Hi KG- I am working my way up by using a Lansky and also a mouse pad system that is homemade. I just spotted one over at JRE ? and it looks much better than my handmade job so going to snag it. There is also one from another place I am considering ? Will try to get links.I am also looking at an Apex Pro which also looks useful. I figure if I learn the basic angles and such on the " non motorized" - when I buy my Delta or other I shouldn't ruin too much <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. Maybe a bit- but not bad . What do you think of that approach KG ? Also- thanks for your great instructions. Wish I could find a knife maker close to me so i could drive him nuts with questions <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />-Thanks