It's all fine and well being prepared, making sure you have 'covered all the bases' but besides being able to make a nice fire and settling in for the night in your warm sleeping bag with your trusty steel of choice by your side what else would you guys consider taking along that could possibly boost morale. Of course keeping in mind there's not always space for the Monopoly... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I was thinking along the lines of a deck of cards, it doesn't take up a lot of space and can provide hours of fun for everyone.

Is there anything else you guys would suggest? It doesn't necessarily have to be a game. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I found this... Touches on some very valid, real points.

"Once your water, food, shelter and security needs are met, implementing activities that increase and maintain morale are an important part of a sustainable and effective group. In today's society, staying busy is not hard. You have many choices of entertainment, amusement, and places you can go at the spur of the moment. However, morale can quickly breakdown during a crisis if people are afraid, bored, jealous, or overbearing. The key is to create a system that includes:

1. Respect for others and leadership authority

2. Well defined responsibilities

3. Sense of increasing control of events and improving conditions

4.Enough work for everyone without overburdening just a few group members

5.A daily schedule that includes a balance of work, meals, sleep and personal grooming

6.Time to relax and reflect

In a high-stress survival situation, even small disagreements can turn into major group conflicts. Decide well before a crisis, what type of decision making process will be implemented. Will you conduct votes? Have a highly structured lines of authority? Everyone must be able to sanely live in the social environment you create."

Have you checked out the BOB bag? Here it is
http://www.scrapyardknives.com/ubbthread...e=0&fpart=1

check out this one as well
http://www.scrapyardknives.com/ubbthread...e=0&fpart=1

ZX, I am not sure LONG TERM survival has really been discussed that much. Of course THAT scenario brings up a whole new and different set of concerns. Most of the talk here so far I THINK has been just getting away from or surviving the first few days (maybe a week up to a month) before help of some kind actually arrives. Yes, even this relatively short time period brings forth the "what do I do to in my spare time or to relax" and I believe is and should be subjective for each individual. Some will choose cards, some books and some.... (insert your choice here).

Thanks SkunkHunter... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> I missed this... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

No problem. Architect has started and there has been A LOT of good information in those threads. Actually ANY thread with BOB/Survival?FAK in it would be good reading.

I don't know your AO of course, but just based upon some pics I would say get yourself a good 4-5 inch blade and a GOOD Machete, OR AT LEAST a good 9 inch or so knife and you should have all your cutting chores covered, oh and a Ferro rod and striker. Those things are unbelievable!

I've taken it to the point in my mind where if I need to get moving I know where I'll go, it's far but there's food, water and enough resources to sustain me.

You know it's also got a lot to do with who ends up coming with. Fair enough there will be those individuals that are automatically in the mix, be it your wife, children, family or friends. But the thing is, as well as you know somebody, they could be completely different in a survival situation.

I have on many occasions taken folks out for a few days just to see how they would handle 'roughing it' and to be honest very few performed as well as they claimed they would. Now obviously it's a wake-up call for a lot people especially the men, when after day 2 it's 'not funny' anymore... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Also I think there's that, that you think of yourself and there's that, that you know of yourself... The trick is finding the middle ground and being able to live with it... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />

Also you eventually will get to the point where as in any survival situation you will have the hunters, those that care and medicate, those that sit and do nothing and so forth. Having to deal with that and not let it affect the group... Seeing past the guy/girl who sleeps while others work, all these things become possible reasons to explode and 'loose it'... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

Your post is very true, specially the last paragraph. I FIRMLY believe everyone "Bugging Out" should have a firearm. But I just as strongly believe the use of that firearm FOR DEFENSE/OFFENSE, should be ONLY a last ditch, I'm gonna die If I don't shoot situation. It is Far better to remain unseen and bypass "Their friends" to come a running!

BE the RABBIT (or Gazelle) NOT the lion.

I'm with you 100%... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Your goal is to SURVIVE. Survival for most all creatures is to NOT draw attention to themselves lest they DO become pray for something/someone bigger, faster,stronger and with NO morals.

Now don't get me wrong, IF NECESSARY I will do ANYTHING to save guard the lives of my loved ones and myself, but only when a conflict can not be avoided.

This reminds me of what I have heard on TV about the Cheetah. They avoid conflict with other creatures that have the power to steal their kill. They instinctively know that an injury can mean death.

ZX, I am sorry I kinda sidetracked this thread of yours from the Moral issue.

We have a 'thread-jacker' in our midst... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> No worries S-H... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It's also got a lot to do with the route you intend to take. Are you going to 'stick out'? How big is the group? When crossing a stretch of ground are you silhoutted againt the skyline? Sometimes taking the route less travelled takes a little longer but is by far the safer choice.

