type of open discussion needed for this topic! I sincerely appreciate your contribution.

Our backgrounds actually sound similar. Until age 9 I lived all over the world. Three of those years were spent inside East Germany. I have very detailed recollections of passing through CP Charlie. I too have disaster experience. As a licensed commercial architect I've been tapped several times for recovery efforts and post-event evaluations.

You're welcome to contribute anything you want herein. Our slightly differing views will just help readers expand their thought horizon - which is the whole purpose of this thread!

Forgot to add...

I was hoping you didn't take my tone (earlier posts) as an attack on your contribution.

Its hard to express "emotion" or the "lack of emotion" online. This can lead to tension on less mature forums. Its good to have a place were ADULTS can discuss matters without getting butt-hurt.

Long Live The Yard!

For those who don't know...

CP Charlie was the gate between East and West Berlin. We lived in the "American Sector", but very frequently went into the GDR Sector thru CP Charlie.

JJ, good point. I know I would go nuts without my Copenehagen, it allows me to cope to say. There is value for a BOB, and it is for me. To have enough for true bartering the A & T would be in larger amounts and better stored in a Bug In place.

Great post!! [color:"#666666"] (although the politics can go to the wayside) [/color]

Not really much to add...but with regards to preparedness, I think it's important to also talk about physical conditioning. Most American's won't be able to run / move as needed to properly "avoid" conflict, or to escape a disaster area of influence. As Arch mentioned, getting out and "doing it" can be considered valuable input for all points discussed above....be it bushcraft, hunting w/ a 22, survival training, mental / physical conditioning, etc etc.