I posed the question:

Are you interested in hearing about how an architect and banker went from being "consumer driven typical Americans who though money and career success were paramount" to a "couple of simple living rural people who have a quality of life that is second to none".

You've shown some interest, but please understand to fully explain this journey would be a monumental undertaking. Adam (Spider Pig) aptly suggested I give an abbreviated version and if someone is interested in a certain topic I could expand upon that specific area. It was a great suggestion so here goes:

I'm going to give a very brief background on who we were:

By the time I was in my mid-20's I was a rising professional with two college degrees, a promising career in architecture, etc. I built my first house immediately after graduation with a $1 down payment. Yes, $1. I also bought a new Mustang that year, and had $35,000 in student loans.

I had a tough childhood, and was never taught proper finances. To me, if you could afford the payments you could afford the product. I'm the first person in my family to graduate from High School (neither parents, or grandparents graduated from HS). My father (Vietnam Vet) left when I was seven while we were living in Germany (he was stationed there). Prior to, and after that, I moved A LOT. I ended up living with a relative that was a "military styled survivalist" quite a lot growing up.

My wife, who is 6 years younger than I, grew up in an affluent family filled with success. Her family is the sort of "middle America" family that most people think are only fictional. Everyone is college educated, very successful, pillars of the community sorts with huge social networks (wine tasting parties, yard parties in the kinds of neighborhoods you see in the movies about "perfect middle American life", etc). She has a Bachelor's degree, and worked in banking for 11 years prior to quitting for our "downshifting" lifestyle. To her, debt is equal to sin.

She was the "mother hen" to her siblings. I barely knew my sister (12 years my junior).

Her parents divorced, but remarried (the same year, LOL) and have been remarried over 20 years now.

My parents divorced, and remarried many times to many people. At one point, I know my father was married to a woman who was younger than me and in prison at the time of their marriage.

Basically my wife and I came from "opposite ends" of the social spectrum. Opposites attract, right? Anyway, we are so similar in our world views as to be able to complete each other's sentences. She is, without a doubt, the best thing that has ever happened to me...as you will see.

We started dating when I was 30 years old (she was 24). This was December 2004. At the time, she had just built a nice little starter home with a substantial down payment. I was in the same house I built at age 23 and had managed to owe more than I built it for. I built my first house in 1997 for $87k, but owed $93k in 2004.

When we met it was INSTANT sparks. It was obvious from the very first second that I wanted to spend my life with this woman. This feeling has only grown over the past 9.5 years. Neither of us had ever experienced anything like the feelings we shared. It is magical. I wish everyone could have a marriage like ours (and we believe they can. The formula is very simple: don't be selfish and childish...place the other person's interests ahead of your own in a loving way. As long as they're doing the same thing - you'll live in bliss).

Anyway...

In March 2005 I traded the 2005 Mustang GT I had bought in October 2004 for a new 2005 Ford SUV at my (now) wife's suggestion. This was the first of many good financial decisions. We still have that 2005 SUV, and hope it will last another 10 years!!!!

In April 2005 we bought an eight year old custom built 2100sf house in a nice neighborhood, and moved in together. We were both able to sell our houses and put a 20% down payment on the new home. We spent the next seven years there.

We married in February 2007.

The moment we moved in together she sat about GENTLY teaching me about finances. There was never one argument, or guilt trip, etc. She has a way of dealing with me that disarms me and makes me receptive instead of defensive. One day she came home from the bank where she worked with a spread sheet that showed we could be down to just our mortgage debt in less than four years. That day we owed:

$4,000 My Medical Bills
$18,000 Nissan Car
$24,600 Ford SUV
$33,000 My Student Loans
$36,000 Home Acreage (I had bought 2 acres a little further out before meeting my wife with the intention of building a home on it).
$MORTAGE on our house

It took A LOT of convincing, because I simply didn't believe people could be "debt free". She kept going over the numbers, and explaining reversed compounding interest, etc. Eventually I accepted she was right, and was FLOORED. The feeling of HOPE that poured over me was overwhelming. We could be down to our mortgage in just a number of years! Keep in mind, we never "hurt" for anything or were worried about money. We made plenty enough to continue living the way were living, but she wanted a better life for us.

Here was her plan...

1) She already had us on a general budget, but wrote out every item on a detailed budget. This even included a "snack food" line item.

2) We cut ALL unnecessary expenses. She quotes Dave Ramsey a lot so "live today like no other so we can live tomorrow like no other". This included: no cable tv, no internet, no going out to eat, no vacations, no extraneous travel (gas costs money), no going out to movies, no magazine subscriptions, etc.

3) We placed the 2 acre lot on the market for sale.

4) We placed her car up for sale. We made the decision to drop down to one car so we could save money (cancel the debt on it and eliminate 50% of our car insurance costs).

5) We revisited the budget every week to make sure we're meeting or exceeding it.

We sold her car pretty quickly, and shared one vehicle for the next six years. Remember, we lived 17 minutes (at 70mph) from the edge of town we both worked full time in. This was a big sacrifice, but it paid off.

