I must agree that if you don't know Jesus you are not prepared for anything!
But as Christians and as responsible citizens we need to be prepared enough to help others for with out simple kindness we loose who we are.

Amen to Imagine and gun dog both! Sometimes we take things for granted. I do (The part about knowing Christ in our lives). That is something Patty and I take for granted and true, we shouldn't.

Anyway, as stated before, Patty and I really only need to make it a little less than 10 miles to constant (spring) water, 4 acres of fish and literally hundreds of acres of wildlife. In that area quite possibly the .22 would be king. Relatively quiet, and the deer come in close enough you can literally shoot them through the eyes. Legal here with a .22 no, but if it IS a TEOTWAWKI, that is one law that no one would be worried about. And the meat could be smoked and dried, and my paternal aunt okie would keep her a quart of fresh cows milk in another spring for about three days or sometimes 4 without it going bad. There's a small cabin there to provide sleeping space for everyone with enough old falling down buildings to harvest enough wood to add an addition two or three times that size and most importantly, there is even a Privy!

Two:

The 72 hour bag… I still have mixed thoughts on this as well. I have a big pack, as big as I like anyway. It has options for even larger capacity with MOLLE add-ons as well. It is an Eberlestock Half-Track which is 50 liters. It is as nice in my opinion as any of the Kifaru packs I have owned in the past. Especially if you look at the cost and I do.

So, I am thinking maybe a “get to my big pack bag” is in order. It would have my Glock 19, if it wasn’t in my waistband. I also wouldn’t carry my camping stuff which is more or less what is in my larger BOB. The smaller pack would also double as my work bag. If you don’t have it, it doesn’t do you any good.

Many packs are so modular these days you could simply add pack one onto pack to if you were so inclined.

What I would need to camp for a week, I guess would also need to bug out for a week? In style and comfort no doubt.

If it is going to be 72 hours it could turn into longer. Do I want my larger bag? If I don’t need it camping or I do need it camping should it be in my bag?


Hmm…I need to make a content list for bag one which in my case would go into bag two.

Now you're thinking! That's why I have my Lite BOB (my 511 push pack FAK) with a few extras thrown in. It's all in there (small quantities of course) to get me home if I need it, guess I need to toss my 357 in there as well.

You know now that I think about it, IF I am going to have a defensive caliber handgun which one should I take. I have an S&W mod60 357 5 shot 3 inch Stainless barrel revolver. I also have a Ruger convertible 357 with a 9mm cylinder. The ruger MIGHT make more sense, as it can use two different calibers of ammo. What do you guys think? I think that I have determined I will have a Bulldog on my hip!

Hmm, I would go with the combo. But if you are likely to actually carry the smaller model 60 I would go with that.

I'd love to have a fixed blade and a good fire kit etc. I always have a lighter and a folder actually on me. Even in the gym they are in my gym bag with my other personal items keys, phone, wallet.

The best lite BOB I have found is the blackhawk cyclone. a great survival .22 is the S&W MP15-22. the fastest .22 to clean and breakdown and really accurate.
and 25 round mags are great and work with ar15 30 round pouches. the gun is really amazing but many people will bash it but first try it.

I have said it before, but is the SHTF I would be bugging IN. That said, I have a couple of good neighbors a mile in each direction and we would be helping each other. One has a commercial greenhouse and herd of cows. The other rents some of my land and has cows here as well as at his home ground along with a pig nursery. We all have ponds with fish, so we will be in pretty good shape. And VERY important; we believe in personal security!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

TOPIC ONE

72 Hours - Why, When, Where, How & What? The myth of 72 hour kits and the need for a simple/fast/effective/small PSK for rescue, transport, and defense.

My survival experience is based on my own experiences. I have no specific training in this area. Here are my thoughts on topic one and the 72 hour time widely discussed and the "bug out" idea.

When a gas pipeline between was damaged between Texas and California and gas was tight here several years ago, I watched people act like fools at the local gas station trying to cut each other off to enter the gas station and other foolish behavior. I saw two physical altercations at my local gas station during this time. This event lasted for more than 72 hours and was not a real emergency per se, but it was interesting to see how quickly everyone lost their cool. I don’t have any reason to believe that people would act differently in a more severe emergency.

The simple things.... We lost the transformer that powers my house and 3 of my neighbor’s houses from a storm a couple of weeks ago. We were only without AC for about 16 hours. It only got up to 95 in the house so it was not as bad as it could have been. AC might sound like a nice to have, but in Arizona in the summer, I would argue otherwise especially with small children and elderly folks. I provided flashlights to two of my neighbors who "could not find theirs". One neighbor has a new born and the other is an elderly woman. I was reminded that it's not just my family who would seek assistance if I were to "bug in" (a more likely scenario as I see it) during a disaster. Having thought out who one would provide assistance to and who one would not help is helpful to think through in advance of being put on the spot.

