OK, here we go. What do you folks think about the Taurus Judge 5 shot .410/45LC pistol and Circuit Judge rifle for a bug out or survival type weapon?

Yes, it's not a mega ammo magazine fed civilian copy of a military rifle. But to my way of thinking, in a Bug Out or Survival situation you want to first and foremost AVOID other folks to a very large degree. The .410 will be a good game getter for "living off the land" and the 45LC will suffice for larger game or two legged varmints that need persuaded to go on by. What think you yard, especially Tom (Private Klink) who now has both versions?

interesting thought. way to think outside the box on this one skunk. can you load it fast?

Well about as fast as most other revolvers, swing out cylinder, but with 2 and a half inch shells, how fast can you shuck them into those holes?

Oh, and for any that may not know, a .410 shotgun shell and a 45Colt shell are the same outside diameter and the barrel on both weapons are rifled.

if you don't want a battle or assault rifle it might be a good choose

Remington now has tactical shotguns that have remchokes so you have lots of 12ga
ammo and a choke selection. but if you don't like 12ga.

It would be great forage gun but if you have multiple tangos you might want a deeper mag. it really would also depend on the game animals in your area.

GD, my thoughts on this are:

1. A weapon or weapons almost anyone can "handle" in relation to kick/recoil.

2. A weapon or weapons that is lighter weight than a lot of 12gauge shotguns.

3. A weapon that will allow for the carrying of more ammo per weight than a 12 gauge.

4. In a survival situation MOST of the game taken will be of the small/middle size, from squirrels and rabbits up to possible antelope or small deer (as in younger, not yet so afraid of man therefore easier to "stalk"). Remember we're talking survival here, not sportsmanship.

5. Sound. The .410 is not as loud as a 12gauge, thereby decreasing the possibility of being detected.

It is my belief that the king of the survival weapons might well be a suppressed 22 rimfire semi automatic rifle. You can kill anything up to and including deer with it and it would be very quite compared to even the .410.

Just some random rambling thoughts from me for you to think on.

And with that, it's time for me to hit the sack. Gotta ride the radio for another week starting tonight. Y'all have a good remainder of the day. Stay safe, be happy and don't be afraid to help someone out that needs a helping hand.

GD, I'm talking Survival here. You're the rabbit, your survival depends on NOT being seen and the "Tango" situation, which is a grave consideration, is one that can for the most part be avoided. Now I am basing all this thinking on "BUGGING OUT", on the move type situation where you are trying to get somewhere. You're trying to insure your BASIC survival, not trying to decrease the Scumbags around you. If I sound critical of your opinions, I am not. I agree with everything you have said, but I am going on a pure stay alive without a support group situation.

Survival? meaning harvesting game and protection as a secondary use. I would use a good 22lr.

I kind of want one of the ciruit judges just because they are the Platypus of firearms. The price keeps me from getting one though.

I have an early 2 1/2 inch model. It is great on squirrel and rabbit, though when the squirrel is up a tall pine, it doesn't have the authority like a .22 has from that distance. It works well w/ #4 shot on rabbits, just waiting too see if I can get a bird or two w/ it. I also have loads from Buffalo Bore in .45 LC( be careful w/ HOT LOADS) and they are accurate as can be from the little barrel. Cowboy action loads tend to tumble on targets past 7 Yards in my experience!

MB, yup that is my thoughts exactly. And I agree with you, but some folks just GOTTA have something bigger than a 22.

I have only handled one at the store, but I noticed the DA/SA action makes for a light trigger pull in SA

If someone made a lever action 20 gauge that might be a better choice. But They are like hens teeth.

Now THAT would be nice.

doesn't winchester make a 410 lever action

I can run a 410 through my Marlin 45/70 in a pinch. It would have a pattern like a doughnut and the case would bulge but it works. A lever 20 gauge might be pretty useful. Shot and buckshot would take most things in a hurry.

it is very close range though. my sister has a Remington 870 20 pump tactical that would be a heck of a survival gun. lots of shells and lots of power

Randy, that circuit judge WOULD make an interesting survival gun. I'm beginning to warm up to thought of that.

I always considered a good rifle chambered in 22lr to be the perfect survival gun, but lately my Browning Buckmark Practical 22lr pistol has really impressed me with how accurate it is. Right now it would be my go to survival gun.

I think a good heavy barreled semi-auto pistol chambered in 22lr and fitted with a suppressor would be the ticket.

I'm hoping Tom will chime in with a performance evaluation of the circuit judge.

Hi guys! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for asking my opinion. My wife and I took the Circuit Judge, Judge, Mk.I and Mk.II pistols out yesterday for a little target practice.

First, I was pleased by the accuracy of the Circuit Judge with .45 L/C ammo- Federal 225 grain JSP. Taurus supplies a "thread protector" choke tube which they advise using when shooting buckshot or other shot. We didn't try buckshot yesterday. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

The Judge pistol shoots .45 L/C, shot, or slugs interchangebly, but mine shoots a little high and to the left. The sights are not adjustable. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I was very pleased when my wife shot both Judge weapons; she was pleasantly surprised with the low recoil and shot well. I'm thinking of mounting a Red Dot sight on the Circuit Judge rifle/shotgun.