Selling the land turned into a nightmare. We simply could not recover what I had paid (I paid $40k plus spent $5 building a drive onto it). After YEARS of trying (and exploring the option - IN DEPTH - of building a house on it) we finally sold it for $31,900. This $14,000 loss was painful, but it cleared another line item off the books.

She had a "debt snowball plan" meaning we eliminated the smallest debt first, and then rolled that extra money into the next larger debt item...repeat repeat repeat.

Before long we were down to just our single SUV and house. We paid the SUV off almost six months earlier than she had predicted.

At this point, I think it is important to note: we live in an economically depressed area and don't have "high incomes". Yes, I am an architect and earned my first license a year after we were married HOWEVER, in my area very few architects make more than about $80k a year. Most are in the $50-80k range. My wife was making $15 an hour at the bank. The reason I bring this up is to serve as notice that we weren't making over $100k at any point in this process. EVERYONE reading this can be debt free if you just have the will power to do so.

More to come later.

I have always been into guns, gear, uniforms, equipment, hiking, camping, shooting, training, hunting and fishing (this is the least of these), self-preservation and survivalism. I bought my first AR15 at age 10, and have continuously owned ARs since 1984. As previously mentioned, I grew up with a 1980's style survivalist who heavily influenced me in this regard. In High School I tried to organize a "Survivalist Club". My college apartment had a closet filled with camo, field gear, MREs and water containers. This was just who I was. When the 1999 Y2K scare ramped up so did I. From 1999 until about 2009 I was in a flurry of training and assessment.

My wife came from a "guns are scary - who needs anything other than a phone and car to survive? You can call the police or drive to a Hilton" family.

Our decision to not travel or vacation meant we needed to find alternatives for "down time". We decided to go camping since it was only $5 at a local State Park. My wife LOVED it. This was her first introduction to a "wilderness lifestyle". She thought cooking on an open flame, sleeping in a tent and watching "her man" baton through firewood with a Bussekin in the rain was "sexy". We started camping A LOT!

I had already given her basic instruction on firearms usage, and she had a scheduled amount of training she was putting in. The first camping trip kicked everything into motion. She applied for her Carry License, started looking at food differently, etc.

At this point, we had already left the "consumer" life but now were were leaving the "matrix" life too.

She had been interested in conservative politics but became involved and started researching all of the topics we discussed at the dinner table (world government, carbon taxes, etc). It wasn't long before she was leading the conversations.

We also started looking at food differently. We were given some "free range" turkey eggs to take on one of our camping trips. After tasting them she jumped head first into "natural food" research.

While she was getting up to speed with libertarian politics and safe food knowledge I was EXCEEDINGLY busy training, testing, and teaching (online) all things survival related. This was a period of hyper activity for us. She with the food and I with the survival.

All of these factors combined into a single epiphany.

Her efforts to be politically involved was a huge learning process wherein she found that there wasn't any real desire to fix the problems that exist. There is just greed (for power over people and wealth). I had reached this conclusion years earlier, but she had to find out we cannot change the system. Her interest in "natural food" lead her to "organic food" research which resulted in us both reading DOZENS of books and concluding that "American table fare" is absolutely AWFUL for you and the environment. Being down to just our mortgage allowed us to start buying organic food. We instantly starting losing unwanted fat, and our general health improved.

My intense survival activities (building a food pantry that was very well stocked, extensive bug-out bags, etc) resulted in me starting to question the "internet philosophy" and "truths" of preparing for disasters. I started asking questions like: where are you going to go if you bug out? What happens if you have 3 months of food stored and "it" lasts 6 months?

We sat about trying to "live more independently" on our 1/8th acre sub-division house lot. We grew a raised bed garden, and planted some fruit trees. We started considering how to use every square foot of space on the tiny lot for food production and considered putting a storm shelter in the ground (the house didn't have a basement).

One evening after working on our tiny raised bed garden, and after spending a lot of time drawing plans in CAD on how to use EVERY SQUARE FOOT of our 1/8th acre lot to grow a fruit and vegetables we concluded that this wasn't going to work.

We had already spent an enormous amount of time trying to find a way to build an economically feasible house on the 2 acres (about 25 minutes from town) that we eventually sold. We felt the 2 acres would enable us to have a large garden, fruit trees, etc. This plan failed miserably and we sold the lot at a huge loss.

Simultaneously, we also became interested in environmental issues and "1800's homestead lifestyles". We started visiting orchards, vineyards, etc to observe what it would take to actually LIVE a simple self-sustaining lifestyle instead of just buying products made by someone else.

We also learned about the "downshifting movement" where professionals who had become dissatisfied with the "rat race" and chose to give up on suburban "consumer driven life" for a quiet rural simple life. Basically trade potential earned dollars for personal fulfillment and growth.


We spent the next 18 months INTENSIVELY planning, researching, reading, visiting, and looking for a place where we could have build a simple ecologically friendly, organic food rich lifestyle.