Bug In:
I keep about 50 gallons of water in my house at all times, this far exceeds 72 hours of DRINKING water use in my house. I have a pool for bathing. I have two boys, so I always have more than 72 hours worth of food in the pantry and medicine in the bathroom. I do keep rice, and other staples in bulk from Costco, but I am not methodical about it. I could do more to organize my food storage efforts. I am covered for more than 72 hours in this area. I need to renew my CPR certification and get basic medical instruction from a community college. This is on my bucket list after I am done with school. I don't have a generator of any kind. This is something that I need to address at some point soon. I tend to think that the 72 hour number is too short a period of time to sustain oneself for Bug In scenarios. That being said, it is a starting point and you need to start somewhere.

Bug out:
Each of my family members has a BoB although I maintain them. I am confident that my family could sustain us for 72 hours with our current load. I do think BoB's serve a valid purpose, assembling them makes people think. I need to do a better job working with my family on their kits and involving them more. The only one that has any interest is my youngest boy. At ~8 pounds a gallon, water is not something my back takes lightly. Again, I have to carry 95% of the water myself and my kids use since they are too young to shoulder the weight. I live out of a pack for several days at a time and do this at least once a year.

In this bug out scenario it's not the contents of my BoB that is my concern, it’s having to deal with those citizens around me. If I were on foot, I would be hauling water for myself and my two sons not to mention defensive tools etc. Put a few gallons of water and 6-10 loaded AR mags in a pack along with other standard contents and things get heavy real quick. In the desert, I will toss quite a bit of gear in order to make room for water and have done so on a few occasions. That nifty “nice to have” gadget that weighs a few pounds feels like 10 pounds after a few miles on foot. I think the 72 hour time for this bug out scenario is a good starting point. However, I would strongly suggest anyone who has a BoB fill it up with water and any other "tools and accessories" and hump in around the block or on an actual hike. I know many folks probably do this already, but it can be an eye opener for those who have not.

I view the bug out scenario as a means to get to the next place to bug in, not as an end in and of itself. If it takes 72 hours to get to the next bug in point, then 72 hours may make sense as a starting point for preparation. My next bug in location is 8 miles away. Something I could do in less than a day with my family in the worst heat Arizona could dish out with our BoB's.

NICE post Jeeps! Well thought out and very well put into words.

And I agree with you on a place to bug to!

Sorry I haven't elaborated on this topic yet. I've had a few complications, and haven't felt up to posting. However, I wanted to get this started. As I mentioned in the OP, I probably won't be able to develop my thoughts as completely as usual....

The 72 Hour Myth

The entire "72 Hour Bug-Out-Bag" concept is the unwanted stepchild from the Government's recommendation to have 72 hours worth of food and water stored in your home. Unfortunately, survivalists ("preppers") has taken this to mean they should have a 72 Hour Bug-Out-Bag.

The 72 Hour window was created because this was the traditional response time (real or imagined) that it would take Big Bro to respond to some cataclysm that would require their intervention. I take real issue to this, because:

1) What is Big Bro is the problem? There are people on this forum that think our Government would never do anything to the people of this country. Great on you - keep your head in the sand and hope for the best. However, ask people of Japanese Decent who suffered through being robbed of their possessions and herded into "Internment Camps" how the United States Government treats people it deems "undesireable". If that's not good enough for you - then ask a Native American how life is on their puny reservations. Lastly, FEMA Camps are real. The plans to use UNITED STATES CITIZENS as slave labor is real. Google this: "Army Regulation 210-35"....just read the title of this regulation that is on army.mil's website:

www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf

2) If Big Bro doesn't cause the problem, are they still really your savior? Of course not! Just look at Katrina. 'Nuff Said.

3) What if the problem is big enough that Big Bro is only concerned with its own survival. You do realize that our Government's first concern is its own survival ("Continuity Of Government") not the survival of its citizens, correct? If this wasn't the case, then the Fall Out Shelter programs that Eisenhower implemented would not have died. Have you read any of the Government's papers on the Continuity of Government? This is a whole different topic, but suffice to say...they are going to take care of themselves and you're just in the way. Don't believe me? Offended by what I say - then prove me wrong. IF you're too lazy to research it for yourself....

"As a result of the asymmetric threat environment, adequate warning of potential emergencies that could pose a significant risk to the homeland might not be available, and therefore all continuity planning shall be based on the assumption that no such warning will be received," states the 72-paragraph order. It is designated National Security Presidential Directive 51 and Homeland Security Presidential Directive 20.

The statement added, "Emphasis will be placed upon geographic dispersion of leadership, staff, and infrastructure in order to increase survivability and maintain uninterrupted Government Functions."
- George W Bush, President



TO BE CONTINUED