Living along the coast I've spent many a night sleeping on the beach and you'll be amazed at how far away you can see the coal of a cigarette. Something a simple as having a smoker in the group can drastically effect your ability to remain hidden. When I did my 'BASICS' Training in the Military there was mention of the fact that you could see a cigarette coal 3km's away, now I'm not sure if that's true, but nevertheless the point was made.

I know when we would have a "Military exercise" those on guard duty were not allowed to smoke if they were in a blackout situation.

And you are correct about being "Highlighted". A "Hunters Moon" is dreaded by military clandestine operators as well as anyone trying to move about undetected. Also, you might be surprised how far a slight breeze can carry the smell of burning tobacco.

ZX, I am guessing that your area is more arid or semi arid and not a jungle environment, correct?

Thinking back on my blade recommendations, and that can be a morale factor because the more confident you are in your equipment the better you feel, Maybe THREE blades would be best.

1. Longer blade, machete or a large 9 inch or longer like the DF or B11.
2. A Midsize blade for normal camp type chores, like the S5, 511 or the Wardog and the Ratmandu would also work of course.
3. A smaller blade like the Scrapivore, Rodent solution, Mud Puppy or Swamp warden. This would be for "Pocket knife" type chores and save your larger blades.

Plus the smaller blade especially the Scrapivore and Swamp Warden could (maybe should) be worn as a neck knife so you will always have a blade no matter WHAT happens. AND BE SURE YOU INCLUDE A QUALITY SHARPENER! I am once again going to recommend the Eze-lap model M for it's strength and longevity.

Most of the area in South Africa could be referred to as Savannah Grasslands but where I'm from it's very overgrown, I suppose you could say jungle type foilage. I'm heading home in 2 weeks a I'll definitely post some pics for you guys. I'll live along the East Coast of South Africa, in the province of Kwazulu/Natal. It's greenest of all the provinces.

I've attached a random aerial shot, courtesy of google, of my town. Well more specifically the area bordering the beach just to give you an idea. The area is so dense that recently a Lioness was able to avoid capture for 4 months till eventually she dissapeared... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Ok, you definitely DO NOT live in an arid area of the country. But as you already know, if maybe haven't thought of, is that you should tailor your BOB and supplies and support equipment to the area you will be traversing the most of.

Oh and something you probably HAVE NOT thought of, get yourself a good (I would strongly recommend wood of some type) hiking staff, at least 5-6 ft tall, NOT LESS than 5 ft. That would give you enough length to help stave off undesirable creatures that slither, crawl or jump or fly and can make a large difference.

Here we go, I found a newspaper article regarding the Lioness and there's a pic of what the area looks like...

http://www.zululandobserver.co.za/Pages/f14story1.html

http://www.zululandobserver.co.za/Pages/m15story1.html

http://www.zululandobserver.co.za/Pages/m20story5.html

As for the knife choices, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks so much S-H.

You know I've never really considered the importance of an excellent blade. I mean fair enough I have knives of all sorts but I never thought about it in regards to steel choice, hardness of the blade, how comfortable the handle is, how well the grip suits ones hand, etc.

And I say I recommend wood. There a lot of "Survival staffs" out there and a lot of them are well thought out and very good at their job. BUT what if for some reason you lost it or had to abandon it and it was found by "the bad guys". That would just alert them that you MAY not be to far away.

Most of us never do. Face it, MOST of us never have to use a knife or machete or a bladed cutting instrument for hours on end. Just a few minutes to skin out small game or maybe a deer, gazelle, kudu or eland (Just for you my friend). So handle comfort isn't really all that critical. But in a survival situation, or even one where you just plan on "Getting out there" for a week or longer, those criteria can make a large difference. As I said earlier, IF you are confident that your tools can take it, you will be removing one stress factor from your life.

Nice articles and I can see why she remained free for so long. Escaped from a game reserve. Ok, explains a few things.

You know, another blade that would fit into the "Sorta 5 inch group) would be the ScrapMuk. About everybody that has them just rant and rave about how good they are for a multitude of tasks.

DANG, so many choices so little money (at least for me) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I've just done a search and the ScrapMuk does sound good nevermind how nice it looks. But having said that I'm battling to distinguish between my needs and my wants... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What makes these purchases even more painful for me is that the shipping is half the price of the knife... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

I've ordered myself a 511 and this will be the start of a few descent knives for myself. Maybe 1 or 2 for my better half as well. I really like the plain handles and the black finish, not gaudy or anything like that... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> Plain, neat and clean, not to mention the specs... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think the 511 will make you a GREAT all around user/camp chores blade. It should also make a fairly good skinner with the belly it displays. Probably better than the S5 or Rodent solution or the wardog. And YUP, a person doesn't really need flash, but if you can get it with functionality for a descent price it's nice!