Our foray into organic food had become a lifestyle. This is NOT an exaggeration. In our area, to purchase all of the organic food we eat we have to visit: (1) Co-Op, (2) Natural Food Stores, (3) Super Markets, (2) Wal-Marts, (1) Target, and (1) Fresh Market.

It takes 8 hours of shopping to accomplish this. It became such a time burden we knew something had to change.

This was the driving factor behind our property selection.

We sat down and started to identify what we wanted to accomplish and how we would get there. Here's a brief list of those criteria:

1) Food independence. The food system in the US is fragile and dependent on fossil fuel transportation. The average meal travels over 1800 miles before it makes it to your table.

2) Food safety. I can talk for hours about food safety, but for the sake of my sanity suffice to say we don't believe in: GMOs, petrol-chemical fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, irradiation, or preservatives. We also don't believe in processed foods or foods containing artificial flavors, colors, or additives.

3) Water safety. Municipal water supplies are filled with biological waste, FLUORIDE (the Nazi's were the first people to use this as a pacifying agent...), residual chemicals and pharmaceuticals. Think about all of the Round-Up run off that goes into your water system.

4) Financial Freedom. We were down to just our mortgage, but we wanted a smaller house that could be quickly paid of so I could retire earlier (and work on our farm together).

5) Breathing Room. We didn't want noisy neighbors watching everything we did. At our sub-division house it took 2x longer to complete a task because every busy body had to stop and ask why we were planting a Cherry tree.

Lastly, we wanted a SIMPLE OFF THE GRID life.

We didn't want to be dependent (on anyone but ourselves) for any of these items:

1) Water
2) Food
3) Sewer
4) Electricity
5) Gas

These criteria led us to search for the following property:

HOME: 1200-1500sf
HOME AMENITIES: Full Basement, Wood Stove + Forced Air Heat
LAND: 20-40 acres
LAND AMENITIES: Barn, Septic System, Well Water, Propane Tank For Gas
COST: Less than $250,000

After a lot of prayer, and searching we bought:

HOME: 1300sf Main Level + 300sf Open Loft
HOME AMENITIES: Full Basement, Wood Stove + Forced Air Heat
LAND: 11 acres
LAND AMENITIES: Barn, Septic System, Well Water, Propane Tank For Gas
COST: About $250,000 After Extensive Interior Remodel.

My wife quit her job to manage the remodel and run the farmstead.

Our property is 35 minutes (at highway speeds) from a town large enough to have a WalMart. We live seven minutes (at highway speeds) from a town with a population of 780.

Our 11 acres was about 40% timber and 60% till when the original owners built the house. However, over time the timber has taken over a larger portion of the property. It is now 60-65% timber and 35-40% till. We're in the process of reclaiming the timbered land for use in our organic farming operations.

To date we've completed the following "small holding farmstead" improvements:

* 9 month long total remodel of the interior. I have pictures in another thread that I'll bring in here later.

* EXTENSIVELY designed and revised the design on CAD of our entire property. We have full color plans of every tree we've planted and will plant, etc.

* Bought 32 6"x6" non-treated cedar posts and installed 28 of them in our "vineyard". The posts were over $1000 (cannot use treated posts in organic farming).

* Planted blueberries, raspberries, blackberries and grapes. Have had to replace many plants due to weather, local "big box store plant quality" and our inexperience.

* Planted 4 variety of: apple, peach, plum, cherry, and 2 variety of nectarine and apricot trees in our orchard. As with the brambles, we've had to replace several due to rabbits eating the bark, deer rubbing felt off on them, weather and our inexperience.

* Built a 48" sheep and goat fence around our 0.33 acre garden. We added 24" of chicken wire to the bottom and three electric wires (up to 8') above.

* Built a 48" sheep and goat fence around our rotational grazing sheep paddocks.

* Built a 8' six wire electric fence around all of the tillable area to date. This was 7280 linear feet.

* We built a 6'x7'x12' mobile chicken coop.

* We have raised 10 chickens (2 roo and 8 hen) into a good laying flock producing 6-8 eggs a day. We currently have our "first broody hen" who is sitting on a clutch of eggs to hatch. This takes her out of egg production for six weeks.

* We have raised 16 hens into pullet stage. We hope they start laying in a few months.

* Planted a garden last year before the fence was complete. We didn't get one tomato from our 107 tomato plants due to deer.

* Planted a MASSIVE garden in our fenced garden this year. As an example: I planted over 1500 peas by hand in ONE bed. My wife spends sun up to sun down working on the farmstead.

Our current lifestyle is like this...

Monday thru Thursday I get up at 5:15am and leave for work by 5:45am. My commute is 55 minutes each way. I work 10 hours as an architect, and get home about 6:45 pm each day. This is unless I need to stop at Rural King, Lowe's, Menard's, Home Depot, etc for farming related items. I have to make a stop about twice a week.

Friday thru Sunday I work on the farm sun-up to sun-down.

My wife works on the farm everyday except 1 day per week which is the day she comes into town for grocery shopping and to have dinner with her family.

My wife makes everything from scratch. If we're going to have burgers - she makes the buns. If we're going to have pizza she makes the crust, grates the cheese, etc.