As far as a bug-out/survival weapon, I think the Circuit Judge is a good choice. Low recoil, accurate, and the wife will readily shoot it. I also have to admit that as time goes by shooting accuracy has declined some, making the .410 aspect even more appealing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I personally think it makes a good choice, not over-looking the great value of a good .22 LR. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Outstanding, thanks Tom! I'm glad it performed well and that's unfortunate about the fixed sights. Sounds like a red dot would certainly help out.

Great thread Randy!

The Circuit Judge rifle/shotgun has adjustable sights, the Judge PISTOL does not. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the info

Skunk I did not read the whole thread before answering this so if I am way off just tell me. You wrote The .410 will be a good game getter for "living off the land" skunk in all honesty and this is just MY opinion if you are concerned with a game getter for eating you would be better off with a 22 LR as you can shoot a whooooole bunch of critters with that. I know alot of people think survival and I totally respect that but what good is a gun if you do not have or can not get ammo for it, 22 LR is cheap and you get ALOT of rounds, that's ALOT of wabbits, squirrels, chipmunks, snakes the list goes on and on. If I could could choose 2-3 guns it would be my Ruger 10/22, 30-06 because that is such a common round you are bound to be able to trade for some and have it much more accessible should u need ammo and my personal sidearm (40 S&W) the 22 has a very low signature and if you pay the tax on it you can get it suppressed and hunt with it in your live off the land backyard and no one will ever hear it.

Ah yes, I see that now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />.

I don't think you're off base at all. I agree, Personally I think a 22 would be much better, quieter, more ammo per pound, it's EVERYWHERE and weapons chambering it are VERY common.

That said, as Tom pointed out SOME of us are not the shots we used to be, We're getting older, had accidents, now wear glasses...etc.

MY main reasoning is it IS a double duty weapon. .410 for small game, or even shooting .410 slugs. PLUS the 45 Colt round is nothing to be laughed at. It IS a proven self defense/offense round IN AN EMERGENCY following the survival thoughts of this thread. That double duty (better that a 22 for the same dual purpose) just makes sense, bigger projectile, bigger hole.

The Circuit Judge rifle/shotgun is just plain fun to shoot, and the light weight makes it easy to carry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Price aint bad either!

it comes down to is it the gun for you. the rest is just peoples 2 cents.

I think the Judges are fun but not my choice for a survival pistola. A 9mm Glock or a .22 Ruger or Browning make more sense to me.

Here's a few pics of the Circuit Judge rifle/shotgun and the Judge pistol.







I like my toys! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I like your toys too Tom! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Hey, I got a knife just like the one in the middle. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

cool pictures

Sweet Pics! I've enjoyed my Judge. It keeps the javalinas at bay(see avatar). Its nice to be able to utilize multiple munitions in one package. I usually keep a couple of .410 birdshot shells for snakes and the rest .45LC for anything bigger when out in the bush. Although .410 buckshot and slugs fare pretty well through it as well.
As far as being utilized as a BOB combo, while I don't think it would be as optimum as a Combo Over and Under, I still think it would be handy to be able to utilize as a shotgun/rifle in one package. I just noticed that they make a Circuit Judge that fires .22 and .22 mags so that might be a nice BOB option as well.
I've been toying with the notion of picking up the Raging Judge Magnum and adding 454 Casull to the mix. I like options, especially if the S were to HTF.
J

nice pics.

Thanks a lot guys!!

Talking about guns we can't get here in Kali. (Judge)

I'm squarely in the 22LR camp. For me its about versatility and the weight of ammo.

I have two 16oz Nalgene bottles filled with 550 rounds (EACH) of 22LR in my Bug-Out Gear. I wouldn't want to venture a guess as to how much 1,100 rounds of 45 Colt or 410 ammo would weigh.

The Ruger Mk2 and Mk3 handgun is a survivalist's best friend.

Just thought of something germane....

Castner's Cutthroats of WW2 fame carried 22LR handguns for harvesting game.

For those who are asking who were Castner's Cutthroats?

During World War II Japan invaded the Aleutian Islands (Alaska). Castner's Cutthroats were a group of outdoorsman that were recruited to serve as scouts and scout/snipers in the islands.

They were NOT supplied regularly by the military. They were required to "live off the land" and did a great job of it.

In fact, when the "big army" showed up to repeal the invasion, CC's ended up having to feed the beleaguered men.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castner%27s_Cutthroats

"Standard issue for Castner's Cutthroats was a Trapper Nelson pack, hunting knife, .22LR caliber target pistol and a sniper rifle, instead of the standard issue Springfield rifle, or M1 Garand. However, when it came to firearms, personal preference was the deciding factor. Al Brattain, a crack shot, preferred the M1 Garand because its reduced recoil did not spoil his aim. Trapper Nelson packs held all their supplies for their long mountainous treks. They lived off the land, which allowed them to stay light, unlike most military units of the time. To move from island to island, the men used canoes, from which they fished for salmon. The salmon was dried and stored for the winter, furthering the unit's ability to stay out in the field."