Now all you gotta do is settle on a larger blade and then a small one. Personally I like the Swamp Warden for a companion blade as it is a Skelly blade so you could piggyback it with a larger blade so they are always together. And it will work fine for most things that you would use a 3 inch blade for. The Scrapivore is smaller and would work well on much smaller game though, and possible even better on snakes because of it's size.

Ok The 511.....Check

Large blade....Still checking

Small blade....Swamp warden ( I would still get a Scrapivore and use it as a neck knife so you would always have one on you).

Nice to have.....ScrapMuk as a GREAT skinner mainly, but as I said those that have it LOVE it for all kinds of work.

** If you can do it, order a Scrapivore with your 511 and have them shipped together.

just to put up i got a scrapivore sheath bundle and its a great set up the only thing i dont like about it is the sheath didnt come with a belt loop or anything so i either have to make one or go and get me a chain to put around my neck either way the knife is amazing i love it

ZX, I'm going to sign off for now. I will probably be back on later. I've really enjoyed the conversation and hope we have helped you solve some of your concerns. Take it easy and take care! Keep your eyes and ears open' it's a dangerous world out there.

I've taken S-H's advice and contacted Renee in respect to adding the Scrapivore to my exisitng order... Good timing considering that the 511 hasn't been shipped yet... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />

yeah it is youll love the scrapivore for sure i didnt order a 511 im working on getting another knife from a secondary deal and just really cant afford to buy two at the same time of this type of stature but if i can come up with the money i will deffinatly be getting the 511 as well. would like to have the whole 11 series just dont know if it will be in the cards or not just yet

Thank you for the confidence in my suggestion. Might I make another one. IF YOU CAN STAND IT, wear it as a neck knife. AND get you a firestarter steel and the I think it's called the smith's pocket hone or either the Smith's or Eze-lap model S. They are both aluminum.
SMITHS ROD:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q...ved=0CGIQ8wIwBw

Eze-lap:
http://www.knivesplus.com/eze-lap-sharpener-ez-s.html


What I am getting at here is that with those three objects, IF you are ever lost OUT THERE you have a means of signaling/warmth and or keeping some animals at least at bay and hopefully you will reach your destination or get rescued before it gets TO bad.

And again, I would also STRONGLY suggest you still or also get and carry with you or ON your 511 sheath the Eze-lap model M. All brass and steel construction.

Here's the Model M
http://eze-lap.com/control/model-m/

Hope I have been of some help.

I've got a few of these, on each bunch of keys for my 2 vehicles, of course one in my 'BOB', 1 amongst my First Aid Kit on my Kayak and then one attached to my house keys... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Howdy ZX. Glad to see you've got some of them. I know you ocean kayak fish but didn't know how "prepared" you were or are for land misadventures. It is at least by now obvious I know nothing about kayaking except you want to keep the side WITHOUT holes in the water!

That's a very, very important part of Kayaking... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I imagine it is! But with someone who is gravity challenged and with not a really good sense of balance, I think I had just better stick to John boats or Pontoons! Besides if I fell in the water everybody around would start shouting "FREE WILLY FREE WILLY" And that would be embarrassing for the whales!

... make our Great Whites really happy... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Oh Yeah, probably a dozen or so at least! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think that it would scare me half to death to be out in the water like that and see a Great White, or ANY shark for that matter.

Once when a buddy and I were diving in Hawaii we had a couple barracuda checking us out. They stayed Just on extreme limits of our flashlights. That was kind of an eerie feeling as well. Oh and once I was coming up the side of a sunken ship and just as I got to the top deck and started to go over, a Moray eel came out of his hole in a pipe about two foot from my face! He had real healthy teeth!

This is a story of what happened to a buddy of mine very recently... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=58534&forum_id=26

Holy Smoke! If that had happened to me, that Shark couldn't have seen anything through all the brown water! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

A deck of cards, small book/Bible, small set of dominos are good choices to take along for some down time.

Dominos, I never thought about that, good one... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

Something as simple as a Nailclipper can make the world of difference to. For me personally there's nothing as irritating as having long nails and everything ends up underneath them. It would definitely effect my morale... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

zuluXtreme

KZN area is a beautiful area, with some hard, humid environments.