We cook on gas, but also use our woodstove for cooking during the heating months.

This winter was harsh and expended our wood supply. I had procrastinated on getting a chain saw and it cost us dearly. Our propane tank is at about 15% and propane costs are up due to the winter induced shortages.

I bought a Stihl 291 and we spent several 10 hour days culling dead trees from our timbered areas. Our wooded areas have EXTREMELY STEEP hills in them and as "organic farmsteaders" we don't own or use a tractor / four wheeler, etc. We carried, by hand, 24" rounds out of the hilly woods for days. I have a good supply of rounds stored under the roof on my barn (my barn has a covered porch attached), but it isn't enough. We ran out of time because the poison ivy bloomed and I'm allergic. This is one of the lessons we learned: firewood is a full time job. If you have a spare hour - go cut some wood.

Another valuable lesson:

People have lost basic knowledge on homesteading. We have read countless books (as in every night), went to lectures, watched documentaries, visit markets, etc but still make mistakes everyday.

Example: we don't have enough time to make mulch so our fruit trees and brambles are constantly being over taken by grass.

Our garden is a NIGHTMARE this year. We bought a tiller last year, but it had constant problems this year. Combined with the late snows and earlier rains we planted too late in improperly prepared soils. As our first year to "really have a garden" it looks terrible but has TONS of food growing in it. Our strawberries, asparagus, tomatoes, potatoes, sweet potatoes, peppers, beans, peas, radishes, lettuces, sunflowers, turnips, etc are all growing. I'll post a list later after I find it on my computer.

Our garden lesson is: don't go too big too fast.

Forgot we also have planted Almond and Hazelnut trees.

We have tons of plans in various stages of development as well:

* Build a green house. This is a PRIORITY!

* Build a sheep shed. We held off on getting sheep this year, because we don't have time to build a shed.

* Build a wood shed. I want more wood than will fit on our Barn Porch so I need to build this.

* Build a fence around the 2.5 acres of scrub adjacent to our tillable land and turn goats out on it to clean it up.

* Buy a chipper and start making mulch. LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of mulch.

* Improve our land by improving our chicken manure collection and composting operation.

* Improve our land by having sheep and goats poop on it.

* Finish our rain water collection system.

* Cut our last grid-tied utility by installing a 100% solar system.

* Build an irrigation system for our garden (my wife has been spending four hours a day 2x a week pulling 450 feet of hose around).

* Install a solar powered back up well pump.

* Improve our canning operation.

* Start our wine making operation.

* Plant more fruit and nut trees.

* Plant mulberry trees in the protected free range animal pastures.

* Improve our hay growing and manual cutting / storage operation.

* Build up our manual tool collection.

I think this is a good stopping point. My head is hurting, I have work to do and I'm getting cross eyed.

You're free to ask questions and I'll expand on areas as I think of them.

Pictures of the farm house model...

The road to our house...



The finished interior...

If anyone knows how to make the links show the pictures...feel free to make that happen!

Forgot to mention this about the fence project:

* We bought and hauled over 400 six and eight foot metal t-posts
* We bought and hauled 7 rolls of 330ft sheep and goat fence. Each roll weighs 291 pounds.

* We drove, by hand, over 325 of the t-posts.
* Stretched and hung over four rolls of the 291 pound fencing.
* We installed over 7280 linear feet of polywire electric fencing.
* Built three gates with electrical conduit buried under them to allow continuous multi-loop electric fencing.

We did all of this without a single mechanical device. ETA FOR CLARIFICATION: We used a truck to haul the products from the store to our barn, but it was by hand from there on.

Here's the list of what we're trying to produce. If there's a * next to it we haven't started it yet.

Berries & Raisins

Blackberries (4 varieties)
Blueberries (5 varieties)
Grapes (3 varieties)
Raisins
Raspberries (3 varieties)
Strawberries (5 varieties)

Eggs & Meat

Eggs
* Lamb

Fruit

Apples (4 varieties)
Apricots (2 varieties)
Cherries, Baking (2 varieties)
Cherries, Sweet (2 varieties)
Peaches (4 varieties)
Plums (3 varieties)
Nectarines (2 varieties)

Greens

Arugula
Beet Greens
Chard
Kale
Lettuce
Mesclun Mix
Spinach
Turnip Greens

Herbs & Spices

Basil
Chives
Cilantro
Dill
Garlic
Oregano
Parsley
Sage
Thyme

Melons

Cantaloupe
Honeydew
Watermelon

Nuts & Seeds

Almonds
Hazelnuts (Filberts)
Peanuts
Pumpkin Seeds
Sunflower Seeds

Vegetables

Asparagus
Beets
Beans, Green & Purple Snap
Broccoli
Cabbage, Green & Red
Cauliflower
Carrots
Corn, Flour & Ornamental
Corn, Sweet
Cucumbers, Pickling & Slicing
Onions, Green
Onions, Red & Yellow
Peas, Shelling
Peas, Snap
Peas, Snow
Peppers, Hot
Peppers, Sweet
Potatoes, Red & Yellow
Potatoes, Sweet
Pumpkins, Carving & Pie
Radishes
Squash, Butternut
Squash, Spaghetti
Squash, Yellow
Tomatillo
Tomatoes, Canning
Tomatoes, Cherry
Tomatoes, Slicing
Turnips
Zucchini

Gary, this is more than I ever imagined. THANK YOU for the journey through your life. I am so glad that you and the "Young lady" seemingly haven't suffered from burn out. You BOTH have done a lot, lot of work, work that one day will give you a satisfaction many of us only dream about.