Nice history info. I love that stuff. And 22lr is a great round

Arch, That is an awesome piece of history I wasn't privy too. Thanks for sharing.

Just out of curiosity, in your BOB is 22LR the sole caliber you would carry, or would you have something a little larger for defense?

While the Judge may not be the supreme choice for a survival situation or Bugging out situation, In the area that I live I would feel more comfortable with something a little bigger for self defense, as I would be more likely to encounter a black bear, mountain lion, or feral hog, than a group of marauders. It is the option of having a single firearm with the capability of putting food on the table and being able to serve as a defense tool as well that I can see the OP's point of view.

J

Jaytock, I'm not sure about FACTORY loads, but I DO know you can handload a 45 colt round to have more power than a 44 mag.

SH, That is a handy piece of info I'll be looking into as I have reloading equipment on my shortlist, thanks. I meant that I would feel more comfortable with a Judge on my hip in my location than just a 22LR.
Have you had chance to put any 410 buckshot through yours? I haven't had the opportunity to take it with me hog hunting yet, but I can attest to the damage it causes against old car doors! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
J

J,

My wife's Bug-Out gear consists of a Ruger 10/22 Stainless with Leupold 2-7x33mm VariX2 optic and a Glock 19 (9mm) with night sights.

My Bug-Out gear consists of ONE of the following rifles (depending on my mood and the situation): Arsenal SGL-21 (Russian made AK47 in 7.62x39mm), Arsenal SLR-106FR (Bulgarian made AK101 in 5.56x45mm), Colt 6520 (5-1/2 pound 16" lightweight barreled AR15A2 with collapsible stock), DS Arms SA58 (18" Para Model FAL) and a Ruger Mk3 handgun.

We both have "defensive" weapons and we both have "hunting" weapons.

My wife is small and therefore is getting the 22 rifle. She can handle it, and it is easier to use effectively than a 22 handgun. Her 9mm can be used for close in defense (and is to be worn at all times). It also gives us the ability to sneak into towns as "grey people" to gather information and supplies...while being armed.

My firearms skill set is refined, and therefore I can make the most use out of the defensive rifle and a 22 handgun. Also, as the stronger person, I can carry more centerfire rifle ammo.

Ammunition Counts:

22 Long Rifle = 2,200rds between the two of us regardless of what rifle I choose.

9mm = Wife has 75rds.

5.56x45mm (DEFAULT OPTION) = My "default" bug-out defense rifle is the Colt 6520 with 13 30rd mags (28 rounds each) for a total of 364rds of 5.56x45m.

5.56x45mm (AK101 Option) = If I choose the 556 AK my ammo count drops to 270 rounds (9 30rd mags with 30rds each).

7.62x39mm (AK47 Option) = If I chose the 762 AK my ammo count drops to 270 rounds (9 30rd mags with 30rds each).

7.62x51mm (FAL Option) = If I choose the FAL my round count drops to 180 rounds (9 20rd mags with 20rds each).

Clearly choosing the lightweight Colt yields the most ammo. The other options include heavier weapons and magazines. The AK47 and FAL also include heavier ammo.

Jaytok, I don't have either Judge, but Tom (private klink does). Only .410 I have is a bolt action with the tube magazine under the barrel like some 22 rifles.

SH, oops my mistake!
J

Circuit Judge 22lr/mag anyone?

That's interesting, is that really an available combo?

Skorpyd, here you go

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/04/20/rossi-circuit-judge-22lr-and-22-magnum/

I've not found how many rounds it holds. At the Rossi site that I saw the had the .410 under the 22 information page.

Thanks skunk, it's interesting but I think I'll stick with the 10/22.

I still need a 22 pistol. Probably will end up with the Stainless Ruger

Hum... just looking over some old threads. How about this combination.

22 handgun AND a .410 shotgun. The 22 could be your primary small game gun and the .410/45colt could serve the same purpose AND work as a defensive weapon in a pinch. You could shoot bird/buckshot, OR slugs through it and have the 45colt rounds for more unsociable critters of the two OR four leg variety. Think guerrilla tactics, shoot and run, NOT stand and fight.

Remember our premiss, we are the rabbit, trying to NOT BE SEEN by others, but needing to at times provide food and safety if necessary.

This thread is only to get us thinking, for those that can't afford the "load on Monday and shoot all week" wonder weapon, but something a lot of folks will have.

There has been a lot of good posts by folks, from novices to experts. Anyway, thanks to everyone for posting. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Just checked, the .410 I have is the Stevens model 59A, bolt action with tubular under barrel magazine. Hum.. wonder if it would cycle and fire the 45colt? Yeah I know it's a smooth bore, but I was just wondering.