Apocalypse.

The word evokes images of biblical end times, nuclear holocaust, and other cataclysmic events. However, in the context of this post it means the collapse of civil society. Here's the caveat: I'm not going to disclose WHAT or WHO causes the collapse or the extent, severity, or duration of it. Having created this ambiguous framework, I'd like to hear what everyone chooses for their firearms needs.

Here are the rules:

1) You do NOT have to own what you select. You can select a "dream gun". For the purpose of this thread NO CLASS 3.

2) You're allowed ONE FIGHTING long gun and ONE handgun. However, if you can also ADD a "pack gun" (take down rifle, hunting handgun, etc).

3) You're encouraged to add accessories (optics, lights, whatever).

4) You have explain your selections.

OK, ONE "Long" gun, one Hand gun and One "Pack" gun.

After long and thoughtful deliberation here are MY choices.

ON THE RUN
1. Long gun:
Beretta CX4 Storm 9mm Carbine.(Yeah I know)
OK, NOT exactly a long gun, but my thinking is as follows. First off I think that we should be the rabbit, NOT the wolf. We should be planning on NOT being seen, and NOT being heard. It will have at most a 2 power optic on it, but I am planning (the Lean Chop House stole the optic money this month) on getting a Lucid HD7 gen III red dot that has 4 different reticles. The Carbine is already home to a tactical flashlight. It has high firepower capabilities (20 round mags) and has a long enough effective range for a "duck and cover" weapon.

2. Handgun:
Beretta PX4 with 4 inch barrel. Same caliber as the rifle, meaning carrying the same ammo AND uses the same magazines. Commonality in two areas. Plus won't have to worry about possibly getting the wrong mag and wrong round. Again, be the rabbit. Close in high Capacity firepower. POSSIBLY augmented with a second weapons light.

3. Pack gun:
.22 Rimfire, The ruger 10/22TD with AT LEAST 10 mags augmented with some kind of 2-4 power sight. Right alongside that would be a 550 (or 525) bulk pack of long rifle ammo.(did I mention the magazines would all be loaded as well) This would be a small game (or even deer size)getter, and COULD work in a defensive situation if needed.

Well There you have it, MY choices and reasoning behind them. Now Mind you this could change at any time, but I think this would work pretty well.

I like Randy's philosophy with regards to ammo and magazine commonality.

1. Long gun:
Glock hasn't come out with a pistol caliber carbine yet so my pick is a Mech Tech carbine conversion kit for Glock in 10 mm combined with a Glock 20 frame. The only accessory I would add is a sling and maybe a light. I like Glock for their reliability and 10 mm because you can hunt with it.

2. Pistol:
Glock 20. Maybe a light. Reasons are reliability and 10 mm because it has good penetration for 2 legged critters.

3. Pack gun:
Ruger 10/22 takedown. If we could make this an NFA item then it would be integrally suppressed. No accessories. Reasons are portability and the amount of ammo that can be carried.

Iron sights for everything. Reasons are durability and I don't want to depend on batteries for my optics to function.

I made my selections based on the assumption that I am bugging out. If I were bugging in then my long gun selection would be different.

I do not own any of these firearms.

You both surprised me. I did not expect to see pistol caliber carbines. Usually everyone jumps in these threads with an AR15 or AK47.

Randy's set with the ubiquitous 9mm. If you can't find 9mm then the world has come to an end.

The 10mm is my favorite handgun cartridge. In fact, I ordered a case (1000rds) over the weekend. Hopefully the reassurance of 10mm popularity will continue. I'd like to see more FULL STRENGTH (180gr at 1200 FPS) ammo on the shelves!

I'm going to let this thread ride without mentioning my long gun and handgun choices (for a while anyway). However, I will say the 10/22TD is my hands down choice in a pack gun. The TD version is MORE accurate than the fixed (sporter weight) barreled versions. I've owned a number of each. I do have Tech Sights on my rifle, because they're bombproof and more precise than the factory irons.

I've tried both versions of the sight (TSR100 and TSR200). The 200 is what I settled on, because they're more adjustable. Hope this doesn't violate any forum rules:

Tech Sights TSR-200 CLICK ME!

With WalMart bulk pack Federal 36gr HVHP my TD with TRS200 sights can flip shotgun shell hulls around at 30 yards (standing / supported). That's a head shot on a stationary squirrel or rabbit.

I could do this one as a fantasy experiment but that would be just that. So I will go with the reality of what could be put together here in/for such a scenario.