Thank you sir for sharing your journey.

Randy,
Thanks for making the pictures live.

This thread is a great example of "be careful for what you wish for, because you might get it"!

I felt it was important to give a brief overview of the influences and personalities that lead us to where we are. Our journey has been a hard one, and there are a lot of miles ahead. However, every night when I pull upon MY LAND and see MY CHICKENS on MY FARM and MY WIFE standing at the door with a smile waving to me as I pull up I realize those jobs I turned down in big cities making REAL money would have never made me happy, because what I have now makes me happier than I could have ever imagined.

There aren't too many things more rewarding than building something with someone you love.

Here are some more pictures.

Our grown laying hens:


Chicken coop under construction:


Completed chicken coop (the plywood was temporary - protection before our fence was completed). You can also see the start of our fence:


Our first egg (my wife's hand):


Fence building in winter:


Some completed fence:


When we started the vineyard/brambles:


Frontier farmstead life:


Deer (taken on my driveway):


Deer (taken in my great room looking out on the start of the vineyard):

Guest (taken on driveway):


Another Guest (taken by barn):

Our 16 additional hens when they arrived (you should see them now..they're all teenagers!):

My wife checking on the pullets in our temporary grow-out pen:

ETA: Adult chickens can be seen to the right of the grow-out shelter run.

Here's the barn porch we're now using as a temporary wood shed:

You need children. Curious if and/or how your views will change / shift, if at all. Worst case scenario, they can be used to carry logs out of the hills

(ps - not advocating for children. if you've decided against it, that's nobody's business but your own. i only bring it up as it typically creates a force function to re-prioritize most of your life)

Ish,
Children are a biological impossibility for us. We wanted them, but serious health issues have made it 100% biologically impossible. We've ruled out adoption too.

I guess its not a big secret...

At 36 years old I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. This was six days after I buried my 59 year old father who died from it. His dad was 40 when he died from it.

One week before my 37th birthday I hard extensive surgery to remove my prostate and lower portion of my bladder. The surgery was a technical failure, because the cancer had spread however they only left "margins".

As of last Thursday I am still in clinical remission. July 7th will make 3 years.

My wife also has severe endometriosis (and fibromyalgia). We tried to get pregnant well before the cancer, but her system couldn't handle a pregnancy.

These were strong contributing factors in our decision to "go organic" and move out into clean air with plenty of exercise.

July 15th is my 40th birthday.

Interesting side note:

Continued failure of the DRE (digital rectal exam) is what ended up getting me booted out of USMC OCS. Apparently in the late 1990's the only people getting screened for prostate issues were Marine Officers.

The Docs had me report the issues to my civilian primary care physicians. He checked my PSA. At 25 it was 2.1. The enlarged / hard prostate and elevated PSA couldn't be brought down before my 26th birthday (the maximum entry age for USMC officers at that time). So I was done.

ETA: I had grown tired of being an architect and had accelerated my survival training ot a point where I felt I needed to "go pro". This led me to Marine OCS. All Marine officers are trained as infantry officers first so I thought it would advance my skill set.

2011 was a bad year. I buried my estranged father. Was diagnosed with cancer. Re-united (briefly) with my sister. Saw the fear on my wife's face when they told me what treatment I needed IMMEDIATELY. Had extensive surgery. Had to learn to deal with the consequences of having your urinary and reproductive system cut up.

2012 was a better year. We bought the farmstead. It wasn't a great year though because the 9 month remodel was rough.

2013 was a great year.

2014 is even better.

The only reason I brought my health into the thread is because it had a level of impact on our worldview. It brought into sharp focus the importance of healthy foods and lifestyles. Look at the avatar picture. I think that was last year. I'm in pretty good shape considering I do not lift weights or exercise (in a traditional sense). The work we do around the farmstead keeps us both fit.

My physicians were AMAZED at how quickly I recovered. I was somewhat of a medical celebrity for a while, because how many 36 year olds get diagnosed with prostate cancer? As a result, there has been some close scrutiny of my recovery. I 100% attribute it to: God (the great healer), comfort (knowing my wife was going to be there for me no matter what) and our hard-working organic food eating lifestyle. Plan and simple: nutrition and natural exercise can save lives.

My PSA screening last week WENT DOWN from the previous. It is still "undetectable" meaning I'm on the path toward being declared "cured".