There are a few things that can be seen as "generic" within our bioms (maps etc of biodiversity etc can be found here http://bgis.sanbi.org/index.asp?screenwidth=1680#)

Generic BOB in my opinion are:

1. Extra water then required
2. Water purification
3. Good knife
4. 3 fire starter methods (match, lighter, ferro rod)
5. First Aid kit (dont go to a cape union mart or outdoor shop, they rip you off, go to a Des-Chem, they have great first aid pouches at good prices!)
5.1 ANTI-VENOM for both neurotoxic (mamba) and hemotoxicity (pofadder) and know how to use it!
6. Maps of the areas you are going into (a FULL set of orthophoto 1:50000 scale can be bought for R300 from Surveyor General offices, covered most of our country in detail)
7. A swiss army knife with scissors, saw etc. Look into the Swiss tool, IMO a better product then a Leatherman. You can do your nails, beard etc.
8. 2 torches, one wind up one (requires no batteries and one good Maglite or what you prefer)


I bought a survival (backup) kit from Boswa survival

http://www.boswa.co.za/Survival%20kit%20shop.htm

here is a review I did on British Blade.
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?122706-Review-Boswa-Survival-Kit

As to Moral. A Bible is a big plus for me as well as wetwipes!

Now that's very interesting... Thanks ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pleasure! The full CD set is around R300 (if memory serves me correctly) well worth it IMO.

Thanks for that Marthinus... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> YA! I'm still one of those guys who refuses to get a GPS... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I really enjoy finding my way around using a map, reading the contours to work out elevation, stuff like that. So this will definitely come in very handy... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Great conversation guys, It's really nice to see countryman help each other out, as you know each others environment.

Marthinus, I stole this from british blades and wonder if you could explain it to me.

Potassium Permanganate for water purifying, mixed with sugar makes for a great fire lighter...
Just a tablespoon full in one of those match plastic packets will be enough...

I am really confused about mixing with sugar?

Oh and one thing I don't see (might have missed it) is a way to sharpen your blade(s).

All I know is that from Science experiments at school, Potassium is no joke... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />


I scratched around a bit and found these interesting links on the subject...



http://coldsteelforums.com/Potassium-permanganate-m133549.aspx

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4764

http://www.survival.com/?page_id=129

http://www.home-cov.demon.co.uk/survkit.htm



The information I gleaned from these links was very interesting, I'm sure they'll help S-H... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

some gentlemen at the Orange County Fair were handing out little mini new-testement bibles. Perfect for my bob and for my car.

I also like playing cards- they are small, lightweight and useful for MANY types of games and entertainment, from children's games to adult games (the first type being priceless)

I did it S-H... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We'll get you REAL hooked and then the Big money items will start flowing! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think you will like the Scrapivore. It seems small but really does a nice job on things and it is a handy size. I wear mine all the time.

You are scaring me now S-H... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

As for the Scrapivore and the 511, I'm very glad that I'm starting on the right foot in regards to a high quality knife/tool that will serve me well for years to come. Possibly even hand it down someday... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />

Yes, they should both serve you well.Ummmm Gemsbok steaks on the grill! PERFECT use for the scrapivore! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now THAT would be a moral builder!

Man those things have pretty horns. LONG too!

Sorry for the late reply but I see zulu already answered the question with some good references.

As for sharpening your blades. I have 3 small sharpeners in the bag. A lansky diamond paddle (600grit) a lansky crock stick, a simple benchstone from felco and of course a steel file on the Swiss Tool. The steel file is probably used the most since I learned sharpening with a steel file on a machete.

I'm just the opposite. Using a file in a knife is like dragging your fingernails down a chalkboard to me. Of course I have hardly ever used a machete, but I do see the usefulness of using a file on them and have actually done so a couple of times.

Different environment, different situations different needs.

I can fully understand that. Using a file takes of a lot of metal. It is really (almost) last resort if the blade needs a lot of work. I have not been home in a week so I have used my field sharpeners the past week. With the Lasnky diamond paddle (DMT, EZ-Lap are as scarce as chicken teeth here) I can get it shaving sharp, but no mirror finish. In the field, survival wise a good size stone is last resort.

You should have seen my grandfather, he used a brick to sharpen his knives. Scary stuff but he was a no BS man and knives had to WORK! I still have his axe he used in the mines.

When I was stationed in the Philippines WAY back in 74-77 when my "Negrito hunting bolo, or my Negrito ninja sword" got dull I just jumped on top of our decorative concrete fence with a small bucket of water, wet down the concrete and began sharpening away. Not the best edges in the world, but hey they did work. The blade steel is nothing more than the leaf spring from some sort of vehicle. Does not hold the best edges, but sharpens back up (ok, sort of sharp for at the least the first two whacks or two) pretty easily, and I still LOVE that Bolo, actually a 9 1/2 inch bowie blade.

Your a nutter! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hehe, ya do what works for you, or use the only resource available at the time.