The rifle, a Remington 7615 with a 1.5-5x Leupold illuminated or (one of the Trijicons in a similar range but that uses the no battery illumination) along with a bunch of 10 round Magpuls. I would add the Mesa Leo stock adaptor and tube with a Magpul CTR. The Remington is as accurate as needed for both hunting and self-protection, it is available, legal and .223 is one of the most common rounds used out here so in addition to what I would own for it there is ample opportunity to scrounge.

For a sidearm it would be a Glock 17A (A for Australia which = a little more barrel to meet our minimum length requirements). All the reasons one would generally own a Glock. It is the handgun I am most familiar with. In a pinch you can also scrounge G22 magazines (the most common Govt issue handgun here) and run them in the 17. Familiarity with the 17 also means that a scrounged 22 is not a big ask to operate. I must also say that this is a tie with an unlikely contender, my 686. The .38/357 is the most commonly used handgun round here still, you have two different rounds available to use and the revolver is plenty reliable.

Finally a pack rifle, well that would have to be my Brno Mod 2 (CZ). It has been shortened to 16 inches and is topped with a 4x Leupold, it is more accurate than I and will happily put food on the table all day long. If I were to make one modification it would be to replace the timber stock with a factory CZ composite one.

CZ rimfire rifles are accurate. Period. I think a person would be hard pressed to find a more accurate PRODUCTION rifle.

I very much regret selling my CZ452 in 22LR and CZ452 Varmint in 22Mag. The 455 just isn't the same rifle.

Andy, if you went with your 686 would you couple it with a lever gun in 38/357? I assume lever actions are legal down under?

I think that most folks knee Jerk reaction to an End of the world situation is based upon the Media (TV, Movies, books...) Gun and Run mentality. That's OK as long as you can get up after you've been killed, once the cameras have stopped rolling that is. BUT I still feel that in a REAL Bug Out situation, you will live longer KNOWING you are the rabbit in a world full of ravenous Wolves.

I once (well OK, SEVERAL times) have read a book called Tunnel in the Sky.
"Tunnel in the Sky is a science fiction novel written by Robert A. Heinlein and published in 1955 by Scribner's as one of the Heinlein juveniles. The story describes a group of students sent on a survival test to an uninhabited planet, who soon realise they are stranded there. The themes of the work include the difficulties of growing up and the nature of man as a social animal."
Full Wikipedia Synopsis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_in_the_Sky

Anyway, in one part of the book the main Characters sister is a commander of some Scouts (military type) and she said when she sends someone out on a scouting only mission she will ONLY allow them to carry a knife. That way they know they must rely on Not being seen and Not being heard. Whereas if they had a firearm of some sort they would be more inclined to use it to get out of a situation instead of an intelligent withdrawal. This has ALWAYS stuck with me.

You are correct about CZ rifles mate, mine is a 1982 Model 2 that I bought new in 1983, the barrel was shortened and it has had a trigger job. [censored] thing just shoots so well it is not funny. it is in a slimline European type stock so it is also much lighter than many of the newer versions in an "American" stock - so to speak.

Lever rifles are legal here mate but I put great stock in the additional power/reach of a rifle round over a pistol round. I would still most probably stick with either the .223 or if just to reach into the safe now and pull out a hard hitting repeating riles, it would be my 30/30 Trapper. It wears Lyman sights and I can happily smack hogs out past 100yds with it all day long.

Different environment Andy. I live in a small town where any "Shots" would be of a limited range. Also our "Bug out Bivouac" is in a heavily wooded area, where even in winter the "Shots" would be of a rather short distance (Probably under 75 yards, heck actually under 50). The Range and the I feel necessity, of remaining unseen and unheard makes the 9mm Carbine and pistol more conducive to this type of mindset. These are my thoughts and they may be flawed if ever needed to be proved, But...

Randy,

Please note: I didn't say anything about bugging out. That's part of the challenge. People are far too quick to want to run out of their house with (maybe) 72 hours worth of food on their backs. This is a recipe for disaster. (Pun intended).

HOWEVER, whatever the event, there MAY be a need to leave your home. Therefore, firearms selection becomes more complicated.

I totally agree. I'd like to use a 308 / 7.62x51mm as a primary rifle, but the ammo simply weighs too much. I have several top of the line 308s (License Built FAL and FN Scar-17) but they're "specialty rifles". The Scar is light enough to be used in a scenario like the one I've created for this thread. However, the ammo and steel magazines are very very heavy.