When my father died I received a call from his eldest brother (my uncle) whom I hadn't seen or talked to since 1981. This was in 2011. Thirty years later. He wanted to talk to me about prostate cancer in the family. He told me about their father, and the fact he too had it (in his 60's). He had chosen to not seek treatment, but instead handled it this way:

Sold his successful contracting business in Florida, and moved to a small farmstead in the midwest. Ate little meat, and tons of organic fruits and vegetables. Gets lots of exercise working outside.

He told me if I wanted to survive I needed to do the same thing. We went to visit his tiny country home. While there he talked about my dad's other siblings: the other brother died at 50 from cancer and the youngest sister at 44 from it.

We left and didn't talk about the visit.

Ironically, we ended up doing the same thing he has done (except I chose to be medically treated).

Arch, what an insane amount of story and information, thank you for taking the time to write it all down Also, good luck with your health going forward, it sounds like it's moving in the right direction though.

I'm still working my way through the thread, but it would be interesting to know how you mitigated the plant loss due to deer/rabbits/etc.

I assume you didn't just use lead to fix that problem

MD,
We had to dig up and replant new where the depredation killed the plants. We now have a 8,800 volts (min) six wire electric fence protecting everything we're growing. I did see a slack wire, and when I went to investigate found a pile of deer belly fur. I guess one thought it could slip thorough. Based upon the amount of fur on the ground and on the wire...I doubt it'll be back any time soon

As for shooting them. We take a shot at every coyote we see on our property, but that's it. We don't eat venison since they graze on GMO soybean and corn.

I just got back from physical therapy.

I echo what Randy said. That is a pretty big undertaking and I really appreciate the time you have taken today to explain to us your philosophies and the journey that has taken you to where you are.

I only recently heard about pharmaceuticals in the municipal water systems. All the drugs that get flushed don't go away.

I'm interested in reading about your day to day activities, if you don't mind. It doesn't have to be in great detail.

Also, do you have plans to raise livestock? I saw the word "lamb" mentioned and I'm wondering if sheep will be the extent of it. A steer will go a long way for two people. Of course then will be using a lot of energy keeping the meat frozen.

Congratulations on your continuing to be in clinical remission.

I enlisted in the Marines in the late '90's and we were not subjected to a prostate exam, so that must've indeed been an OCS candidate thing.

Very happy to hear about your remission. Sounds like a bit of genetic predisposition.

Fully understand the difficulties of pregnancy. My wife had to have 16 fibroids surgically removed, the largest being around 6.5cm diameter...all so we could get pregnant. After the surgery, we were lucky enough to have an egg take hold not 3 months later.

Additionally, I fear the day my father passes. He's my one true friend in this dark world.

Stay strong.

Adam,
We plan to add goats (for milk) and sheep (for meat). Both will help compost manure.

Our day-to-day varies everyday. We do what has to be done.

I was told that Marine Officers were the only people submitted to finger-butt test.

Ish,
Thanks for the kind words and congrats on your success. We weren't as lucky after my wife had her surgery.

Adam,
Found this...

http://www.airwarriors.com/community/index.php?threads/more-questions-about-meps.22628/

" Also, don't forget to tell them you need a prostate check because Navy and Marine Officer School candidates require them.;) "

Hahaha! How could you forget to mention THAT?!!

The biggest thing I remember from MEPS was a bunch of kids younger than me (I was 20) really enjoying bossing everyone around. The E-5's and above were much more professional.

Adam,
Sorry for the rushed response. Dealing with a lot of work issues today, and will miss work tomorrow (its my post PSA Draw follow up appointment. They call with my results, but I still have to see the doc).

We do have a bit of a farm routine.

The chickens get fresh water every day, we have to collect eggs every day, and the pullets get some USDA certified organic feed. The full grown birds might get a little if its been raining all day and they've had a hard go at foraging.

Otherwise, we plan the next day every evening before. It could be 4 hours of pulling weeds followed by 4 hours of planting followed by misc chores or 6 straight hours of field maintenance followed by moving the chicken coop and turning over compost. We don't eat during our Friday-Sunday work days. We eat breakfast before and dinner after. No time for lunch. We do try to remember adequate water breaks. Hydration is important and especially for me.

My first trip to MEPS was ... interesting ...

As someone being admitted directly to OCS (professional) I was given a room at the hotel to myself, and was allowed to drive myself to the hotel and to the MEPS station. That's where the wheels came off my day.

All kids were horsing around and I was isolated by the Gunny assigned to me. Eventually before the sound and vision rooms we were all told to assemble together. I strolled up at the end of the line. That's when the bus departure speech came and the little part about no weapons. As an officer candidate I wouldn't be taking the bus but I still had an obligation to answer "yes" when we were asked if anyone had a knife or .... gun ....

That poor sap didn't know what he had on his hands. He was kid gloves with me and asked where the knife was. To which I responded, well the knife is in my pocket and the guns are under my shirt. He said.. "GUNS???". They asked to me to unload them and put them on the deck at my feet. So out came a knife, Glock 19, Glock 26, and three spare mags, a baton, can of mace, and pair of brass knuckles. (This was my standard traveling gear at the time). He said "HOLY **^#!" The kids all looked scared, impressed and generally freaked out. The Gunny took me out to vehicle and only said "you're going to make on he&& of a Recon Marine (he knew my father was Recon and that I was going that route)".

