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Re: Apocalsypse Guns .... [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1035039 11/19/15 07:05 PM
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So here are my considerations for the one fighting long gun:
1. Reliability
2. Durability
3. Accuracy (out to 200 meters)
4. Easy maintenance
5. Magazine fed
6. Proven man killer
7. Weight
8. Availability of spare part
9. Availability of ammunition

While I love to pick a SCAR-16 or SCAR-17 for the ultimate fighting rifle, it would violate consideration #8. The only fighting long gun I would pick that meets all of my considerations is an AR-15 with an 18” barrel. The only ding on my list with the AR-15 is #4. I would forgo any sights in favor of straight iron sights.

As far as a hand gun, the Glock 17 is the only choice. No arguments allowed, my mind is made up, useless to challenge my decision, case closed. Unless…


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Re: Apocalsypse Guns .... [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1035044 11/19/15 09:43 PM
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My 308 (Remington 600 Mohawk), my AR15a3 and Beretta CX4 9mm carbine and the Beretta PX4 9mm decocker only pistol. The last two share the same magazine.

Oh and my Two Weatherby Tactical Shotguns, one a pump action the other a self shucker.

I could also throw in some other handguns from 22 up to 45acp.


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Re: Apocalsypse Guns .... [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1035050 11/20/15 03:51 AM
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I think the AR platform is about as easy as it comes for maintenance, no tools needed for 90 percent of it.


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"dein Gott schickte mich zu zerstören"
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Re: Apocalsypse Guns .... [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1035071 11/20/15 07:16 PM
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Very true. And you only need a few for the other 10%


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Re: Apocalsypse Guns .... [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1035088 11/21/15 09:42 AM
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Endeavour Morse Offline OP
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If ease of maintenance are in your top criterion then you should very strongly consider an AK or FAL. After a lot of years owning, shooting, building, accessorizing, etc virtually every military style design I can say without any reservation that these two stand out as the easiest to work on and maintain. The only tool needed for the FAL (outside of a barrel or locking shoulder change which is a depot level repair) is something with a flat edge (rim of cartridge, knife, screw driver, coin).


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: Apocalsypse Guns .... [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1035089 11/21/15 09:47 AM
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Endeavour Morse Offline OP
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DI AR maintenance is much more involved once you start getting into high round count sessions. Scraping carbon isn't neuro surgery, but it also isn't required by piston format designs.

Additionally, the AR design has a lot of small pins, springs, etc. While I've only experienced a dozen (or so) small parts breakages in various ARs...I've never experienced the same in an AK or FAL (because they don't have any).


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: Apocalsypse Guns .... [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1035090 11/21/15 09:50 AM
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While most people won't shoot a QUALITY DI AR enough to see it, there are other issues with DI. Dumping hot (dirty) gas back on your bolt increases fatigue. This is why I always kept a spare bolt in my kit when a DI AR was my "go to gun". I've seen a lot of busted boots in my lifetime.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: Apocalsypse Guns .... [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1035091 11/21/15 09:53 AM
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The closed receiver design of the: AR, AUG, Daewoo, Sig 556, ARX100, Scar, etc makes cleaning inside difficult. Designs with an open top receiver (ala AK and FAL) are a breeze to wipe out (Pistons don't get as dirty in here).


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: Apocalsypse Guns .... [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1035092 11/21/15 09:57 AM
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The FAL and AK have their own issues (weight, accuracy compared to some other more modern designs, heavy ammo compared to 556, ergonomics (the controls) aren't nearly as convenient, etc.

However, they reign supreme on durability, ease of maintenance and repair.

I often think an 18" barrel FAL with a Para rear sight is the ultimate MadMax Situation gun. It is not, however, the rifle I've chosen.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: Apocalsypse Guns .... [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1035102 11/21/15 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Architect

I often think an 18" barrel FAL with a Para rear sight is the ultimate MadMax Situation gun. It is not, however, the rifle I've chosen.
...... I would agree... or in my case an L1A1F1 with a Hythe rear sight and British plastics.

Re: Apocalsypse Guns .... [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1035104 11/21/15 06:29 PM
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After applying my stated criteria to all the fighting long guns prevalent in my area, it really comes down to the AR-15 or the AK-47. When you factor in the military long gun of choice, the AR-15 pulls way ahead (ammunition and spare parts).

I don’t think any realist can argue that the AR is superior when it comes to reliability, and durability compared to an AK. As a person that takes no joy in cleaning or maintaining firearms (it a chore that need to be done), the AK still tops the AR platform. Then I thought what good are those superiorities when you don’t have bullets available to shoot? And even an AK will break down sometime in the future, and where will I get parts then?

My concerns with the AR-15 and maintenance is that amount of moving parts and their sizes (where’s my ejector spring?) along with the trend of lighter and shorter barrels. I realize that you don’t need to do a complete tear down very often for a normal cleaning, but this is the Apocalypse firearm where talking about. Sooner or later it will happen. And shorter barrels are great for urban combat, but at the expense of decreased accuracy at longer ranges. How many of you see yourselves fighting close up in an urban environment after the Apocalypse? I can’t begin to express how much I HATE urban combat or combat in cities.

Another thing I’m wondering about, how many people are still proficient with iron sights? What happens when you bump/drop/bang that top of the line scope into uselessness or your batteries run out? Do you then learn how to shoot using iron sights? Do you expect your target to be at such great range that you’ll need scopes to engage? Or is it to supplement weak eye sight?

I would shy away from any accessories that where not mechanical (larger charging handle, free floating handguards, etc.) or anything that required batteries. I really do subscribe to the Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS) theory and try to keep points of failure to a minimum.

Last edited by Mastiff; 11/21/15 06:30 PM.

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Re: Apocalsypse Guns .... [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1035109 11/22/15 12:34 AM
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Arsenal's SLR106 is a 5.56x45mm AK. I've used them in classes and can vouch for the model as long as you use gen 2 mags.

I personally don't subscribe to the "scrounged or traded for" gun parts or ammo idea. Who, in their right mind, would turn loose of ammo? The person who they trade it to could use it to take everything they have.

Ammo and parts are something you buy and store BEFORE something happens.

The dependence on optics is a concerning trend. Optics are force multipliers and have their place, but bombproof back up iron sights (read: NO PLASTIC SIGHTS) are critical.





JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





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