After I went back in all of the kids thought I was James Bond. They didn't understand the special circumstances and I had already been briefed on the the frat agreement.

Still makes me laugh!

Failed that day, and had to reschedule a return.

I kind of hope that Gunny finds this thread, joins the site, and chimes in. I'd love to hear his recollection of that day, LOL!

I probably wasn't a good fit for the structured nature of the Marines - especially as an Officer. My father was an old school Marine, and I remembered him enough to know better. I lacked the maturity needed at that time, but looking back I still feel a sense that I missed a great adventure and my chance to serve.

Yeah, I didn't see anything like that! That would've been pretty exciting.

Sounds like your weekends are booked solid with farm work. I don't think you could take a vacation if you wanted to.

The Officer Selection Officer never once mentioned the incident. I believe the gunny was incentivized to get Candidates through the screening process and into OCS so I doubt he mentioned it.

Our weekends have literally been sun-up to sun-down. No exaggerations.

We can't vacation because of the chickens (and future sheep and goats). We have to be around to ensure they have safe drinking water, the electric fence is protecting them, etc.

You'd be surprised what sort of mischief chickens can find. We've had them fly over the fence and get stuck in bushes, eaten by coyotes, one had his head stuck in the little container we carry the eggs in (we couldn't catch him so just around backwards with a tiny bucket stuck on his head), one will get outside the wire and then freak about because it can see the other chickens through the fence. ALL SORTS OF MAYHEM happens when they do this.

Owning 26 chickens is a lot of entertainment (in addition to work).

Our biggest problem to date has been: we're trying to complete 5-10 years worth of work in two years. We are also doing everything on a "beyond hobbyist scale". For example, we currently have 34 fruit trees. 34 x $30 + 12 dead = A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY! As an architect, I'm pretty uptight about everything looking a certain way. This means EVERYTHING is laid out in the field with equipment and measured to the 1/8th.

THE ANAL RETENTION ISSUE HAS CHANGED WITH TIME!

Its odd how you start to realize there are a lot of things you can obsess over that don't really matter. For example, we spend days design (in CAD) and then laying out (in the field) our orchard. Guess what...trees are NOT perfectly straight. They are bent, gnarled and grow unevenly.

Yes, I had chickens when I was growing up. We just kept them as pets really. They foraged for their food and drank from the horse troughs. The only work we really had to do was keep the coyotes away and cull some roosters from time to time.

I can relate to the way architects see things. My father-in-law is a retired NASA engineer and he is the exact same way.

He not only frustrates himself, but everyone else too!

He bought the plans for his house from a homebuilder in the late seventies and built the house himself with some help from his brothers. The only work he didn't do was pour the slab. Way overbuilt. The wall studs are 2x6's. It's about a 3000sf 2 story home.

After seeing your "List" I can't believe Y'all got all that in just 11 acres. Well actually less than that counting the house and barn and any other outbuildings you have.

Seeing how you've got things laid out I bet you could design one heck of a "Country Town".

And again, thank you so much for sharing your journey with us. Just reading about it and specially seeing the pictures is relaxing and calming. Haha and I am sure you're saying WHAT calming and relaxing!

Gary, Can't you just clip the feathers (On only one wing) to keep the Chickens from flying off? OR would that put them in to much danger of not being able to "Escape" if need be?

This is one of the most interesting threads I've read in a long time.

Amen to that!^^^^ Gary, you can be an inspiration for many others, and on different levels. Well done!

What a phenomenal write up, thanks for all the info. I do have a few questions if you don't mind.
1. Why no treated lumber its just a copper based pesticide that shouldn't leach out like the old arsenic and copper sulfide treatments did.
2 Why not us a wheeler or get yourself a pack animal of some sort eventually you will be too worn down to haul cords of wood out of the valleys.
3 Our deer around here have been known to jump over 6' fences just harvest them and donate the meat to the homeless if you dont want to eat it. I guess that is more of a suggestion than a question.
4 Did you do any passive heating and cooling improvements to your home while you were remodeling it?
5 Did you think about moving to a more temperate area with a longer growing season and less need for heat?

That's it for now, I would love to move to my property and do this to an extent but home values have me locked into this house that was going to be a 5 year flip 9 years ago.

Thanks again and I look forward to your answers.

1) Treated lumber contains arsenic and other items that leech into the ground water table and are specifically forbidden in organic food production.

2) An animal that doesn't produce food would strain the eco-system balance (we have limited pasturing land).

3) We have a similar program, but to kill out of season requires a special permit. This means government oversight. No thank you.

4) No. The plan has always been to convert to 100% solar with electric heat. I'm not going to get into the details of the system, but I design buildings for a living and have a fairly robust solution.

5) Not really. We researched a few locations, but the benefit ratio wasn't there.

Yes, we could clip the feathers but elect to not do so. They rarely try to get outside the fence (only the roosters have done so). Our primary concern is predators and flight is their primary defense mechanism. Additionally, they fly up to their roosts. Lastly, as "organic animal husbandry-people" we don't give antibiotics, growth hormones, clip beaks or feathers. The birds are allowed to live as they would in nature (with minor human influence).

ETA: Organic food costs more for a reason: it is a lot more work than the business-farm model.

We have carts, but the woodland terrain is too difficult. Most of our property is too difficult to allow for carts to be pulled by people (while filled with firewood for example). We end up dumping the contents. Its easier to just carry by hand.

I plan on building a people-sled.

Architect did you check into a geothermal heating/cooling solution and reject it in favor of the 100% solar/electrical for heating and cooling?

Do you have problems finding non-GMO or “non-enhanced” seeds? Can you actually taste a difference between them?

With the size of your garden, I take you guys do a lot of canning for off season food requirements. Do you use artificial cooling (refrigerator/freezer) or some form of a form of a root cellar?

What brand work gloves do you use? I’m having a hard time finding quality heavy duty leather work gloves.

Ok thanks Arch just wondered about that stuff. I ask about the passive heating and cooling because I have been thinking of incorporating it into my home when I build and I figured you being an architect you might have some in site into it.

We investigated geothermal, and its not a good fit for our area. If the sun doesn't shine everything dies anyway so we decided to go all solar (in the future when we have an extra $25,000).

Rural King, Menards, Lowe's and Home Depot all carried Organic seeds this year. However, we order most of our seeds from a variety of sources like High Mowing, etc. If you need a list I can provide one.

We do can as well as freeze, dehydrate, and cellar preserve. For examples, carrots will keep if you just stick them in a bucket of sand. The only thing we're nearly 100% dependent upon electricity for is meat. We buy local meat and freeze it. We can dehydrate and can it, but haven't done so yet.

I have plans to build a solar dehydrator. In fact, my wife brought home another book yesterday about it. (I'm also going to build a solar cooker).

I burn through work gloves at an alarming rate. I do have a pair that have lasted for the past month. I'll check the brand tonight. One additional note: I've found that with leather work gloves you should dig through the shelf at the store. The thickness and pliability of the material varies greatly from glove to glove. I try to find the thickest I can, but also value pliability.

Trombe Walls, etc really don't work.

What does work is integrated solar design:

1) Solar orientation.
2) Roof overhangs that block summer sun but allow winter sun in.
3) Solar mass [the best survival house is a partially in-ground design that uses earth of as a massive insulator. The temperature of earth is 55F at about 6 feet...everywhere in the United States].
4) Naturally aspirated ventilation. Designing the locations of windows to encourage summer cross-ventilation based upon the locations prevailing summer winds, etc.

5) If you want "mechanical heat" hydronic systems works well if you have a solar system that powers the pump to move the fluid through a concrete floor. Of course, to be passive the sun would also have to heat the fluid which has proven to be prone to failure.

For heating I believe a solar powered forced air system with sistered wood stove (LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION) is best.

The house design and wood stove should be carefully considered. Eliminate as many hallways / corridors as possible and consider a loft for winter sleeping. The woodstove should be centrally located, but close to an exterior "wood box" door to prevent having to go outside for firewood.

A "wood box" is to be built onto the side of the house with a single opening between the two to permit wood to be pulled in. You fill the wood box instead of carrying in loads of wood (and letting out the heat).

FILL ALL CRACKS. Heating and cooling is lost through the smallest of cracks. "Infiltration" is the #1 cause of problems. Find a natural material and FILL ALL CRACKS! Did I mention to fill all cracks?

Chose the highest quality glazing you can afford. Not all glass is made the same. The quality and location of the coating, etc. all impact the glazing's performance. Try to limit the glazing (doors with glass and windows) to 15% or less of the exterior facade.

EDITED: typos

Great reading!

This is the stuff I have been looking at. My home will be south facing so I am thinking the overhangs should be a good plan. Want to draw up a 1200-1500 sqft home for me? Lol

We will be building with sips so it will be air tight, I also want to do wind and solar.

Sorry I practice commercial architecture (office buildings, hospitals, schools, churches, hotels, factories, etc) exclusively.

Side: don't buy SIPS. You can stick frame for less and build a straw bale structure for even less (and properly constructed these offer A LOT of insulation value).

Best option is a partially in ground with properly reinforced CIP walls and continuous riding exterior insulation.

It's a three part solution: earth (insulator), CI (best manmade insulation solution), concrete (thermal mass and ballistic protection for you prepper types).

Rigid not riding ... I'm going to bed

I have nothing to add to this conversation, but when I was a kid before my dad passed he was seriously considering building (or digging?) an earthen home. I remember being excited about it.

I would love to build it into the hill it will be on but we have seasonal flooding that can be high enough to be in the house if I do that. Temps often are below zero for considerable periods of time so it have to be will either be sips or foamed (which brings the price up to sips anyways.)I stick built houses for a living for 8 years and have experience with both.

sorry I missed the ICFs part they are on the table as well but concrete has increased in price in my area to almost crazy costs.